Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

[Scott5114]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

[US 89]

Apparently there was an 18-mile backup later in the day.

I drove from Vegas to LA (Sherman Oaks) on Sunday evening.  I left Vegas at 6:30.  It was awful.  Got into Sherman Oaks at 1:00 AM - there were numerous multi-mile backups between Primm and Barstow.

The road is really an abomination.  There's no excuse for it not being 3+ lanes from Primm to Barstow at this point.

No reason to ever do that when you can fly virtually on the hour every hour LAX-LAS or vice versa.

Any time gained by flying will be lost going in/out of LAX. Burbank, Ontario, John Wayne? No problem. Just don't use LAX if possible. Especially on a holiday weekend.

The thing though is those smaller airports generally only have straight flights to Vegas on ultra-low-cost-carriers like Frontier or Allegiant or Spirit. I don't particularly enjoy the nickel-and-diming they do and wouldn't trust them to not cancel my flight. Southwest appears to have a couple flights to some of the smaller LA-area airports, but other than that, if you want to avoid LAX and don't want to chance an ULCC, you're stuck changing planes in someplace like SFO or PHX or SLC which defeats the whole purpose.

[Max Rockatansky]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

[Plutonic Panda]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

Even if it takes longer it doesn't feel like it.

[Max Rockatansky]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

Even if it takes longer it doesn't feel like it.

Driving sitting/around in traffic like what you see on a weekend rush on I-15 is downright exhausting mentally.  I get it that a lot/most just rely on a GPS to tell them where to go but you'd think a lot of them would eventually learn it isn't getting better and look for other options. 

[Plutonic Panda]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

Even if it takes longer it doesn't feel like it.

Driving sitting/around in traffic like what you see on a weekend rush on I-15 is downright exhausting mentally.  I get it that a lot/most just rely on a GPS to tell them where to go but you'd think a lot of them would eventually learn it isn't getting better and look for other options.

That's precisely why Death Valley is such a great option for bypassing that bullshit.

[webny99]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

I'm curious what some of the specific concerns as to county routes are. I'm used to county routes being paved and maintained to high standards here in the Northeast, but I know that's not always the case elsewhere.

I also checked out some of the GSV on the non-state highways along Max's route, and correct me if I'm wrong but it looked to me like they were all paved and striped. Taking the US 395 to CA 190 option would leave State Line Rd as the only non-state highway portion.

Looks like some pretty remote territory, but nothing I wouldn't be comfortable with traveling.

[Max Rockatansky]

Seriously, why are some of you even bothering with I-15?  I live in Fresno and I haven't taken I-15 into the city since I did so deliberately to start this thread.  My usually route to Vegas from Mojave is:

[snipped]

The routing you quote would be a non-starter for me, since I generally have a policy of eschewing non-numbered routes for long-distance travel. I generally don't trust county governments to maintain roads to consistently acceptable standards, nor do I trust Google Maps to update GSV often enough to provide an accurate picture of conditions along them.

That's why I ever mentioned the full eastern CA 190 option.  Hyperbole aside that's a pretty well known highway east of the Sierras to travel fast on.  Adding an hour to your trip on paper IMO is better than sitting stopped in traffic for an hour elsewhere on a more popular route.

I'm curious what some of the specific concerns as to county routes are. I'm used to county routes being paved and maintained to high standards here in the Northeast, but I know that's not always the case elsewhere.

I also checked out some of the GSV on the non-state highways along Max's route, and correct me if I'm wrong but it looked to me like they were all paved and striped. Taking the US 395 to CA 190 option would leave State Line Rd as the only non-state highway portion.

Looks like some pretty remote territory, but nothing I wouldn't be comfortable with traveling.

The roads I cited are now pretty good, in the recent past some were not.  Trona-Wildrose Road in particular was one of the worst paved county roads I've driven the first time I used it.  Kern County generally maintains their inventory to an acceptable level, Inyo County is far more of a gamble.  Either way, none of what I cited is an issue during daylight hours.  The biggest concern I had was open range animal encounters like coyotes.

Interesting aside about Kern County, they maintain a list of major routes and sign them with postmiles like Caltrans does.  Most of those types of roads are located in the Sierra Nevada Mountains.

[skluth]

Apparently there was an 18-mile backup later in the day.

I drove from Vegas to LA (Sherman Oaks) on Sunday evening.  I left Vegas at 6:30.  It was awful.  Got into Sherman Oaks at 1:00 AM - there were numerous multi-mile backups between Primm and Barstow.

The road is really an abomination.  There's no excuse for it not being 3+ lanes from Primm to Barstow at this point.

No reason to ever do that when you can fly virtually on the hour every hour LAX-LAS or vice versa.

Any time gained by flying will be lost going in/out of LAX. Burbank, Ontario, John Wayne? No problem. Just don't use LAX if possible. Especially on a holiday weekend.

From Palm Springs you also have the luxury of US 95 being a viable detour coupled with stuff like Amboy Road or CA 62-CA 177.

I've never taken I-15 from Barstow to LV. It's far easier for me to go via Amboy and Kelso though Morning Star Mining Road isn't the greatest. Next time I'll probably try Amboy to Goffs to LV just for the variety. Amboy Road is great though I wouldn't want to break down on it given all the survivalist types east of Twentynine Palms and lack of cell service; don't relish the potential for a real-life desert version of Deliverance.

[michravera]

I'm average around 150MPH and I've gotten well over 200MPH on many stretches. Just go for it. It's fun.

Okay, gonna go try that in my 2008 Honda Fit, I'll let you know how it goes.

It works much better in a Muni!

[Scott5114]

I'm curious what some of the specific concerns as to county routes are. I'm used to county routes being paved and maintained to high standards here in the Northeast, but I know that's not always the case elsewhere.

Well, for one thing, counties don't always have "routes". No county in Oklahoma has numbered routes, for example. Without that structure in place, it is not really obvious whether any given county road is intended to be a major through route or merely a property-access road that dead-ends somewhere or loses its pavement halfway through. Names like "Trona-Wildrose" and "Morningstar Mining Rd" don't really do much to assuage this concern.

And the level of maintenance can vary greatly from county to county. I know all of my home county's roads are paved, but there are plenty of counties in my state where that is not true. County roads are also more likely than state roads to have issues like bridges being out for an extended period of time because there is simply not the funds to repair or replace them.

(Note this is all meant as a general explanation for my policy of avoiding county roads, and may not actually apply to the specific roads Max mentions.)

[ClassicHasClass]

My preference is coming up via US 95 to I-11/I-515. You can pick it up in Needles on I-40 or Blythe on I-10.

[skluth]

This week I went to Las Vegas and drove I-15 between Barstow and the California inspection stations for the first time in a few decades. (It's far easier to go between Palm Springs and Las Vegas on the Mojave back roads but I didn't want to risk it given all the recent rain.) I didn't think it was overly busy, but then again I drove up Wednesday and back Friday. I was surprised at how much was already three lanes each way thanks to the truck lanes which made it painfully obvious how much it needs to be widened the entire way as the only times I-15 felt clogged was when one truck s-l-o-w-l-y passed another blocking both lanes. And I was driving either at or slightly above (maybe 5 mph) the speed limit. It's pretty sad when traffic moves best up steep inclines.

[Plutonic Panda]

The flex shoulder on WB I-15 from the NV state line to the agricultural inspection station is now in use. It's operational from 8am to 10pm on Sunday and Monday. I haven't been through it during peak hours so I don't know how much it's helping.

When I went through the inspection station at 12am on Sunday night there wasn't even a single worker to wave you through. So if you want to transport illegal fruits and animals there's your time frame.


I mean seriously without evening adding a GP lane just getting rid of the checkpoint would do wonders. As soon as you pass that traffic picks back up to freeway speeds before it slows back down again during busy hours at the four lane sections.

More 3 lane sections need to be built.

Phase 1: The section between the southernmost segment of I-15 in California to Primm needs to be at least 3 lanes each way with full shoulders. Remove the agricultural checkpoint for automobiles but keep it on the side for commercial trucks with their own lanes from the NV state line.

Phase 2: Once phase 1 is completed widen the entire thing at once to ensure there is a minimum of 3 lanes each way from NV to Barstow.

Phase 3: ultimate phase. Widen the entire segment from Barstow to Primm to four lanes each way and ban semis from using the left two lanes. This allows for trucks to be able to use the right two lanes for passing un-obstructing vehicle traffic. This would be a longer term project but do this and I bet this plan works for generations.

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

After that's done work on the remaining segments all the way to Barstow at one time. Work day and night.

[RZF]

The flex shoulder on WB I-15 from the NV state line to the agricultural inspection station is now in use. It's operational from 8am to 10pm on Sunday and Monday. I haven't been through it during peak hours so I don't know how much it's helping.

When I went through the inspection station at 12am on Sunday night there wasn't even a single worker to wave you through. So if you want to transport illegal fruits and animals there's your time frame.


I mean seriously without evening adding a GP lane just getting rid of the checkpoint would do wonders. As soon as you pass that traffic picks back up to freeway speeds before it slows back down again during busy hours at the four lane sections.

More 3 lane sections need to be built.

Phase 1: The section between the southernmost segment of I-15 in California to Primm needs to be at least 3 lanes each way with full shoulders. Remove the agricultural checkpoint for automobiles but keep it on the side for commercial trucks with their own lanes from the NV state line.

Phase 2: Once phase 1 is completed widen the entire thing at once to ensure there is a minimum of 3 lanes each way from NV to Barstow.

Phase 3: ultimate phase. Widen the entire segment from Barstow to Primm to four lanes each way and ban semis from using the left two lanes. This allows for trucks to be able to use the right two lanes for passing un-obstructing vehicle traffic. This would be a longer term project but do this and I bet this plan works for generations.

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

After that's done work on the remaining segments all the way to Barstow at one time. Work day and night.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

[Plutonic Panda]

As I said, I'll be surprised if the train actually gets built.

[nexus73]

The flex shoulder on WB I-15 from the NV state line to the agricultural inspection station is now in use. It's operational from 8am to 10pm on Sunday and Monday. I haven't been through it during peak hours so I don't know how much it's helping.

When I went through the inspection station at 12am on Sunday night there wasn't even a single worker to wave you through. So if you want to transport illegal fruits and animals there's your time frame.


I mean seriously without evening adding a GP lane just getting rid of the checkpoint would do wonders. As soon as you pass that traffic picks back up to freeway speeds before it slows back down again during busy hours at the four lane sections.

More 3 lane sections need to be built.

Phase 1: The section between the southernmost segment of I-15 in California to Primm needs to be at least 3 lanes each way with full shoulders. Remove the agricultural checkpoint for automobiles but keep it on the side for commercial trucks with their own lanes from the NV state line.

Phase 2: Once phase 1 is completed widen the entire thing at once to ensure there is a minimum of 3 lanes each way from NV to Barstow.

Phase 3: ultimate phase. Widen the entire segment from Barstow to Primm to four lanes each way and ban semis from using the left two lanes. This allows for trucks to be able to use the right two lanes for passing un-obstructing vehicle traffic. This would be a longer term project but do this and I bet this plan works for generations.

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

After that's done work on the remaining segments all the way to Barstow at one time. Work day and night.

I really like you :-)

[Occidental Tourist]

Phase 3: ultimate phase. Widen the entire segment from Barstow to Primm to four lanes each way and ban semis from using the left two lanes.

State law already bans them from the left two lanes on a four lane freeway, notwithstanding the lack of enforcement the past several years. (PC 21655(b))

[pderocco]

As I said, I'll be surprised if the train actually gets built.

If it does, it will have to run on batteries.

[JREwing78]

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

But how long does it take to get to the airport, get through security, get on the plane, get off the ground, etc?

Brightline has shown it's able to execute with its Miami to Orlando service - and it's proven itself competitive with (and cheaper than) flying. Still TBD if they can profit with it - but a lot of folks were doubtful it would even see the light of day. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their ability to execute.

If they do execute the LA to LV train, Brightline will have the best sales pitch ever for their service - people stuck in traffic on I-15 watching the big yellow Brightline train whizzing past, wondering about their life choices leading them to that moment.

[jdbx]

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

But how long does it take to get to the airport, get through security, get on the plane, get off the ground, etc?

Brightline has shown it's able to execute with its Miami to Orlando service - and it's proven itself competitive with (and cheaper than) flying. Still TBD if they can profit with it - but a lot of folks were doubtful it would even see the light of day. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their ability to execute.

If they do execute the LA to LV train, Brightline will have the best sales pitch ever for their service - people stuck in traffic on I-15 watching the big yellow Brightline train whizzing past, wondering about their life choices leading them to that moment.

I think that the train probably *will* end up happening, but I think the fact that you still have to travel all the way out to Rancho Cucamonga to catch it is going to limit some of the potential ridership.  Driving 1-2 hours out to the Inland Empire to then catch a train can be a pretty tough sell for anybody living west of The 605...

[Plutonic Panda]

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

But how long does it take to get to the airport, get through security, get on the plane, get off the ground, etc?

Brightline has shown it's able to execute with its Miami to Orlando service - and it's proven itself competitive with (and cheaper than) flying. Still TBD if they can profit with it - but a lot of folks were doubtful it would even see the light of day. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their ability to execute.

If they do execute the LA to LV train, Brightline will have the best sales pitch ever for their service - people stuck in traffic on I-15 watching the big yellow Brightline train whizzing past, wondering about their life choices leading them to that moment.

I think that the train probably *will* end up happening, but I think the fact that you still have to travel all the way out to Rancho Cucamonga to catch it is going to limit some of the potential ridership.  Driving 1-2 hours out to the Inland Empire to then catch a train can be a pretty tough sell for anybody living west of The 605...

You'll also be able to take Metrolink to the Rancho Cucamonga station and I'm sure eventually this train will be extended to Los Angeles Union Station.

[Plutonic Panda]

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

But how long does it take to get to the airport, get through security, get on the plane, get off the ground, etc?

Brightline has shown it's able to execute with its Miami to Orlando service - and it's proven itself competitive with (and cheaper than) flying. Still TBD if they can profit with it - but a lot of folks were doubtful it would even see the light of day. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their ability to execute.

If they do execute the LA to LV train, Brightline will have the best sales pitch ever for their service - people stuck in traffic on I-15 watching the big yellow Brightline train whizzing past, wondering about their life choices leading them to that moment.

Sure if the State does that and doesn't improving the 15 and make commuter suffer. That'll just be another fucking bullshit ploy from the state trying to make transit seems better than it really is by making car traffic artificially worse.

But in reality, a lot of the time this freeway flows fairly well, so I doubt it will really impact drivers decisions all that much. I don't foresee this train being successful as some Claim it'll be even if drivers watch it flyby at 200 miles an hour.

[mgk920]

As for the train I don't even know where it'd fit in. I'm skeptical it even happens but I'll be pleasantly surprised. We just keep hearing it'll break ground next year for years now.

I don't even see how the train will see a decent ROI. Currently the best alternative to driving from the LA area to Vegas is very cheap and somewhat convenient - a $30-$50 45-minute flight. Round trip, that's cheaper than what you'd pay in gas driving up there.

But how long does it take to get to the airport, get through security, get on the plane, get off the ground, etc?

Brightline has shown it's able to execute with its Miami to Orlando service - and it's proven itself competitive with (and cheaper than) flying. Still TBD if they can profit with it - but a lot of folks were doubtful it would even see the light of day. So I'll give them the benefit of the doubt about their ability to execute.

If they do execute the LA to LV train, Brightline will have the best sales pitch ever for their service - people stuck in traffic on I-15 watching the big yellow Brightline train whizzing past, wondering about their life choices leading them to that moment.

I think that the train probably *will* end up happening, but I think the fact that you still have to travel all the way out to Rancho Cucamonga to catch it is going to limit some of the potential ridership.  Driving 1-2 hours out to the Inland Empire to then catch a train can be a pretty tough sell for anybody living west of The 605...

You'll also be able to take Metrolink to the Rancho Cucamonga station and I'm sure eventually this train will be extended to Los Angeles Union Station.

Long term, there is a proposal to extend the Brightline route westward from Barstow to the proposed CAHSR line at Lancaster and then through their proposed tunnels in the Soledad canyon/CA 14 corridor to Los Angeles Union Station.  We'll see where that goes.

Mike

[cl94]

You'd need to widen 15 north of Devore for a widening to have any real impact. Why? Because you'd simply be moving the chokepoint otherwise. 170 miles of widening solely to improve the experience for through traffic is both a hard political sell, especially given how the CTC is increasingly opposed to widening projects.

Vegas to the Inland Empire is the perfect demonstration case for high-speed rail. 200 miles, relatively easy terrain, not much development along the path. And even better, the Vegas end will be right next to the Strip. Most people going to Vegas are just leaving their cars garaged the entire time, so why not garage them 200 miles away?