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Future Mississippi River bridge in Baton Rouge

Started by jbnv, March 28, 2022, 04:39:28 PM

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jbnv

Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 28, 2022, 09:18:12 PM
A freeway upgrade of LA 1/LA 3089/LA 70 (with bypasses of Plaquemine, Donaldsonville, Addis, and White Castle) might not be so feasible because of the proximity of the Union Pacific Railroad line along LA 1, bringing the freeway through Port Allen proper, and upgrading the capacity of the LA 1/I-10 interchange with connections to the PoWBR.

I don't see that route ever becoming a full freeway. At best it will get the US 90 treatment of gradual replacement of intersections with controlled interchanges.

Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 28, 2022, 09:18:12 PM
Also, the Sunshine Bridge would be a bit too far south to be useful as a BTR bypass.

Not by itself and not for all traffic bound for points southeast. There's already a "poor man's bypass" along the river with LA 3089, LA 70, LA 3127, LA 3125, US 61 and I-310. If we add capacity and limit some of the access, the existing footprint could serve as a viable alternative for some (definitely not all) of the traffic in the area that currently uses I-10. I'd rather focus our efforts on improving the existing network than dumping a bunch of money into one bridge that will do little to solve the real problem.

Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 28, 2022, 09:18:12 PM
The best location for an I-10 bypass bridge would be just south of Addis to near where Bluebonnet Road meets Gardere Lane (LA 30), then generally paralleling Bluebonnet just to the south of Burbank Lane.

It's clearly the best location and made it to the semifinalist round, but has been eliminated from consideration.

Quote from: Anthony_JK on May 28, 2022, 09:18:12 PM
Either that, or I-49 South between Lafayette and New Orleans becomes the "real" BTR bypass.

Along with the poor-man's bypasses, yes.
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bwana39

Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Plutonic Panda

Update on this project estimated at $3 billion:

QuoteWith statewide elections on the horizon in Louisiana this year, some Baton Rouge-area officials working to bring a new Mississippi River bridge to the region are worried leadership changes could derail construction before it even starts.

"We should be very cognizant of the election cycle," John Diez, Ascension Parish chief administrative officer, said during a June 26 meeting of the Capitol Area Road and Bridge District (CARB-D). "You'll have a lot of people not from Baton Rouge who, quite honestly, don't understand what this corridor means to our economy. Now is the time to educate them on why this is important."

The district, a commission made up of officials from the five parishes most affected by the project, held its quarterly meeting to discuss hiring a consultant tasked with creating informational material on the project's benefits for those running for elected office this fall.
The Advocate news site in Baton Rouge reported the project is currently in the middle of an environmental review of the three sites that are in the running for the bridge. Each of them is in Iberville Parish, just south of Plaquemine on the west side and St. Gabriel on the east.

During their March meeting, CARB-D members said they hoped to pick the final site by spring 2024. That estimate was delayed June 26 by contractors hired to manage the project by the Louisiana Department of Transportation and Development (DOTD), who said a decision will be finalized by the following August.

Read more here: https://www.constructionequipmentguide.com/plans-advance-for-baton-rouge-area-mississippi-river-bridge-but-need-support/61599


The Ghostbuster

What's the likelihood that the bridge will be built? At $3 billion, it seems like another bridge in the Baton Rouge may be unaffordable. A shame really, it was a noble proposal.

Strider

Not from the area or Louisiana, but why is the new bridge proposal out of the way? Is there a plan for a southern bypass?

CoreySamson

Quote from: Strider on June 30, 2023, 07:25:31 PM
Not from the area or Louisiana, but why is the new bridge proposal out of the way? Is there a plan for a southern bypass?
There is no southern bypass currently planned IIRC. LA 1 and LA 30 will end up providing a pseudo bypass, but I can't see it being effective for long-range traffic. They had some proposals north of Plaquemine, but I believe that they were rejected because of potential river navigation problems and because the residents on the south side of Baton Rouge don't want a massive bridge and approach running through their backyard.

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MaxConcrete

#56
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on June 30, 2023, 07:24:05 PM
What's the likelihood that the bridge will be built? At $3 billion, it seems like another bridge in the Baton Rouge may be unaffordable. A shame really, it was a noble proposal.

$3 billion seems excessively high, even with recent inflation. A report in the New Orleans newspaper says "possibly $3 billion project", so it's not clear to me if that is an official estimate. The Baton Rouge chamber of commerce site says "DOTD projects the new bridge's construction costs to total around $1.5 billion." But of course that is unofficial and could be outdated.

The Sam Houston Tollway Bridge, with 8 lanes, full shoulders and 175-foot-clearance, sustained a massive cost overrun (more than $300 million) due to changing the design after construction started. The HCTRA web site lists the cost at $962 million, and a recent news report (probably more accurate) reports the cost is $1.3 billion.

The Corpus Christi Harbor bridge price was locked in years ago before recent inflation, and the web site lists the cost at $803 million. It will be the longest cable-stay bridge in the United States with a 205-foot vertical clearance. The project includes a new interchange at I-37 and "The project will include the development, design, construction, and maintenance of a total of 6.44 miles of bridge and connecting roadway."

I would have guessed that the Baton Rouge bridge will cost between $1 and $1.5 billion. $3 billion could be a non-starter.

As CoreySampson mentioned, the bridge is not going to be suitable as a bypass for Baton Rouge because of the poor connections on LA 1 and LA 30.

If extreme infrastructure inflation continues, it's going to become increasingly difficult or impossible to build anything substantial. Even Texas, with its vastly larger financial resources than Louisiana, is feeling the pain of around 50% inflation in highway construction costs in the last two years.
www.DFWFreeways.com
www.HoustonFreeways.com

bwana39

3 billion for the bridge, and freeway connections back to I-10 on both sides would not be unreasonable.

The discussion seems to flip and flop from full freeway to a regional feeder that Might eventually have freeway access (but it actually this eventual freeway access doesn"t seem feasable).  One strange discussion would make the bridge primarily for access to Baton Rouge from the growing West Bank along LA-1. Literally to feed MORE traffic onto I-10.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Anthony_JK

Quote from: bwana39 on July 01, 2023, 06:26:33 AM
3 billion for the bridge, and freeway connections back to I-10 on both sides would not be unreasonable.

The discussion seems to flip and flop from full freeway to a regional feeder that Might eventually have freeway access (but it actually this eventual freeway access doesn"t seem feasable).  One strange discussion would make the bridge primarily for access to Baton Rouge from the growing West Bank along LA-1. Literally to feed MORE traffic onto I-10.

That latter discussion seems kind of off, because the proposed location for the bridge is waaay too far south for traffic from Plaquemine and Addis and points northward to effectively access Baton Rouge, unless they plan on widening LA 30/Nicholson Drive through LSU. All of that traffic will simply trudge through on LA 1 up to Port Allen and then use an already crowded I-10 bridge.

They absolutely have to build it freeway grade from the beginning and complete it as a south bypass of I-10, because anything less will be insufficient for relieving traffic on I-10 even after it's widened in BTR.

If they can't do that, then upgrade LA 1 with bypasses of Plaquemine and Donaldsonville south from I-10 to the Sunshine Bridge, make a freeway connection from there back to I-10 south of Sorrento/Gonzales, build the North Bypass segment of the Baton Rouge Toll Loop with an upgrade of Airline Highway, and finish I-49 South through Lafayette to NOLA (or, at least, I-310 in Luling).

bwana39

This is the a synopsis of why and how the selection of location was made.  It CLEARLY leans toward the LOCAL TRAFFIC.

https://www.wrkf.org/news/2022-09-27/who-would-a-new-baton-rouge-bridge-benefit-most-local-commuters-or-cross-country-trucks

I am not sure I agree with it, but that is what the consultant says.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

bwana39

Quote from: bwana39 on July 01, 2023, 04:31:37 PM
This is the a synopsis of why and how the selection of location was made.  It CLEARLY leans toward the LOCAL TRAFFIC.

https://www.wrkf.org/news/2022-09-27/who-would-a-new-baton-rouge-bridge-benefit-most-local-commuters-or-cross-country-trucks

I am not sure I agree with it, but that is what the consultant says.

I think the problem MAY be that they look at the traffic mix as simply 18-wheelers and not 18-wheelers.  Are they looking at the all of the light vehicles crossing the Mississippi at I-10 and defining them as LOCAL?  (or perhaps a ratio that may or may not be accurate.) I think a better way to judge this would be taking the total traffic across the Atchafalaya on I-10 (EB) and subtract the traffic going SB on LA-1. THis should approximate the through I-10 traffic.  I wish I had Bridgehunter to get easy figures. I could do it in the NBI, but ......
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

rlb2024

I'm not crazy about the selected locations, but I can kinda see their reasoning.  There is a lot of industry on both sides of the river, especially near Plaquemine on the west bank and St. Gabriel on the east bank (I used to visit one of the facilities just north of Plaquemine several times a year).  Workers for those plants live on both sides of the river, so hopefully the thought process is that taking some of that traffic (and some of the support vehicles for the plants) off the I-10 bridge will help.  The bypass from LA 415 to LA 1 will also help offload some of the traffic on eastbound I-10 that has to go to the bridge approach before turning off onto LA 1.

The Road Warrior

I'm sorry, but at this point, I would rather the project die than them continuing to waste time on this. What Baton Rouge actually needs, like legitimately needs RIGHT NOW, is a southern bypass route for I-10 traffic going towards New Orleans. A full freeway bypass. But this isn't it. The best place to put a bridge would have been between Brusly and Addis. There is nothing on the Baton Rouge side of the river at that location. Its just vacant land, and the freeway would easily squeeze its way between Gardere and the casino and meet I-10 south or north of Gonzalez.

These current plans do nothing to actually fix the real traffic issues that the region is facing and would be a waste of money. There are already bridges between  Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Any one trying to cross the river south of Plaquemines can take the Sunshine Bridge, the Gramercy Bridge, or the 310 Bridge. If they must build another, it should be a separate project in addition to a southern Baton Rouge Bypass route. If one bridge must be built at the expense of the other, the BR Bypass should take top priority. To me, this purely Louisiana's idiotic state politics getting in the way of an actual useful idea just to appease a few loudmouth people rather than the actual greater good of the community. The same way suburban interests killed any chance of a BR loop.

bwana39

Quote from: The Road Warrior on September 09, 2023, 05:18:48 AM
I'm sorry, but at this point, I would rather the project die than them continuing to waste time on this. What Baton Rouge actually needs, like legitimately needs RIGHT NOW, is a southern bypass route for I-10 traffic going towards New Orleans. A full freeway bypass. But this isn't it. The best place to put a bridge would have been between Brusly and Addis. There is nothing on the Baton Rouge side of the river at that location. Its just vacant land, and the freeway would easily squeeze its way between Gardere and the casino and meet I-10 south or north of Gonzalez.

These current plans do nothing to actually fix the real traffic issues that the region is facing and would be a waste of money. There are already bridges between  Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Any one trying to cross the river south of Plaquemines can take the Sunshine Bridge, the Gramercy Bridge, or the 310 Bridge. If they must build another, it should be a separate project in addition to a southern Baton Rouge Bypass route. If one bridge must be built at the expense of the other, the BR Bypass should take top priority. To me, this purely Louisiana's idiotic state politics getting in the way of an actual useful idea just to appease a few loudmouth people rather than the actual greater good of the community. The same way suburban interests killed any chance of a BR loop.

The proposals seem to be oriented around local Baton Rouge traffic and little to nothing to do with cross country traffic. IE integrating the south side of the river with Baton Rouge itself.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

rlb2024

Quote from: bwana39 on September 09, 2023, 01:26:07 PM
Quote from: The Road Warrior on September 09, 2023, 05:18:48 AM
I'm sorry, but at this point, I would rather the project die than them continuing to waste time on this. What Baton Rouge actually needs, like legitimately needs RIGHT NOW, is a southern bypass route for I-10 traffic going towards New Orleans. A full freeway bypass. But this isn't it. The best place to put a bridge would have been between Brusly and Addis. There is nothing on the Baton Rouge side of the river at that location. Its just vacant land, and the freeway would easily squeeze its way between Gardere and the casino and meet I-10 south or north of Gonzalez.

These current plans do nothing to actually fix the real traffic issues that the region is facing and would be a waste of money. There are already bridges between  Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Any one trying to cross the river south of Plaquemines can take the Sunshine Bridge, the Gramercy Bridge, or the 310 Bridge. If they must build another, it should be a separate project in addition to a southern Baton Rouge Bypass route. If one bridge must be built at the expense of the other, the BR Bypass should take top priority. To me, this purely Louisiana's idiotic state politics getting in the way of an actual useful idea just to appease a few loudmouth people rather than the actual greater good of the community. The same way suburban interests killed any chance of a BR loop.

The proposals seem to be oriented around local Baton Rouge traffic and little to nothing to do with cross country traffic. IE integrating the south side of the river with Baton Rouge itself.
Also, my experience is that most of the through traffic going through Baton Rouge on I-10 is actually destined for I-12 rather than staying on I-10 and headed to New Orleans (at the 10-12 split 3 lanes go to I-12 and only 2 to I-10).

Plutonic Panda

The I-10 bridge near downtown Baton Rouge will need to be replaced and hopefully widened to 4 lanes each way with shoulders. Perhaps once this proposed bridge is fixed traffic can be detoured to that one.

rlb2024

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
The I-10 bridge near downtown Baton Rouge will need to be replaced and hopefully widened to 4 lanes each way with shoulders. Perhaps once this proposed bridge is fixed traffic can be detoured to that one.
I'm not aware of any discussion on replacing the I-10 bridge in downtown BR at any point in the foreseeable future.  That will be a multi-billion dollar undertaking, considering how the approach roads tie in to the bridge on both sides of the river.

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: rlb2024 on September 09, 2023, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
The I-10 bridge near downtown Baton Rouge will need to be replaced and hopefully widened to 4 lanes each way with shoulders. Perhaps once this proposed bridge is fixed traffic can be detoured to that one.
I'm not aware of any discussion on replacing the I-10 bridge in downtown BR at any point in the foreseeable future.  That will be a multi-billion dollar undertaking, considering how the approach roads tie in to the bridge on both sides of the river.
Oh absolutely it will be a ways away before that conversation begins. At least when it does a detour via a new bridge can be an option.

rlb2024

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2023, 05:26:55 PM
Quote from: rlb2024 on September 09, 2023, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on September 09, 2023, 04:19:30 PM
The I-10 bridge near downtown Baton Rouge will need to be replaced and hopefully widened to 4 lanes each way with shoulders. Perhaps once this proposed bridge is fixed traffic can be detoured to that one.
I'm not aware of any discussion on replacing the I-10 bridge in downtown BR at any point in the foreseeable future.  That will be a multi-billion dollar undertaking, considering how the approach roads tie in to the bridge on both sides of the river.
Oh absolutely it will be a ways away before that conversation begins. At least when it does a detour via a new bridge can be an option.
I would think a more likely scenario in BR is that a parallel, second bridge would eventually be built and each bridge would become single-direction, similar to what was done with the Crescent City Connection in downtown New Orleans.  (Hard to believe it's been almost 40 years since the second bridge opened there . . .)

Anthony_JK

Quote from: The Road Warrior on September 09, 2023, 05:18:48 AM
I'm sorry, but at this point, I would rather the project die than them continuing to waste time on this. What Baton Rouge actually needs, like legitimately needs RIGHT NOW, is a southern bypass route for I-10 traffic going towards New Orleans. A full freeway bypass. But this isn't it. The best place to put a bridge would have been between Brusly and Addis. There is nothing on the Baton Rouge side of the river at that location. Its just vacant land, and the freeway would easily squeeze its way between Gardere and the casino and meet I-10 south or north of Gonzalez.

These current plans do nothing to actually fix the real traffic issues that the region is facing and would be a waste of money. There are already bridges between  Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Any one trying to cross the river south of Plaquemines can take the Sunshine Bridge, the Gramercy Bridge, or the 310 Bridge. If they must build another, it should be a separate project in addition to a southern Baton Rouge Bypass route. If one bridge must be built at the expense of the other, the BR Bypass should take top priority. To me, this purely Louisiana's idiotic state politics getting in the way of an actual useful idea just to appease a few loudmouth people rather than the actual greater good of the community. The same way suburban interests killed any chance of a BR loop.

If that is the case, then focus on completing I-49 South through Lafayette to NOLA.

Though, I agree that a freeway-grade south bypass needs to be the way to go.

Twinning the I-10 bridge across the Mississippi River is a non-starter, because of the severe disruption that would cause with both the LA 1 interchange on the west approach and the connection to the I-10/I-110 Split, which could potentially involve displacements in sensitive parks and historical districts on the east approach.

Best approach is a combination of a south freeway bypass and a connection north to an upgraded Airline Highway from just west of LA 415 to I-12.

Bobby5280

Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.

rlb2024

Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 11:46:54 PM
Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.
It already is.  It is signed as an emergency I-10 bypass route -- at least coming from the west into BR.  (When we come back from Shreveport we usually go that way anyway, since the I-10 bridge is a cluster-flop 70 percent of the time . . .)

bwana39

#72
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 11:46:54 PM
Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.

I don't think replacing the I-10 bridge is a great rush. BUT  A failure like in Memphis would be far more significant than the failure at Memphis was. The thing is Expanding I-10 is not the answer. If you understand traffic, neither is a southern loop.

The best answer is a new northern bypass. A loop through Port Allen and ( a new bridge to)cross the River to meet the intersection of I-110 and US-61 in Scotlandville. The real question is how to get the freeway to I-12 without making the extra mileage break the bank both in construction costs AND road miles. 

I-12 is the through route. I-10 is a loop through New Orleans. If freeways made sense and politics had nothing to do with it, I-10 from Baton Rouge to New Orleans (or Maybe just LaPlace) should be I-(x)10 and I-12 should be I-10.

Do you really want to add traffic to the I-10 /I-12 split with a new feeder bridge?

If there was a wish list, there are two  freeways Baton Rouge would want. A new route from New Roads to Alexandria. (As well as freeway along US-61 to meet LA-10 south of St Francisville.) The Second would be an upgrade of US-61 to Natchez and a freeway to Delhi / Monroe (and perhaps Little Rock & places north.)  The US-61 to US-425 one would be the preferable one, BUT there are around 50 miles in Mississippi and they aren't likely to want to play.  Either of these would  serve as hurricane evacuation routes. While Baton Rouge is far enough inland to miss the brunt for hurricanes, it is not a good stopping point for evacuees. Getting them further north is still important.

Quote from: rlb2024 on September 12, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 11:46:54 PM
Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.
It already is.  It is signed as an emergency I-10 bypass route -- at least coming from the west into BR.  (When we come back from Shreveport we usually go that way anyway, since the I-10 bridge is a cluster-flop 70 percent of the time . . .)

Right now, Google maps sends you from I-49 at Opelousas along US-190 to get to the capitol (which is just off of I-10) (64 miles 1 hr 7 mins) versus I-10 at 75.78 miles and 1 hour & 12 minutes. My experience says I-10 never runs above the speed limit and US-190 rarely averages as slow as the speed limit, so the time should be a little bit less on US-190.

On the other hand, if I were pulling a trailer (including a TT combo) I would not use 190.


Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Hot Rod Hootenanny

#73
Quote from: bwana39 on September 12, 2023, 05:11:10 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 11:46:54 PM
Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.

I don't think replacing the I-10 bridge is a great rush. BUT  A failure like in Memphis would be far more significant than the failure at Memphis was. The thing is Expanding I-10 is not the answer. If you understand traffic, neither is a southern loop.

The best answer is a new northern bypass. A loop through Port Allen and ( a new bridge to)cross the River to meet the intersection of I-110 and US-61 in Scotlandville. The real question is how to get the freeway to I-12 without making the extra mileage break the bank both in construction costs AND road miles. 

I-12 is the through route. I-10 is a loop through New Orleans. If freeways made sense and politics had nothing to do with it, I-10 from Baton Rouge to New Orleans (or Maybe just LaPlace) should be I-(x)10 and I-12 should be I-10.

Do you really want to add traffic to the I-10 /I-12 split with a new feeder bridge?

If there was a wish list, there are two  freeways Baton Rouge would want. A new route from New Roads to Alexandria. (As well as freeway along US-61 to meet LA-10 south of St Francisville.) The Second would be an upgrade of US-61 to Natchez and a freeway to Delhi / Monroe (and perhaps Little Rock & places north.)  The US-61 to US-425 one would be the preferable one, BUT there are around 50 miles in Mississippi and they aren't likely to want to play.  Either of these would  serve as hurricane evacuation routes. While Baton Rouge is far enough inland to miss the brunt for hurricanes, it is not a good stopping point for evacuees. Getting them further north is still important.

Quote from: rlb2024 on September 12, 2023, 04:55:43 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on September 11, 2023, 11:46:54 PM
Obviously they need to do a South bypass of Baton Rouge to provide I-10 a relief route for when they finally do something about that old bridge. Of course I can just predict some of the penny pincher style politicians floating an idea of making motorists use I-110 and the old Huey P Long bridge as a substitute in the event the existing I-10 bridge becomes not usable.
It already is.  It is signed as an emergency I-10 bypass route -- at least coming from the west into BR.  (When we come back from Shreveport we usually go that way anyway, since the I-10 bridge is a cluster-flop 70 percent of the time . . .)

Right now, Google maps sends you from I-49 at Opelousas along US-190 to get to the capitol (which is just off of I-10) (64 miles 1 hr 7 mins) versus I-10 at 75.78 miles and 1 hour & 12 minutes. My experience says I-10 never runs above the speed limit and US-190 rarely averages as slow as the speed limit, so the time should be a little bit less on US-190.

On the other hand, if I were pulling a trailer (including a TT combo) I would not use 190.


Sure (from 2004)
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

bwana39

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on September 13, 2023, 11:14:17 PM


Sure (from 2004)


This would have been a good start.   Ironically, it has I-12 LABELED as I-10.

It reused the US-190 bridge too. .  It even was a good fit to a new bridge around Southern University. EVENTUALLY.

Like you said this was 2 decades ago. It probably has less traction now than it did then. The population of METRO Baton Rouge has ballooned. Baton Rouge proper has slightly shrunk in population. Much of the growth is across the Mississippi River IE: South and west.
North Baton Rouge (city) is  almost solely a minority area. Two different problems present there. The local interests may not want a freeway and the racists may not want to spend money there.

I said it was needed, I certainly didn't say it would be built or even significantly supported.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.



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