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Confusion in NY

Started by TMETSJETSYT, July 06, 2022, 11:09:47 AM

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TMETSJETSYT

So for a while now, I have been confused with the road choices in the Corning-Elmira area of NY. First, you have NY 15 and US 15 which used to be the same route, but for some reason, past Corning, (The terminus of I-99) US 15 turns into NY 15 from Corning to it's northern terminus in Downtown Rochester. If anyone could answer why this is why it is, please message me. Also, why is I-390 still numbered as I-390 if its supposed to be numbered as I-99? If its up to Interstate standerd then why don't they just renumber it? If anyone can answer these questions, please let me know.
Roads I have clinched- I-84 (MA-CT-NY-PA), I-78 (NY-NJ-PA), I-395 (DC-VA), I-695 (Both DC and NY), I-490 (NY), I 390 (NY), I-787 (NY), I-287 (NY-NJ), I-795 (NC), I-140 (NC), I-295 (Both VA and MD), I-270 (MD), And I am only 13 so I have much more to clinch.


astralentity

Probably should be in the overall NY thread, but I heard that NY was rather anti US highways at one time, hence why there's not so many.

Rothman

I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Henry

Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be. However, I agree with the above statement because none of the roads on I-99's current alignment are supposed to carry that number. If anything, it should be I-83, so maybe the idea will be revisited when the Harrisburg-Williamsport link (including the CSVT) is completely filled in.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Rothman

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

74/171FAN

Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be. However, I agree with the above statement because none of the roads on I-99's current alignment are supposed to carry that number. If anything, it should be I-83, so maybe the idea will be revisited when the Harrisburg-Williamsport link (including the CSVT) is completely filled in.

You won't be seeing upgrades to US 22/US 322 in Duncannon or on US 11/US 15 north of there to the CSVT either.
I am now a PennDOT employee.  My opinions/views do not necessarily reflect the opinions/views of PennDOT.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 01:08:27 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be.

It won't be.

There's no reason why it shouldn't be, even if it's never been officially proposed.

webny99

Quote from: 74/171FAN on July 06, 2022, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
However, I agree with the above statement because none of the roads on I-99's current alignment are supposed to carry that number. If anything, it should be I-83, so maybe the idea will be revisited when the Harrisburg-Williamsport link (including the CSVT) is completely filled in.

You won't be seeing upgrades to US 22/US 322 in Duncannon or on US 11/US 15 north of there to the CSVT either.

At least not for the foreseeable future. I'd like to see I-83 to Rochester as much as anyone, but acknowledge that it's fictional at this point. I'm just happy there will be a stoplight-free routing to Harrisburg (and Baltimore) once CSVT is complete. The non-freeway portion of US 11/15 is still a pretty nice road by most standards even if it's not full freeway.

Declan127

Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 01:08:27 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be.

It won't be.

There's no reason why it shouldn't be, even if it's never been officially proposed.

Apparently it was proposed back in 2002, but not officially. Personally I don't see the point of extending 99 past 86 anyway, as it would require a useless multiplex with 86 and 99 turns NE as it ends; seems better to just keep the end at 86.
Imma New Yoikah, fuggedaboudit!

Rothman

Quote from: Declan127 on July 06, 2022, 03:36:21 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 01:57:52 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 01:08:27 PM
Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be.

It won't be.

There's no reason why it shouldn't be, even if it's never been officially proposed.

Apparently it was proposed back in 2002, but not officially. Personally I don't see the point of extending 99 past 86 anyway, as it would require a useless multiplex with 86 and 99 turns NE as it ends; seems better to just keep the end at 86.
Ah, the mighty weight of an unofficial proposal.

I-390 will not be I-99.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

webny99

Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 04:02:43 PM
I-390 will not be I-99.

Who's to say it will never happen?

jeffandnicole


webny99

#12
Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 06, 2022, 04:25:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 04:12:20 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 04:02:43 PM
I-390 will not be I-99.

Who's to say it will never happen?

Fictional. Move on.

Rude. You weren't even part of this.

Mapmikey

Or...we could, you know, actually answer the question asked...

Quote from: TMETSJETSYT on July 06, 2022, 11:09:47 AM
So for a while now, I have been confused with the road choices in the Corning-Elmira area of NY. First, you have NY 15 and US 15 which used to be the same route, but for some reason, past Corning, (The terminus of I-99) US 15 turns into NY 15 from Corning to it's northern terminus in Downtown Rochester. If anyone could answer why this is why it is, please message me. Also, why is I-390 still numbered as I-390 if its supposed to be numbered as I-99? If its up to Interstate standerd then why don't they just renumber it? If anyone can answer these questions, please let me know.

The actual reason can be found in the AASHO database (for those unfamiliar, you must go here first before using the links below:
https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=3fc21256-50e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true (1971 attempt)
https://na4.visualvault.com/app/AASHTO/Default/documentviewer?DhID=36c21256-50e6-ea11-a98a-ff9beffbfef8&hidemenu=true (1974 attempt)

Of note is that the 1971 request would've truncated US 15 first to the NY 17/401 (now I-86/390) interchange then later to Painted Post.

Of interest in the 1974 request is the explicit intention to have the Southern Tier Expwy become I-92!  I don't know if this is news to everyone but first I'd seen of this...

webny99

#14
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 06, 2022, 04:40:44 PM
Or...we could, you know, actually answer the question asked...

You're right. I'm sorry for getting in my feelings.

And thanks for the insight. I had also never heard of I-92 being proposed for the Southern Tier. However, the links don't seem to be working for me. Is anyone else getting a 404 error message?


Mapmikey

You have to access the main aasho database page first - in my post it is the "˜here first' web link.

webny99

Quote from: Mapmikey on July 06, 2022, 06:32:44 PM
You have to access the main aasho database page first - in my post it is the "˜here first' web link.

Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant there but I found it now. Thanks!

abqtraveler

Quote from: Henry on July 06, 2022, 12:50:40 PM
Quote from: Rothman on July 06, 2022, 12:29:49 PM
I-390 is not supposed to be I-99.
But it still can be. However, I agree with the above statement because none of the roads on I-99's current alignment are supposed to carry that number. If anything, it should be I-83, so maybe the idea will be revisited when the Harrisburg-Williamsport link (including the CSVT) is completely filled in.
They would have to go back to Congress and have the stretch of I-99 north of Williamsport, PA designated as I-83. This was because I-99's designation was codified into law about 30 years ago, when Bud Shuster of Pennsylvania was Chairman of the House Transportation Committee. He wanted to make sure his district got an interstate route, and that's how I-99 came into being.
2-d Interstates traveled:  4, 5, 8, 10, 15, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29, 35, 39, 40, 41, 43, 45, 49, 55, 57, 64, 65, 66, 69, 70, 71, 72, 74, 75, 76(E), 77, 78, 81, 83, 84(W), 85, 87(N), 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95

2-d Interstates Clinched:  12, 22, 30, 37, 44, 59, 80, 84(E), 86(E), 238, H1, H2, H3, H201

The Ghostbuster

I believe Interstate 390 will keep its existing designation permanently. Interstate 83 will always terminate in Harrisburg, PA and Interstate 99 will likely always teminate in Painted Post, NY. Also, shouldn't NY 390 also be Interstate 390? I understand other 3dis continuing as state highways because they have non-freeway portions (NY 481, NY 787, NY 590) or they don't terminate at another Interstate (NY 690 and NY 890). Is NY 390 signed as a non-Interstate because it does not meet Interstate Standards?

sbeaver44

Also, if there are any remaining NY 15 signs on I-86/NY 17 between Corning and Wayland, they're not correct.  NY 15 signs were supposed to be removed in 2009, although I do remember some signs lingering. 

webny99

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 06, 2022, 07:41:11 PM
Also, shouldn't NY 390 also be Interstate 390? I understand other 3dis continuing as state highways because they have non-freeway portions (NY 481, NY 787, NY 590) or they don't terminate at another Interstate (NY 690 and NY 890). Is NY 390 signed as a non-Interstate because it does not meet Interstate Standards?

There's nothing that visibly doesn't meet interstate standards, but it terminates at the Parkway, which is not open to commercial vehicles. I stand to be corrected but I believe commercial vehicles cannot be banned from interstates, so the interstate designation could not extend past NY 18. Given that, I-490 is the most logical endpoint. It also mirrors I-590/NY 590 on the other side of the city.

Alps


Mapmikey

Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 08:17:50 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 06, 2022, 07:41:11 PM
Also, shouldn't NY 390 also be Interstate 390? I understand other 3dis continuing as state highways because they have non-freeway portions (NY 481, NY 787, NY 590) or they don't terminate at another Interstate (NY 690 and NY 890). Is NY 390 signed as a non-Interstate because it does not meet Interstate Standards?

There's nothing that visibly doesn't meet interstate standards, but it terminates at the Parkway, which is not open to commercial vehicles. I stand to be corrected but I believe commercial vehicles cannot be banned from interstates, so the interstate designation could not extend past NY 18. Given that, I-490 is the most logical endpoint. It also mirrors I-590/NY 590 on the other side of the city.

23 CFR 658.11(f) allows for banning of trucks/commercial traffic on interstate highways.

I-66 inside the DC Beltway has this prohibition per that regulation.

webny99

#23
Quote from: Mapmikey on July 06, 2022, 09:09:41 PM
Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 08:17:50 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on July 06, 2022, 07:41:11 PM
Also, shouldn't NY 390 also be Interstate 390? I understand other 3dis continuing as state highways because they have non-freeway portions (NY 481, NY 787, NY 590) or they don't terminate at another Interstate (NY 690 and NY 890). Is NY 390 signed as a non-Interstate because it does not meet Interstate Standards?

There's nothing that visibly doesn't meet interstate standards, but it terminates at the Parkway, which is not open to commercial vehicles. I stand to be corrected but I believe commercial vehicles cannot be banned from interstates, so the interstate designation could not extend past NY 18. Given that, I-490 is the most logical endpoint. It also mirrors I-590/NY 590 on the other side of the city.

23 CFR 658.11(f) allows for banning of trucks/commercial traffic on interstate highways.

I-66 inside the DC Beltway has this prohibition per that regulation.

Thanks for the correction. I can't explain NY 390 then, although I wouldn't be surprised if it's related to the Parkway terminus in some way. Are there any examples of an interstate ending at a parkway (or specifically any road with no commercial vehicles allowed)?

And another thought: how is the truck ban signed/enforced on I-66, and from what point? At a quick glance I didn't see any signage, unlike NY 390 at NY 18, where the ban on commercial vehicles is signed (and note the supplementary sign in the background too).

Mapmikey

Quote from: webny99 on July 06, 2022, 09:53:40 PM
And another thought: how is the truck ban signed/enforced on I-66, and from what point? At a quick glance I didn't see any signage, unlike NY 390 at NY 18, where the ban on commercial vehicles is signed (and note the supplementary sign in the background too).

From I-495 NB -
  https://goo.gl/maps/5EW4pYwUjeFUKEQu9
  https://goo.gl/maps/sBANPo4BzRP5Wq2U9
  https://goo.gl/maps/etAQAih4f44Ex1fA9

From I-495 SB -
  https://goo.gl/maps/NFR7vUqFKTHkm1zR9
  https://goo.gl/maps/spSXnDZ8mGbWH7cN9
  (this also covers VA 267's approach) - https://goo.gl/maps/zrRzdMQPsfGnQGNU6

From I-66 EB -
https://goo.gl/maps/2bjz896A3mARNab98

can't seem to find any others on 66 EB but huge construction might be the reason why.  This sole sign seems insufficient to me.

It is actually legal for trucks to use I-66 between VA 110 and US 29 immediately adjacent.  The ramp from VA 110 north has this sign:  https://goo.gl/maps/nmkJKNwU2ZmMcUL3A



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