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[sprjus4]

^ I’ve only driven that way once, but when I did, I opted for US-59. Despite being slightly longer, I preferred it because it is at least all 4 lanes. SH-315, on the other hand, has a large amount of 2 lane.

And US-59 despite being undivided 4 lane largely, was still 75 mph.

[bwana39]

(Nacogdoches to Carthage)

US-259 is mostly 70 mph. SH -315 is 65 and seventy. Mount Enterprise is smaller than any of the 3 towns US-59 goes through. Central Heights is getting bigger, but until the past couple of years it was negligible. 

On US-59, the rural parts are MOSTLY 75 mph, but you go through Garrison, Timpson, and in Tenaha, you actually turn to head north after you are mostly through town.

The only real issue on SH-315 is cars making left turns, especially in Clayton. They stop and get rear ended.

The real rural speed on SH-315 is about the same as on US-59. At real road speeds, the difference is even greater than at the speed limit.

I am not saying that it is for the better, I am just saying it is. The extra twenty minutes are a real difference to many.

[sprjus4]

^

US-59 is 4 minutes (5 miles) longer, not 20 minutes.

[J N Winkler]

After sampling the US 59 and US 259/SH 315 Nacogdoches-Carthage routings in StreetView, it seems to me that the former also has the advantage of a smaller percentage of poor-boy in its four-lane mileage.

[armadillo speedbump]

I have always taken 315 rather than the out of the way 59 through Tenaha.  315 is faster, even taking into account that at some point there were always trucks bogging things down until a passing opportunity.  According to Google Maps just now, 6 miles shorter and 7 minutes faster than 59.

But more importantly, I wanted nothing to do with the infamously and long time corrupt Tenaha police.  Google them, they have a long, sordid history of sometimes random, sometimes targeted abuse of the asset forfeiture laws, extortion, etc.  Both racial targeting and for other reasons, going back decades.  Supposedly ended with a court settlement, but I don't trust them.  To be clear, I'm very pro-police, but not the corrupt bad apples.  Will never spend a cent in that town. 

[bwana39]

1 hr 29 min (83.9 miles)
via US-59 N
1 hr 29 min without traffic via Tenaha and US-59 only from Nacogdoches to Marshall

1 hr 20 min (78.2 miles)
via TX-315 E and US-59 N
Fastest route now due to traffic conditions Via Mount Enterprise and Carthage from Nacogdoches to Marshall.

At the speed limit in perfect conditions, 9 minutes. Like I said, nobody drives the speed limit on 315. I feel pretty comfortable with close to 20 minutes less in real world conditions most of the time. Worst case if you get behind a dozen tractors is you would break even.

I might also add, the conditions through (particularly) Garrison and Tenaha are never ideal.  Tenaha is not the same as back around 2000, but the police there still rival Diboll back in the 80's. I would still avoid Tenaha if I were a minority or carrying cash.

Yes, there is no divided highway on US-259 and SH-315. There is two lane on parts of SH-315. 

[CoreySamson]

My favorite route to get from Nacogdoches to Carthage is US 259 to TX 315 (I usually head that way about once per year, so I'm experienced with this area). But if you're willing to expand your scope a bit, using US 259 to TX 43 to Loop 390 up to Marshall is a great alternate to this route (plus you get to skip the Marshall speed trap cameras!). However, the downside to both of these routes is that they are not entirely four-laned, as US 59 is between Nacogdoches and Marshall (as has already been mentioned). I've only gotten tripped up on the TX 315 route once, when they were working on building the interchange with Loop 149 and there was a massive bottleneck. Otherwise, no problems (and now that there's an interchange at Loop 149, that route is even more attractive).

[bwana39]

But if you're willing to expand your scope a bit, using US 259 to TX 43 to Loop 390 up to Marshall is a great alternate to this route (plus you get to skip the Marshall speed trap cameras!).

The red light cameras were outlawed all over Texas 3 years ago. https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/TN/htm/TN.707.htm
The ones in Marshall were done away with almost as soon as the law was rescinded. https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/list-of-texas-cities-stopping-red-light-camera-enforcement-including-austin/

Marshall was a terror with them though. My DIL got over $1K in tickets there. ALL AT THE SAME INTERSECTION. (She went to college there.) They settled for less. I am not sure how much , though.

Marshall is still not a fun place to drive through. Like you said, Loop 390 (West End Blvd) is far better than US-59 (East End Blvd)

[kphoger]

Also, red light cameras aren't speed trap cameras anyway.

[ethanhopkin14]

Uh oh Google Maps!!!

https://goo.gl/maps/eYhpPvY1e2fAWPeZ7

[dariusb]

Quick question: has the freeway been built completely through Lufkin or is there still a lot of construction going on?

[Thegeet]

Quick question: has the freeway been built completely through Lufkin or is there still a lot of construction going on?

The only construction going on is the Frontage rd near the Northern US 59/69 interchange. The rest needs construction which will occur in the future.

[bwana39]

Quick question: has the freeway been built completely through Lufkin or is there still a lot of construction going on?

The only construction going on is the Frontage rd near the Northern US 59/69 interchange. The rest needs construction which will occur in the future.

Answer. The Geet describes where the construction is accurately. It is messier than he seemed to imply though. The project is near the beginning of a 10 year project group.

[CoreySamson]

I just drove the I-69/I-69E route from Corpus Christi to Wharton and I don't have much to report. Work is proceeding at the northern I-37/US 77 interchange building a new bridge for I-37 over the SB US 77 ramp, but that I believe has been touched on. There is no mention of I-69E NB anywhere on I-37 NB, as opposed to SB, where I believe ethanhopkin14 noted I-37/I-69E concurrency signage; and it seems that the recently installed BGSs on I-37 NB have no space for I-69E shields, which has me thinking that TxDOT doesn't plan on extending I-69E north of I-37 for a while (probably because Odem and Refugio bypasses aren't coming anytime soon).

The only other construction of note was that the feeder in Victoria was being rebuilt (specifically a couple bridges over creeks). It appears that US 59 in Victoria was very recently resurfaced, however, I'm not sure if it's all the way to interstate grade yet. Nothing was being done on the south side of Wharton or in any of the towns between Wharton and Victoria. I did notice these strange US 59 mile markers in and around the Victoria area that were put up sometime between 2018 and 2021 per GSV. These would be the first enhanced mile markers I've seen in the entire state (SkyPesos would enjoy this), though I am extremely confused as to where the 641A MM is coming from.

[Thegeet]

Looks like TxDOT has pushed back the let date for the Riviera Bypass to 2026 on the Project Tracker.
http://apps3.txdot.gov/apps-cq/project_tracker/

[J N Winkler]

I did notice these strange US 59 mile markers in and around the Victoria area that were put up sometime between 2018 and 2021 per GSV. These would be the first enhanced mile markers I've seen in the entire state (SkyPesos would enjoy this), though I am extremely confused as to where the 641A MM is coming from.

My guess:  641 is the reference marker location (the nominal distance south of an east-west parallel that overlaps the top edge of the Texas Panhandle), and A designates realigned mileage.

Did the markers count down as you went north?

[CoreySamson]

I did notice these strange US 59 mile markers in and around the Victoria area that were put up sometime between 2018 and 2021 per GSV. These would be the first enhanced mile markers I've seen in the entire state (SkyPesos would enjoy this), though I am extremely confused as to where the 641A MM is coming from.

My guess:  641 is the reference marker location (the nominal distance south of an east-west parallel that overlaps the top edge of the Texas Panhandle), and A designates realigned mileage.

Did the markers count down as you went north?

Yes. It appears you may be right.

[bwana39]

(Nacogdoches to Carthage)

US-259 is mostly 70 mph. SH -315 is 65 and seventy. Mount Enterprise is smaller than any of the 3 towns US-59 goes through. Central Heights is getting bigger, but until the past couple of years it was negligible. 

On US-59, the rural parts are MOSTLY 75 mph, but you go through Garrison, Timpson, and in Tenaha, you actually turn to head north after you are mostly through town.

The only real issue on SH-315 is cars making left turns, especially in Clayton. They stop and get rear ended.

The real rural speed on SH-315 is about the same as on US-59. At real road speeds, the difference is even greater than at the speed limit.

I am not saying that it is for the better, I am just saying it is. The extra twenty minutes are a real difference to many.

There is money for widening SH315 in the Draft UTP. It isn't new to the plan, but it is still there.

The draft UTP became available today. This is TxDOT's project funding plan for the next 10 years.
https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/division/transportation-planning/utp.html

[sprjus4]

Why doesn’t TxDOT prioritize upgrading the segment (either SH-315 or US-59 or somewhere in between) between Nacogdoches and Carthage to either a four lane divided highway or limited access highway?

And then northeast towards Louisiana as well, that is only a 3 lane road (was previously 4 lane undivided but TxDOT restriped it to have passing lanes instead.

A mix of this, along with bypassing all the towns south of Nacogdoches to Houston, would create a viable consistent 70-75 mph expressway north of Houston to I-20, similar to US-59/US-77 between Houston to Corpus Christi.

It’s not a freeway for most of the length, but it’s a continuous free-flowing 75 mph divided highway the whole way with no traffic lights or towns (except Refugio and Odem).

In the future, upgrade rural segments between and as money allows, designate new portions to I-69. But IMO, rural segments should be last. Free flow and divided should be the immediate goal.

[bwana39]

Why doesn’t TxDOT prioritize upgrading the segment (either SH-315 or US-59 or somewhere in between) between Nacogdoches and Carthage to either a four lane divided highway or limited access highway?

And then northeast towards Louisiana as well, that is only a 3 lane road (was previously 4 lane undivided but TxDOT restriped it to have passing lanes instead.

A mix of this, along with bypassing all the towns south of Nacogdoches to Houston, would create a viable consistent 70-75 mph expressway north of Houston to I-20, similar to US-59/US-77 between Houston to Corpus Christi.

It’s not a freeway for most of the length, but it’s a continuous free-flowing 75 mph divided highway the whole way with no traffic lights or towns (except Refugio and Odem).

In the future, upgrade rural segments between and as money allows, designate new portions to I-69. But IMO, rural segments should be last. Free flow and divided should be the immediate goal.

I agree completely!

[MaxConcrete]

Observations from a July 4 weekend trip from Houston to South Texas

• US 59 (IH-69) reconstruction to 3x3 freeway in west Fort Bend County is substantially complete. (Freeway is wider east of Richmond.) All main lanes are open, but there's some final work such as on frontage roads.
• In Wharton County (next county southwest of Fort Bend), work is in the early phase from the county line to the Business 59 crossing north of Wharton
• No work in progress from north of Wharton to Victoria at Loop 463. However, a long section around El Campo has a new asphalt surface. (I did not drive US 59 on the south side of Victoria, I resumed on US 77 on the southwest side of Victoria)
• No construction in progress on US 77 until the short multiplex with IH-37 west of Corpus, which is probably around 25% complete.
• SH 44 main lanes are open from 1.5 miles east of IH-69E Robstown all the way to Corpus. The new main lanes is relatively recent, but may not be very recent. However, the 1.5 mile non-freeway section has a narrow right-of-way and will be more difficult to upgrade.
• Work is in progress on frontage roads south of Kingsville. However, only a short section is in progress. This appears to be contract http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/03033002.htm
• No other work in progress southward. Freeway standards start north of Raymondville. Of course, except for Rivieria (which is slated for a bypass), there's no immediate need for improvements on this this section.
• Going to the SpaceEx launch complex at Boca Chica, I noticed a new road just east of the security checkpoint. It is the South Port Connector Road, which appears to have opened very recently. It has two long bridge sections. https://www.portofbrownsville.com/about/key-projects/
• In Pharr, work on the interchange at IH-2 and IH-69C is well along, maybe 50% complete.
• The only work in progress on US 281 between Pharr and Alice is the Premont Bypass. Connections on both the north and south sides of Premont are around 50% complete.

[thisdj78]

• SH 44 main lanes are open from 1.5 miles east of IH-69E Robstown all the way to Corpus. The new main lanes is relatively recent, but may not be very recent. However, the 1.5 mile non-freeway section has a narrow right-of-way and will be more difficult to upgrade.

Quick note on this. I believe SH44 will curve slightly south from that point and meet up with 69E a little further down. Looks like they already have ROW for a future interchange:

[sprjus4]

^ That was the original plan, however I believe TxDOT is now looking at options to construct a bypass around Robstown entirely for SH-44, which might shift alignment this slightly south.

[Chris]

Observations from a July 4 weekend trip from Houston to South Texas

• US 59 (IH-69) reconstruction to 3x3 freeway in west Fort Bend County is substantially complete. (Freeway is wider east of Richmond.) All main lanes are open, but there's some final work such as on frontage roads.

I'm looking at the timeline of the US 59 to I-69 upgrade in Fort Bend County. It seems like the upgrade from a four lane divided highway to a freeway was completed in 2019, but they immediately continued work to expand it to six lanes between the Wharton county line and the original beginning of the freeway near Rosenberg?

[Bobby5280]

I-69 is completed in Rosenberg itself, but TX DOT probably should have built I-69 in a 4x4 lanes configuration there rather than 3x3. In-progress construction work on I-69 going Southwest of the Houston area currently runs down to Hungerford. The 3x3 lanes configuration drops to 2x2 in Kendleton. Overhead Google Earth imagery is dated 3/2022 and there is Street View imagery from May of this year.