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Author Topic: Georgia Ports, DOT to study possible replacement of Savannah’s Talmadge Bridge  (Read 4915 times)

edwaleni

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The Port of Savannah also has a higher rate of exports. In most large U.S. container ports, the number of empty outbound containers is 2 or 3 times greater than loaded ones (exports). In Savannah the number of empty outbound containers is similar to the number of loaded containers.

This means that the Port of Savannah has a relatively high added value to the U.S. economy.

A current event is the low water level at the Panama Canal (more specifically, Gatun Lake). This means that the capacity is more limited and makes it worthwhile to send freight from East Asia to the U.S. east coast via the Suez Canal or around the Cape of Good Hope.

The Panama Canal expansion is also already outdated as it can handle container ships up to 14,500 TEU. As you can see in the graph above, the size of container ships jumped significantly in the 2010s, so an increasing number and share of container ships cannot pass through the expanded Panama Canal. Savannah is one of the prime destinations for such ships once they can pass under the Talmadge Bridge.

One of Savannah's largest exports, actually isn't container based. Georgia is the largest exporter of "wood balls". They are pulp based balls that are fabbed in factories in SE Georgia and used to supplement coal fired power generation in Europe and other places. Due to the way the balls are formulated and "baked", they reduce sulphur emissions when mixed with boiler coal but provide a high amount of BTU's. It's not a 1 to 1 replacement for the BTU's of coal and a side effect of burning pulp is an increase in NOX, but the overall reduction in sulphur is huge.
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Rothman

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The Port of Savannah also has a higher rate of exports. In most large U.S. container ports, the number of empty outbound containers is 2 or 3 times greater than loaded ones (exports). In Savannah the number of empty outbound containers is similar to the number of loaded containers.

This means that the Port of Savannah has a relatively high added value to the U.S. economy.

A current event is the low water level at the Panama Canal (more specifically, Gatun Lake). This means that the capacity is more limited and makes it worthwhile to send freight from East Asia to the U.S. east coast via the Suez Canal or around the Cape of Good Hope.

The Panama Canal expansion is also already outdated as it can handle container ships up to 14,500 TEU. As you can see in the graph above, the size of container ships jumped significantly in the 2010s, so an increasing number and share of container ships cannot pass through the expanded Panama Canal. Savannah is one of the prime destinations for such ships once they can pass under the Talmadge Bridge.

One of Savannah's largest exports, actually isn't container based. Georgia is the largest exporter of "wood balls". They are pulp based balls that are fabbed in factories in SE Georgia and used to supplement coal fired power generation in Europe and other places. Due to the way the balls are formulated and "baked", they reduce sulphur emissions when mixed with boiler coal but provide a high amount of BTU's. It's not a 1 to 1 replacement for the BTU's of coal and a side effect of burning pulp is an increase in NOX, but the overall reduction in sulphur is huge.
So that's why the Deep South looks more and more like a wasteland.  The lumbering of those thin pines is taking its toll.
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Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Dirt Roads

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Interesting to me that Savannah is a busier port than Charleston.

At least a few reasons I can think of that this would be the case:

1) the coastline shape mentioned earlier that makes Savannah an inherently less hurricane-prone place.
2) Charleston is significantly further east. If the idea is to ship things to large inland cities, like say Atlanta, putting your port the farthest northwest it can go minimizes the amount of overland transport by truck or train.
3) Charleston's highway connectivity is not as good at least in terms of the interstate system. Savannah is right on I-95 to take you north-south or I-16 to take you west. Yeah Charleston has four lane US 17 but that doesn't sell like an interstate does. Plus it is notorious for beach tourist congestion in the summer.

By and large, Savannah was a much more important railroad port city than Charleston (even though Charleston was a historically larger port both by volume and cargo value).  Savannah was a mainline rail hub for both the Atlantic Coast Line and the Seaboard Air Line, plus the primary terminii for both the Central of Georgia (Southern) and the Savannah and Atlanta (also Southern).  On the other hand, Charleston was a mainline hub along the Atlantic Coast Line, and was a secondary terminus for the Charleston and Western Carolina Railway (ACL) with Port Royal being the main terminus.  Charleston was also a primary terminus for the Southern mainline to Spartanburg and Asheville; and also the much smaller South Carolina Rail Road (also Southern).

For the record, the Port of Savannah finally surpassed the Port of Charleston in 2013 (measured by cargo volume).
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freebrickproductions

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Interesting to me that Savannah is a busier port than Charleston.

At least a few reasons I can think of that this would be the case:

1) the coastline shape mentioned earlier that makes Savannah an inherently less hurricane-prone place.
2) Charleston is significantly further east. If the idea is to ship things to large inland cities, like say Atlanta, putting your port the farthest northwest it can go minimizes the amount of overland transport by truck or train.
3) Charleston's highway connectivity is not as good at least in terms of the interstate system. Savannah is right on I-95 to take you north-south or I-16 to take you west. Yeah Charleston has four lane US 17 but that doesn't sell like an interstate does. Plus it is notorious for beach tourist congestion in the summer.

By and large, Savannah was a much more important railroad port city than Charleston (even though Charleston was a historically larger port both by volume and cargo value).  Savannah was a mainline rail hub for both the Atlantic Coast Line and the Seaboard Air Line, plus the primary terminii for both the Central of Georgia (Southern) and the Savannah and Atlanta (also Southern).  On the other hand, Charleston was a mainline hub along the Atlantic Coast Line, and was a secondary terminus for the Charleston and Western Carolina Railway (ACL) with Port Royal being the main terminus.  Charleston was also a primary terminus for the Southern mainline to Spartanburg and Asheville; and also the much smaller South Carolina Rail Road (also Southern).

For the record, the Port of Savannah finally surpassed the Port of Charleston in 2013 (measured by cargo volume).

I know one of the reasons why the Southern (and the Frisco, IIRC) wanted to get the CofG was to have (greater) control over the freight traffic in and out of Savannah.

The Frisco and the CofG were looking rather likely to merge, and the Frisco had even bought a controlling share (IIRC) of the CofG's stock in the lead-up to the potential merger. However, they failed to notify the ICC of this until they went to seek permission to merge, which, as I understand it, pissed-off the ICC so bad they gave the merger to the Southern instead.
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civilengineeringnerd

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im sorry for pointing this out, becaus it does need to be said:
i understand the need for ports, but why can't we just manufacture locally? whatever happened to localized manufacture of goods?
the global market put themselves in such a hardship knowing full well a major global disaster was coming, and did that for the last 30 years.
and shipping from asia/china is gonna decrease over the coming years, because mexico is poised to be the next driver of global goods, and china is having economic problems as well.
so building such a bridge might not be good long term, and cross country interstate and rail projects might be the new norm. i suspect thats why many states like arkansas and tennessee is working on their interstates now.
the global economy is shifting, and the bridge might not be needed long term if the majority of goods made goes from china to mexico.
i imagine the only thing georgia is doing right now is making sure the port stays relevant in the long term, perhaps to ship stuff from asia and the middle east to savanna.
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bwana39

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im sorry for pointing this out, becaus it does need to be said:
i understand the need for ports, but why can't we just manufacture locally? whatever happened to localized manufacture of goods?
the global market put themselves in such a hardship knowing full well a major global disaster was coming, and did that for the last 30 years.
and shipping from asia/china is gonna decrease over the coming years, because mexico is poised to be the next driver of global goods, and china is having economic problems as well.
so building such a bridge might not be good long term, and cross country interstate and rail projects might be the new norm. i suspect thats why many states like arkansas and tennessee is working on their interstates now.
the global economy is shifting, and the bridge might not be needed long term if the majority of goods made goes from china to mexico.
i imagine the only thing georgia is doing right now is making sure the port stays relevant in the long term, perhaps to ship stuff from asia and the middle east to savanna.

The reason is simple. Offshore companies (some with extensive government subsidies, a few without) offered lower prices for goods even after shipping. After all of the US manufacturing capability closed up shop (some even sent their machines overseas), the prices crept up to the same or higher levels than the US produced goods had previously had been. ( a lot of the increase is in shipping cost) To fill the price point the internationally produced goods had initially filled were lower quality, less durable goods were produced. The Japanese are beat up because they cannot compete in the export business, at least Japanese customers have some loyalty to home built products.

By the way, the short-term solution is to raise the bridge using jacks and new bearings.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2024, 07:22:30 PM by bwana39 »
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Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

civilengineeringnerd

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im sorry for pointing this out, becaus it does need to be said:
i understand the need for ports, but why can't we just manufacture locally? whatever happened to localized manufacture of goods?
the global market put themselves in such a hardship knowing full well a major global disaster was coming, and did that for the last 30 years.
and shipping from asia/china is gonna decrease over the coming years, because mexico is poised to be the next driver of global goods, and china is having economic problems as well.
so building such a bridge might not be good long term, and cross country interstate and rail projects might be the new norm. i suspect thats why many states like arkansas and tennessee is working on their interstates now.
the global economy is shifting, and the bridge might not be needed long term if the majority of goods made goes from china to mexico.
i imagine the only thing georgia is doing right now is making sure the port stays relevant in the long term, perhaps to ship stuff from asia and the middle east to savanna.

The reason is simple. Offshore companies (some with extensive government subsidies, a few without) offered lower prices for goods even after shipping. After all of the US manufacturing capability closed up shop (some even sent their machines overseas), the prices crept up to the same or higher levels than the US produced goods had previously had been. ( a lot of the increase is in shipping cost) To fill the price point the internationally produced goods had initially filled were lower quality, less durable goods were produced. The Japanese are beat up because they cannot compete in the export business, at least Japanese customers have some loyalty to home built products.

By the way, the short-term solution is to raise the bridge using jacks and new bearings.
japanese are kinda beat up, but as a avid enjoyer of their more finer arts, i have to say the japanese aren't that beat up when it comes to competition with hollywood and bollywood. not much beats anime.
the cars are also for the most part better than the american counterparts, aside from nissan. but i wouldn't say the japanese are beat up because they can't compete in the export business, as they export a lot of goods and culture to the west. they are suffering from low birth rates, overwork, and a elderly population, much like the rest of the world is experiencing. other industries im not sure about, but im pretty sure for the majority of japanese industry those 3 main problems are why japan is probably gonna go into a bad recession soon.
but im not sure how the price of goods from a international scale has much of a point post-covid. especially since the supply chain suffered a lot during the pandemic. i doubt the port of savanna is gonna remain a valid shipping port, but it could very well be a cheaper port to go to in the future. many companies are now looking to shipping products closer to home, and thats why i mentioned mexico would be a major producer, as theres now a lot of investment pouring into mexico rn.
it would not surprise me if mexico is seen overtaking china as a economic power. the only 2 things mexico has problems in that can hinder such progress, is crime and education. however i imagine that'll change in the coming years, as investment money pours into the country.
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Every once in awhile declare peace! it confuses the hell outta your enemies!

 


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