SH-114 at FM-156 Question

[BJ59]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0290563,-97.3099753,3a,75y,81.99h,82.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D84.689896%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Why did they build the underpass like this? There's no room for expanding the road. How come they didn't build the road in the median where its a lot wider and you could fit a lot more lanes between the bridge support beams?

[MaxConcrete]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0290563,-97.3099753,3a,75y,81.99h,82.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D84.689896%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Why did they build the underpass like this? There's no room for expanding the road. How come they didn't build the road in the median where its a lot wider and you could fit a lot more lanes between the bridge support beams?

I think the current lanes will become a frontage road bypass when the main lanes are built in the median.

[bwana39]

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.0290563,-97.3099753,3a,75y,81.99h,82.52t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DK_4pR1w_uzBiE3ea5F5bIw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D84.689896%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Why did they build the underpass like this? There's no room for expanding the road. How come they didn't build the road in the median where its a lot wider and you could fit a lot more lanes between the bridge support beams?

I think the current lanes will become a frontage road bypass when the main lanes are built in the median.

Exactly,

In the end, it should look like this one.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/bQAhvbZSwpaVMVUy8

[Bobby5280]

I'm surprised this is even a question. If anyone looks at the overhead imagery of the TX-114/FM-156 intersection they'll clearly see the TX-114 main lane stubs (along with other ramp stubs).

The thing that's going to be more interesting is how TX-114 could possibly be upgraded to Interstate standards any farther West of the TX-114/FM-156 interchange. It would be a really tight squeeze for any such upgrade since the ROW is only about 230' wide.

[motorola870]

I'm surprised this is even a question. If anyone looks at the overhead imagery of the TX-114/FM-156 intersection they'll clearly see the TX-114 main lane stubs (along with other ramp stubs).

The thing that's going to be more interesting is how TX-114 could possibly be upgraded to Interstate standards any farther West of the TX-114/FM-156 interchange. It would be a really tight squeeze for any such upgrade since the ROW is only about 230' wide.

I think what TXDOT plans on doing is getting 114 grade separated up to 156 and needs to badly do upgrades west of there but they let the housing boom get in the way without buying up right of way for future expansion. Tbh I consider the big issue is getting the I35W and 114 interchange upgraded. I consider 114 west of Grapevine as an alternative for traffic heading north out of central areas of DFW towards Oklahoma as a bypass to go around Lewisville and Denton via I35W. I've traveled this way several times going to Oklahoma coming out of Arlington taking 360 to 121/114 and heading west.

[Bobby5280]

Whenever I drive down to the Dallas area I'm almost always going into the metroplex via TX-114. TX DOT and state lawmakers grossly under-estimated the amount of growth and development that would happen in that area of the metro. But it should have been plainly obvious once Texas Motor Speedway got built in that location.

I think it's a foregone conclusion the intersection of TX-114 and I-35W will have to be upgraded to a 5-level directional stack interchange in the somewhat near future. There is already so much new development around that area. It's staggering how many logistics warehouses have sprouted up around there in just the past several years. TX DOT will be stuck having to buy and demolish around a dozen commercial properties that got built up right on the corners of the TX-114/I-35W intersection.

Highway engineers might be able to offset the stack interchange design off center to where the ramps are hanging more over the NW side of the intersection. Right now that's a vacant piece of land with a pond on it.

Going West of the TX-114/FM-156 interchange I think it's still geometrically possible to squeeze a freeway and frontage roads through there. It would be a really skinny design where the roadways are butted next to each other and separated by concrete Jersey barriers. TX DOT would probably have to buy and remove some properties in locations where they wanted to build slip ramps and overpasses. The ROW requirements flare outward a good bit for those features. Or it could be a situation where traffic on the freeway lanes wouldn't be able to exit anywhere between US-287 and FM-156.

[BJ59]

SH-114 will not only be needed for getting traffic in and out of the metroplex but once Fort Worth and its suburbs fully encompass that corridor it will be needed as a suburban freeway to get traffic to I-35W and US-287, as well as getting traffic to DFW airport. I know a lot growth is happening in that area already but I think once that area fully fills in with houses and businesses SH-114 has potential to serve as a major northern freeway for the metro, kind of like how SH-121/Sam Rayburn Tollway has in the Frisco/McKinney area.

Does anyone know if there is any planning for a 5-stack at I-35W and if there is an anticipated date for construction?

[Bobby5280]

I don't think there are any real plans at this point. But if such a project is not already on the radar scopes of highway planners I'd have to say they've been taking stupid pills or something.

The I-35W express lanes are being built up to the interchange with Alliance Gateway Freeway. That's not far away from the TX-114/I-35W interchange. It's noteworthy the freeway project for TX-114 from US-377 to I-35W will have a 3x3 lanes configuration. They'll need to build the TX-114 freeway through the I-35W interchange with 3x3 lanes.

Passing by the Northwest ISD school complex (which looks like the size of a college campus) and going West it would be a tight squeeze to build a TX-114 freeway with 3x3 lanes plus 2 lane frontage roads. But they're probably going to have to figure out some way to do it since there's so damned much growth happening there.

[armadillo speedbump]

It wasn't really TXDOT's decision, they were pressured big time by pinhead NIMBY politicians in the local area that didn't want a freeway and wanted it to always be a rural area.

[Bobby5280]

Yeah, the NIMBY types really blew it with their desires for that area to stay rural looking.

It's actually pretty hilarious for anyone buying property in the DFW region to expect the surroundings to stay country looking over the long term. If they want something that's going to stay rural looking they'll need to buy in more far-flung locations not in the direction where DFW metro is spreading.

[debragga]

Passing by the Northwest ISD school complex (which looks like the size of a college campus)...

I'm gonna nitpick/clarify a bit here but only because it really speaks to the growth in the area. That complex has lots of athletic facilities and the district headquarters along with other district facilities, but the middle school in the complex is only one of 6 in the district, and the high school is only one of 3 (4 if you count the Early College school). One of the other high schools is about 8 miles east and is not far off of SH-114, so that really speaks to the growth in the area considering both schools have 2500+ kids each.

[Bobby5280]

When I drive by that school complex it still strikes me as being the size of a college campus. And it only helps to prove there is a TITANIC amount of both commercial and residential growth taking place in that area. BOTH the TX-114 and I-35W corridors need to be high capacity freeways through that location. TX-114 needs to be an Interstate quality freeway between I-35W and US-287.

[In_Correct]

I can also attest to the size of Northwest I.S.D. Complex. It is so very large it contains Portable Classrooms, and many of them.

[Road Hog]

I'm amazed as well how much NWISD has grown in the last 24 years. When I first moved to North Texas, there was one little unremarkable 4A school and the big story was when a couple of Odessa Permian coaches of the "Friday Night Lights" era came to coach there. Now it has three high schools that will be playing in the biggest classification.

[Bobby5280]

I read about a proposal near Rhome (by the US-287/TX-114 split) that would build 10,000 new homes. Whole residential subdivisions are popping up here and there. What's weird is how a new neighborhood will go up and then nearby a giant logistics warehouse is getting built. It's an odd mix. But whatever it is it's sure going to generate a shit-ton more vehicle traffic.

At least TX DOT has real plans to upgrade US-287 to a 3x3 freeway configuration from I-35W up to the intersections with TX-114 in Rhome.

It was stupid of TX DOT to not secure a 300' wide ROW when they four-laned TX-114 between I-35W and US-287 ten or so years ago.

TX DOT could squeeze in a 4-lane Interstate configuration similar to this one on I-69 (former IN-37) in Indiana. The Interstate, frontage roads and 40' wide median are only around 220' across.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.2955076,-86.518282,3a,75y,342.2h,85.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sMzKhu6-OvRJtP7bVIgjyJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu

If things keep booming in that general area TX DOT will have to upgrade TX-114 into a configuration more like this strip of US-19 near Tampa:
https://www.google.com/maps/@28.0019075,-82.7296591,3a,75y,171.95h,87.1t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s0rNBS63SnLZWFbPH9N-cJw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?authuser=0&entry=ttu

[In_Correct]

Good News short term for S.H. 114 ... and at the same time Bad News long term for S.H. 114

Approximately 8 days ago they began construction for traffic signals. While it is ideal for those at 7 Eleven since they have to cross it at grade and with no signal, and while this intersection would continue to not have a signal, it is between two other signals.

However, traffic lights like to multiply. The more development occurs along S.H. 114, the more traffic lights are constructed.

Perhaps one day it might be Six Lanes ... still with Traffic Lights. It need not be like U.S. 380.

By the way, those two map links of example highways certainly would be preferbale instead of what seems to be going on so far.

[Bobby5280]

Currently there are 5 signaled intersections on TX-114 between US-287 and I-35W. This one at Wolf Crossing (and the 7-Eleven) would be the sixth. It's only 2000' from another signal at Harriet Creek Drive.

Yeah, I would certainly expect the number of traffic signals on that stretch of TX-114 to increase. I'm surprised there isn't already a signal at Texan Drive; that's the main entrance for the Northwest ISD football stadium and track field. They might just add another signal at Holland Hill Drive, the first intersection East of the freight rail line. That would put 3 traffic signals within close distance of each other. West of the TX-114 bridge over the BNSF line there is at least another half dozen intersectios where new signals may be installed.

All of this kind of makes me miss the days when that portion of TX-114 was just a two lane road. Back then the first stop light I'd hit after leaving US-287 was the intersection with I-35W.

If the TX-114 gets pock-marked with too many traffic lights I'll have to revert back to using US-380 from Decatur to Denton when driving to Dallas.

By the way, those two map links of example highways certainly would be preferable instead of what seems to be going on so far.

Yeah, the I-69 example in Indiana would be perfect for that part of TX-114. It wouldn't require any new ROW. TX DOT would probably have to build a couple or so bridges over it in addition to any exits to preserve "left turn" access with the opposite side frontage roads.

[In_Correct]

Update: F.M. 156 shall get yet another Traffic Light. However, at least this time it is not on S.H. 114.

[armadillo speedbump]

114 doesn't have to be a traditional freeway, a free flow superstreet with grade separations at all lights is good enough and would fit inside the entire existing ROW.

As noted in another thread and earlier discussions about the same 114 stretch, the Hwy 90A superstreet in SW Houston has intersections that fit within 205-230' of ROW.  See the Gessner, Fondren, and Hillcroft intersections on Google Satellite view.  That includes 3x3 through lanes on the overpasses, another lane each way to/from the intersections, all the turn lanes, and 10-20' per side of set back sidewalks plus grassy buffers.  Gessner's pavement is only 175 wide at the intersection.

There's no reason 114 west of 156 can't likewise be upgraded.  The ROW is as narrow as 230' in a few places, 220' at the stadium, but based on actual setbacks, 250'or more wide most of the way.  The wall at the stadium can be set back as the intersection is approached.

It's just a matter of money and politics.  TXDOT probably settled for now and can always come back later to fight the NIMBY's on expansion.

[Bobby5280]

A "super street" design would be a waste of money applied to the 10 mile segment of TX-114 between US-287 and I-35W.

I don't consider US-90A on the Southwest side of Houston a good example of surface street design. It pretends to be a freeway yet has a bunch of different driveways and side streets connecting directly to the main lanes. That's great for creating severe traffic conflicts. Someone pulls out of a parking lot directly into the main lanes of a fake freeway. Thru traffic has to slam the brakes to avoid a collision. I feel safer driving on an arterial like Powers Blvd in Colorado Springs. It has traffic signals, but they're spaced far apart and there are no damned driveways and little side streets connecting directly to it. Some actual filtering is in place. That's not the case in Houston. For surface streets there are no access controls at all. Every side street and driveway connects to the main arterial. That sucks.

In some respects US-1 between Trenton and New Brunswick is a better example of a super street design. But even that one has problems. It has speed limits that vary between 55mph and 45mph. The highway has a lot of traffic on it, partly from people shunpiking the NJ Turnpike nearby.

I think the solution for TX-114 is a real freeway design flanked by frontage roads. But in this case the frontage roads can be butted up next to the freeway main lanes and separated by concrete Jersey barriers. That would save a lot of space. There are examples of this setup in other places, such as parts of I-69 in Southern Indiana. A portion of I-69 on the South side of Nacogdoches is getting built the same way.

TX-114 between FM-156 and US-287 doesn't need a bunch of freeway exits on it, be it a "super street" or proper freeway. They can build overpasses to provide thru connections for local streets that need to cross over the highway. Barrier separated frontage roads will solve most of the problems.

[BJ59]

Update: F.M. 156 shall get yet another Traffic Light. However, at least this time it is not on S.H. 114.

Where is the new light coming in at?