AARoads Forum

A place to discuss the upcoming Tokyo games

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First of all, other than tornado warning information, the Olympics are the only thing my family watches on live TV.  In fact, when my son and I were interviewed by a local TV station recently about COVID vaccination, we had to scramble to figure out how to hook up the antenna to our new TV set–which we've had since Christmas.  Now that we've figured out it has a built-in antenna (d'oh!), I'm sure we'll be tuning in soon.  It's on NBC, correct?

Also, I just heard that there will be no spectators this year, as Japan is declaring a pandemic-related state of emergency.  That doesn't bother me, because I don't watch the games to see spectators, but it's got to stink for those who had planned to attend.

NBC has the games, but will likely butcher it as they've done in years past. Best to use a VPN and tune into a proper station like the CBC or BBC.

Due to the time difference, events will be live between about 10pm and 10am ET. NBC will mostly be running previous day's events in their primetime slots. Some of the overnight live events will be live on some of the cable stations, and all will be on their digital platform.

Quote from: Bruce on July 09, 2021, 04:38:26 PM
NBC has the games, but will likely butcher it as they've done in years past. Best to use a VPN and tune into a proper station like the CBC or BBC.

Then you won't like the next six editions either (Winter Games in 2022, '26 and '30, Summer Games in 2024, '28 and '32)...unless their contract is extended again, the last year of televising the Olympics will be 2032.

Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

It's still being called the 2020 games.

Am I the only one annoyed at it being called the 2020 Olympics. I know the reason is probably because they made a bunch of stuff with the Tokyo 2020 logo on it and they don't want to have to destroy that stuff but I don't see what's positive about referring to it by a year that is regarded by most people as an absolute dumpster fire. Same goes for you Euro 2020. I would love for 2020 to be in the rear view mirror and for events to reference the present instead. For what will absolutely be a unique and strange Olympics I wish they could embrace the weirdness of calling it Tokyo 2021, the first Olympics held in an odd-numbered year. At least NBC won't probably be calling it Tokyo 2020 a lot, usually they just called it the Games of the 32nd Olympiad which will at least still be true.

Quote from: tdindy88 on July 10, 2021, 09:02:06 AM
Am I the only one annoyed at it being called the 2020 Olympics. I know the reason is probably because they made a bunch of stuff with the Tokyo 2020 logo on it and they don't want to have to destroy that stuff but I don't see what's positive about referring to it by a year that is regarded by most people as an absolute dumpster fire. Same goes for you Euro 2020. I would love for 2020 to be in the rear view mirror and for events to reference the present instead. For what will absolutely be a unique and strange Olympics I wish they could embrace the weirdness of calling it Tokyo 2021, the first Olympics held in an odd-numbered year. At least NBC won't probably be calling it Tokyo 2020 a lot, usually they just called it the Games of the 32nd Olympiad which will at least still be true.

March Madness...
Boys of Summer...
Observing a holiday on a day other than the actual holiday...
Celebrating a birthday on a date other than the birthday...
A city's airport not actually in the city...

I have no issues with the 2020 Olympics not actually beling held in 2020. 

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 09, 2021, 06:37:27 PM
Due to the time difference, events will be live between about 10pm and 10am ET. NBC will mostly be running previous day's events in their primetime slots. Some of the overnight live events will be live on some of the cable stations, and all will be on their digital platform.

Yeah a lot of the backup channels (USA, CNBC, MSNBC, etc) will run live uncut events. Those are the most fun to watch. The primetime NBC is just riddled with edits/cuts and takes away from the entire event imo.

I really have no desire to watch any of the Olympic events, winter or summer.

Especially gymnastics, figure skating, or other events where the winners are scored by subjective judging rather than by an actual competition.

Water polo has always interested me. That's about it.

I'm gonna watch them as much as possible.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2021, 08:05:11 PM
Especially gymnastics, figure skating, or other events where the winners are scored by subjective judging rather than by an actual competition.

Subjective judging can certainly get subjective, as we all know from Holey Moley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXrBNc7wiH0

C'mon, horse dancing!!

One of our neighbors is going to Tokyo.

Quote from: Bruce on July 10, 2021, 05:25:56 AM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

It's still being called the 2020 games.

Correct.  I made darned sure what the games were actually called before creating the topic.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2021, 08:05:11 PM
I really have no desire to watch any of the Olympic events, winter or summer.

Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Water polo has always interested me. That's about it.

Water polo is fun to watch.  I enjoy the summer games much more than the winter ones.  The reason is that I enjoy watching more of the events.  Besides water polo, I also enjoy gymnastics, swimming, diving, and volleyball.  There are others I'd enjoy, if only I could ever actually catch them on TV:  archery and equestrian stuff among them.  For some reason, I most dislike rowing.

Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 14, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
One of our neighbors is going to Tokyo.

But not to be a spectator at the Olympics...?

Quote from: kphoger on July 14, 2021, 08:32:01 PM

Quote from: Bruce on July 10, 2021, 05:25:56 AM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

It's still being called the 2020 games.

Correct.  I made darned sure what the games were actually called before creating the topic.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 10, 2021, 08:05:11 PM
I really have no desire to watch any of the Olympic events, winter or summer.

Quote from: thspfc on July 10, 2021, 09:59:16 PM
Water polo has always interested me. That's about it.

Water polo is fun to watch.  I enjoy the summer games much more than the winter ones.  The reason is that I enjoy watching more of the events.  Besides water polo, I also enjoy gymnastics, swimming, diving, and volleyball.  There are others I'd enjoy, if only I could ever actually catch them on TV:  archery and equestrian stuff among them.  For some reason, I most dislike rowing.

Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 14, 2021, 08:04:11 PM
One of our neighbors is going to Tokyo.

But not to be a spectator at the Olympics...?

He's an archer and will be at the Paralympics.

It's crazy how much Americans worship Usain Bolt, but ignore the most decorated *person* in track and field history, Allyson Felix  :-/. But anyways, I'm really only tuning in for her.

I remember a old Carnak joke by Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show

Johnny as Carnak says, "Mark Spitz."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
When the envelope is open, it reads: "How do they fill the Olympic swimming pool?"

Quote from: kenarmy on July 14, 2021, 08:47:52 PM
It's crazy how much Americans worship Usain Bolt, but ignore the most decorated *person* in track and field history, Allyson Felix  :-/. But anyways, I'm really only tuning in for her.

Unfortunately women's sports often get ignored.

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

Did you call the recently-concluded football tournament Euro 2021 as well?

Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Who is your favorite canoe slalom competitor?

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 15, 2021, 08:46:15 PM
Who is your favorite canoe slalom competitor?

Alan Perkins, ALN

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 15, 2021, 08:46:15 PM
Who is your favorite canoe slalom competitor?

Scott5113

Quote from: Alps on July 15, 2021, 11:56:00 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 15, 2021, 08:46:15 PM
Who is your favorite canoe slalom competitor?

Scott5113

I prefer Scott5115.

Quote from: Takumi on July 15, 2021, 07:14:44 PM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

Did you call the recently-concluded football tournament Euro 2021 as well?

Yep. I go with the year the event actually takes place in, regardless of what they call it. Also, Euro 2020 2021 was what you call soccer, not gridiron football.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 16, 2021, 12:06:53 AM

Quote from: Alps on July 15, 2021, 11:56:00 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 15, 2021, 08:46:15 PM
Who is your favorite canoe slalom competitor?

Scott5113

I prefer Scott5115.

I have actually used 5115 as an alternate for some things, like IRC when I would time out as Scott5114 and the server hadn't released the username by the time I came back.

In 5115 (an unfinished album by Daft Punk), a nameless man in the far future discovers a Technics turntable in a cave (next to a dead mouse) and revives the lost art of DJ.

The one Olympics event I'll watch is new for 2020 2021: commuter train-packing. Fit as many 5 foot 6 salarymen as possible into a single Yamanote car.

I would really love to see a version of Qix/paper.io/whatever it's called where people run around a field (instead of being a video game) and turn the electronic floor one of two different colors.

I'm actually serious about this one.

Keldon Johnson and Javale McGee have been selected for the Olympic team USA basketball team.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

To recap: if you don't like the topic and have nothing to add, just imagine what happens next. 

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

Because you hate sports now so you never come to the sports board.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

Cause it was racism and baiting.

In the meantime, I hope this Olympics goes well!

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

It wasn't fun

Quote from: formulanone on July 16, 2021, 04:02:05 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

To recap: if you don't like the topic and have nothing to add, just imagine what happens next.

That sounds like a clickbait headline.  :-D

That sounds like those closed threads that appear overnight Central Europe and are already locked by the time I wake up, thus preventing me from ever getting into the fun. And the same hbelkins said has happened to me in that same time frame before.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 16, 2021, 03:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 15, 2021, 08:07:14 PM
Off-topic posts (including the bitching that started the whole derailment) removed. If this thread doesn't start discussing who your favorite canoe slalom competitor is I'm gonna be so damn pissed

Why do I always miss all the fun?

You haven't; you're free to pick your favorite canoe slalomer.

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 16, 2021, 03:50:22 AM

Quote from: Takumi on July 15, 2021, 07:14:44 PM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

Did you call the recently-concluded football tournament Euro 2021 as well?

Yep. I go with the year the event actually takes place in, regardless of what they call it. Also, Euro 2020 2021 was what you call soccer, not gridiron football.

At least you're consistent in your anality.

Quote from: Takumi on July 17, 2021, 07:48:25 PM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 16, 2021, 03:50:22 AM

Quote from: Takumi on July 15, 2021, 07:14:44 PM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 10, 2021, 05:18:23 AM
Fixed thread title. No such event took place last year.

Did you call the recently-concluded football tournament Euro 2021 as well?

Yep. I go with the year the event actually takes place in, regardless of what they call it. Also, Euro 2020 2021 was what you call soccer, not gridiron football.

At least you're consistent in your anality.

I agree with CNGL-Leudimin.

I can see the logic for either choice. I used to be like that to an extent, but then I realized that life's too short.

https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state), there's clearly enough money to pay for the vaccinations, I doubt there are many immunocompromised Olympic athletes, and all the athletes are going to be living in close quarters (where, at past games, they spend their down time hooking up with each other).

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state), there's clearly enough money to pay for the vaccinations, I doubt there are many immunocompromised Olympic athletes, and all the athletes are going to be living in close quarters (where, at past games, they spend their down time hooking up with each other).

Probably because it was not fully approved?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state), there's clearly enough money to pay for the vaccinations, I doubt there are many immunocompromised Olympic athletes, and all the athletes are going to be living in close quarters (where, at past games, they spend their down time hooking up with each other).

I don't know the approval status and the availability of the vaccine in every country, so it would be hard to mandate. I do think the USOC should have mandated it for US athletes though, as neither approval status nor availability is an issue in the US.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state), there's clearly enough money to pay for the vaccinations, I doubt there are many immunocompromised Olympic athletes, and all the athletes are going to be living in close quarters (where, at past games, they spend their down time hooking up with each other).

Freedom lol.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 06:48:50 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state), there's clearly enough money to pay for the vaccinations, I doubt there are many immunocompromised Olympic athletes, and all the athletes are going to be living in close quarters (where, at past games, they spend their down time hooking up with each other).

Freedom lol.

private agency lol

Cabiness42 offered a logical and likely explanation for why the vaccine is not mandatory for Olympic athletes. Instead, RGT decided to break out the classic "freedumbs" , as if that term hasn't been run into the ground for the last year.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state)...

It's still illegal on the federal level. Anyone with a CDL can't use.  Companies and organizations are permitted to have their own policies, and anyone with that company or organization must abide by that policy.

Alcohol is another example. It's legal to consume by anyone 21 or over, but one can't drive drunk.

Does Japan have some sort of national law regarding required vaccinations? If there's a prohibition, then the IOC couldn't require something that runs afoul of the law.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334)

If you just absolutely can't wait any longer for the Olympic action to start, the very first event is a Japan vs Australia softball game, first pitch at 8pm ET Tuesday (9am Wednesday in Tokyo).

First even involving American athletes is three hours later, when the US softball team takes on Italy.

Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334)

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 19, 2021, 12:10:25 PM

Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334)

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.

Good. Hopefully there are no more cases.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2021, 09:10:14 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state)...

It's still illegal on the federal level. Anyone with a CDL can't use.  Companies and organizations are permitted to have their own policies, and anyone with that company or organization must abide by that policy.

Alcohol is another example. It's legal to consume by anyone 21 or over, but one can't drive drunk.

Yeah, but a private organization like the IOC can set their standards for what is an acceptable substance to test positive for and what isn't, because, as you say, they're permitted to have their own policies. Legal status is irrelevant; that is between the athlete and the government. Especially since the IOC also operates in countries like Canada and the Netherlands where it's not an illegal substance on the national level. They can choose to just not test for cannabinoids if they like. I can't imagine that they have a performance enhancing effect, and there's really no risk of a runner losing control, flying off the track, smashing into the stands, and killing 62 spectators or anything like that. 

So IOC can set whatever standards they like, "just cuz". Clearly they have no problems doing so, as they have done so in the past. They are a private organization and have the rights to do so.

Since they can set whatever standards they like for athletes' bodies, why not set a standard that they must take the vaccine before competing? Sure, it's not available in every country, but they could have stockpiled enough doses for every athlete and had unvaccinated athletes ship out to Tokyo early enough that they could be fully vaccinated by the time the games started. The only approval that matters at that point is Japan's, and Japan has approved more vaccines for use on their population than the US has.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 19, 2021, 12:10:25 PM

Quote from: LM117 on July 19, 2021, 11:09:59 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

....aaaannnnnd a member of the US women's gymnastics team has Covid.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/member-u-s-women-s-gymnastics-team-tests-positive-covid-n1274334)

According to her father, she was vaccinated. Remember, the efficacy of the vaccines is very, very good but not 100%. If you are in a field where you are subject to regular testing, like sports, you're going to have some positive tests among the vaccinated, but data shows that vaccinated people who get infected have far, far lower instances of actually getting symptoms.

Well, of course.  Getting vaccinated doesn't mean the virus bounces off of you like it's hitting a shield.  Rather, your immune system knows how to deal with it when you are infected.  I would think positive tests amongst the asymptomatic vaccinated would be expected.

Vaccinations should have been mandated for participation. 

Quote from: Rothman on July 19, 2021, 12:47:54 PM
Vaccinations should have been mandated for participation.

I agree

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 19, 2021, 12:39:09 PM

Quote from: jeffandnicole on July 19, 2021, 09:10:14 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 18, 2021, 11:57:05 AM
https://www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/31835854/two-athletes-residing-tokyo-olympic-village-test-positive-covid-19

uh oh

I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate. IOC already regulates what athletes can and can't put into their bodies (they bounced a US runner for testing positive for weed, which was legal in her state)...

It's still illegal on the federal level. Anyone with a CDL can't use.  Companies and organizations are permitted to have their own policies, and anyone with that company or organization must abide by that policy.

Alcohol is another example. It's legal to consume by anyone 21 or over, but one can't drive drunk.

Yeah, but a private organization like the IOC can set their standards for what is an acceptable substance to test positive for and what isn't, because, as you say, they're permitted to have their own policies. Legal status is irrelevant; that is between the athlete and the government. Especially since the IOC also operates in countries like Canada and the Netherlands where it's not an illegal substance on the national level. They can choose to just not test for cannabinoids if they like. I can't imagine that they have a performance enhancing effect, and there's really no risk of a runner losing control, flying off the track, smashing into the stands, and killing 62 spectators or anything like that. 

So IOC can set whatever standards they like, "just cuz". Clearly they have no problems doing so, as they have done so in the past. They are a private organization and have the rights to do so.

Since they can set whatever standards they like for athletes' bodies, why not set a standard that they must take the vaccine before competing? Sure, it's not available in every country, but they could have stockpiled enough doses for every athlete and had unvaccinated athletes ship out to Tokyo early enough that they could be fully vaccinated by the time the games started. The only approval that matters at that point is Japan's, and Japan has approved more vaccines for use on their population than the US has.

I'm going to predict that the NCAA will also continue to test for pot despite its legality in a number of states.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:41:10 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.

What counterexample? Is there a √2 person anywhere?

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:44:20 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:41:10 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

None, I was just making myself more criticism proof in case someone thought of a counterexample.

What counterexample? Is there a √2 person anywhere?

Lol I get it

Quote from: 1 on July 20, 2021, 02:38:36 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 20, 2021, 02:37:30 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 01:55:58 PM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 18, 2021, 05:37:47 PM
I don't know why the IOC didn't make vaccination mandatory to participate.

I can easily imagine the blowback that would happen in countries that are still struggling to get vaccines out to the population, yet the vaccines are going to Olympic athletes instead.

In most countries athletes would make up a fraction of the population.

In which countries would it not?

There are irrational people all over the world.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 20, 2021, 03:13:34 PM
There are irrational people all over the world.

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CoordinatedEnergeticChipmunk-size_restricted.gif)

To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 04:51:19 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

I’ve taken both cannabis and Tylenol. Tylenol never impaired me. Nor did it ever put me in the hospital.

(Full disclosure: I support marijuana being legal. Just keep it the fuck away from me.)

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 04:51:19 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

Eh, I can kind of see where he's coming from. Tetrahydrocannibinol famously has psychoactive side effects, but it and cannabidiol are both quite effective as a pain killer, and can remain in someone's system as a pain reliever long after the high wears off. (This is why marijuana testing is bogus in general–while a Breathalyzer test can tell you exactly how impaired someone is in the moment, someone can test positive for marijuana for weeks after they consumed it.)

The basic question here is does THC and CBD present some sort of performance-enhancing effect that makes consuming it before competing unfair to the athletes that don't? (Kind of doubtful, I think.)  Does it produce some sort of safety concern? (Kind of doubtful, I think; Olympic athletes aren't really operating heavy machinery or doing much that could potentially injure a bystander, though it might be a good idea to not have the javelin tossers and shot putters be high.) Or did the IOC ban it just to ban it out of ignorance?

Quote from: Takumi on July 20, 2021, 06:47:22 PM
I've taken both cannabis and Tylenol. Tylenol never impaired me. Nor did it ever put me in the hospital.

This sounds like there's a story behind it.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2021, 07:56:32 PM
This sounds like there's a story behind it.

Suffice to say there was a woman involved.  It's not a night I wish to revisit. I also don't wish to ever revisit trying marijuana again.

I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cannabis then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cocaine then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Would you still agree with that statement with the change I made above?

Quote from: hbelkins on July 20, 2021, 10:21:59 PM

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cocaine then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Would you still agree with that statement with the change I made above?

Cocaine may be considered a performance enhancer.

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cannabis then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Depends.  Is weed still illegal in Japan?  Even if it's legal now, it still affects performance, and not in a good way.  I can't believe that any world class athlete would be using it right before or during a competition.

Wow, the US women's soccer team lost 3-0 to Sweden. Quite the shock.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 20, 2021, 07:56:32 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 20, 2021, 04:51:19 PM

Quote from: triplemultiplex on July 20, 2021, 04:42:42 PM
To be consistent, the IOC should also be testing for and banning the use of Ibuprofen and Aspirin and other painkillers.  If you're going to ban cannabis, but not these other pharmaceutical grade pain medications, then that's just rank hypocrisy. 

I can't see from here if your tongue is in your cheek or not...

Equating cannabis to Tylenol isn't exactly a smart argument.  No two drugs are the same, and a ban on one doesn't necessitate that a different one likewise be banned.

(This is why marijuana testing is bogus in general–while a Breathalyzer test can tell you exactly how impaired someone is in the moment, someone can test positive for marijuana for weeks after they consumed it.)

Tell me about it.  That's how my boss, who worked for this company for twenty years and who is the husband of my co-worker, lost his job.  It didn't even occur to him that he might fail a drug test several days later.

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on July 21, 2021, 12:49:11 AM

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cannabis then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Depends.  Is weed still illegal in Japan?  Even if it's legal now, it still affects performance, and not in a good way.  I can't believe that any world class athlete would be using it right before or during a competition.

The athlete that got bounced from the competition was a US sprinter that hadn't yet set foot on Japanese soil. Failing a drug test in Oregon (where it's legal for all uses) caused her result in a qualifying race (in Oregon) to be vacated, and without that result, she wasn't eligible to even go to Japan.

Hey now, this isn't just an Olympics issue.  There are many other signatories to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).  You know, such as these:

International Jump Rope Union (IJRU)
International Federation of Match Poker (IFMP)
Organización Deportiva Bolivariana (ODEBO)

(You can't make this stuff up!)

^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

I own a playing card company and worked in casino gaming for 10½ years, and I've never heard of "match poker", nor can I understand why you would need to worry about performance-enhancing drugs in poker.

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
Hey now, this isn't just an Olympics issue.  There are many other signatories to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).  You know, such as these:

International Jump Rope Union (IJRU)
International Federation of Match Poker (IFMP)
Organización Deportiva Bolivariana (ODEBO)

(You can't make this stuff up!)

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

No.  That would be Organización Deportiva Venezolana.

Opening ceremony is tomorrow. It's actually happening.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 22, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Opening ceremony is tomorrow. It's actually happening.

For once.

Quote from: kevinb1994 on July 22, 2021, 04:59:29 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 22, 2021, 04:52:56 PM
Opening ceremony is tomorrow. It's actually happening.

For once.

Well...if you're not aware, we have had olympics for decades now. :D

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
I own a playing card company and worked in casino gaming for 10½ years, and I've never heard of "match poker", nor can I understand why you would need to worry about performance-enhancing drugs in poker.

Yeah that one puzzles me as well.  Unless someone has shit so good it gives you x-ray vision and you can see the other players cards??

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

I own a playing card company and worked in casino gaming for 10½ years, and I've never heard of "match poker", nor can I understand why you would need to worry about performance-enhancing drugs in poker.

Match poker is similar to duplicates bridge. The hands are randomized and dealt to all players, with your "team" occupying a different position, and thus getting a different hand, at every table. I heard someone talking about it during one of the poker TV shows, but it doesn't seem to have gotten big.

Brisbane was awarded the 2032 Olympics.

Quote from: MinecraftNinja on July 23, 2021, 12:53:19 AM
Brisbane was awarded the 2032 Olympics.

They haven't even awarded the 2030 winter Olympics yet.

Quote from: kphoger on July 22, 2021, 04:04:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
Hey now, this isn't just an Olympics issue.  There are many other signatories to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).  You know, such as these:

International Jump Rope Union (IJRU)
International Federation of Match Poker (IFMP)
Organización Deportiva Bolivariana (ODEBO)

(You can't make this stuff up!)

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

No.  That would be Organización Deportiva Venezolana.

What's "Bolivariana" mean, then? I assumed at first it was a fancy way of saying "Bolivian", or maybe "all the countries Bolivar had something to do with seceding from Spain", but the only thing "Bolivariana" comes up with on (US) Google is Venezuelan organizations.

Opening Ceremony just started live on NBC if you're up early and are able to watch.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 23, 2021, 07:03:44 AM
Opening Ceremony just started live on NBC if you're up early and are able to watch.

I guess that's why I was up an hour earlier than I was planning for a drive to the dealership.

I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 23, 2021, 09:03:14 AM
I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

There are three groups of athletes not competing under a national flag:

The name Russia, the Russian flag and the Russian anthem are banned for all international competitions from 2018-22 as punishment for a state-sponsored doping program.

For the second time, a team of refugees from various countries are competing under the Olympic flag as the Olympic Refugee team.

Through agreement with China, athletes from Taiwan can compete under the name Chinese Taipei and the Olympic Flag.

There are some others as well–territories that are not "nations" for regular purposes but that are recognized as having independent Olympic committees for some reason. I haven't taken the time to figure out all of them, but I know Puerto Rico is one because their basketball team infamously beat Team USA in a round-robin game at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Quote from: 1995hoo on July 23, 2021, 09:16:41 AM
There are some others as well–territories that are not "nations" for regular purposes but that are recognized as having independent Olympic committees for some reason. I haven't taken the time to figure out all of them, but I know Puerto Rico is one because their basketball team infamously beat Team USA in a round-robin game at the 2004 Athens Olympics.

Right, but they compete under their own flag. I was referring to three groups who either can't use their flag or don't have one.

Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, American Samoa and Guam all have athletes at this Olympics. Hong Kong also has their own Olympic team separate from China.

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2021, 02:46:59 AM

Quote from: kphoger on July 22, 2021, 04:04:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
Hey now, this isn't just an Olympics issue.  There are many other signatories to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).  You know, such as these:

International Jump Rope Union (IJRU)
International Federation of Match Poker (IFMP)
Organización Deportiva Bolivariana (ODEBO)

(You can't make this stuff up!)

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

No.  That would be Organización Deportiva Venezolana.

What's "Bolivariana" mean, then? I assumed at first it was a fancy way of saying "Bolivian", or maybe "all the countries Bolivar had something to do with seceding from Spain", but the only thing "Bolivariana" comes up with on (US) Google is Venezuelan organizations.

Holy Larousse, Batman!  You just schooled me on Spanish.

Quote from: kphoger on July 23, 2021, 10:14:06 AM

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 23, 2021, 02:46:59 AM

Quote from: kphoger on July 22, 2021, 04:04:01 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 21, 2021, 02:14:54 PM
Hey now, this isn't just an Olympics issue.  There are many other signatories to the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).  You know, such as these:

International Jump Rope Union (IJRU)
International Federation of Match Poker (IFMP)
Organización Deportiva Bolivariana (ODEBO)

(You can't make this stuff up!)

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 22, 2021, 03:56:30 PM
^ Doesn't that last one roughly translate to "Venezuelan Sports Organization"?

No.  That would be Organización Deportiva Venezolana.

What's "Bolivariana" mean, then? I assumed at first it was a fancy way of saying "Bolivian", or maybe "all the countries Bolivar had something to do with seceding from Spain", but the only thing "Bolivariana" comes up with on (US) Google is Venezuelan organizations.

Holy Larousse, Batman!  You just schooled me on Spanish.

On the bright side, if you decided to curse me out for that in Spanish, I'd have to Google whether or not I should be offended by it.  :sombrero:

Quote from: KeithE4Phx on July 21, 2021, 12:49:11 AM

Quote from: thspfc on July 20, 2021, 09:53:26 PM
I don't understand why it has to be so hard though. It's not the Olympic committee's job to regulate the athletes' everyday lives. As long as they're not using PEDs then it shouldn't be the committee's problem. If an athlete wants to use cannabis then they can do that at their own risk and deal with the consequences (because it's not exactly broccoli in terms of health, is it).

Depends.  Is weed still illegal in Japan?  Even if it's legal now, it still affects performance, and not in a good way.  I can't believe that any world class athlete would be using it right before or during a competition.

Japan is ridiculously strict about drugs other than alcohol. The legal system punishes harshly and companies will not work with someone who has drug charges on their record.

And the very first phenomenon is out. Su Po-ya, a Chinese Taipei (otherwise spelt "Taiwanese") taekwondo practitioner whose name sounds like su polla which is Spanish for "his dick" (and therefore it's no wonder why she has become a meme in Spain :sombrero:), has fallen in the Round of 16 of the Women's 49 kg competition. It would have been funnier if she had reached the final, as the Spanish entry has reached it as well (they wouldn't have meet until then, as they fell on different sides of the bracket).

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 23, 2021, 09:03:14 AM
I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

Speaking of maps, Russia is currently throwing a temper tantrum. Apparently, the initial map showed Crimea as part of Russia. Ukraine rightfully got pissed and the IOC changed the map back. Get fucked, Vlad.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea)

Quote from: LM117 on July 24, 2021, 10:27:24 AM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 23, 2021, 09:03:14 AM
I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

Speaking of maps, Russia is currently throwing a temper tantrum. Apparently, the initial map showed Crimea as part of Russia. Ukraine rightfully got pissed and the IOC changed the map back. Get fucked, Vlad.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea)

You mean get fucked, Vova. "Vlad" is short for Vladislav.

Anyway, Russia isn't allowed in the Olympics, so who gives a damn about their opinion? They're lucky they didn't just draw the whole damn country as part of Finland.

Quote from: LM117 on July 24, 2021, 10:27:24 AM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 23, 2021, 09:03:14 AM
I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

Speaking of maps, Russia is currently throwing a temper tantrum. Apparently, the initial map showed Crimea as part of Russia. Ukraine rightfully got pissed and the IOC changed the map back. Get fucked, Vlad.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea)

Who cares about maps. Both countries have a claim, just draw it as disputed.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 01:01:42 AM
Who cares about maps

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

Speaking of maps, which I love very much! China is complaining that NBC didn't show Taiwan as a part of China despite "Chinese Taipei" competing as its own group.

Speaking of the territories, why exactly are Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa and the Virgin Islands separate in the Olympics? I know the Olympics just has this weird stuff (such as Great Britain being a team but not the United Kingdom,) but shouldn't the territories be part of the U.S. team. I mean, if you are a U.S. citizen (maybe not with America Samoa) shouldn't you be with the U.S. Olympic Team? I mean, what happens if Puerto Rico ever becomes a state?

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 25, 2021, 01:31:39 AM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 01:01:42 AM
Who cares about maps

USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

I love road maps

Quote from: Scott5114 on July 25, 2021, 12:50:49 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 24, 2021, 10:27:24 AM

Quote from: CNGL-Leudimin on July 23, 2021, 09:03:14 AM
I'm now searching the great nation of Russian Olympic Committee in a map :sombrero:. They have a nice anthem too, at least it's not the same as the Olympic Hymn.

Speaking of maps, Russia is currently throwing a temper tantrum. Apparently, the initial map showed Crimea as part of Russia. Ukraine rightfully got pissed and the IOC changed the map back. Get fucked, Vlad.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea (https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-07-23/russia-fires-back-at-olympics-for-correcting-ukraine-map-to-include-crimea)

You mean get fucked, Vova. "Vlad" is short for Vladislav.

Anyway, Russia isn't allowed in the Olympics, so who gives a damn about their opinion? They're lucky they didn't just draw the whole damn country as part of Finland.

I agree with this, but only if they put a trigger warning first.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 01:01:42 AMWho cares about maps. Both countries have a claim, just draw it as disputed.

Not like both claims are equal. Russia likes to brag about the so-called referendum vote that supposedly shows Crimea wanting to join Russia. It's easy to get someone to vote in your favor when you send in little green men and hold them at gunpoint.

Quote from: tdindy88 on July 25, 2021, 01:36:56 AMI mean, what happens if Puerto Rico ever becomes a state?

They would lose their team.

Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

The IOC considers "insular" areas sufficiently independent to participate in the games, and they have the right to determine who is a country and who isn't. But there are others, such as Aruba, Bermuda, and the Cayman Islands who have teams so it's not that surprising.

Quote from: kenarmy on July 25, 2021, 12:54:47 PM
The IOC considers "insular" areas sufficiently independent to participate in the games, and they have the right to determine who is a country and who isn't. But there are others, such as Aruba, Bermuda, and the Cayman Islands who have teams so it's not that surprising.

This is also the case with Hong Kong and Macau, which have had Olympic-level teams since they were British and Portuguese possessions respectively (although Macau has yet to compete in the Olympics).

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

No, since it would a "whole" part of the country.

Oh, man, what an exciting thing to see Ahmed Hafnaoui win the gold medal at 400m freestyle swimming!

Most people probably had their eyes on the American swimmers, or whoever else the commentators were talking about ahead of time.  But, because I'm weird, I was watching the Tunisian the whole time.  I didn't know he had barely made it into the finals, finishing 8th in the trials.  All I knew is that he was from Tunisia, and I thought that was kind of cool, so I was watching him.  He was out in front with the leaders pretty much the entire time.  Yet the commentators weren't talking about him at all.  I wondered why, wondered if he was destined to fall behind.  Eventually, they too began to notice he was one of the leaders.  And, sure enough, he kept it up and landed what was only the fifth gold medal ever for his country.

So exciting!

Quote from: kphoger on July 25, 2021, 05:52:17 PM
Oh, man, what an exciting thing to see Ahmed Hafnaoui win the gold medal at 400m freestyle swimming!

Most people probably had their eyes on the American swimmers, or whoever else the commentators were talking about ahead of time.  But, because I'm weird, I was watching the Tunisian the whole time.  I didn't know he had barely made it into the finals, finishing 8th in the trials.  All I knew is that he was from Tunisia, and I thought that was kind of cool, so I was watching him.  He was out in front with the leaders pretty much the entire time.  Yet the commentators weren't talking about him at all.  I wondered why, wondered if he was destined to fall behind.  Eventually, they too began to notice he was one of the leaders.  And, sure enough, he kept it up and landed what was only the fifth gold medal ever for his country.

So exciting!

That was incredible. I was really happy for the kid.

Hidilyn Diaz won gold in women's 55kg weightlifting - it's the Philippines' first ever Olympic gold medal.

The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

"All-star teams fail because they rely solely on the individual's talent.  The (other teams) win because they take that talent and use it inside a system that's designed for the betterment of the team."

(Kurt Russell channeling Herb Brooks in Miracle)

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

USA playing below their talent level, turns out that you need to team to win not just good individual players.

Quote from: Bruce on July 09, 2021, 04:38:26 PMNBC has the games, but will likely butcher it as they've done in years past. Best to use a VPN and tune into a proper station like the CBC or BBC.

BBC coverage has been a lot poorer this year due to Discovery winning pan-European rights in 2016 (I went on a big rant about it, but saw they have this evening released this press release (https://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/articles/2021/olympic-games-moments) explaining their poorer coverage and rewrote this post) and channels like the BBC only managing to get rights for two live streams off Discovery, rather than the up-to-16-sports-at-any-one-time coverage they had at Rio and London.

And the limited, pick-and-mix live streams this time, naturally, take on a very Team GB-focused view as they don't have the footage to take their normal broader look at the wider games while also providing coverage of Team GB.

It's not like the BBC doesn't have the budget for giving a lot of money to Discovery to cover the Olympics properly - it's more that Discovery grudgingly let them have the rights that free-to-air TV is required by UK law to have, and no more. The BBC spent quite a bit of money (not in terms of rights, obviously, but in production) showing live televisual coverage of an under-16s friendly between Man U and Coleraine tonight - I doubt any one would care if they didn't have it, and it's not like there's not been an awful lot of sport on BBC TV this weekend - Formula E, live Cricket (for the first time in decades on the BBC), the Olympics (what they can show)...

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

Maybe if all of our best players decided to care then we'd win. I thought the loss to Nigeria in the warm-up game would wake them up, but no such luck. In a sport where the best team almost always comes out on top at the end of the season/tournament, it would be a huge failure for the United States to not win gold. The country with by far the best basketball history, by far the best league, and by far the most basketball players should be winning gold every time.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on July 26, 2021, 03:54:20 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

"All-star teams fail because they rely solely on the individual's talent.  The (other teams) win because they take that talent and use it inside a system that's designed for the betterment of the team."

(Kurt Russell channeling Herb Brooks in Miracle)

The premise of this statement is logical, but to say that all-star teams fail often is not true, especially in basketball. And "team chemistry" is pretty much a myth. "Good team chemistry" is also known as winning, and "bad team chemistry" is also known as losing. The one notable exception is the Pittsburgh Steelers over the last decade, who have won a lot of games but have always seemed to have poor chemistry. Results influence chemistry, not the other way around.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on July 26, 2021, 03:54:20 PM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

(channeling my inner Jeremy Lance on that one)

"All-star teams fail because they rely solely on the individual's talent.  The (other teams) win because they take that talent and use it inside a system that's designed for the betterment of the team."

(Kurt Russell channeling Herb Brooks in Miracle)

With the NBA season ending a month later than usual and being compressed into a shorter period of time, this was inevitable. Anybody whose team made it beyond the first round in the playoffs was going to be very unlikely to play. Even those who didn't still had fatigue issues.

This whole "team" concept has something to it. I have long believed that the United States' representative basketball team in the Olympics should be that year's NCAA Division 1 championship team, with the same roster as the team that won the title. In fact, I think this may have been the way it was done back in the 1940s. Wasn't one of the gold medal teams basically the Kentucky Wildcats with a few players from the Bartlesville, Okla. Phillips 66ers?

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 09:35:11 PM
This whole "team" concept has something to it. I have long believed that the United States' representative basketball team in the Olympics should be that year's NCAA Division 1 championship team, with the same roster as the team that won the title. In fact, I think this may have been the way it was done back in the 1940s. Wasn't one of the gold medal teams basically the Kentucky Wildcats with a few players from the Bartlesville, Okla. Phillips 66ers?

You get the right players on the squad and they'll play like a team. College teams would be overmatched.

I do think that USA Basketball needs to look more at guys who specialize at defense, rebounding and 3 point shooting and not just taking the biggest stars.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 09:35:11 PMThis whole "team" concept has something to it.

With the English football team doing well for the second tournament in a row, this "team rather than collection of stars" question was raised with members of the so-called 'Golden Generation' (who underperformed vs the hype) a couple of times during Euro 2020. The former players, now pundits, from that era denied that there were issues where club rivalries meant issues in the national team dressing room.

I think there were issues with selection and so on rather than egos clashing and team not being a team - which is probably true with the US mens basketball. Can coaches dare not select big names, even if it means an unbalanced team?

I remember England managers getting a lot of stick for playing Heskey rather than a bigger name forward with more goals, as England weren't scoring enough. But the purpose of playing Heskey was the club partnership with Heskey setting up Owen - Owen played nowhere near as good without Heskey, and Owen was a big name that couldn't be dropped without massive backlash as he scored loads of goals for his club. Play two of the forwards mentioned as replacements for Heskey instead of Heskey and Owen, and maybe England would have scored more. But you'd get a lot of stick.

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

In what event?

Pretend for a second that I don't already know what you're talking about.  Because I don't.

In the game I watched yesterday (as a replay), France lost to the USA.

Quote from: kphoger on July 27, 2021, 11:42:01 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 26, 2021, 02:04:16 PM
The USA lost to France!

In what event?

Pretend for a second that I don't already know what you're talking about.  Because I don't.

In the game I watched yesterday (as a replay), France lost to the USA.

The event was boîte du chat, a traditional French game where you open a box with a cat inside.

Hence both results.

Basketball.

Quote from: Big John on July 25, 2021, 01:26:42 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

No, since it would a "whole" part of the country.

Native Hawaiians are wanting that rule changed...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503)

Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 06:41:01 PM

Quote from: Big John on July 25, 2021, 01:26:42 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

No, since it would a "whole" part of the country.

Native Hawaiians are wanting that rule changed...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503)

Quote from: Team Hawaiian Kingdom? Activists want some U.S. Olympians to surf for a different homeland
Federico Lenzerini, an international law expert who submitted the petition to the IOC as an attorney representing the Hawaiian Kingdom National Olympic Committee, said the transfer of sovereignty between two independent authorities is "typically realized by treaty."  Otherwise, it has to be done "by prescription,"  or without protest from the people of the occupied territory. The Hawaiian Kingdom has never agreed to the occupation by the U.S.

"Consequently, our argument is that Hawaii's sovereignty has never been surrendered in a way that is valid under international law,"  he said.

I'm curious to know what other places that could apply to.

Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Simone Biles pulled out of the individual all-around final.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243)

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 11:03:32 AM
Simone Biles pulled out of the individual all-around final.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243)

A tough choice, I'm sure.  I have to wonder if, years from now, she'll regret the decision or be at peace with it.

Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 11:07:23 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 11:03:32 AM
Simone Biles pulled out of the individual all-around final.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/simone-biles-miss-individual-all-around-final-tokyo-olympics-n1275243)

A tough choice, I'm sure.  I have to wonder if, years from now, she'll regret the decision or be at peace with it.

Her performance at the vault was the straw that broke the camel's back. She got lost in the air.

To say the least, this has been a forgettable Olympics so far. A lot of us are probably looking forward to 2024 already...

Quote from: Henry on July 28, 2021, 11:43:02 AM
To say the least, this has been a forgettable Olympics so far. A lot of us are probably looking forward to 2024 already...

I'm not interested in the Olympics for the wow factor anyway.  Frankly, I think the Usain Bolt hype distracted from the games, for example.  So far, my family has enjoyed watching water polo, swimming, diving, volleyball, a bit of soccer and softball.  We're liking the games just fine.

As for swimming specifically, we've found the races for 2nd and 3rd place to be quite engaging in the races we've watched–even if there's a clear first place winner.  We've seen a lot of back-and-forth in the 2nd-through-4th places that have made it quite engaging to watch.

USA men's basketball kills Iran 120-66. Iran sucks so not a big accomplishment.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
USA men's basketball kills Iran 120-66. Iran sucks so not a big accomplishment.

Kind of like Cameroon not winning the World Cup, you mean?

Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 01:59:39 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 01:26:32 PM
USA men's basketball kills Iran 120-66. Iran sucks so not a big accomplishment.

Kind of like Cameroon not winning the World Cup, you mean?

Iran only has 1 former nba player.

Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 09:27:03 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 06:41:01 PM

Quote from: Big John on July 25, 2021, 01:26:42 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

No, since it would a "whole" part of the country.

Native Hawaiians are wanting that rule changed...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503)

Quote from: Team Hawaiian Kingdom? Activists want some U.S. Olympians to surf for a different homeland
Federico Lenzerini, an international law expert who submitted the petition to the IOC as an attorney representing the Hawaiian Kingdom National Olympic Committee, said the transfer of sovereignty between two independent authorities is "typically realized by treaty."  Otherwise, it has to be done "by prescription,"  or without protest from the people of the occupied territory. The Hawaiian Kingdom has never agreed to the occupation by the U.S.

"Consequently, our argument is that Hawaii's sovereignty has never been surrendered in a way that is valid under international law,"  he said.

I'm curious to know what other places that could apply to.

We have two Chinas competing. I bet a large amount of Russian Olympic Committee would want to be independent, and then you'd have places like Catalonia... too many major world powers have too many territories that have been unfavorably annexed to ever allow this to proceed.

Quote from: Alps on July 28, 2021, 06:41:39 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 28, 2021, 09:27:03 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 27, 2021, 06:41:01 PM

Quote from: Big John on July 25, 2021, 01:26:42 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 25, 2021, 12:38:13 PM
Could Puerto Rico theoretically keep it's team after becoming a state?

No, since it would a "whole" part of the country.

Native Hawaiians are wanting that rule changed...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/team-hawaiian-kingdom-activists-want-us-olympians-surf-different-homel-rcna1503)

Quote from: Team Hawaiian Kingdom? Activists want some U.S. Olympians to surf for a different homeland
Federico Lenzerini, an international law expert who submitted the petition to the IOC as an attorney representing the Hawaiian Kingdom National Olympic Committee, said the transfer of sovereignty between two independent authorities is "typically realized by treaty."  Otherwise, it has to be done "by prescription,"  or without protest from the people of the occupied territory. The Hawaiian Kingdom has never agreed to the occupation by the U.S.

"Consequently, our argument is that Hawaii's sovereignty has never been surrendered in a way that is valid under international law,"  he said.

I'm curious to know what other places that could apply to.

We have two Chinas competing. I bet a large amount of Russian Olympic Committee would want to be independent, and then you'd have places like Catalonia... too many major world powers have too many territories that have been unfavorably annexed to ever allow this to proceed.

Both Chinas are separate sovereign nations.

Not only are there two Chinas, but there's also a ROC, which is a form of China in every context except the Olympics.

Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2021, 08:02:53 PM
Not only are there two Chinas, but there's also a ROC, which is a form of China in every context except the Olympics.

Actually 4 Chinas then (Hong Kong and Macau).

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Lol.. they did complain but nobody listens.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 28, 2021, 08:01:43 PMBoth Chinas are separate sovereign nations.

Depends which one you ask...

Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2021, 08:02:53 PM
Not only are there two Chinas, but there's also a ROC, which is a form of China in every context except the Olympics.

Known by me as "Chinese Taipei" :bigass:. Yes, even outside the Olympics. Because it's not just Taiwan, even thought it makes up almost all the total area of the RoC. Jinmen/Kinmen and Mazu/Matsu aren't really part of Taiwan province, thus putting them in a paradox as they aren't part of neither "China" (i.e. the PRC) nor Taiwan.

Taiwanese Beijing

Here's a good description of how and why there are non-UN members at the Olympics:

https://www.polgeonow.com/2012/07/olympics-parade-of-nations.html

Ten overseas territories of countries, including three of the US, are grandfathered in after a 1995 rule that prohibited territories from competing separately.

Three nations: Taiwan, Palestine and Kosovo, are not UN members for various reasons but are de facto independent nations.

Due to a doping ban, Russia's country name, flag and anthem are banned and athletes are competing under the banner of the Russian Olympic Committee.

There is a refugee team, competing under the Olympic flag, of athletes who have no country for which to compete.

One country--Vatican City, has never competed in any Olympics.

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 29, 2021, 08:20:18 AM
One country--Vatican City, has never competed in any Olympics.

That's just disappointing. Surely at least one of those old cardinals is good at something athletic... :-P

Quote from: US 89 on July 29, 2021, 09:42:28 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 29, 2021, 08:20:18 AM
One country--Vatican City, has never competed in any Olympics.

That's just disappointing. Surely at least one of those old cardinals is good at something athletic... :-P

There's Olympic golf now, so get a couple of the youngest ones out on the course!

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Not only that, but Hawaii would have been one of the first counties to have been invaded and occupied by the Japanese Empire in the 1930s (think of how they would have been opposed if the USA's War and Navy Departments would have been limited to mainland west coast USA bases and ports).

The USA has been very, very good for Hawaii.

Mike

Quote from: 1 on July 28, 2021, 08:02:53 PM
Not only are there two Chinas, but there's also a ROC, which is a form of China in every context except the Olympics.

This keeps confusing me, too.  When I see "ROC" with no flag next to it, my first thought is always China.

Quote from: mgk920 on July 29, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Not only that, but Hawaii would have been one of the first counties to have been invaded and occupied by the Japanese Empire in the 1930s (think of how they would have been opposed if the USA's War and Navy Departments would have been limited to mainland west coast USA bases and ports).

The USA has been very, very good for Hawaii.

Mike

Heh.  "If you think we're bad, just look who you could have ended up with" is not the most compelling argument. :D

I do wonder what percentage of current residents are still wanting independence, though.

Quote from: mgk920 on July 29, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Not only that, but Hawaii would have been one of the first counties to have been invaded and occupied by the Japanese Empire in the 1930s (think of how they would have been opposed if the USA's War and Navy Departments would have been limited to mainland west coast USA bases and ports).

The USA has been very, very good for Hawaii.

Mike

Do you really think that could happen without US and UK interference, even if it wasn't a state   :-D... (not to mention they already controlled Pearl Harbor before they "annexed"  it.)
Anyway, I dont see a problem with Hawaii, Alaska, and the other colonies territories having separate teams.

Quote from: Rothman on July 29, 2021, 11:50:13 AM

Quote from: mgk920 on July 29, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Not only that, but Hawaii would have been one of the first counties to have been invaded and occupied by the Japanese Empire in the 1930s (think of how they would have been opposed if the USA's War and Navy Departments would have been limited to mainland west coast USA bases and ports).

The USA has been very, very good for Hawaii.

Mike

Heh.  "If you think we're bad, just look who you could have ended up with" is not the most compelling argument. :D

It works in other romantic relationships, so why not this one? :-D

Admittedly, I don't follow Olympic sports, and I actually had never heard of Simone Biles until the current controversy, but I think I saw today that the scoring system had been changed to hurt her because she was too good. Can that possibly be true? Wouldn't that be like raising the basketball goal a foot every time Manute Bol got the ball? You change the scoring for an individual athlete to make it harder for them to win?

Of course, I'm not crazy about competitions where the judging is subjective, rather than based on objective criteria such as the number of runs crossing the plate, the fastest time to run a certain distance, the farthest to throw a javelin, etc. But this just doesn't seem right.

Quote from: kenarmy on July 29, 2021, 11:58:17 AM

Quote from: mgk920 on July 29, 2021, 10:27:30 AM

Quote from: LM117 on July 28, 2021, 10:51:16 AM

Quote from: cabiness42 on July 28, 2021, 09:37:21 AM
Funny that Hawaii hasn't complained about being a part of the US over the past 100 years where American tourism has been the backbone of their economy, but now that there's a chance for Olympic recognition, suddenly the annexation was against their will.

Not to mention that if Hawaii was still independent right now, Russia and/or China would be knocking at their door. I'm not saying the US didn't pull any shady shit during the annexation, but if I were a native, I'd be pretty damn relieved to be part of the US right now.

If we followed their logic, there would be 50 different US Olympic teams. :pan:

Not only that, but Hawaii would have been one of the first counties to have been invaded and occupied by the Japanese Empire in the 1930s (think of how they would have been opposed if the USA's War and Navy Departments would have been limited to mainland west coast USA bases and ports).

The USA has been very, very good for Hawaii.

Mike

Do you really think that could happen without US and UK interference, even if it wasn't a state   :-D... (not to mention they already controlled Pearl Harbor before they "annexed"  it.)
Anyway, I dont see a problem with Hawaii, Alaska, and the other colonies territories having separate teams.

Split the US team into 50 different teams

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 29, 2021, 03:44:37 PM
Split the US team into 50 different teams

Because Delaware became part of the USA by hostile takeover?

Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2021, 03:49:38 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on July 29, 2021, 03:44:37 PM
Split the US team into 50 different teams

Because Delaware became part of the USA by hostile takeover?

Technically it used to belong to the Natives.

The latest on Simone Biles.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/what-are-twisties-simone-biles-explains-gymnastics-struggle-tokyo-olympics-n1275460 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/olympics/what-are-twisties-simone-biles-explains-gymnastics-struggle-tokyo-olympics-n1275460)

Quote from: kphoger on July 29, 2021, 11:14:41 AMThis keeps confusing me, too.  When I see "ROC" with no flag next to it, my first thought is always China.

Ditto (real China, not that CCCP-occupied version)

Quote from: hbelkins on July 29, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Admittedly, I don't follow Olympic sports, and I actually had never heard of Simone Biles until the current controversy, but I think I saw today that the scoring system had been changed to hurt her because she was too good. Can that possibly be true?

Its not, but because she typically competes on another level, the sport has struggled with where to set her moves on the difficulty level.

There is the perception that they have lowballed the difficulty of these moves as it is hard to work out how hard moves that only one person can actually do. They are still scored significantly higher than other routines, and Biles can rank highly, if not top, despite getting penalties and not great execution marks (as seen in qualifying, where she literally fell off the floor and still came second highest on that equipment despite the penalty for that alongside having one of the lower execution scores of those who qualified).

QuoteOf course, I'm not crazy about competitions where the judging is subjective, rather than based on objective criteria such as the number of runs crossing the plate, the fastest time to run a certain distance, the farthest to throw a javelin, etc. But this just doesn't seem right.

It's not subjective - there's perhaps room for interpretation, but there's mitigation of that. The difficulty ratings are pre-set and the competitors choose what moves they go for - arguably more objective than saying "I'll take x for $y" on Jeopardy, as you already know how difficult the move is and whether its worth that amount of points. Biles, if she wanted to, could play it safer and choose an easier difficulty routine that and execute it near flawlessly, rather than go big, get undermarked on the difficulty, and do it 'merely' alright.

And the execution marking is very objective stuff like "where the feet together, legs straight", etc.

Its no more subjective than "did the ball cross the line" in football* - which is something that the people judging it often find difficult to work out and there's subjective interpretations of video replays and the like despite the perfectly objective criteria. Earlier today the Australian women's Rugby Sevens team performed an illegal forward pass that lead to a scoring play and the refs missed it (though it didn't matter as they lost anyway) despite the judging criteria being perfectly objective. Even stuff where travelling a distance in the fastest time has objective rules and subjective judgements - eg Hamilton's racing penalty in the British Grand Prix. Javelins are judged on where the judges think they landed - again, objective criteria, subjective judgements.

*all kinds - and even the goal line technology in association football, which is as objective as possible, errs occasionally as it doesn't think the ball has crossed the line when it has. There was a case when it failed in the EPL.

Quote from: english si on July 30, 2021, 09:48:25 AM
(real China, not that CCCP-occupied version)

Do you mean CCP? CCCP is the Soviet Union.

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 09:52:58 AMDo you mean CCP? CCCP is the Soviet Union.

I did, but the former are only there because of the latter. The Split changed things, but just as they did in Eastern Europe post-WW2, the Soviets did the same in the Japanese Empire after it collapsed.

Quote from: english si on July 30, 2021, 09:48:25 AM

Quote from: hbelkins on July 29, 2021, 03:39:47 PM
Of course, I'm not crazy about competitions where the judging is subjective, rather than based on objective criteria such as the number of runs crossing the plate, the fastest time to run a certain distance, the farthest to throw a javelin, etc. But this just doesn't seem right.

It's not subjective - there's perhaps room for interpretation, but there's mitigation of that. The difficulty ratings are pre-set and the competitors choose what moves they go for - arguably more objective than saying "I'll take x for $y" on Jeopardy, as you already know how difficult the move is and whether its worth that amount of points. Biles, if she wanted to, could play it safer and choose an easier difficulty routine that and execute it near flawlessly, rather than go big, get undermarked on the difficulty, and do it 'merely' alright.

And the execution marking is very objective stuff like "where the feet together, legs straight", etc.

Its no more subjective than "did the ball cross the line" in football* - which is something that the people judging it often find difficult to work out and there's subjective interpretations of video replays and the like despite the perfectly objective criteria. Earlier today the Australian women's Rugby Sevens team performed an illegal forward pass that lead to a scoring play and the refs missed it (though it didn't matter as they lost anyway) despite the judging criteria being perfectly objective. Even stuff where travelling a distance in the fastest time has objective rules and subjective judgements - eg Hamilton's racing penalty in the British Grand Prix. Javelins are judged on where the judges think they landed - again, objective criteria, subjective judgements.

*all kinds - and even the goal line technology in association football, which is as objective as possible, errs occasionally as it doesn't think the ball has crossed the line when it has. There was a case when it failed in the EPL.

Just look at American football, which on the surface appears more 'objective' than gymnastics.  Yet how many rules are there about actually playing the game, and how many rules are there about penalties?  I'd argue that the penalties are at least as important as the actual game play.  And a lot of those penalties are subjective.

Or look at fouling in basketball.  Is that 'objective'?

Or how about that 'number of runs crossing the plate' sport–baseball?  Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

In practice, any pitch that hits the dirt before it gets to the catcher is scored a wild pitch.
Or if it's "just a bit outside":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_wc9JvTXGc

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

It's not automatic. The batter can still be put out if the catcher grabs the ball and throws it quickly enough.

Well, either way, it can be the difference between an out and a man on first.

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 02:15:04 PM
Well, either way, it can be the difference between an out and a man on first.

That's entirely determined by whether the catcher is quick enough. The call of a wild pitch means nothing.

The only thing subjective about an errant pitch is the determination of whether it's a wild pitch or a passed ball. One puts the blame on the pitcher; the other, the catcher.

The Polish Swimming Federation selected 23 members for its team -- but only 17 are allowed, so six were pulled off the team and sent home.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2021/07/20/poland-swimmers-sent-home-tokyo-olympics-country-sent-too-many/8023981002/

Now ten athletes from Nigeria have been bounced because the Athletics Federation of Nigeria screwed up and did not comply with drug testing requirements prior to the Games (no Nigerian athlete had actually tested positive).
https://www.bbc.com/sport/africa/58010359

Can you imagine training for years and then not being able to compete at all because of someone else's bureaucratic screwup?

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PMJust look at American football, which on the surface appears more 'objective' than gymnastics.  Yet how many rules are there about actually playing the game, and how many rules are there about penalties?  I'd argue that the penalties are at least as important as the actual game play.  And a lot of those penalties are subjective.

Certainly. My point, however, wasn't going for those more obviously subjective things, but rather pointing out that something that seems very not-up-for interpretation "has the ball crossed the line" is sometimes very subjective. There's often debate among the officials about whether its a first down, or were they an inch short - remeasuring it with the chain, looking at video evidence, etc.

The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

It's Equator without the E, right?

Quote from: Alps on August 01, 2021, 01:12:09 AM

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

It's Equator without the E, right?

It's pronounced like cutter.

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 01:16:18 AM

Quote from: Alps on August 01, 2021, 01:12:09 AM

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

It's Equator without the E, right?

It's pronounced like cutter.

https://medium.com/the-poleax/how-to-pronounce-qatar-a5ae748fdff6

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AMThe American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

BBC going with ka-ta with the stress on the ka (US-English puts the stress on the ta). Not quite the cutter suggested above above. More like catter.

Looking online, it seems like 'gutter' is more authentically Arabic. But English happily pronounces the 's' in Paris, or drop the -en of Antwerpen even though the natives of those places don't, so I don't know why the countries English name should use a 'g' rather than a 'k' sound. Certainly Qatar airlines ads that were on as they sponsored the EUROs used the same pronunciation as the BBC is.

And that high jump shared gold medal is something worthy of a prime time highlights of the day program (even factoring in NBC's apathy towards non-Americans), so there will be more mispronouncing it later!

Quote from: english si on August 01, 2021, 10:45:36 AM
BBC going with ka-ta with the stress on the ka (US-English puts the stress on the ta).

The only reason to drop the r at the end is if your own accent does so. There's nothing about Qatar itself that makes the r silent.

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 01:16:18 AM

Quote from: Alps on August 01, 2021, 01:12:09 AM

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

It's Equator without the E, right?

It's pronounced like cutter.

Not everyone pronounces it the same way–even Arabs.  I used to live with a guy from Saudi Arabia, whose hometown was only about 200 miles from the Qatar border, and he didn't pronounce it as "cutter".

https://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnastics/story/_/id/31939969/simone-biles-coming-back-compete-beam-finals

Simone Biles will compete in the balance beam finals

Quote from: kphoger on August 02, 2021, 01:40:13 PM

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 01:16:18 AM

Quote from: Alps on August 01, 2021, 01:12:09 AM

Quote from: Big John on August 01, 2021, 12:54:21 AM
The American announcers don't know how to pronounce Qatar.

It's Equator without the E, right?

It's pronounced like cutter.

Not everyone pronounces it the same way–even Arabs.  I used to live with a guy from Saudi Arabia, whose hometown was only about 200 miles from the Qatar border, and he didn't pronounce it as "cutter".

Yup, have a co-worker originally from the UAE and he pronounced it "Kuh-TAR". I asked him about actual pronunciation, and he replied that "it depends on where you're from".

Must be a local sibboleth (or is that shibboleth)...

I pronounce Qatar "Cutter".

Welcome Back, Qatar.

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2021, 01:10:39 PM
I pronounce Qatar "Cutter".

I suspect you're not an Arab.

Quote from: kphoger on August 03, 2021, 01:18:28 PM

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on August 03, 2021, 01:10:39 PM
I pronounce Qatar "Cutter".

I suspect you're not an Arab.

I'm not.

They say "kuh-TAR" on the Qatar Airways commercials, so I'll be going with that...

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

If there are 2 outs then it doesn't matter if 1st base is occupied...the batter can advance to first if a 3rd strike hits the ground and the catcher does not tag the batter or get a throw to 1st base in time.

If the batter makes it to first base safely from this, the pitcher and batter are both credited with a strikeout and a wild pitch is assessed to the pitcher or passed ball to the catcher depending upon the pitch itself.

I have seen once or twice a pitcher strike out 4 batters in an inning doing this.  There is technically no limit to how many times this can happen.  i have always wondered if anyone has 5 strikeouts in an inning as a pitcher.

It is also possible to get 6 hits in an inning without a run scoring and wonder if that has ever happened...

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:58:28 PM
If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

It's only ruled a wild pitch (or passed ball) based on the action of the batter/runners. If the batter is declared out before he reaches 1st base, and no advancement is made by any other runner, there's no wild pitch or passed ball called.  If the ball sails over the head of the catcher, or the catcher simply misses the ball, and the ball hits the backstop, bounces back to the catcher and the batter or runner can be thrown out, it's nothing more than a strikeout or caught stealing, based on the situation.

Quote from: Mapmikey on August 03, 2021, 03:05:56 PM
If there are 2 outs then it doesn't matter if 1st base is occupied...the batter can advance to first if a 3rd strike hits the ground and the catcher does not tag the batter or get a throw to 1st base in time.

If the batter makes it to first base safely from this, the pitcher and batter are both credited with a strikeout and a wild pitch is assessed to the pitcher or passed ball to the catcher depending upon the pitch itself.

What happens if the bases are loaded in such a circumstance?

Quote from: kphoger on August 03, 2021, 04:02:44 PM

Quote from: Mapmikey on August 03, 2021, 03:05:56 PM
If there are 2 outs then it doesn't matter if 1st base is occupied...the batter can advance to first if a 3rd strike hits the ground and the catcher does not tag the batter or get a throw to 1st base in time.

If the batter makes it to first base safely from this, the pitcher and batter are both credited with a strikeout and a wild pitch is assessed to the pitcher or passed ball to the catcher depending upon the pitch itself.

What happens if the bases are loaded in such a circumstance?

I've seen this.  Catcher only has to step on home plate.

Quote from: Mapmikey on August 03, 2021, 03:05:56 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

If there are 2 outs then it doesn't matter if 1st base is occupied...the batter can advance to first if a 3rd strike hits the ground and the catcher does not tag the batter or get a throw to 1st base in time.

If the batter makes it to first base safely from this, the pitcher and batter are both credited with a strikeout and a wild pitch is assessed to the pitcher or passed ball to the catcher depending upon the pitch itself.

I have seen once or twice a pitcher strike out 4 batters in an inning doing this.  There is technically no limit to how many times this can happen.  i have always wondered if anyone has 5 strikeouts in an inning as a pitcher.

It is also possible to get 6 hits in an inning without a run scoring and wonder if that has ever happened...

It is not possible to get 6 hits in an inning, because 3 hits load the bases, you could pick off players to get 2 outs and reload with 2 more hits, but the next at bat can't be a hit without scoring a run because every base is a force.


Also: https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/five-strikeouts-in-one-inning-how-charlestons-malcolm-van-buren-did-the-impossible/article_c7ea925c-b53b-11e9-87c3-03c636404bdd.html

From watching the coverage of BMX racing, I have learned something:  The only thing funnier than a Brit trying to pronounce Spanish names is a New Zealander trying to pronounce Spanish names.

Quote from: Alps on August 04, 2021, 12:36:46 AM

Quote from: Mapmikey on August 03, 2021, 03:05:56 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:58:28 PM

Quote from: 1 on July 30, 2021, 01:32:26 PM

Quote from: kphoger on July 30, 2021, 01:29:55 PM
Tell me, what is the definition of a 'wild pitch'?  According to the MLB definition, it is one 'so errant that the catcher is unable to control it and, as a result, baserunner(s) advance'.  If a pitch is intentionally thrown low into the dirt, then that pitch being 'wild' or not depends on how well the catcher can field it.  This is all rather squirrelly, as it can mean the difference between an out and an advance to first base.  But, of course, that's OK, because sports have subjectivity built in.

This only affects statistics. The baserunners can run at any time, but they risk getting out if they do so at a time when it only delays the catcher for a second or two.

If it's on the third strike, and nobody is on first base, then doesn't the batter get to advance to first base if the pitch is declared 'wild', even though it's called a strike?

If there are 2 outs then it doesn't matter if 1st base is occupied...the batter can advance to first if a 3rd strike hits the ground and the catcher does not tag the batter or get a throw to 1st base in time.

If the batter makes it to first base safely from this, the pitcher and batter are both credited with a strikeout and a wild pitch is assessed to the pitcher or passed ball to the catcher depending upon the pitch itself.

I have seen once or twice a pitcher strike out 4 batters in an inning doing this.  There is technically no limit to how many times this can happen.  i have always wondered if anyone has 5 strikeouts in an inning as a pitcher.

It is also possible to get 6 hits in an inning without a run scoring and wonder if that has ever happened...

It is not possible to get 6 hits in an inning, because 3 hits load the bases, you could pick off players to get 2 outs and reload with 2 more hits, but the next at bat can't be a hit without scoring a run because every base is a force.


Also: https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/five-strikeouts-in-one-inning-how-charlestons-malcolm-van-buren-did-the-impossible/article_c7ea925c-b53b-11e9-87c3-03c636404bdd.html

Ah but there is this:

Get the 5 hits just like you describe.

So the player batting with 2 outs and bases loaded does the following:  Hits a ball that strikes one of the runners in fair territory.  By rule, the runner is out and the batter is credited with a hit.


It might be possible to get 6 walks without scoring a run, too:  what would happen if after ball 4 on the 6th one, one of the runners sprinted past another before the runner on 3rd reached home (this is an absurdity thought exercise that would essentially require the runner on 2nd forgetting there were 2 outs, not running on a 3-2 pitch and the runner from 1st sprinting right on past the 2nd base runner).

In practice, I'm not entirely clear if I've ever seen even 4 hits in an inning without a run... 

Thanks for the citation on the 5 strikeouts in an inning.

modified to add, then remove 2nd 6-hit scenario after thinking about it more

Earlier, I was thinking that volleyball was a pretty un-subjective sport.  But then I watched the men's USA vs Argentina match.  An Argentine player went way back to try and save the ball and, in doing so, tripped over the benches.  Play stopped, as it would have stopped if someone had injured an ankle on the court.  The two commentators couldn't agree on whether play should have stopped or not.  One of them said that, since nobody was actually injured and play stoppage isn't in the rules anyway, the game should have continued–same as if the player had just tripped on his shoelaces rather than over the benches–in which case possession should have gone to the US team with Argentina being a man down till he got back into position.

Every sport has some rules that are subjective, otherwise sports wouldn't need officials.

However, gymnastics and figure skating are sports where your actual score is decided by judges. There are no panels of judges deciding how many points to award for a Grand Slam.

Chess has only one subjective rule, and that is that you can't try to win by forcing your opponent to run out of time.

Quote from: 1 on August 04, 2021, 06:07:27 PM
Chess has only one subjective rule, and that is that you can't try to win by forcing your opponent to run out of time.

That's not subjective. Once you make your move, if you interfere with your opponent's ability to move a piece or hit the clock, that's interference. You can't force your opponent to run out of time without taking an objective action.

If the result of this discussion is that chess is a sport but ice skating is not, then–well, then, we need to start all over.

Quote from: kphoger on August 05, 2021, 10:14:25 AM
If the result of this discussion is that chess is a sport but ice skating is not, then–well, then, we need to start all over.

Or have Olympic chess matches in 2024...

I don't know how (human) judges deciding the winner in any sport is still a thing in 2021. It's really dumb. If anything just get robots to do the judging to ensure that there is absolutely no bias.

So after the US won gold in 2018 in men's curling, a sport dominated by Canada, Canada won gold in 2021 in women's soccer, a sport dominated by the US.

I don't understand this world anymore.

Quote from: thspfc on August 06, 2021, 12:23:41 PM
I don't know how (human) judges deciding the winner in any sport is still a thing in 2021. It's really dumb. If anything just get robots to do the judging to ensure that there is absolutely no bias.

But then we'd miss all the moves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9mxkNuOpCo).

When I was in high school, I used to go participate in music performance competitions.  Some aspects of playing music can be judged objectively:  did you play in tune, did you obey dynamic markings, were your notes and rests the proper length?  But a lot of it is subjective.  For example, did you vary your dynamics and tempo, were those variances subtle or dramatic, and were they appropriate for the piece of music?  In the quiet sections, could your playing be characterized as feeble or tender?  In the loud sections, as brash or strong?

And, for a band, orchestra, or smaller ensemble, there were similar objective criteria, but other subjective criteria came into play.  For example, did the ensemble do a good job of bringing out an interesting musical line by having everyone else backing off a bit?  Was the instrumentation appropriate for the piece, or were there just too many people playing first trumpet but not enough playing third trumpet?  And so on.

The judges scored us on the objective stuff, but there was also a lot of subjectivity involved.  I think most people understand that this is the way it has to be, because music is a form of art, art is characterized by beauty and emotion, and beauty and emotion are inherently subjective.  But what if sport also touches on art?  What if there is beauty and emotion in the actions of the athletes?

Such was certainly the belief of the ancient Greeks, on whose shoulders is supposed to rest the foundation of these modern Olympic games.  In ancient Greece, athletes trained at the gymnasium.  The root of that word is gymnos, which means nude, as athletes both trained and competed in the nude.  This was so people could appreciate the natural beauty of the human form at its finest, so people could clearly see men striving for the heights of physical achievement, as befitted the gods under whose patronage the games were held.  This appreciation–bordering on reverence or even worship–of the male human form is the same phenomenon that prompted so much of Greek sculpture [example (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arte_greca,_giovane_vittorioso,_300-100_ac._02.JPG)] to focus on the same.

Thus, gymnastics–with the same etymology as that described above–is a sport not to be judged merely on such objective criteria as crossing a line first or hitting a target, but also on things like grace, poise, form, expression, and beauty.  Does the lady on the balance beam move between elements with fluidity, or are her movements mechanical, robotic?  Similarly, as the synchronized divers get into a handstand at the edge of the platform, do their arms quiver and tremble, or do they exhibit strength and ease?  Are the figure skaters embracing and releasing with emotive passion as they perform their routine, or do they appear cold and aloof?

These things, from the perspective of an ancient Greek, would likely be just as important as the technical, objective aspects of the sport.  Therefore, I'd suggest, there is no better place in the sports world to appreciate them than at the Olympic games.

Seen on Imgur:

"Every four years the triathlon should be a different combo of three Olympic sports drawn out of a hat at the opening ceremony.

"Hold it the last day of the Olympics, and any athlete from any sport can enter.  Winner extinguishes the flame."

Quote from: wanderer2575 on August 09, 2021, 09:49:21 PM
Seen on Imgur:

"Every four years the triathlon should be a different combo of three Olympic sports drawn out of a hat at the opening ceremony.

"Hold it the last day of the Olympics, and any athlete from any sport can enter.  Winner extinguishes the flame."

I would watch that.

Quote from: wanderer2575 on August 09, 2021, 09:49:21 PM
Seen on Imgur:

"Every four years the triathlon should be a different combo of three Olympic sports drawn out of a hat at the opening ceremony.

"Hold it the last day of the Olympics, and any athlete from any sport can enter.  Winner extinguishes the flame."

Also, javelin catching would be more entertaining than javelin throwing.

Pushing the issue of subjectivity in the Olympics even further...

The modern Olympic Games were founded in 1896, and the founder had it as his intention that art competitions would be a part of the games.  From 1912 through 1948, they were a part of the Olympics.  This was totally in keeping with ancient Greek cultural values.

Here's a breakdown I made of all the gold medalists:

(https://i.imgur.com/eFINUqO.png)

Why is Germany GER and not DEU? The Netherlands appear to be in their local language (NED, not NET).

Quote from: 1 on August 10, 2021, 10:57:00 AM
Why is Germany GER and not DEU? The Netherlands appear to be in their local language (NED, not NET).

Most of them are based on French (note that Morocco is MAR), but you don't notice because the code also works for English.  NED is indeed based on the Dutch name for the country, but that's far from the norm (and used to be HOL).  Finland is FIN, Japan is JPN, Denmark is DEN, Croatia is CRO, Sweden is SWE, etc, etc:  none of these lines up with the native language.

Quote from: kphoger on August 10, 2021, 11:20:09 AM
Denmark is DAN

This one lines up.

Quote from: 1 on August 10, 2021, 11:22:00 AM

Quote from: kphoger on August 10, 2021, 11:20:09 AM
Denmark is DAN

This one lines up.

Edited.  The IOC code is actually DEN.

Quote from: kphoger on August 10, 2021, 10:44:16 AMThe modern Olympic Games were founded in 1896, and the founder had it as his intention that art competitions would be a part of the games.  From 1912 through 1948, they were a part of the Olympics.  This was totally in keeping with ancient Greek cultural values.

Here's a breakdown I made of all the gold medalists:

Must have been really annoying to be an entrant in a year where they felt nothing was worthy of the gold, and so the best entrant only got a silver (or a bronze)!

I believe that there had to be a sporting theme to the work submitted in most (all?) those categories. Which made it difficult to get entries.

Quote from: 1 on August 01, 2021, 10:59:44 AMThe only reason to drop the r at the end is if your own accent does so. There's nothing about Qatar itself that makes the r silent.

I didn't drop the r, or make it silent, just deployed it differently than you would. The two 'a' sounds in Qatar are different in the BBC pronunciation, due to one having an 'r' as part of it - as I said "ka-ta" sounding similar to "catter". Perhaps it would have been better to write it k'-ta. The difficulties of trying to spell out a sound in a non-phonetic language (and trying to do it how it would sound to the US audience of my post's ears, rather than to my UK ears)!

You can throw in an over-pronounced 'r' if your accent does that, but there's nothing in the Arabic, AFAICS, that requires doing so.

Did I read correctly somewhere that the competition for music didn't actually include the music being played?  Like the judges only had sheet music to look at and decide a winner.
Televise that!

Quote from: triplemultiplex on August 10, 2021, 03:43:54 PM
Did I read correctly somewhere that the competition for music didn't actually include the music being played?  Like the judges only had sheet music to look at and decide a winner.
Televise that!

That's generally how music composition competitions work.

Back in the 1990s, I won the Kansas statewide piano composition contest on two occasions–once at the junior high level and once at the high school level.  The way it worked is that each entrant submitted a copy of the manuscript and a recording on cassette tape.  We were not judged on how well we played the piece we had written:  rather, the recording was just for the judges to hear how the music sounded as they followed along reading the manuscript.  In other words, we were judged on the piece of music we had written, not on our performance of that piece.  After the winners had been announced (not before), those winners were invited to perform our music.  The first time I won, we performed at one of the universities, with family members and university staff and the judges and whoever else in attendance.  The second time I won, we performed at the mall in Manhattan–on Halloween, which was rather strange, with people milling around and some of them in costume.  I recall that Santa Claus was nearby, too.  That last was an odd performance atmosphere, as there wasn't really an 'audience' per se–just people coming and going and the general white noise of a slow evening at the mall–and upon leaving I didn't really consider it worth the nearly-300-mile drive (each way) from my hometown.

The judges could just as easily have given the music to someone else and had them play it, and then we wouldn't have had to submit a cassette tape at all.

That's as subjective as it gets.

Quote from: Rothman on August 10, 2021, 11:35:20 PM
That's as subjective as it gets.

Exactly my point.  Subjectivity has been a part of the modern Olympic games since their inception.