Interstate 15 north of Barstow to the State Line

[michravera]

One other factor limiting I-15 traffic volumes north of Barstow, at least at the beginnings of weekends, is the afternoon traffic jam going up Cajon Pass. Most of that traffic is only going as far as Victorville and other exurbs. It still means a lot of cars heading to LV, but I think a lot of the problems north of Barstow are exasperated by drivers having different thoughts of the proper speed to drive on I-15.

The problem between Vegas and Barstow (and, for that matter on to Victorville) is that people come to Vegas on their own schedule, but everyone leaves on Sunday! ... and I-15 to CASR-58 is basically the only way from Vegas to most of California.

[Max Rockatansky]

One other factor limiting I-15 traffic volumes north of Barstow, at least at the beginnings of weekends, is the afternoon traffic jam going up Cajon Pass. Most of that traffic is only going as far as Victorville and other exurbs. It still means a lot of cars heading to LV, but I think a lot of the problems north of Barstow are exasperated by drivers having different thoughts of the proper speed to drive on I-15.

The problem between Vegas and Barstow (and, for that matter on to Victorville) is that people come to Vegas on their own schedule, but everyone leaves on Sunday! ... and I-15 to CASR-58 is basically the only way from Vegas to most of California.

I'm kind of surprised more people from Los Angeles don't try the Death Valley-Panamint Valley through Trona to get towards CA 14 via Garlock Road.  It totally works as an alternate but you have to have a working knowledge of some non-State Highways given a GPS will never decide on said cutoff.

[ilpt4u]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

[ilpt4u]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

[Alps]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Australia had a one-way freeway for many years.

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

While I can see where you are going I've been running under the assumption that eventually the pressure on California to accommodate what Las Vegas wants with I-15 will eventually prevail.  There is simply too much money and commerce moving on the corridor of I-15 north of Barstow to ignore forever.  If CA 58 east of Bakersfield can get a full four lanes and most of CA 99 can get rebuilt then there is hope for I-15.

[roadfro]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

[DenverBrian]

This is the sort of comment that almost certainly belongs in Fictional, but if there is that much traffic between SoCal and Vegas, obviously with travelers with $$$ for a weekend of fun...Why hasn't any Public and/or Private Interests funded a Toll Road/Turnpike parallel to I-15 from the CA/NV state line to at least Barstow? Or even from the state line and following a more southerly route to get to I-40 SW of Vegas?

I'm sure there are limited places to cross the mountains, but if a parallel Toll Road has the traffic volumes because the free alternative is way overcapacity, why is there no "Alternate"  proposals out there, other than the High Speed Train?

Toll road: Hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars; would require acquisition of right of way that would take years, if not decades.

Add a lane to I-15: Tens of millions of dollars. ROW already exists. In most places, there's plenty of existing level ground at the freeway without blasting any rock. At the very least, add a couple more uphill truck lanes in a couple of spots - the freeway between the state line and Barstow already has a few of these.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is the sort of comment that almost certainly belongs in Fictional, but if there is that much traffic between SoCal and Vegas, obviously with travelers with $$$ for a weekend of fun...Why hasn't any Public and/or Private Interests funded a Toll Road/Turnpike parallel to I-15 from the CA/NV state line to at least Barstow? Or even from the state line and following a more southerly route to get to I-40 SW of Vegas?

I'm sure there are limited places to cross the mountains, but if a parallel Toll Road has the traffic volumes because the free alternative is way overcapacity, why is there no "Alternate"  proposals out there, other than the High Speed Train?

Toll road: Hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of dollars; would require acquisition of right of way that would take years, if not decades.

Add a lane to I-15: Tens of millions of dollars. ROW already exists. In most places, there's plenty of existing level ground at the freeway without blasting any rock. At the very least, add a couple more uphill truck lanes in a couple of spots - the freeway between the state line and Barstow already has a few of these.

I'd say adding a lane each way would likely cost north of a hundred mil but while they're at it ideally just reconstruct the entire freeway to concrete and replace bridges. Spend a couple billion on it so you don't have to touch it for half a century at least. That includes four lanes each way on incline and declines for trucks. One can dream but I'd be thrilled if it was at least 3 lanes each way.

[DenverBrian]

I'd say adding a lane each way would likely cost north of a hundred mil but while they're at it ideally just reconstruct the entire freeway to concrete and replace bridges. Spend a couple billion on it so you don't have to touch it for half a century at least. That includes four lanes each way on incline and declines for trucks. One can dream but I'd be thrilled if it was at least 3 lanes each way.

It would certainly be much cheaper than trying to construct a separate tollway through the area.

[nexus73]

Plutonic Panda's approach strikes me as the correct one. 

Rick

[ilpt4u]

Plutonic Panda's approach strikes me as the correct one. 

Rick

It certainly is...but someone has to convince CalTrans of that

A separate, alternate Tollway is merely a mental exercise on the assumption that CalTrans will throw its foot down and refuse to upgrade/widen I-15 between Nevada and Barstow, which they have done to this point

[Occidental Tourist]

Plutonic Panda's approach strikes me as the correct one. 

Rick

Ditto.

[jdbx]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Southbound, it would be about 5¾ miles of widening needed between the state line and where it opens up to at least 3 lanes just before the ag checkpoint.  After the ag checkpoint, it is 3 lanes for the next 9 miles until the other side of Mountain Pass.  That 5 ¾ mile gap would probably be the easiest starting point towards the improvement of this route.

[michravera]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Southbound, it would be about 5¾ miles of widening needed between the state line and where it opens up to at least 3 lanes just before the ag checkpoint.  After the ag checkpoint, it is 3 lanes for the next 9 miles until the other side of Mountain Pass.  That 5 ¾ mile gap would probably be the easiest starting point towards the improvement of this route.

The Ag station, as others have mentioned, serves as a natural metering station. It seems, as an interim measure, if I know the terrain as I think that I do, "OK TO DRIVE ON SHOULDER SUNDAYS (AND MONDAY HOLIDAYS) 10:00-17:00" sign for that section would provide great relief.... Add a couple of "SHOULDER LANE MUST EXIT" signs and we're there.

[heynow415]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Southbound, it would be about 5¾ miles of widening needed between the state line and where it opens up to at least 3 lanes just before the ag checkpoint.  After the ag checkpoint, it is 3 lanes for the next 9 miles until the other side of Mountain Pass.  That 5 ¾ mile gap would probably be the easiest starting point towards the improvement of this route.

The Ag station, as others have mentioned, serves as a natural metering station. It seems, as an interim measure, if I know the terrain as I think that I do, "OK TO DRIVE ON SHOULDER SUNDAYS (AND MONDAY HOLIDAYS) 10:00-17:00" sign for that section would provide great relief.... Add a couple of "SHOULDER LANE MUST EXIT" signs and we're there.

Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.  Shoulders typically don't have the same structural section (pavement and subbase depth) as the mainline roadway since they were not intended to be driven on constantly, particularly by trucks; they're also usually narrower than a standard lane.  This arose recently in my neck of the woods with a proposal to use the freeway shoulder as a rush hour bus lane.  Caltrans and CHP typically don't like to lose a shoulder since they provide a place for disabled vehicles to get out of the way and also a "lane" for incident response.  With I-15, if you end up having to reconstruct the shoulders and factoring in the costs that go along with that, it's probably better to just bite the bullet and build the third lane since real estate in the median is plentiful.  For that corridor, other than some small bridge and culvert widenings, it's likely a pretty straightforward paving project.

[michravera]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Southbound, it would be about 5¾ miles of widening needed between the state line and where it opens up to at least 3 lanes just before the ag checkpoint.  After the ag checkpoint, it is 3 lanes for the next 9 miles until the other side of Mountain Pass.  That 5 ¾ mile gap would probably be the easiest starting point towards the improvement of this route.

The Ag station, as others have mentioned, serves as a natural metering station. It seems, as an interim measure, if I know the terrain as I think that I do, "OK TO DRIVE ON SHOULDER SUNDAYS (AND MONDAY HOLIDAYS) 10:00-17:00" sign for that section would provide great relief.... Add a couple of "SHOULDER LANE MUST EXIT" signs and we're there.

Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.  Shoulders typically don't have the same structural section (pavement and subbase depth) as the mainline roadway since they were not intended to be driven on constantly, particularly by trucks; they're also usually narrower than a standard lane.  This arose recently in my neck of the woods with a proposal to use the freeway shoulder as a rush hour bus lane.  Caltrans and CHP typically don't like to lose a shoulder since they provide a place for disabled vehicles to get out of the way and also a "lane" for incident response.  With I-15, if you end up having to reconstruct the shoulders and factoring in the costs that go along with that, it's probably better to just bite the bullet and build the third lane since real estate in the median is plentiful.  For that corridor, other than some small bridge and culvert widenings, it's likely a pretty straightforward paving project.

OK: "VEHICLES LESS THAN 3 TONS MAY USE SHOULDER ...". As I said "an interim measure". It won't work forever because we'd have cars passing trucks on the right, etc.
The big problem with a paving project is that it typically reduces capacity during the widening. I don't think that a contractor could get the whole thing done between MLK Day and Presidents' Day (because you can't count on the whether at that time of year), maybe some years between Presidents' Day and traditional Spring Break (whether would be better then, also). If you think that it could be done in 3 or 4 weeks, I'd wonder why it hasn't been done already. Any other time of year or longer duration and things get badly disrupted.

What typically happens is that they end up building a third carriageway unto which to route the traffic while they are widening. This adds quite a lot to the cost -- Not just materials, but work effort.


Mod Edit: Fixed quotes –Roadfro

[skluth]

I'm about to go off the Fictional Deep end...so would a Tolling interest ever consider building a One Way Toll Road? If the issue is only SW-bound out of Vegas to SoCal...how about a One Way potential solution?

Unlikely.  Nevada isn't the problem pertaining to expansion of I-15, it's just California.  The real issue is Barstow-Nevada State Line.

Exactly. And SW direction is the problem, in California, generally on Sundays or the end of long Holiday weekends. A One Way solution would be cheaper and would require less "space"  to sneak around/thru/under a mountain, completely hypothetically speaking

The problem is all because I-15 is 3 Lanes in Nevada, but the third lane drops at Primm right before the state line. I wonder if it would help if CalTrans widened I-15 southbound just to the agriculture checkpoint–that's a natural choke point anyway, and if they actually stopped passenger cars then it would act somewhat as a meter feeding back in to two lanes.

Southbound, it would be about 5¾ miles of widening needed between the state line and where it opens up to at least 3 lanes just before the ag checkpoint.  After the ag checkpoint, it is 3 lanes for the next 9 miles until the other side of Mountain Pass.  That 5 ¾ mile gap would probably be the easiest starting point towards the improvement of this route.

The Ag station, as others have mentioned, serves as a natural metering station. It seems, as an interim measure, if I know the terrain as I think that I do, "OK TO DRIVE ON SHOULDER SUNDAYS (AND MONDAY HOLIDAYS) 10:00-17:00" sign for that section would provide great relief.... Add a couple of "SHOULDER LANE MUST EXIT" signs and we're there.

Unfortunately, it's probably not that simple.  Shoulders typically don't have the same structural section (pavement and subbase depth) as the mainline roadway since they were not intended to be driven on constantly, particularly by trucks; they're also usually narrower than a standard lane.  This arose recently in my neck of the woods with a proposal to use the freeway shoulder as a rush hour bus lane.  Caltrans and CHP typically don't like to lose a shoulder since they provide a place for disabled vehicles to get out of the way and also a "lane" for incident response.  With I-15, if you end up having to reconstruct the shoulders and factoring in the costs that go along with that, it's probably better to just bite the bullet and build the third lane since real estate in the median is plentiful.  For that corridor, other than some small bridge and culvert widenings, it's likely a pretty straightforward paving project.

OK: "VEHICLES LESS THAN 3 TONS MAY USE SHOULDER ...". As I said "an interim measure". It won't work forever because we'd have cars passing trucks on the right, etc.
The big problem with a paving project is that it typically reduces capacity during the widening. I don't think that a contractor could get the whole thing done between MLK Day and Presidents' Day (because you can't count on the whether at that time of year), maybe some years between Presidents' Day and traditional Spring Break (whether would be better then, also). If you think that it could be done in 3 or 4 weeks, I'd wonder why it hasn't been done already. Any other time of year or longer duration and things get badly disrupted.

What typically happens is that they end up building a third carriageway unto which to route the traffic while they are widening. This adds quite a lot to the cost -- Not just materials, but work effort.

Caltrans is allowing Richard Branson to run his rail to Las Vegas in the median. The median is wide, but I don't think it's wide enough to accommodate two new lanes and a high-speed rail line. The highway would need to be widened outside the current highway, though the ROW shouldn't be a problem once out of the immediate Barstow-Yermo area.

[fungus]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

[Max Rockatansky]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Those are not something that would be a ton of fun at night given how many potholes are on the paved roads in the Mojave Preserve.  The state of repair for much of the rural roads in San Bernardino County is very low.  One would be better off just heading out to US 95 if they wanted a more comfortable trip getting to I-40.

[skluth]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Those are not something that would be a ton of fun at night given how many potholes are on the paved roads in the Mojave Preserve.  The state of repair for much of the rural roads in San Bernardino County is very low.  One would be better off just heading out to US 95 if they wanted a more comfortable trip getting to I-40.

I agree it would not be wise to drive through the Mojave Preserve after dark. However, Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road doesn't avoid the southbound problem of avoiding the miles of I-15 before the Ag Station so it doesn't solve the worst of the I-15 traffic southbound. It is a relaxing drive though; it's the way Coachella Valley residents use to get to LV (via Amboy and 29 Palms).

[fungus]

Supposedly, there was repaving recently. I have not driven through the preserve in the last few years so don't know how bad it is. This is a great route solo but I generally don't like subjecting guests to aggressive two lane road driving.
https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/traffic/2016/12/25/mojave-desert-las-vegas/95839918/

[Alps]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Would you be willing to map this out for a non-local to see which roads?

[roadfro]

I have taken the route through the Mojave desert (Nipton, Ivanpah, Morning Star Mine, Kelso-Cima, Kelbaker Road to I-40) and while it may not be much faster, it is generally much less frustrating and annoying.

Would you be willing to map this out for a non-local to see which roads?

This appears to be the route–and assuming it's a Vegas to SoCal trip, it would include a backtrack on I-40 to Barstow and I-15.

It seems like this might not be as beneficial now as it probably was before the I-15 CA agriculture inspection station moved north of the Nipton Road exit. But I admittedly haven't ever been in any of that heavy southbound weekend/holiday traffic snarl to know whether this detour might be worth it between the ag station and Barstow.