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Why can't people merge onto an interstate properly anymore?

Started by Crash_It, May 02, 2021, 02:49:31 PM

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kphoger

Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Given that, the Illinois statute that defines it ... the BMW driver is totally at fault.

What statute?  The one we've already quoted on here that says it's the responsibility of both drivers?
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


kphoger

Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
... as well as what this cop that I know personally says (who.. By the way is the top cop in Lake County) ...

Cops get it wrong sometimes.  I once received an e-mailed apology from the deputy chief of police in Wheaton, because a cop had gotten the law wrong and I e-mailed the department later to ask what I did wrong.  (Might have been DuPage County, can't remember for sure if it was a local cop or a sheriff.)
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

webny99

Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Plus, I've taken that onramp in cars that are weaker than my current one and have not had an issue with getting up to speed. There simply was no reason for that BMW to be going so slowly and then braking other than just flat out not knowing how to drive.

I think what we're saying is that the BMW driver's skills don't really matter because it takes two drivers to create conflict. This was an entirely avoidable situation that both parties are equally responsible for not taking action to prevent.

And if you really want to shift blame in one direction or the other, shift it in the direction of the guy who had the greater number of options, including the option of moving left to accommodate entering traffic.

kphoger

The BMW driver braked because you had forced him into a corner.  Push came to shove, and so he did the defensive thing by braking.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

interstatefan990

Stuff like this is why I avoid the right lane at all times on 6+ lane freeways unless I'm within 3 miles of my exit.

As for who's responsible, my personal opinion is that Crash_It should have slowed down and not inched up to the BMW's bumper like that. You can be right, or be dead right. About the only thing the other driver did wrong was not use his turn signal. Regardless of whether or not you have the right-of-way (which in this case neither driver did under IL law), it is your responsibility to ensure that merging traffic can enter the freeway smoothly and without conflict. If you had simply slowed down even 5 MPH to allow the BMW space to merge, none of this would have happened. You need to learn how to judge safe gaps and distances, and more importantly, anticipate what is going to happen. You knew that sedan was coming in one way or the other, right? So you need to make room for them, even if you "have the right-of-way". And also, that angry pass afterwards is childish behavior. Don't do that.

This isn't the worst of the worst of driving mistakes, but don't get all worked up over what everyone is saying on here, and instead take some time to learn how to better manage freeway driving.
Multi-lane roundabouts are an abomination to mankind.

vdeane

Around here, merging on to the freeway at 40 mph and only later speeding up to freeway speeds is extremely common.  Is it right?  No.  Is it something to be expected, to the point where acting like it never happens would be flagrantly irresponsible?  Yes.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

hbelkins

Three observations:

1. I'll bet he gets told he's number one by a lot of other drivers.

2. I wonder how his videos would have been received on rec.autos.driving back in its heyday. There was lots of bleedover from r.a.d to m.t.r in those days. I remember Arif Khokar as being one person who took a lot of flack over his posts about his driving style.

3. The more I read about adaptive cruse control, the more I'm convinced I don't ever want it. I love regular cruise control as a means of maintaining a relatively-constant speed on the open road. Having a sensor system adjusting my speed on its own to conform to certain predetermined vehicle spacing parameters isn't what I want cruise control for. I'm capable of braking on my own.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Crash_It

Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Plus, I've taken that onramp in cars that are weaker than my current one and have not had an issue with getting up to speed. There simply was no reason for that BMW to be going so slowly and then braking other than just flat out not knowing how to drive.

I think what we're saying is that the BMW driver's skills don't really matter because it takes two drivers to create conflict. This was an entirely avoidable situation that both parties are equally responsible for not taking action to prevent.

And if you really want to shift blame in one direction or the other, shift it in the direction of the guy who had the greater number of options, including the option of moving left to accommodate entering traffic.

You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault. If he hadn't clashed with me, he would've done so with others because of his unlawfully slow speed.

Crash_It

Quote from: vdeane on May 05, 2021, 12:47:01 PM
Around here, merging on to the freeway at 40 mph and only later speeding up to freeway speeds is extremely common.  Is it right?  No.  Is it something to be expected, to the point where acting like it never happens would be flagrantly irresponsible?  Yes.

I know it happens all the time which is why normally I'm in the second from right lane unless I have to exit soon... such was the case here

webny99

Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Plus, I've taken that onramp in cars that are weaker than my current one and have not had an issue with getting up to speed. There simply was no reason for that BMW to be going so slowly and then braking other than just flat out not knowing how to drive.

I think what we're saying is that the BMW driver's skills don't really matter because it takes two drivers to create conflict. This was an entirely avoidable situation that both parties are equally responsible for not taking action to prevent.

And if you really want to shift blame in one direction or the other, shift it in the direction of the guy who had the greater number of options, including the option of moving left to accommodate entering traffic.

You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault. If he hadn't clashed with me, he would've done so with others because of his unlawfully slow speed.

I'm not sure if the road you're on has an actual minimum speed limit, but even if it does, I very strongly suspect that he would have reached that speed if you had moved over. It looks to me like he was being cautious because he wasn't sure what you were up to, not erratic.

1995hoo

Quote from: webny99 on May 06, 2021, 08:19:11 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
Quote from: webny99 on May 05, 2021, 10:49:33 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 05, 2021, 10:37:52 AM
Plus, I've taken that onramp in cars that are weaker than my current one and have not had an issue with getting up to speed. There simply was no reason for that BMW to be going so slowly and then braking other than just flat out not knowing how to drive.

I think what we're saying is that the BMW driver's skills don't really matter because it takes two drivers to create conflict. This was an entirely avoidable situation that both parties are equally responsible for not taking action to prevent.

And if you really want to shift blame in one direction or the other, shift it in the direction of the guy who had the greater number of options, including the option of moving left to accommodate entering traffic.

You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault. If he hadn't clashed with me, he would've done so with others because of his unlawfully slow speed.

I'm not sure if the road you're on has an actual minimum speed limit, but even if it does, I very strongly suspect that he would have reached that speed if you had moved over.

Also, he doesn't know what the word "cannot" means. Of course you "can" enter the Interstate if you're going below the posted minimum. Whether you're "supposed to" is another question, but we know people both "can" and "do" do things they're not "supposed to" all the time (like the guy I saw in my neighborhood last night who used the bike lane to pass two cars going the speed limit–right as two pedestrians were walking in the bike lane to avoid someone on the sidewalk who had a big dog).

Crash_It wouldn't do too well at all in certain Deep South states where drivers assume you will move over to make room at onramps, regardless of what "the law" might say.

I'm not sure who's worse, Crash_It or a certain someone who's been out of control on the Fictional Highways side recently, but I suspect Crash_It simply chooses to be a troll and the other user in question has a different reason for that behavior.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

sprjus4

Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
If he hadn't clashed with me, he would've done so with others because of his unlawfully slow speed.
Oh please, give up the "unlawfully slow" . The person was accelerating onto the highway and hadn't reached full speed yet. Any other reasonably driver he would've "clashed"  with would've slowed off and let him in or sped past him, and moved on with their day, instead of going out of the way, pulling dashcam footage, doing a whole research project on state laws he might have violated, and uploaded it to YouTube then expected all this positive feedback.

I've ran into those type of merging situations countless times, and 99% of the time anticipating it and slowing off when the entering car is visible, letting them merge, then either speeding up with them or passing when possible, isn't an issue.

I could only imagine if that was an 18-wheeler. I suppose he should be written a ticket because he's fully loaded truck couldn't reach 45 mph coming on that short ramp.

MikeTheActuary

Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault.

Even subconsciously you're agreeing with most of the criticism directed towards you.

Fault is not a binary either/or concept.   Most of the time, in two-vehicle incidents, both drivers are at least partially at fault, as there are actions they could have reasonably taken that would have produced a different outcome.

There's no reason to get upset over that reality.  Humans are not perfect.  The problem arises when people cannot grasp the possibility that they made a mistake and learn from the experience.

roadman65

Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 06, 2021, 08:52:48 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault.

Even subconsciously you're agreeing with most of the criticism directed towards you.

Fault is not a binary either/or concept.   Most of the time, in two-vehicle incidents, both drivers are at least partially at fault, as there are actions they could have reasonably taken that would have produced a different outcome.

There's no reason to get upset over that reality.  Humans are not perfect.  The problem arises when people cannot grasp the possibility that they made a mistake and learn from the experience.

The last sentence is so true.   People seem to have lost the feeling of being humble and go on their business as if the event did not happen.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

kalvado

Quote from: roadman65 on May 06, 2021, 08:59:03 AM
Quote from: MikeTheActuary on May 06, 2021, 08:52:48 AM
Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault.

Even subconsciously you're agreeing with most of the criticism directed towards you.

Fault is not a binary either/or concept.   Most of the time, in two-vehicle incidents, both drivers are at least partially at fault, as there are actions they could have reasonably taken that would have produced a different outcome.

There's no reason to get upset over that reality.  Humans are not perfect.  The problem arises when people cannot grasp the possibility that they made a mistake and learn from the experience.

The last sentence is so true.   People seem to have lost the feeling of being humble and go on their business as if the event did not happen.
Someone who was giving me my early driving lessons was more blunt:
"you are not the only idiot on the road, others make mistakes as well". That concept served me well ever since.

kphoger

Quote from: webny99 on May 06, 2021, 08:19:11 AM

Quote from: Crash_It on May 06, 2021, 08:14:41 AM
You cannot enter an interstate unless you can drive at the minimum speed which is what the BMW driver was not doing... therefore, he is more at fault. If he hadn't clashed with me, he would've done so with others because of his unlawfully slow speed.

I'm not sure if the road you're on has an actual minimum speed limit ...

It doesn't.

Quote from: sprjus4 on May 06, 2021, 08:43:50 AM
Oh please, give up the "unlawfully slow" . The person was accelerating onto the highway and hadn't reached full speed yet.

Yep, exactly.  If there hadn't been an intimidating driver in the right lane, they probably would have accelerated more confidently, might even have made it up to the minimum speed limit–which, as pointed out, doesn't exist to begin with.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Crash_It


texaskdog

I will always get over to let someone in easily if I can.  If I can't I speed up or slow down to whatever is the most appropriate to make it easy for them.  However the ones who see the 100 feet behind me open who speed up to get ahead of me drive me crazy.

ibthebigd

I hate being behind Semi's getting on the interstate because I know they won't get up to spend especially a loop ramp

SM-G950U


kkt

You don't really know what is up in the other driver's car.  Did the other driver not see you?  Did the car suffer a sudden mechanical failure?  You don't know, and that's why you have a legal and moral responsibility not to threaten the other driver with a collision.

Max Rockatansky


Hot Rod Hootenanny

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on May 25, 2021, 11:06:53 PM
We are still on this Crash_It stuff?
Isn't it like people standing around looking at....a crash.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

Avalanchez71

I saw someone end their life by an improper merge.  There is a large merge from TN 396 to I-65 north that goes on for a good distance.  A typical day consists of what I call right lane runners running the right lane all the way to the merge point.  Keep in mind there is like a good mile to make this movement. It starts out as two lanes going into two lanes until it is one lane going to two to the final two lanes.  The right lane runners keep running the right lane until they cannot any longer.  This causes traffic slow downs. 

I cannot believe that people just cannot see this for what it is.  If folks would merge as soon as possible then they would not choke up the highway such as they do.  Traffic can come to a standstill due to this.  Going back to the man that lost his life.  He decided to be a right lane run all the way to the must merge point and then tried slingshot across the "fast lane" to get ahead of the game like so many others.  Well needless to say that he miscalculated the space available and then proceeded to plant himself into his own car by the collision he just caused and he was gone.


https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7488561,-86.8707593,3a,75y,13.12h,80.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suQoYnNdzZQMuDhd26pRG1A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DuQoYnNdzZQMuDhd26pRG1A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D104.031876%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

sprjus4

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on May 27, 2021, 08:15:50 AM
I saw someone end their life by an improper merge.  There is a large merge from TN 396 to I-65 north that goes on for a good distance.  A typical day consists of what I call right lane runners running the right lane all the way to the merge point.  Keep in mind there is like a good mile to make this movement. It starts out as two lanes going into two lanes until it is one lane going to two to the final two lanes.  The right lane runners keep running the right lane until they cannot any longer.  This causes traffic slow downs. 

I cannot believe that people just cannot see this for what it is.  If folks would merge as soon as possible then they would not choke up the highway such as they do.  Traffic can come to a standstill due to this.  Going back to the man that lost his life.  He decided to be a right lane run all the way to the must merge point and then tried slingshot across the "fast lane" to get ahead of the game like so many others.  Well needless to say that he miscalculated the space available and then proceeded to plant himself into his own car by the collision he just caused and he was gone.


https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7488561,-86.8707593,3a,75y,13.12h,80.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1suQoYnNdzZQMuDhd26pRG1A!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DuQoYnNdzZQMuDhd26pRG1A%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D104.031876%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656
Have you ever heard of a zipper merge?  :pan:

QuoteI cannot believe that people just cannot see this for what it is.  If folks would merge as soon as possible then they would not choke up the highway such as they do.  Traffic can come to a standstill due to this.
If folks would merge as soon as possible, the highway would be choked up more. Running until the end then zippering in lessens the congestion. They are doing it right. You're doing it wrong.

Additionally, you mention traffic congestion is an issue. Aren't you similarly opposed to highway widening on this segment of I-65 that would reduce that congestion? Kind of seems counterintuitive.

It appears I-65 needs to be widened from 4 to 8 lanes between I-840 and TN-396.

kphoger

Quote from: ibthebigd on May 25, 2021, 07:12:23 PM
I hate being behind Semi's getting on the interstate because I know they won't get up to spend especially a loop ramp

When there's a slow-moving truck in front of me on an on-ramp, I hang back at low speed for a while to let him get farther ahead.  Then, for about the last half of the on-ramp, I accelerate pretty quickly, such that I'm gaining decent ground on him by the end of the on-ramp.

If there's an opportunity to quickly dart around him in the left lane, then it's a win.  If there isn't, then I slow back down again and am none the worse for it.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.



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