Bike Lanes

[abefroman329]

As a driver I want more bike lanes and more people using them. The more people in the bike lane, the less people in my way in the general purpose lane.

Better yet, ban the bikes from the road, and use the space of the bike lanes for more parking.

Why don't we get rid of the parking spaces for more through lanes, pave over the sidewalks for through lanes, and demolish a few cities for even more through lanes.

Because when you get where you are going you need to be able to park.
Classic case of optimization over 2 goods in Econ 101.

This is why I posted an image of 1970s Houston and asking for your thoughts on the cityscape back then.

Love it. When its 100 degrees outside and 90% humidity you can drive right up to the store you want to go to and park close and not walk out in the heat. Ditto for rain. Works great.

Meaning there's no need to have any parking along the street and plenty of room for a couple streets to have bike lanes.

Nope add an extra lane to those streets, no one wants to bike in 100 plus degree weather anyway. Give me an extra lane so my town car can get me there faster.

Houston only gets to 100°F during the summer. Temps are good-to-great for biking the other nine months.

There are perhaps 3 months a year tops where Houston is good for biking. March through November the average high is over 70 degrees, plus high humidity. That is not good weather for anything but recreational biking. For transportation it needs to be cooler and drier.

What was that you were saying the other day...ah yes:

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

[kphoger]

Singapore is far worse for heat and humidity than Houston most of the year, and yet their residents manage to cycle in it just fine.

They should all be driving a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon instead.

[CoreySamson]

Keep in mind that people in Houston are used to higher temperatures. 80° there is nothing, while it's moderately hot where I live (Massachusetts) and where you live (Pennsylvania).

On the flip side, I can handle mid-50s without a jacket if I'm moving and not just sitting, but someone from Houston probably can't.

If it's windy, then no, absolutely not. If not, then yes.

My two cents is that outdoors exercise or strenuous activity (such as biking) should generally be avoided in the Houston area from May to November from 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM, unless you have plenty of water on you (not sweat on your back!) and are willing to wear a T-shirt and shorts to wherever you are going. I've had too many heat-related headaches from doing things outside in the summer without adequate water to know that biking in the summer here is a horrible idea.

On the other hand, late fall, winter, and early spring are absolutely great times to ride a bike in the Houston area, and I would still support bike lanes in certain areas.

[HighwayStar]

Singapore is far worse for heat and humidity than Houston most of the year, and yet their residents manage to cycle in it just fine.

They should all be driving a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon instead.

Unfortunately the country is not rich enough for that. So instead everyone shows up to work drenched in sweat and the office smells like a locker room.

[HighwayStar]

As those drivers are the ones paying for the road and keeping the economy running I would say its more of a right for them than a privilege.
Sky walks seem like a better solution here, grade separated and conflict free.

Outside of those pesky laws that say otherwise.

Here's the Catch 22 highwaystar must've forgotten about; if we were to build skywalks to separate pedestrians from vehicles, that money will come from transportation funds, reducing the money available to be spent on roads.  Pedestrians bridges are expensive.

Actually many of them are privately funded as they connect private real estate. So in fact sky walks would not need public funds at all, instead real estate developers could pay for them.

[Rothman]

As those drivers are the ones paying for the road and keeping the economy running I would say its more of a right for them than a privilege.
Sky walks seem like a better solution here, grade separated and conflict free.

Outside of those pesky laws that say otherwise.

Here's the Catch 22 highwaystar must've forgotten about; if we were to build skywalks to separate pedestrians from vehicles, that money will come from transportation funds, reducing the money available to be spent on roads.  Pedestrians bridges are expensive.

Actually many of them are privately funded as they connect private real estate. So in fact sky walks would not need public funds at all, instead real estate developers could pay for them.

Wow.  Somebody is the Internet Explorer in this thread.  Look above...

[jeffandnicole]

As those drivers are the ones paying for the road and keeping the economy running I would say its more of a right for them than a privilege.
Sky walks seem like a better solution here, grade separated and conflict free.

Outside of those pesky laws that say otherwise.

Here's the Catch 22 highwaystar must've forgotten about; if we were to build skywalks to separate pedestrians from vehicles, that money will come from transportation funds, reducing the money available to be spent on roads.  Pedestrians bridges are expensive.

Actually many of them are privately funded as they connect private real estate. So in fact sky walks would not need public funds at all, instead real estate developers could pay for them.

That is generally true as a condition of building at the property. But once the property is built, it's nearly impossible for the municipality to force a property owner to build something that isn't to their sole benefit...especially something like a Skywalk which is better to be incorporated into the original design of a new building or area.

[kphoger]

Singapore is far worse for heat and humidity than Houston most of the year, and yet their residents manage to cycle in it just fine.

They should all be driving a 1977 Buick Estate Wagon instead.

Unfortunately the country is not rich enough for that. So instead everyone shows up to work drenched in sweat and the office smells like a locker room.

It appears you may have missed the sarcasm in my comment.

I'm also curious to know how many office environments you've been to in Singapore.

[kphoger]

 

[abefroman329]

Dadgum.

[CoreySamson]

Not quite a bike lane, but would any of you feel comfortable biking on this officially marked bike route?


Especially with this bridge right down the line? And this? I'm not sure I would like to share the road in this circumstance.

[kphoger]

Not quite a bike lane, but would any of you feel comfortable biking on this officially marked bike route?


Especially with this bridge right down the line? And this? I'm not sure I would like to share the road in this circumstance.

The highway in general, yes.  The bridge, no.

[Mr. Matté]

Not quite a bike lane, but would any of you feel comfortable biking on this officially marked bike route?
[img]
Especially with this bridge right down the line? And this? I'm not sure I would like to share the road in this circumstance.

Checking the Strava heatmap for that particular stretch, it seems to be pretty used. I probably would not mind riding on it, even with the bridge (though I will obviously be looking over my shoulder before crossing it) though I don't like the full rumble strips along the fog line since I might need to take the lane to avoid any crap in the road, like what is there downstream of the bridge in your first link. The milled roadway is a temporary condition and I would look forward to the fresh pavement.

[jamess]

New project in Portland imported dutch traffic signals





https://bikeportland.org/2022/05/05/first-look-at-the-new-lanes-and-paths-on-naito-parkway-353232

[JoePCool14]

That page had a video showing a ride-along of the route in both directions. Overall, it looks pretty cool and works effectively, at least from a cyclist's perspective. I'm not a huge fan of some of the striping used. The symbols used didn't seem particularly standardized. And to nitpick even further, I don't think I want to see Arial Narrow on the road either.

I also think the usage of green paint could've been significantly toned down and replaced with more traditional "road striping" with a yellow centerline. But overall, this configuration looks to be well thought out.

[jamess]

That page had a video showing a ride-along of the route in both directions. Overall, it looks pretty cool and works effectively, at least from a cyclist's perspective. I'm not a huge fan of some of the striping used. The symbols used didn't seem particularly standardized. And to nitpick even further, I don't think I want to see Arial Narrow on the road either.

I also think the usage of green paint could've been significantly toned down and replaced with more traditional "road striping" with a yellow centerline. But overall, this configuration looks to be well thought out.

I think the extreme use of green in this type of facility is more to try and keep pedestrians out of it

[jakeroot]

Very awkward zebra striping for the bike and ped crossings. Just on the left and center is odd.

Very cool bike signals. But really don't see why they are using massive 12-12-12 bike signals on the far-side (especially hilarious given the very small nearside signals). 8-inch signals are more than enough for far-side bike signals.

[Scott5114]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

[SkyPesos]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

Most new bike signals I've seen are 8", so I think there's probably something in there allowing for smaller bike signals. Could check later to confirm. Makes sense if so, as bikers don't need as large signal heads for visibility as drivers.

[SectorZ]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

Most new bike signals I've seen are 8", so I think there's probably something in there allowing for smaller bike signals. Could check later to confirm. Makes sense if so, as bikers don't need as large signal heads for visibility as drivers.

That, however, is offset by the signal not being fully lit inside, only the outline of the bike is, meaning overall it's giving off much less light per square inch than a standard signal. Making it smaller in that case already makes it harder to see. I've not personally had a problem with them but I am wearing prescription sunglasses while riding. Someone with their vision cut a bit from that, add in the sun in the background, and I can see those 8" heads that are effectively half-lit being hard to see in certain situations.

[kphoger]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

Yes.  The IA specifically allows smaller sizes to be used for bicycle signals.

Section 4D.07 – Size of Vehicular Signal Indications

02.  Except as provided in Paragraph 3 below, 12-inch signal indications shall be used for all signal sections in all new signal faces.

03.  Eight-inch circular signal indications may be used in new signal faces only for:

  A.  The green or flashing yellow signal indications in an emergency-vehicle traffic control signal (see Section 4G.02);

  B.  The circular indications in signal faces controlling the approach to the downstream location where two adjacent signalized locations are close to each other and it is not practical because of factors such as high approach speeds, horizontal or vertical curves, or other geometric factors to install visibility-limited signal faces for the downstream approach;

  C. The circular indications in a signal face that is located less than 120 feet from the stop line on a roadway with a posted or statutory speed limit of 30 mph or less;

  D. The circular indications in a supplemental near-side signal face:

  E. The circular indications in a supplemental signal face installed for the sole purpose of controlling pedestrian movements (see Section 4D.03) rather than vehicular movements; and

  F. The circular indications in a signal face installed for the sole purpose of controlling a bikeway or a bicycle movement.

https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2009r1r2/mutcd2009r1r2edition.pdf

4.  Design of Bicycle Signal Faces:

b.  Size:  The provisions of Section 4D.07 apply to the sizes of bicycle signal faces except as follows:

  i.  There shall be three nominal diameter sizes for bicycle signal indications: 4 inches, 8 inches, and 12 inches. The bicycle symbol used for bicycle signal indications shall be proportioned to fit within the signal lens.

  ii.  All signal indications in a bicycle signal face shall be of the same size, including both signal indications that display arrows and signal indications that display bicycle symbols. As a specific exception to Paragraph 2 in Section 4D.07, 4-inch and 8-inch arrow signal indications may be used in bicycle signal faces.

  iii.  Four-inch signal indications shall only be used in supplemental, post-mounted, near-side bicycle signal faces. If used, 4-inch signal indications may exclude the accompanying visor(s) and backplate. Near-side bicycle signal faces may alternatively be either 8-inch or 12-inch.

https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/resources/interim_approval/ia16/

[jamess]

Very awkward zebra striping for the bike and ped crossings. Just on the left and center is odd.

I believe they are placed so that the car tires normally run in the gaps and are less likely to rub the paint away

[jakeroot]

Very awkward zebra striping for the bike and ped crossings. Just on the left and center is odd.

I believe they are placed so that the car tires normally run in the gaps and are less likely to rub the paint away

That explains the gap, but there should be an additional stripe on the right edge of the roadway. There is only striping on the left and center.

[jeffandnicole]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

8" signals for standard signals are still permitted in certain circumstances...

Section 4D.07 Size of Vehicular Signal Indications
Standard:
01 There shall be two nominal diameter sizes for vehicular signal indications: 8 inches and 12 inches.

Option:
03 Eight-inch circular signal indications may be used in new signal faces only for:..

C. The circular indications in a signal face that is located less than 120 feet from the stop line on a roadway with a posted or statutory speed limit of 30 mph or less;
D. The circular indications in a supplemental near-side signal face

[jakeroot]

↑ Does the MUTCD have a carveout that allows primary bike signals to be smaller? 12" is the minimum for car signals, so it could be worded in such a way that it applies to bike signals too.

8" signals for standard signals are still permitted in certain circumstances...

Kphoger already shared this a few posts up.