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Author Topic: I-370 MD  (Read 1164 times)

TMETSJETSYT

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I-370 MD
« on: August 18, 2022, 06:42:19 PM »

Hi again, so I just have a question about I-370. I don't get why it is an interstate. It runs for around a mile and ends at a random junction with MD-200. I don't get why they don't just continue it with MD-200. It would work out for the state too because even if this were to happen and they left the tolls on MD-200, then it would attract more traffic because of the interstate shields, so the state would get more money from the tolls. I just don't get why they haven't extended it along MD-200, or why it is even an interstate for the matter of fact. If anyone could answer these questions, that would be great. Thanks.
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oscar

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2022, 06:55:56 PM »

Hi again, so I just have a question about I-370. I don't get why it is an interstate. It runs for around a mile and ends at a random junction with MD-200.

It's not a "random junction". It ends at a short limited-access connector to the Shady Grove Metro station, which is the north end of the Red Line (major commuter route into downtown D.C.). That was good enough to justify I-370's Interstate designation.

MD 200 came later. It's also a toll road, which complicates Interstate designation.
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Duke87

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2022, 07:34:34 PM »

Yeah so there's a long and tortured history here. But the gist of it is:

- back in the mid-20th century, there was a proposal for an outer beltway of Washington, DC. None of it was ever built, and the plan was cancelled, however most of the right-of-way between I-270 and I-95 was acquired. Josiah Henson Parkway occupies part of this ROW now in North Bethesda, the rest which wasn't later used for MD 200 is now a park.
- In the 1970s, a fresh but scaled back proposal surfaced for an "Intercounty Connector" that would have run only between I-270 and I-95, which partially used the planned route for the outer beltway but had the western half routed north to head to Gaithersburg instead of North Bethesda. Some of the altered ROW was acquired for this, too, but once again nothing was built and the plan was canceled.
- In the 1980s, plans were floated to build a short road connecting the proposed Shady Grove metro station directly to I-270 which would mostly use unused ROW from the Intercounty Connector. This was actually built, and it opened in 1988. Note that the I-370 designation originally ran to the Metro station.
- Later, in the 2000s, the Intercounty Connector proposal was resurrected... and this time it actually got built. It opened in two sections between I-370 and I-95 in 2011. The final section between I-95 and US 1 came a few years later. When MD 200 was tied in to I-370, the I-370 designation was truncated and the former end of it leading to the Metro station was reduced to ramps.

As for why MD 200 isn't all just I-370... well, there's no reason for it to be. Wouldn't have made any additional funding available to build it. If there were to be any sort of designation simplification, it'd make the most sense frankly to just sign the whole thing as MD 200 and relegate I-370 to being an unsigned interstate (wouldn't be the only one).
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famartin

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2022, 08:36:52 PM »

Yeah so there's a long and tortured history here. But the gist of it is:

- back in the mid-20th century, there was a proposal for an outer beltway of Washington, DC. None of it was ever built, and the plan was cancelled, however most of the right-of-way between I-270 and I-95 was acquired. Josiah Henson Parkway occupies part of this ROW now in North Bethesda, the rest which wasn't later used for MD 200 is now a park.
- In the 1970s, a fresh but scaled back proposal surfaced for an "Intercounty Connector" that would have run only between I-270 and I-95, which partially used the planned route for the outer beltway but had the western half routed north to head to Gaithersburg instead of North Bethesda. Some of the altered ROW was acquired for this, too, but once again nothing was built and the plan was canceled.
- In the 1980s, plans were floated to build a short road connecting the proposed Shady Grove metro station directly to I-270 which would mostly use unused ROW from the Intercounty Connector. This was actually built, and it opened in 1988. Note that the I-370 designation originally ran to the Metro station.
- Later, in the 2000s, the Intercounty Connector proposal was resurrected... and this time it actually got built. It opened in two sections between I-370 and I-95 in 2011. The final section between I-95 and US 1 came a few years later. When MD 200 was tied in to I-370, the I-370 designation was truncated and the former end of it leading to the Metro station was reduced to ramps.

As for why MD 200 isn't all just I-370... well, there's no reason for it to be. Wouldn't have made any additional funding available to build it. If there were to be any sort of designation simplification, it'd make the most sense frankly to just sign the whole thing as MD 200 and relegate I-370 to being an unsigned interstate (wouldn't be the only one).

History is the only reason not to remove it, but that matters to people. That having been said, if MD 200 was signed I-370 the whole way, I think it might get more traffic, despite the tolls. Those red-white-blue shields definitely get people's attention, if only because you generally know what you are dealing with (a high speed limited-access highway), vs. those US and state shields which could mean a 2 lane 25 mph road for all anyone knows.
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Roadsguy

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2022, 10:00:18 PM »

Yeah so there's a long and tortured history here. But the gist of it is:

- back in the mid-20th century, there was a proposal for an outer beltway of Washington, DC. None of it was ever built, and the plan was cancelled, however most of the right-of-way between I-270 and I-95 was acquired. Josiah Henson Parkway occupies part of this ROW now in North Bethesda, the rest which wasn't later used for MD 200 is now a park.
- In the 1970s, a fresh but scaled back proposal surfaced for an "Intercounty Connector" that would have run only between I-270 and I-95, which partially used the planned route for the outer beltway but had the western half routed north to head to Gaithersburg instead of North Bethesda. Some of the altered ROW was acquired for this, too, but once again nothing was built and the plan was canceled.
- In the 1980s, plans were floated to build a short road connecting the proposed Shady Grove metro station directly to I-270 which would mostly use unused ROW from the Intercounty Connector. This was actually built, and it opened in 1988. Note that the I-370 designation originally ran to the Metro station.
- Later, in the 2000s, the Intercounty Connector proposal was resurrected... and this time it actually got built. It opened in two sections between I-370 and I-95 in 2011. The final section between I-95 and US 1 came a few years later. When MD 200 was tied in to I-370, the I-370 designation was truncated and the former end of it leading to the Metro station was reduced to ramps.

As for why MD 200 isn't all just I-370... well, there's no reason for it to be. Wouldn't have made any additional funding available to build it. If there were to be any sort of designation simplification, it'd make the most sense frankly to just sign the whole thing as MD 200 and relegate I-370 to being an unsigned interstate (wouldn't be the only one).

History is the only reason not to remove it, but that matters to people. That having been said, if MD 200 was signed I-370 the whole way, I think it might get more traffic, despite the tolls. Those red-white-blue shields definitely get people's attention, if only because you generally know what you are dealing with (a high speed limited-access highway), vs. those US and state shields which could mean a 2 lane 25 mph road for all anyone knows.

Making it all MD 200, however, would allow them to continue that number west onto the short Sam Eig Highway to end at MD 119, giving the entire road from MD 119 to US 1 a single route number. I don't think this was ever proposed, however.

Even if the entire ICC is made an interstate, I don't think it should be I-370. While such proposals are pretty much dead at this point, if it were extended into more of a true outer beltway (west into VA via the Techway bridge or east to the B-W Parkway or MD 3), it would be less and less of a "spur". We wouldn't want another I-540 on our hands...
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TMETSJETSYT

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2022, 08:29:36 AM »

I still just don't get why MD-200 is not I-370. It would benefit the state because the interstate shield would draw more attention to the road, meaning that the state would get more money from tolls. Just doesn't make sense.
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Roads I have clinched- I-84 (MA-CT-NY-PA), I-78 (NY-NJ-PA), I-395 (DC-VA), I-695 (Both DC and NY), I-490 (NY), I 390 (NY), I-787 (NY), I-287 (NY-NJ), I-795 (NC), I-140 (NC), I-295 (Both VA and MD), I-270 (MD), And I am only 13 so I have much more to clinch.

Mapmikey

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2022, 08:38:49 AM »

I still just don't get why MD-200 is not I-370. It would benefit the state because the interstate shield would draw more attention to the road, meaning that the state would get more money from tolls. Just doesn't make sense.

Two important questions to answer as to whether MD 200 could have been an interstate:

Was it actually built to interstate standards?

Given the law at the time, we’re federal funds used in its design or construction?

Note that the second question would be moot if MD 200 we’re being built now. I am less clear about whether there would be problems converting it to an interstate now because it was built under the previous version of the law - need to check if the new law addresses that.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2022, 02:03:36 PM »

Old 370 between the Interstate 370/MD 200 junction and the Shady Grove Metro Station is now MD 200A, which is unsigned. Also, I think the Washingtonian Blvd., the Interstate 270 North and 270 South, as well as the eastbound Shady Grove Road exits should have numbers; with Washingtonain being 1A, 270 South being 1B, 270 North being 1C, and Shady Grove being 1D.
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TMETSJETSYT

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2022, 02:32:24 PM »

Well, if they aren't gonna extend I-370 beyond the train station, then why even have it? Its more of a useless grandchild interstate, and if they extended MD-200 past the metro station, then they would be able to add more tolls, making it a win win for the state. Lots of confusion around this road.
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Roads I have clinched- I-84 (MA-CT-NY-PA), I-78 (NY-NJ-PA), I-395 (DC-VA), I-695 (Both DC and NY), I-490 (NY), I 390 (NY), I-787 (NY), I-287 (NY-NJ), I-795 (NC), I-140 (NC), I-295 (Both VA and MD), I-270 (MD), And I am only 13 so I have much more to clinch.

Ted$8roadFan

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2022, 03:05:52 PM »

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WillWeaverRVA

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2022, 05:55:10 PM »

Well, if they aren't gonna extend I-370 beyond the train station, then why even have it? Its more of a useless grandchild interstate, and if they extended MD-200 past the metro station, then they would be able to add more tolls, making it a win win for the state. Lots of confusion around this road.
They can't extend it because of how it was funded. There's no real reason to remove it, though (it actually serves a purpose), so just leave it.
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davewiecking

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Re: I-370
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2022, 07:32:36 PM »

If MD wanted to extend MD-200 on existing I-370 and Sam Eig Highway (at least up to the part where it becomes a county roadway), they could certainly do so. Doesn’t mean they could slap tolls on any of it, or that anybody’s GPS would suddenly route them onto it when it wouldn’t before. If I see a toll road, I assume it’s a decent quality road, whether or not it has an I-shield.

I’m pretty sure most of MD-200 is built to interstate standards; the portion between I-95 and US-1 is not. The Briggs Cheney Rd interchange isn’t “complete”, but it functions (and is tolled) as part of the US-29 interchange.
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Henry

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2022, 10:30:22 AM »

At this point, extending I-370 or MD 200 is a pipe dream. I like how one route transitions seamlessly into the other at the Metro station, so why mess with that?
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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2022, 07:39:27 PM »

There is a benefit for the toll-averse that the designation very clearly delineates which part is toll and which part is free.

What I would like to see happen for this road is a change in signage to put in place real control cities, instead of "TO 270" and "TO 95/1" as directions.  The westbound control should be Gaithersburg and the eastbound control should be Laurel.

ICC does get a decent amount of traffic, but the toll itself is what is keeping it from being a better reliever.  That and its general direction from NW to SE.  Even if you are in the area of 270 (like in North Bethesda / Southern Rockville), the trajectory of the road makes it an inconvenient shortcut to Baltimore, unless 495 is overly backed up.  As such, it is most useful for more local trips, not as a Beltway bypass between the northern 95 corridor and the northern 270 corridor.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2022, 01:29:46 PM »

There is a benefit for the toll-averse that the designation very clearly delineates which part is toll and which part is free.

What I would like to see happen for this road is a change in signage to put in place real control cities, instead of "TO 270" and "TO 95/1" as directions.  The westbound control should be Gaithersburg and the eastbound control should be Laurel.

ICC does get a decent amount of traffic, but the toll itself is what is keeping it from being a better reliever.  That and its general direction from NW to SE.  Even if you are in the area of 270 (like in North Bethesda / Southern Rockville), the trajectory of the road makes it an inconvenient shortcut to Baltimore, unless 495 is overly backed up.  As such, it is most useful for more local trips, not as a Beltway bypass between the northern 95 corridor and the northern 270 corridor.

The tolls are there for two reasons:

(1) The state would not have had the money to build it without issuing toll revenue bonds.

(2) To control demand to the point that the road is always free-flow.  The tolls do that.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-370 MD
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2022, 01:34:35 PM »

As for why MD 200 isn't all just I-370... well, there's no reason for it to be. Wouldn't have made any additional funding available to build it. If there were to be any sort of designation simplification, it'd make the most sense frankly to just sign the whole thing as MD 200 and relegate I-370 to being an unsigned interstate (wouldn't be the only one).

I suspect that when the bonds sold to build MD-200 are paid-down, MDOT and FHWA will move I-370 and MD-200A from non-tolled status (maintained by the State Highway Administration) to toll maintenance (by MDTA) though this does not mean that I-370 and MD-200A will become toll roads.  Maryland did this years ago after I-95 was completed in the state with the Fort McHenry Tunnel back in 1985.  A few years after that, Baltimore City, MDOT and MDTA agreed that the non-tolled sections of I-95 in the city should be maintained by MDTA instead of the city so now all of I-95 and I-395 in the city are maintained and policed by MDTA.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2022, 01:41:43 PM by cpzilliacus »
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