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Poll

Shall the Ohio Valley board be removed and its contents incorporated into other boards?

For the proposal - YES
- 66 (70.2%)
Against the proposal - NO
- 28 (29.8%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: September 11, 2022, 07:06:00 PM


Author Topic: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board  (Read 3659 times)

Scott5114

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2022, 07:06:34 PM »

I’d say the board should be merged. Maybe merge the SW Pennsylvania thread in with the rest of the state.

I would not support making any changes to the SW PA thread.  The general PA thread (like other general state threads) is huge enough as it is.

That seems like an argument for locking both general threads and actually making new threads for new topics to me.

But people like their massive no-purpose threads for some reason. I don't get it, myself.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2022, 08:30:59 PM »

I’d say the board should be merged. Maybe merge the SW Pennsylvania thread in with the rest of the state.

I would not support making any changes to the SW PA thread.  The general PA thread (like other general state threads) is huge enough as it is.

I agree with you there, but it could remain intact and just be moved to Northeast board if this ends up happening.

I could've sworn there was also a Northwest PA thread in the Midwest board, but apparently not, because now I can't find it.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2022, 09:03:44 PM »

I’d say the board should be merged. Maybe merge the SW Pennsylvania thread in with the rest of the state.

I would not support making any changes to the SW PA thread.  The general PA thread (like other general state threads) is huge enough as it is.

I agree with you there, but it could remain intact and just be moved to Northeast board if this ends up happening.

I could've sworn there was also a Northwest PA thread in the Midwest board, but apparently not, because now I can't find it.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=25510.0  (for the Bayfront Pkwy)
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2022, 05:02:22 PM »


Yes. Let's bring states together under one board.

Indiana — Midwest, Great Lakes
Minnesota — Midwest, Great Lakes
Illinois — Midwest, Great Lakes
Ohio — Midwest, Great Lakes
Pennsylvania — Northeast
West Virginia — Mid-Atlantic
Tennessee — Southeast
Mississippi — Southeast
Louisiana — Southeast

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2022, 08:28:10 PM »

I don't really have a preference.  However, after reviewing several other comments I would like to put forward my two-cents worth.

It was brought up recently that Ohio Valley is, unlike any of the other boards, primarily made up of split states. Some users have said that splitting states between different boards makes things more difficult. If they have a statewide interest, they have to check two different forums. When posting a new topic it can be difficult to decide which board it should go in. Closing the Ohio Valley board would thus greatly reduce the number of split states.

Edited to add: The intent would be for the border to be "fuzzed" around the metro areas. Metro Cincinnati topics would go to Midwest and metro Louisville topics would go to whichever board Kentucky ends up in.

<snipped> Culturally, Kentucky is tied more to Tennessee and the southeast, but because of the Ohio River, road projects are more tied to Indiana and Ohio. I think of grouping states in terms of shared road projects more than traditional geographic divisions.
However, trying to keep metro areas in a single region is a big reason why we had split states to begin with. If split states is what we're trying to avoid, it makes the most sense to just use geographical divisions.

I can't find the specific quote, but someone on one of the forums made a related comment about the State-themed threads being too large and too general.  That's not as true about West Virginia and Kentucky, but it is certainly true about Ohio and Pennsylvania.  Looking at this from the 25,000-foot viewpoint, it seems like the State-themed threads are the wrong venue for catch-all discussions.  They make a lot of sense for DOT-related issues, but not regional issues or corridor-specific issues.

Secondly, there has been a recent trend to "pin" the State-themed threads to the top of the Regional boards.  I might be totally wrong here, but this seems to indicate that the Moderators are needing to spend a lot of time reviewing and moderating the State-themed discussions.  Occasionally, I will see something on a State-themed thread get relocated to another board, but I didn't find much evidence that those threads have been a problem.  Except perhaps the Tolbs17 influence.

I'm certainly not opposed to the State-themed threads.  Here in North Carolina, our State-themed thread has the additional benefit of catching a lot of the "NCDOT is Slap-happy" sentiments (both ways).  I don't have a preference there either, but the dialogue can be amusing.  [Hopefully, I didn't offend NCDOT or any of its subsidiaries by this comment, as I'm still officially on call for some other DOT subsidiaries]. 
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2022, 08:43:41 PM »

I can't find the specific quote, but someone on one of the forums made a related comment about the State-themed threads being too large and too general.  That's not as true about West Virginia and Kentucky, but it is certainly true about Ohio and Pennsylvania.
Ohio's thread is by far the smallest of the state threads in the Midwest-Great Lakes board (only 30% of the pages of Indiana despite the state having 75% higher population than Indiana, for comparison) and isn't posted in as frequently as the other ones, so I think it's fine.

Could have more threads for each metro area (like the St Louis thread in the Central States board, so STL topics can go in there instead of the general Missouri thread), for those of us (like myself) that feel like we're "spamming" the forum if we post a thread for each question that's done after an answer.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 08:46:35 PM by SkyPesos »
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Scott5114

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2022, 01:23:02 AM »

for those of us (like myself) that feel like we're "spamming" the forum if we post a thread for each question that's done after an answer.

The better solution would be to get over that feeling. Not every thread has to reach two pages to be worthwhile. Consider that it is much easier for someone to find the answer to "Why does Ohio 1047 dead-end at an abandoned mineshaft?" in a thread titled "Why does Ohio 1047 dead-end at an abandoned mineshaft?" than if it's on page 11167 of the 132,183,463-page "Ohio General thread".
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2022, 01:48:57 PM »

for those of us (like myself) that feel like we're "spamming" the forum if we post a thread for each question that's done after an answer.

The better solution would be to get over that feeling. Not every thread has to reach two pages to be worthwhile. Consider that it is much easier for someone to find the answer to "Why does Ohio 1047 dead-end at an abandoned mineshaft?" in a thread titled "Why does Ohio 1047 dead-end at an abandoned mineshaft?" than if it's on page 11167 of the 132,183,463-page "Ohio General thread".

Regardless of whether a change is implemented, we as a Forum community ought to try harder to help make searches easier (and hopefully reduce the Moderator's workload). Me included. There's a ton of stuff that gets dumped into the North Carolina mega-thread that are specific to large urban regions like the Triangle, the Triad and Wilmington. 
« Last Edit: September 09, 2022, 10:31:38 PM by Alps »
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2022, 07:14:18 PM »

I vote yes. The West Virginia split makes no sense and who knows where the line in the Midwest is. We have too many regional boards anyway.
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Roadsguy

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2022, 09:29:51 AM »

The obvious solution is to give West Virginia and Kentucky each their own board. :)
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2022, 09:43:21 AM »

I would suggest limiting the Ohio Valley page to the existing and proposed bridges over the Ohio River, as eliminating the Ohio Valley page would create a problem on where to put these crossings if Kentucky and West Virginia were placed in one region and Indiana and Ohio in another.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2022, 11:09:42 AM »

I would suggest limiting the Ohio Valley page to the existing and proposed bridges over the Ohio River, as eliminating the Ohio Valley page would create a problem on where to put these crossings if Kentucky and West Virginia were placed in one region and Indiana and Ohio in another.

Edited to add: The intent would be for the border to be "fuzzed" around the metro areas. Metro Cincinnati topics would go to Midwest and metro Louisville topics would go to whichever board Kentucky ends up in.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2022, 03:11:46 AM »

The merge is complete. Please keep an eye out for any threads that ended up in the wrong place and report them if they need to be moved!
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2022, 12:33:10 PM »

I see that the Midwest-Great Lakes and Ohio Valley boards are now one, and renamed to Great Lakes and Ohio Valley. That's a good compromise, as everything related to KY can remain in the new board, so I call it a win-win.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #39 on: September 19, 2022, 12:55:02 PM »

I found a couple threads for PA and NY in the former Midwest-Great Lakes board that haven't been moved to northeast: the Erie Bayfront Parkway thread, and an ancient one I created way back before it became clear that people were going to just put all NY discussion in the general thread in Northeast rather than follow the board descriptions.  There might be others; it might be worth a sweep to look for them.
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BlueOutback7

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2022, 01:05:16 PM »

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 01:09:32 PM by BlueOutback7 »
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Scott5114

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #41 on: September 19, 2022, 05:27:08 PM »

I found a couple threads for PA and NY in the former Midwest-Great Lakes board that haven't been moved to northeast: the Erie Bayfront Parkway thread, and an ancient one I created way back before it became clear that people were going to just put all NY discussion in the general thread in Northeast rather than follow the board descriptions.  There might be others; it might be worth a sweep to look for them.

Moved.

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.

Merged.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #42 on: September 19, 2022, 05:29:18 PM »

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.

Merged.

Doesn't that interleave the two threads, though? Or did one end after before the other started? [edit: fixed]
« Last Edit: September 19, 2022, 08:46:59 PM by 1 »
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Scott5114

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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2022, 07:57:58 PM »

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.

Merged.

Doesn't that interleave the two threads, though? Or did one end after the other started?

Isn't a state general thread just 87 interleaved threads already? What's the difference if it becomes 174 interleaved threads?
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2022, 08:42:57 PM »

I found a couple threads for PA and NY in the former Midwest-Great Lakes board that haven't been moved to northeast: the Erie Bayfront Parkway thread, and an ancient one I created way back before it became clear that people were going to just put all NY discussion in the general thread in Northeast rather than follow the board descriptions.  There might be others; it might be worth a sweep to look for them.

Moved.

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.

Merged.
Awesome, thanks!

I ended up combing the board myself and found two more.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7608.0
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4974.0
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2022, 08:46:22 PM »

I also discovered that the new board now has two general “Ohio” threads both titled “Ohio” with the smaller one being from the former “Ohio Valley” board. Most Ohio discussion is generally put in the larger 30 page thread from the old “Midwest Great Lakes” board. Granted the smaller thread hasn’t been posted in since June. Maybe that one could be called “Southern Ohio” to minimize confusion similar to how SW Pennsylvania has a separate thread.

Merged.

Doesn't that interleave the two threads, though? Or did one end after the other started?

Isn't a state general thread just 87 interleaved threads already? What's the difference if it becomes 174 interleaved threads?

I agree
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2022, 10:22:07 AM »

Doesn't that interleave the two threads, though? Or did one end after before the other started? [edit: fixed]

You wanted them merged 5 years ago, now you have your wish

We have two threads with the exact same name, and it might be hard to keep track of which is which. Merge?



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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2022, 10:57:52 AM »

Here are a couple more threads that could be merged and renamed to just "I-71 miscellany" 
 
https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16300.msg2088847#msg2088847

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=16299.msg2088844#msg2088844

The southern one never really got used. This would just fix the active one's awkward title that's no longer needed.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2022, 12:18:28 PM »

While all this board cleanup is occurring, would it be possible to consolidate the individual state threads at the top of the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley thread list like those in the Mid-Atlantic, Pac SW, Mountain States, etc? Just a suggestion.
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Re: PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD: Proposal to merge the Ohio Valley board
« Reply #49 on: September 20, 2022, 01:07:11 PM »

While all this board cleanup is occurring, would it be possible to consolidate the individual state threads at the top of the Great Lakes/Ohio Valley thread list like those in the Mid-Atlantic, Pac SW, Mountain States, etc? Just a suggestion.

I think each regional board does their own thing with respect to that. It's only recently that the Southeast board got the state threads pinned (except for Georgia which was the only state pinned on Southeast for a while)
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