Quote from: akotchi on May 07, 2011, 10:51:06 AM
The arrangement of the destinations also reflects the NYSTA's philosophy of keeping through traffic on the toll portion of the highway system -- maximizes revenue opporunities. Both sets of signs pictured above are on the toll highway. No matter how the highways or exits are numbered in this area, the destinations would likely remain the same.
Augusta via I-95 proper at exit 44... riiight...
Quote from: yakra on May 11, 2011, 01:15:46 AM
Quote from: akotchi on May 07, 2011, 10:51:06 AM
The arrangement of the destinations also reflects the NYSTA's philosophy of keeping through traffic on the toll portion of the highway system -- maximizes revenue opporunities. Both sets of signs pictured above are on the toll highway. No matter how the highways or exits are numbered in this area, the destinations would likely remain the same.
Augusta via I-95 proper at exit 44... riiight...
If you're talking about Maine, Exit 44 is the Tourist Exit for Portland, right?
You could say that. Exit 44 is the southern I-95/295 junction.
Quote from: froggie on May 11, 2011, 09:58:48 AM
You could say that. Exit 44 is the southern I-95/295 junction.
That's what I thought I recalled, but I wasn't sure of the exit numbers and didn't feel like waiting forever for Google Maps to load (it's slow this morning). It's the "Tourist Exit" because it's tolled, yet if you continue about half a mile north on I-95, the next exit has no toll and will put you right onto I-295. I normally don't worry much about avoiding tolls unless they're extortionate (Delaware Turnpike) or mess up the traffic big-time such that it's worth avoiding them (Delaware Turnpike), but the Portland Tourist Exit is essentially a middle finger to anyone not from the Portland area. I understand from friends in Maine that everyone there calls it the "Tourist Exit" because everyone who lives there knows never to use it.
See map below (I decided to wait out Google Maps) for the easy bypass around the toll. The road labelled "Maine Turnpike Approach" has no toll when you leave the Turnpike, in contrast to I-295.
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.627937,-70.338421&spn=0.023018,0.066047&z=15
That's not so much signing the toll route over the best route as adding a toll booth to what was the best route.
So just how far can you drive on the Maine Turnpike and get out on the connector for free? Are there any barrier tolls, or could you essentially game the system for all it's worth?
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2011, 11:55:48 PM
So just how far can you drive on the Maine Turnpike and get out on the connector for free? Are there any barrier tolls, or could you essentially game the system for all it's worth?
Well, there are tolls at the entrances, and IIRC there are three barriers (no ticket system). Only a few of the off-ramps have tolls. So avoiding the Tourist Exit workscwell en route TO I-295, but coming back FROM I-295 it doesn't confer any benefit. If you exited prior to a barrier and then got back on after passing by on a local road (a la Delaware Turnpike), you'd pay a toll on reentry.
Yes, you have to pay get onto the northbound Turnpike there. But if you exit at 295 rather than the connector, you pay an extra quarter. MapQuest's rendering of OSM data shows toll roads: http://open.mapquest.com/link/3-C6t4eBja
Judging from aerial imagery and the turnpike's toll charts, the only location where you can drive the turnpike toll-free is between Auburn (Exit 75) and Sabattus (Exit 86). Anything involving entering/exiting south of Auburn or north of Sabattus incurs a toll.
Quote from: NE2 on May 12, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
Yes, you have to pay get onto the northbound Turnpike there. But if you exit at 295 rather than the connector, you pay an extra quarter. MapQuest's rendering of OSM data shows toll roads: http://open.mapquest.com/link/3-C6t4eBja
If you're driving north and you take Exit 44 for I-295 (no southbound exit there), you pay. If you take the next exit (Exit 45), you don't pay anything–there is no toll to exit there.
I haven't been up as far as Augusta in a long time, but I notice there is a new service plaza just south of the northern I-95/I-295 split that requires you to exit the Turnpike (paying a toll) and then cross a local street; it can also be accessed from I-295. Apparently a machine dispenses toll vouchers so that cash-payers don't get charged when they re-enter the Turnpike (E-ZPass gets credited automatically). What's to stop someone who wasn't already on the Turnpike from turning into the service area, getting a voucher (putting the E-ZPass in the no-read bag if needed), and then getting on the Turnpike for free?
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2011, 09:32:07 AM
Quote from: NE2 on May 12, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
Yes, you have to pay get onto the northbound Turnpike there. But if you exit at 295 rather than the connector, you pay an extra quarter. MapQuest's rendering of OSM data shows toll roads: http://open.mapquest.com/link/3-C6t4eBja
If you're driving north and you take Exit 44 for I-295 (no southbound exit there), you pay. If you take the next exit (Exit 45), you don't pay anything–there is no toll to exit there.
But you don't get teleported onto the northbound turnpike; you have to enter somewhere that there's a toll booth (putting aside the service plaza question, which doesn't apply here).
Quote from: NE2 on May 12, 2011, 09:59:45 AM
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2011, 09:32:07 AM
Quote from: NE2 on May 12, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
Yes, you have to pay get onto the northbound Turnpike there. But if you exit at 295 rather than the connector, you pay an extra quarter. MapQuest's rendering of OSM data shows toll roads: http://open.mapquest.com/link/3-C6t4eBja
If you're driving north and you take Exit 44 for I-295 (no southbound exit there), you pay. If you take the next exit (Exit 45), you don't pay anything–there is no toll to exit there.
But you don't get teleported onto the northbound turnpike; you have to enter somewhere that there's a toll booth (putting aside the service plaza question, which doesn't apply here).
I thought that was what I said earlier, although I see I made a minor typo because I was typing on my phone:
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2011, 07:50:42 AM
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2011, 11:55:48 PM
So just how far can you drive on the Maine Turnpike and get out on the connector for free? Are there any barrier tolls, or could you essentially game the system for all it's worth?
Well, there are tolls at the entrances, and IIRC there are three barriers (no ticket system). Only a few of the off-ramps have tolls. So avoiding the Tourist Exit workscwell en route TO I-295, but coming back FROM I-295 it doesn't confer any benefit. If you exited prior to a barrier and then got back on after passing by on a local road (a la Delaware Turnpike), you'd pay a toll on reentry.
QuoteI haven't been up as far as Augusta in a long time, but I notice there is a new service plaza just south of the northern I-95/I-295 split that requires you to exit the Turnpike (paying a toll) and then cross a local street; it can also be accessed from I-295. Apparently a machine dispenses toll vouchers so that cash-payers don't get charged when they re-enter the Turnpike (E-ZPass gets credited automatically). What's to stop someone who wasn't already on the Turnpike from turning into the service area, getting a voucher (putting the E-ZPass in the no-read bag if needed), and then getting on the Turnpike for free?
I doubt there's a machine dispensing toll vouchers, considering that there is no toll booth at that local exit just south of 295. The mainline toll plaza is a mile or two south of the local street you refer to.
Quote from: froggie on May 12, 2011, 09:08:21 AM
Judging from aerial imagery and the turnpike's toll charts, the only location where you can drive the turnpike toll-free is between Auburn (Exit 75) and Sabattus (Exit 86). Anything involving entering/exiting south of Auburn or north of Sabattus incurs a toll.
Correct.
Quote from: froggie on May 12, 2011, 11:38:47 AM
QuoteI haven't been up as far as Augusta in a long time, but I notice there is a new service plaza just south of the northern I-95/I-295 split that requires you to exit the Turnpike (paying a toll) and then cross a local street; it can also be accessed from I-295. Apparently a machine dispenses toll vouchers so that cash-payers don't get charged when they re-enter the Turnpike (E-ZPass gets credited automatically). What's to stop someone who wasn't already on the Turnpike from turning into the service area, getting a voucher (putting the E-ZPass in the no-read bag if needed), and then getting on the Turnpike for free?
I doubt there's a machine dispensing toll vouchers, considering that there is no toll booth at that local exit just south of 295. The mainline toll plaza is a mile or two south of the local street you refer to.
IAWTP.
Quote from: froggie on May 12, 2011, 11:38:47 AM
QuoteI haven't been up as far as Augusta in a long time, but I notice there is a new service plaza just south of the northern I-95/I-295 split that requires you to exit the Turnpike (paying a toll) and then cross a local street; it can also be accessed from I-295. Apparently a machine dispenses toll vouchers so that cash-payers don't get charged when they re-enter the Turnpike (E-ZPass gets credited automatically). What's to stop someone who wasn't already on the Turnpike from turning into the service area, getting a voucher (putting the E-ZPass in the no-read bag if needed), and then getting on the Turnpike for free?
I doubt there's a machine dispensing toll vouchers, considering that there is no toll booth at that local exit just south of 295. The mainline toll plaza is a mile or two south of the local street you refer to.
All I know that is on the Turnpike's site it says that they have "on-site kiosks" dispensing vouchers:
http://www.maineturnpike.com/traveler_services/service_plazas.php
Also this story said that the process was to be automated via machines: http://www.mrlakefront.net/newsprint.taf?news_id=773
I think the reason for it is that if you're going north and you exit the Turnpike to use the service area, you have to re-enter via I-295, and that requires going through a toll plaza.
Edited to add: The page linked below explains it as follows: Going north you pass through the barrier toll south of the service plaza. If you then use the service plaza, you have to re-enter the Turnpike via I-295, which means paying another toll, so you get a voucher for that particular toll (I-295 entry to Turnpike). Going south, to get to the service plaza you have to exit onto I-295, pay the toll there, then exit I-295. If you get back onto the Turnpike–I know, why would you do that given that I-295 is more direct to most places–you pick up a voucher at the service area because otherwise you have to pay at the barrier toll once you're back on the Turnpike. However, the service area is accessed off a local road, so it's unclear to me from the information I've seen online how they would prevent someone from gaming the system by accessing the service area from the local road, getting a voucher, and then beating the toll that way. (E-ZPass users apparently have the voucher credited automatically, sort of like changing trains on the New York Subway via your MetroCard at a couple of stops.)
http://www.mainevoyagers.com/Maine_exitfacts1.html
Yowza! Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that was too crazy an idea to flat-out disagree with. I'll have to read up on that.
(Mods, sorry if the post got inadvertently hijacked... feel free to split.)
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 11, 2011, 10:13:26 AM
the Portland Tourist Exit is essentially a middle finger to anyone not from the Portland area.
Ayuh. Heck... my own parents are from abot 30 mi N of here, and still weren't aware of this li'l trick till I told`em. This after, what 20+ years of using now-I-295?
QuoteI understand from friends in Maine that everyone there calls it the "Tourist Exit" because everyone who lives there knows never to use it.
I'll confirm this usage. :happy:
Quote from: NE2 on May 11, 2011, 10:25:36 AM
That's not so much signing the toll route over the best route as adding a toll booth to what was the best route.
Well, the "Tourist Exit" discussion moves away a bit from the point I meant to make, that Augusta is signed via I-95 at the southern I-295 jct (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.621724,-70.354879&spn=0.004279,0.008272&t=k&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.621798,-70.354807&panoid=v_35WvjKul-Vzdx96ovzfw&cbp=12,43.97,,0,-0.93). (Disregarding what you do at the southern jct, pay $1 xor (http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/X/xor.html) wiggle around Exit 45 a bit and drive a tiny bit more mileage, for a moment,) I-295 is about 53 mi, and I-95 between its termini is 103-44=59 mi. I-295 saves you 6 miles, and... crap, what do the barrier tolls cost these days? 3 bucks.
Quote from: 1995hoo on May 12, 2011, 07:50:42 AM
Quote from: Steve on May 11, 2011, 11:55:48 PM
So just how far can you drive on the Maine Turnpike and get out on the connector for free? Are there any barrier tolls, or could you essentially game the system for all it's worth?
Well, there are tolls at the entrances, and IIRC there are three barriers (no ticket system). Only a few of the off-ramps have tolls.
Correct. Specifically, the only off-ramps with tolls are Exit 44 (southern I-295 jct) and Exit 52 (Falmouth Spur, secret I-495). So, Exit 45 is free, as most exits are. A driver still will have paid a minimum of $1 to have entered the pike at this point. Gaming the system becomes stretching this dollar for all it's worth.
So just how far can you drive on the Maine Turnpike and get out on the connector for free? 45-19 = 26 mi.
What's the farthest one can drive on one buck? 63-19 = 44 (This gets you the most mi/$).
What's the farthest one can drive on $1.25 paid @ the W.Gardiner barrier? 103-75 = 28.
On $1.75 paid @ the New Gloucester barrier? 86-19 = 67.
Quote from: NE2 on May 12, 2011, 07:58:58 AM
Yes, you have to pay get onto the northbound Turnpike there. But if you exit at 295 rather than the connector, you pay an extra quarter. MapQuest's rendering of OSM data shows toll roads: http://open.mapquest.com/link/3-C6t4eBja
Extra dollar! x_x
Quote from: yakra on May 12, 2011, 01:10:36 PM
Yowza! Somewhere in the back of my mind I knew that was too crazy an idea to flat-out disagree with. I'll have to read up on that.
(Mods, sorry if the post got inadvertently hijacked... feel free to split.)
Yeah, when I responded to your post about Augusta via Exit 44, I didn't really intend for it to turn into a Maine Turnpike discussion. But I find the whole question about the toll vouchers at that service area interesting even though I have no plans to be up in Maine any time soon.
The use of smileys doesn't seem too common on this forum, but I think this thread is ripe for this one:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.acurazine.com%2Fforums%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2Fhijack.gif&hash=fb503c2ad2b61647cf2c2cb822488763b7d8d791)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on May 12, 2011, 02:16:53 PM
Quote from: yakra on May 12, 2011, 12:16:04 PMIAWTP.
I am what thou ... pisseth? huh?
According to Google, it means "I agree with this post."
I travel to Maine every year, and I've been trapped at exit 44 many times. Traffic backs up there quite a bit. I found this Exit 45 trick accidentally last year when I wasn't paying attention and missed Exit 44 (northbound). Bingo - a dollar saved! Interestingly, my aunt lives in Wells and works at the Jetport and never knew this trick either!
Does anyone remember when the Maine Turnpike was a closed "ticket" system for toll collection? I remember the south end setup for tolls, but the north end we never really traveled and can't seem to figure out what the setup was, in relation to mainline barriers, exit tolls, etc.....
My guess is that the two mainline plazas in New Gloucester and Gardiner were added when the turnpike was converted from the ticket system to the present toll system. I have some memories of getting on at former Exit 14 NB (I-95NB entering the turnpike NB, which is today's Exit 103/northern terminus of I-295) and getting a ticket, then having to pay the toll a few miles further up the 'pike upon reaching Augusta near former Exit 15. This area just south of what is now today's Exit 109 seems like it was wide enough at one time to support a toll plaza marking the northern end of the ticket system.
http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Augusta,+ME&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.928295,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Augusta,+Kennebec,+Maine&ll=44.304077,-69.807676&spn=0.002492,0.005681&t=k&z=18
Then there's this beauty at Exit 103/former Exit 14:
http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Augusta,+ME&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.928295,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Augusta,+Kennebec,+Maine&ll=44.212034,-69.826505&spn=0.009982,0.022724&t=k&z=16
I don't remember (today's) I-295 NB -> turnpike SB ramp ever being open. Nor can I see that much of a use for it, other than to provide traffic with an all-limited access route. I guess back in those days, you'd pass through the toll barrier, get your ticket, then choose from either the turnpike NB or SB. Today, you just exit at that diamond just before the toll, turn left, then right and you're on the turnpike. There was another toll plaza there too, I believe.
I believe a few years ago, there were plans to abolish toll plazas at MOST interchanges and go with only mainline barriers, with a new barrier proposed around Saco. I recall hearing they'd retain the Falmouth Spur toll. Not sure whatever became of this, but portions of the northern end of the turnpike are set up that way. And with a setup such as that, you can convert Exit 102-NB into a partial diamond and remove the rest of the trumpet. (Well, you could do that right now and avoid having to replace another old turnpike bridge).
Finally, converting the exits to mileage and rerouting I-95 onto the turnpike for the entire way was perhaps THE BEST thing to happen to Northern New England roads. I remember the exits on I-95 used to go 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5-6-6A-7-8-9-15-...27-28-15-31-32-33...62. I can't imagine giving someone directions on the old system - take I-95 to Exit 3 in Maine. Not the first exit 3, the 2nd Exit 3. It'll be another 30 miles up the road.
Thoughts? Comments? Memories?
I think that, originally, the Gardiner barrier was the north end of the ticket system, and there was no barrier at New Gloucester. That was why, for years, there were unused toll booths on the ramps at the Auburn and Lewiston interchanges.
At some point (late 80s-ish?), the barrier at New Gloucester was built and the ticket system was cut back to there, with Gardiner becoming a cash barrier in both directions and Auburn and Lewiston becoming free interchanges. I remember traveling the turnpike many times in the 90s and by then New Gloucester was the north end of the ticket system.
I believe the plan to remove the ramp tolls was scrapped, but they are still planning to relocate the York barrer to a safer location.
Quote from: yakra on May 12, 2011, 01:53:27 PM
What's the farthest one can drive on $1.25 paid @ the W.Gardiner barrier? 103-75 = 28.
I goofed. One can't enter the Pike SB at 103; that's an exit only. So take it north to the actual end of the Turnpike: 109-75 = 34.
QuoteDoes anyone remember when the Maine Turnpike was a closed "ticket" system for toll collection?
Yes, but only barely. Long ago back when I was riding around in the back o'my parents' wagon (http://www.alanauto.com/pics/1968_122_Green_prevownerpic2.JPG)...
QuoteMy guess is that the two mainline plazas in New Gloucester and Gardiner were added when the turnpike was converted from the ticket system to the present toll system.
I believe this is correct.
QuoteI have some memories of getting on at former Exit 14 NB (I-95NB entering the turnpike NB, which is today's Exit 103/northern terminus of I-295) and getting a ticket, then having to pay the toll a few miles further up the 'pike
Same here. I remember rolling thru that toll plaza in a school bus in `90 or `91ish.
Quoteupon reaching Augusta near former Exit 15.
I think you mean former Exit 30. (Ain't I a stinker? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yrse3WqmNv4)) Upon reaching the northern terminus of the Turnpike, "normal" I-95 exit numbering resumed.
(I-95's old (pre-2004) exit numbering is a pretty sordid affair, but dear Eris, one I think I actually understand. That's another discussion -- one I'll happily start if some roadgeek provokes me. :) )
QuoteThis area just south of what is now today's Exit 109 seems like it was wide enough at one time to support a toll plaza marking the northern end of the ticket system.
http://www.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Augusta,+ME&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=44.928295,93.076172&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Augusta,+Kennebec,+Maine&ll=44.304077,-69.807676&spn=0.002492,0.005681&t=k&z=18
If I strip those Lat/Lon coordinates out of the Google Maps URL and plug them into Acme Mapper, we get this: http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.304077,-69.807676&t=T
And it wasn't just the end of the ticket system - it's the end of the toll system. The terminus of the Turnpike. I-95 north of there is Interstate Act stuff.
QuoteI don't remember (today's) I-295 NB -> turnpike SB ramp ever being open.
No memories here; I've never needed to go Gardiner -> Lewiston. It appears it was not open. (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.21213,-69.82520&t=T&z=14)
QuoteNor can I see that much of a use for it, other than to provide traffic with an all-limited access route.
I assume by this you mean the Beauty.
My initial thought was that it was to have a limited access route. Then I thought, no, the idea was to funnel all the traffic thru the toll plaza on the I-95 (now-295) interchange. "Pass through the toll barrier, get your ticket, then choose from either the turnpike NB or SB." But no, wait -- couldn't they just as easily have put a 1/2-diamond on now-295, or even used a setup similar to today's, and had the existing tollbooth handle the Turnpike to/from the south? I guess the idea was for a limited-access route after all. Makes little sense if you have to stop to get a ticket or pay a toll anyway; I bet the logic was to keep all the freeway-to-freeway traffic off the local road, however briefly. Or something.
Then later on, MDOT & the MTA decided the amount of traffic actually making these movements was negligible, and it'd be perfectly sensible to go with our present-day setup.
This had to have happened at the same time the W. Gardiner barrier toll opened:
If the Screwball Interchange closed first, and the barrier wasn't open yet, then traffic could get on the Turnpike SB for free. Unless they built a ramp toll at exit 14. Only to remove it, like, five minutes later. Quite unlikely.
If the barrier opened first, and the Screwball Interchange was still in use, then traffic entering the SB pike from Now-295 via the Screwball Interchange would be charged a second time at the barrier, paying more than traffic coming down the Turnpike mainline. Highly unlikely.
Like, wow man. I used to go thru this toll plaza (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=N+44.20879+W+69.82430&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.042042,67.763672&ie=UTF8&ll=44.212203,-69.824231&spn=0.003599,0.016544&t=k&z=16&layer=c&cbll=44.212204,-69.824239&panoid=j1DmK4q4kGBXWHpOWOQEXg&cbp=11,353.53,,0,-3.62) all the time and never noticed it was an old unused bridge till I knew to look for it.
QuoteThere was another toll plaza there too, I believe.
The original Exit 14 was here. (http://docs.unh.edu/ME/gard57ne.jpg)
QuoteI believe a few years ago, there were plans to abolish toll plazas at MOST interchanges and go with only mainline barriers, with a new barrier proposed around Saco. I recall hearing they'd retain the Falmouth Spur toll. Not sure whatever became of this,
Most interchanges: Let's see, highest figure I can come up with is 42% of the interchanges, including the N Jct w/295. Hm, yup. Most about describes it.
Wouldn't say
only mainline barriers though... The idea was to create a free commuter AreaRegionZoneThingy around greater Portland, similar to what they've done in L-A. Thus the Kennebunk and Biddeford interchanges would still be tolled, and Wells (as now) and Saco would be tolled in just one direction (the one pointed away from the barrier toll). Won't comment on the Gray & West Falmouth interchanges; I have no idea how far north this free system woulda extended.
Keeping the Falmouth Spur toll seems pretty likely; I believe it. (If you count the Falmouth Spur as a 4-mile-long glorified double trumpet, it's also a ramp toll.)
<tangent> ISTR back in like 1998-1999 or so the Falmouth Spur wasn't tolled eastbound. Just another ramp with no exit toll, right? Then they added one. And I started shunpiking. I think. Or else I'm imaging crap. </tangent>
What became of this? It was less a plan, then just an idea, being studied. I don't think it was ever formally said no to, just kinda forgotten-about. IIRC there was some opposition from ...Scarborough?, due to fears of people shunpiking around the barrier via US1. I don't think anyone ever came up with a good answer to that one... maybe the idea's being seen as less realistic? Haven't heard about it in a long time.
Quotebut portions of the northern end of the turnpike are set up that way. And with a setup such as that, you can convert Exit 102-NB into a partial diamond and remove the rest of the trumpet. (Well, you could do that right now and avoid having to replace another old turnpike bridge).
Ayuh.
QuoteFinally, converting the exits to mileage and rerouting I-95 onto the turnpike for the entire way was perhaps THE BEST thing to happen to Northern New England roads.
I was all about to say
"Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say 'The Best', but..." crap! Northern New England? I can't really think of an example of anything better. Yeah. SO why not! It did a lot of good toward fixing up exit sequences on numbered routes, and especially route numbers & exit sequences on physical highways.
I didn't even realize the degree I failed to understand it all until it got fixed, and them BLAMMO everything's crystal clear. (Could that be the event that turned me into a roadgeek?)
QuoteI remember the exits on I-95 used to go 1-2-3-1-2-3-4...
Make that 1-2-3-4-2-3-4. I know the York exit was signed as Exit 4 southbound. NB, I don't remember specifically. Could it have been Exit 1? It'd be perverse enough! The exit is south of the York toll barrier, and as such Exit 4 continues the Free-I-95 exit sequence form south of there. If it was signed the same exit # in both directions, it was Exit 4.
> ...5-6-6A-7-8-9...
5-6-6A-7-7A-7B-8-9
> ...27-28-15-31-32-33...
...27-28-14B-30-31-32-33...
QuoteI can't imagine giving someone directions on the old system - take I-95 to Exit 3 in Maine. Not the first exit 3, the 2nd Exit 3. It'll be another 30 miles up the road.
Don't know how, but I *did* find the correct Exit 4 (second one southbound :P) my first time around. But I had an incredible sense of Something's-Real-Bad-Wrong-Here until then.
Now that you mention it, I don't physically remember Exit 4 being signed as Exit 1, but I do remember it being Exit 1 on the Rand McNally maps and other atlasses. I have seen a photo on the internet of I-95 Exits 1-2-3 signed that way in the 1970s, so having Exit 4 being signed as a second Exit 1 seems less believable. Perhaps before I-95 through Kittery was built, and all traffic had to use US1 Bypass, then it was signed Exit 1.
I never noticed that the present day I-295/Turnpike barrier in Gardiner is actually underneath the loop ramp bridge which connected (present day) I-295 NB to the turnpike SB. Now looking at the Google Map street view, I can see that now. I guess that's why the bridge hasn't been taken down, even though its been out of use for years.
Looking at those old topo maps from Gardiner, it seems that there was a point in time when the ramps at Turnpike Exit 14(A) were not used, and that traffic utilized Exit 14(B) to present day I-295, pass through the barrier, and encounter the diamond interchange with 9/126. Interesting. Perhaps it was done to save money to only have a single barrier to staff with toll collectors.
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=44.21193,-69.82713&z=15&t=T&marker0=41.36733%2C-72.22465%2Ceast%20lyme%5C%2C%20ct&marker1=43.07305%2C-89.40123%2Cmadison%5C%2C%20wi
For comparison, http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.asp?fname=gard57ne.jpg&state=ME is before I-(2)95 was built.
Quote from: shadyjay on May 20, 2011, 04:37:03 PM
Perhaps before I-95 through Kittery was built, and all traffic had to use US1 Bypass, then it was signed Exit 1.
You mean US1Byp signed as Exit 1, right? If so, yeah, that's my suspicion.
The south end of the Turnpike in 1956. (http://docs.unh.edu/ME/york56sw.jpg) The map doesn't say "Interchange 1", as compared to the other interchanges on the old Topos, but I wouldn't say that means too much in this case.
For the York diamond to make sense, it has to have to barrier toll north of it. Otherwise (when it was 1st built), where to get your ticket SB, or pay your toll NB? So, I'm thinking... the York exit always continued the 1-2-3-4 sequence of Free I-95.
QuoteI never noticed that the present day I-295/Turnpike barrier in Gardiner is actually underneath the loop ramp bridge which connected (present day) I-295 NB to the turnpike SB. Now looking at the Google Map street view, I can see that now. I guess that's why the bridge hasn't been taken down, even though its been out of use for years.
Maine likes to leave old bridges standing. I believe the old Exit 5 (http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=43.52088,-70.46009&t=O&z=17) bridge remained in place until the pike was widened there in the early 2000s.
QuoteLooking at those old topo maps from Gardiner, it seems that there was a point in time when the ramps at Turnpike Exit 14(A) were not used, and that traffic utilized Exit 14(B) to present day I-295, pass through the barrier, and encounter the diamond interchange with 9/126. Interesting. Perhaps it was done to save money to only have a single barrier to staff with toll collectors.
Agreed. That was probably a big piece of the puzzle as well.
Quote from: yakra on May 20, 2011, 05:24:43 PM
The south end of the Turnpike in 1956. (http://docs.unh.edu/ME/york56sw.jpg) The map doesn't say "Interchange 1", as compared to the other interchanges on the old Topos, but I wouldn't say that means too much in this case.
Exit 1 would most likely have been the barrier toll, not the interchange just to the south. The New Jersey Turnpike is still this way (the exits at the south end have no numbers); I think "exit 1" only appears on toll tickets (http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/nj/i-95/).
I didn't realize that there was no EXIT 4 before they built I-95 through Kittery, over the Piscataqua, to points south. The old topos show no interchange between Kittery and Wells. Most likely, Turnpike Exit 1 was the toll plaza. Just the atlases prior to the exit numbering had it wrong, designating former EXIT 4 as EXIT 1, perhaps due to tight spacing issues on the maps.
That's how the Thruway does it as well; "exit 15" on the ticket is actually the Woodbury toll barrier located in exit 16; you even have to pass exit 15A before you get to the real exit 15. Note: this is not an issue at Cannan, Williamsville, Lackawanna, or Ripley.
The way the MassPike does it is insane, though. Somehow exit 1 is correct, but you have the messes at exits 14/15 and 18/19/20.
Quote from: Beeper1 on May 19, 2011, 01:06:46 AM
I think that, originally, the Gardiner barrier was the north end of the ticket system, and there was no barrier at New Gloucester.
The N end of the ticket system woulda been the now-obliterated barrier shadyjay linked above. Get your ticket @ Lewiston or Now-295 and pay @ the barrier. Or vice versa.
QuoteThat was why, for years, there were unused toll booths on the ramps at the Auburn and Lewiston interchanges.
Yeah man, I remember those puppies! Still there in 2000-2001ish... Gone by 2002,
maybe?QuoteAt some point (late 80s-ish?), the barrier at New Gloucester was built and the ticket system was cut back to there, with Gardiner becoming a cash barrier in both directions and...
I bet the West Gardiner mainline toll barrier was built at the same time as New Gloucester, and has always served as a cash (slash transpass slash EZpass) barrier both directions since.
It's
possible that it could have operated as cash (etc.) barrier SB and give-ticket-give-money toll NB before that point in time, but I see no reason to build an extra booth and cut the ticket system back to just there, for no real tangible gain, before making the L-A area interchanges free.
QuoteI believe the plan to remove the ramp tolls was scrapped, but they are still planning to relocate the York barrer to a safer location.
There has been some very vocal NIMBY opposition to creating a new toll barrier in York.
My opinion: the existing plaza, while less than shiny ideal-world perfect, nonetheless works fine. No need to go to the expense and trouble of replacing it.
I thought maybe this idea had been put to rest, maybe around the time LePage came into office and Paul Violette had his fall from grace. But what do I know; looks like it's still on the table. (http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20110511-NEWS-105110385)
NE2 & shayjay -- Yeah. Exit 1 being the southernmost barrier, I'd find pretty plausible.
deanej: NYST from Tappan Zee south -- it that all cash?
And does the MassPike have, like, one number 18/19/20 for each plaza we see here (http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.357799,-71.121368&spn=0.004107,0.008272&t=k&z=17)?
South of Woodbury the Thruway uses a barrier system with tolls at Spring Valley (trucks only; high speed ez-pass), Tappan Zee, and Yonkers.
On the MassPike, exit 18 is I-90 east to the local roads; exit 19 is the barrier on I-90; exit 20 is I-90 west to the local roads.