NY 17/"I-86"

[sparker]

Maybe NY-based posters (including the DOT folks) might know otherwise, but it seems that if NYDOT wanted to eliminate the duplicate signage of I-86 and NY 17, they would have put 17 back over 417 by now; the fact that they haven't done so speaks for itself.  I'm guessing that the co-signage will last for quite some time to come.  Multiple multiplexes, such as along I-86 west of Corning (86/NY17/NY15) usually are topographically-influenced; a facility down a valley or through a pass tends to collect a lot of intersecting routes for a short period of time.  The presence of a freeway along that route simply exacerbates that situation, since DOT's, in the event that multiplexes are necessary, prefer to utilize a facility with greater capacity and safety features.  So the inevitable "sign salad" is more a sign that a DOT is actually doing its job!

And if you think one Interstate plus two state shields is annoying, you should have been in Southern California circa 1959 or so, when one stretch of then-new I-15 also featured US 66, US 91, US 395, and, for a short time, CA 18.  That was a sign salad that needed an extra helping of Roquefort!

[seicer]

It does not appear that it will be co signed on segments further east. The new I-86 shields practically stand in front of some of the existing NY 17 shields.

[Rothman]

I would be shocked if NY 417 ever becomes NY 17.  NY has enough trouble keeping routes straight as is, let alone changing an entire route over.

[vdeane]

As far as I know, the ultimate plan for if I-86 is completed is to truncate NY 17.  Similar has already happened with NY 15 (it now ends in Wayland rather than overlapping to US 15), though there isn't an active effort to remove the signs beyond simply not replacing them.

The reference markers on the Allegany Reservation have been switched back to " 17 " , because the Senecas refuse to recognize I-86.

http://www.oleantimesherald.com/news/state-dot-crews-replace-mile-markers-with-signs/article_70ea19b0-bb86-11e7-a8c9-b7c2c4cf4d20.html

They should have always said 17 since reference markers are static.  Did Region 5 not follow procedure, or is the author of the article just confused about something?

[cl94]

I-86 is one of the few routes in R5 that didn't get new reference markers when the number/alignment changed. I can tell you that NY 263 was redone a few years ago to include the 1970s UB realignment in the mileage sequence and NY 425 doesn't have markers for the reference route it replaced. The state-maintained portion of former NY 358 (NY 954G) got new reference markers at some point to reflect current mileage.

[okc1]

The section of NY 417 in the Seneca Nation had "219" markers prior to the freeway completion. Were those ever changed? Do US highways have precedence over NY ones in the markers? EDIT: Street View still shows 219 as of Aug 2016.

[vdeane]

I think the article author was just confused.  I just saw an article from WGRZ noting that the full-size milemarkers were removed and that the reference markers remain.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/changes-to-i-86-signage/487365702

Honestly, I don't see why they care what the road is numbered.

[sparker]

I think the article author was just confused.  I just saw an article from WGRZ noting that the full-size milemarkers were removed and that the reference markers remain.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/changes-to-i-86-signage/487365702

Honestly, I don't see why they care what the road is numbered.

This is a hangover from the 1998 Congressional act that designated HPC 36 (aka NY 17)as a future Interstate, followed 2 years later by an amendment specifying the number "86".  As a unilateral amendment to Title 23/139 code, there was technically no need to involve or notify agencies at the state level of this action except to request that they post signage on qualifying segments of the corridor.  NYDOT acceded to this request, and I-86 was signed from the PA/NY 17 state line crossing to Corning by the end of 2000.  Unfortunately, the Seneca Nation wasn't given prior knowledge of the action, and took umbrage at their lack of inclusion (electing to not recognize the code amendments as legitimate because they weren't informed of the change prior to its posting in the field).  On top of that, the Nation was still in a huff about the Thruway extending through an outlying portion of their reserved lands back in the '50's, so they weren't of a mind to cut anyone -- NYDOT or the Feds -- much in the way of slack.  Unfortunately for all involved, this is an ongoing argument that'll likely outlive any of the original participants! 

[storm2k]

State announces new design for Route 17′s Exit 131

They're doing a DDI at this exit to accommodate all the traffic.

[SectorZ]

I think the article author was just confused.  I just saw an article from WGRZ noting that the full-size milemarkers were removed and that the reference markers remain.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/changes-to-i-86-signage/487365702

Honestly, I don't see why they care what the road is numbered.

The Seneca Nation president sounds as Native American as my state's senior senator...

[Alps]

I think the article author was just confused.  I just saw an article from WGRZ noting that the full-size milemarkers were removed and that the reference markers remain.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/changes-to-i-86-signage/487365702

Honestly, I don't see why they care what the road is numbered.

The Seneca Nation president sounds as Native American as my state's senior senator...

1/32? Different nations have different criteria as to who they'll allow with membership. Personally? White people took over this land, shot most of the Injuns, and barricaded the rest into reservations. Anything they want to do to preserve their identity, I'm all for it.=

[sparker]

I think the article author was just confused.  I just saw an article from WGRZ noting that the full-size milemarkers were removed and that the reference markers remain.
http://www.wgrz.com/news/changes-to-i-86-signage/487365702

Honestly, I don't see why they care what the road is numbered.

The Seneca Nation president sounds as Native American as my state's senior senator...

1/32? Different nations have different criteria as to who they'll allow with membership. Personally? White people took over this land, shot most of the Injuns, and barricaded the rest into reservations. Anything they want to do to preserve their identity, I'm all for it.=

Hey, the road's still got the 86 number and the Seneca Nation isn't doing anything to disrupt traffic.  Therefore, all's right with the wonderful world of Southern Tier travel.  I think doing without big old milemarkers for a few miles isn't going to make much difference in the larger picture; this is, at least functionally, a non-issue!   

[02 Park Ave]

Regarding the reconstruction of Exit 131, I don't understand why the direct connexion between the Thruway and Woodbury Common is being eliminated.  With the new design, traffic heading to Woodbury Common will have to get onto Route 32 and then enter it.

[cl94]

Regarding the reconstruction of Exit 131, I don't understand why the direct connexion between the Thruway and Woodbury Common is being eliminated.  With the new design, traffic heading to Woodbury Common will have to get onto Route 32 and then enter it.

Interstate requirements. Can't have a ramp directly from an Interstate onto a private development. Future definition of I-86 will have it ending at I-87, so that ramp needs to go.

[kalvado]

Regarding the reconstruction of Exit 131, I don't understand why the direct connexion between the Thruway and Woodbury Common is being eliminated.  With the new design, traffic heading to Woodbury Common will have to get onto Route 32 and then enter it.

Interstate requirements. Can't have a ramp directly from an Interstate onto a private development. Future definition of I-86 will have it ending at I-87, so that ramp needs to go.

How does the ramp from Northway to Crossgates work then? Is it because that end stretch is actually not I-87 any more?

[cl94]

Regarding the reconstruction of Exit 131, I don't understand why the direct connexion between the Thruway and Woodbury Common is being eliminated.  With the new design, traffic heading to Woodbury Common will have to get onto Route 32 and then enter it.

Interstate requirements. Can't have a ramp directly from an Interstate onto a private development. Future definition of I-86 will have it ending at I-87, so that ramp needs to go.

How does the ramp from Northway to Crossgates work then? Is it because that end stretch is actually not I-87 any more?

That hasn't been I-87 in at least 40 years.

[02 Park Ave]

What about that Stew Leonard Drive exit on the Thruway down in Westchester County?

[cl94]

That exit (at least the south half) was initially built for the former county hospital that now contains the shopping plaza. First thing built after the north half opened was the recycling facility. So initially, no, it did not serve a private retail development.

[empirestate]

What about that Stew Leonard Drive exit on the Thruway down in Westchester County?

Probably a city street. It does also connect to Ridge Hill, another private retail development (which I call "the Donald Trump of shopping centers" ).

[jp the roadgeek]

The southbound Thruway ramps in Nyack  lead directly to and from Palisades Center Dr, which is a mall ring road.

And while not an interstate, there's pretty much a direct connection from the GSP to Garden State Plaza.  They get away with it because it uses the NJ 4 c/d road.

[seicer]

State announces new design for Route 17′s Exit 131

Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced that the state has awarded a $150 million contract to reconfigure Route 17′s Exit 131 at a campaign-style rally Wednesday that attracted more than 200 supporters.

"It's a common-sense project, a long overdue project,"  said Cuomo, speculating that the traffic "lunacy"  that has prevailed around the exit in recent years has cost untold opportunities for economic development in the region.

[...]

He added that the Thruway Authority will be converting the Harriman toll plaza, where Route 17 meets the Thruway, to all-electronic tolling over the coming year to further improve the flow of traffic. Bids were opened last week, and work will start as soon as they have been vetted and a contract awarded.

[cl94]

The southbound Thruway ramps in Nyack  lead directly to and from Palisades Center Dr, which is a mall ring road.

They got away with it because the mall access roads were built on top of the old interchange and the north side is a public road. Since the SB entrance ramp is direct from NY 303, you could argue that only one of the four ramps ties into the mall. Was a folded diamond before the mall opened.

[kalvado]

The southbound Thruway ramps in Nyack  lead directly to and from Palisades Center Dr, which is a mall ring road.

They got away with it because the mall access roads were built on top of the old interchange and the north side is a public road. Since the SB entrance ramp is direct from NY 303, you could argue that only one of the four ramps ties into the mall. Was a folded diamond before the mall opened.

Then could Crossgates also say that their circle is owned by the town ? Or that alone would not be enough for the ramp?

[Snappyjack]

The portion of the Northway that the Crossgates ramp splits off from does not carry an interstate designation. While it could be argued that yes, at one time it was supposed to carry one, the ramp and the mall it leads to was not even thought of at that time the piece of road was built.

[Rothman]

Crossgates Mall also paid for the ramps (at least the bridges) to and from the Northway.