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Massachusetts

Started by hotdogPi, October 12, 2013, 04:50:12 PM

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NE2

Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".


Roadgeekteen

Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

AMLNet49

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!

It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge. So quite a short freeway segment to be sure (I believe shorter than any other segment of limited-access roadway in Mass), but one nonetheless.

And yes it is now a Super 2, but a divided limited-access Super 2 in the open cut, as opposed to a non-freeway Super 2 such as US 44 in Middleboro which is undivided and has traffic lights.

Roadgeekteen

Though Storrow Drive barely qualifies as a freeway anymore due to it's speed limit of 40.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

NE2

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 28, 2018, 06:12:34 PM
Though Storrow Drive barely qualifies as a freeway anymore due to it's speed limit of 40.
That's like saying you barely qualify as human due to you're age of 15.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Alps

Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!

It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge. So quite a short freeway segment to be sure (I believe shorter than any other segment of limited-access roadway in Mass), but one nonetheless.

And yes it is now a Super 2, but a divided limited-access Super 2 in the open cut, as opposed to a non-freeway Super 2 such as US 44 in Middleboro which is undivided and has traffic lights.
I would just call it a ramp.

Roadsguy

Quote from: Alps on December 28, 2018, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!

It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge. So quite a short freeway segment to be sure (I believe shorter than any other segment of limited-access roadway in Mass), but one nonetheless.

And yes it is now a Super 2, but a divided limited-access Super 2 in the open cut, as opposed to a non-freeway Super 2 such as US 44 in Middleboro which is undivided and has traffic lights.
I would just call it a ramp.

It's certainly set up as the mainline of MA 99, so I wouldn't call it a ramp, but it's basically one interchange. It's no more of a freeway than this.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

Alps

Quote from: Roadsguy on December 28, 2018, 08:05:16 PM
Quote from: Alps on December 28, 2018, 07:35:59 PM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!

It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge. So quite a short freeway segment to be sure (I believe shorter than any other segment of limited-access roadway in Mass), but one nonetheless.

And yes it is now a Super 2, but a divided limited-access Super 2 in the open cut, as opposed to a non-freeway Super 2 such as US 44 in Middleboro which is undivided and has traffic lights.
I would just call it a ramp.

It's certainly set up as the mainline of MA 99, so I wouldn't call it a ramp, but it's basically one interchange. It's no more of a freeway than this.
The one underpass is a mainline, but then Sullivan Square is more of a glorified ramp. It felt even more that way when the old flyover also existed.

Pete from Boston

Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge.

Which bridge is the Malden Bridge?

AMLNet49

Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 29, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge.

Which bridge is the Malden Bridge?

The bridge to Malden on 99. Probably shouldn't have capitalized bridge, but google maps had it in caps so I wasn't sure if maybe it was an official name

Ben114

two things:

button copy, even though it is rare nowadays, still exists on I-495 on older and not yet replaced signage for Exit 13.

if you go to Millbury at the 146/90/20 interchange, the newer signs have a blue-background Pike pilgrim hat sign (these signs can be seen coming from US 20 and the second one is hidden behind the older one)

Pete from Boston

Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 29, 2018, 05:34:16 PM
Quote from: Pete from Boston on December 29, 2018, 04:08:42 PM
Quote from: AMLNet49 on December 28, 2018, 05:46:31 PM
It's limited access, open cut, no driveways between BHCC and the Malden Bridge.

Which bridge is the Malden Bridge?

The bridge to Malden on 99. Probably shouldn't have capitalized bridge, but google maps had it in caps so I wasn't sure if maybe it was an official name

That's what I'm not clear on.  99 doesn't go into Malden for a good 3 miles from Sullivan Square.

Do you mean the Alford Street bridge over the Mystic River?

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

PHLBOS

Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!
The key phrase in the above is Jersey freeway.

Here's a thread that discusses & describes such.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

AMLNet49

Quote from: PHLBOS on January 02, 2019, 09:40:51 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!
The key phrase in the above is Jersey freeway.

Here's a thread that discusses & describes such.
It's not a jersey freeway though as there are no driveways and access is completely limited

PHLBOS

#1065
Quote from: AMLNet49 on January 02, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 02, 2019, 09:40:51 AM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on December 27, 2018, 01:17:51 PM
Quote from: NE2 on December 27, 2018, 01:11:05 PM
Probably talking about the Jersey freeway in Charlestown, including the Sullivan Square underpass.
That's a freeway?!
The key phrase in the above is Jersey freeway.

Here's a thread that discusses & describes such.
It's not a jersey freeway though as there are no driveways and access is completely limited
Access to Bunker Hill Community College of MA 99 South.  While such is styled like an interchange ramp; it's really a glorified driveway entry/exit.

Further south along MA 99/Rutherford Ave., Signalized intersection for US 1 North access ramps.

Jersey freeways can have signalized intersections whereas limited-access highways/freeways/expressways typically do not (yes, I'm aware of some freak, isolated exceptions out there).

Long story short; MA 99/Rutherford Ave. isn't anymore of a limited-access highway than MA 2 along Commonwealth Ave. in Boston is.  Such has a couple of interchanges along the way as well.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

froggie

From my experience, I'd agree with calling Rutherford Ave controlled-access from the Tobin ramps up to the Mystic River.  The access to the community college is designed too much like a ramp to call it a "glorified driveway".

Though I'm curious why it was narrowed to a single lane each way under Sullivan Square.  Anyone have the story on that?

PHLBOS

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
From my experience, I'd agree with calling Rutherford Ave controlled-access from the Tobin ramps up to the Mystic River.  The access to the community college is designed too much like a ramp to call it a "glorified driveway".
While it may be designed like a ramp, there is absolutely no highway-style signage (not even hints of such) for that ramp either at the gore nor an approach (standard criteria for interchange ramps).  That said, such is viewed on the same level as either a driveway or (maybe more accurate description) an entry point to a shopping center/mall parking lot. 

Additionally & to the best of my knowledge, not one map cartographer (Rand McNally, AAA, Goshua, etc.) that uses a specific linetype and/or color to distinguish limited-access highways from non-limited-access ones has ever used such for this stretch of MA 99/Rutherford Ave.  And before one mentions oh, it's only for a short segment as a reason for not showing it as such; for many years, Rand McNally showed the short stretch of US 1 between MA 62 & I-95 in Danvers as a limited-access highway (south of 62, it was shown as just a divided highway).  The stretch of 99 between the Tobin Bridge ramps and the Mystic River is roughly twice the distance of that stretch of US 1

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
Though I'm curious why it was narrowed to a single lane each way under Sullivan Square.  Anyone have the story on that?
This (deteriorating concrete above) could be the reason.  Roadman or someone else from the area can confirm/correct/clarify.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Alps

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
From my experience, I'd agree with calling Rutherford Ave controlled-access from the Tobin ramps up to the Mystic River.  The access to the community college is designed too much like a ramp to call it a "glorified driveway".

Though I'm curious why it was narrowed to a single lane each way under Sullivan Square.  Anyone have the story on that?

From my experience, this is a surface arterial without access control that just happens to not have any driveways between these two underpasses. Nothing precludes such so access is not limited.
The single lane narrowing was done based on traffic volumes for safety reasons, instead of having 4 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub with concrete walls.

froggie

I get that it's not officially designated as controlled-access or even limited-access...nonetheless, that is how it currently functions.

QuoteThe single lane narrowing was done based on traffic volumes for safety reasons, instead of having 4 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub with concrete walls.

There are Jersey barriers blocking the lane directly under the overpasses, so instead of 4 lanes you now have 2 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub.

AMLNet49

#1070
Quote from: PHLBOS on January 03, 2019, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
From my experience, I'd agree with calling Rutherford Ave controlled-access from the Tobin ramps up to the Mystic River.  The access to the community college is designed too much like a ramp to call it a "glorified driveway".
While it may be designed like a ramp, there is absolutely no highway-style signage (not even hints of such) for that ramp either at the gore nor an approach (standard criteria for interchange ramps).  That said, such is viewed on the same level as either a driveway or (maybe more accurate description) an entry point to a shopping center/mall parking lot. 

Additionally & to the best of my knowledge, not one map cartographer (Rand McNally, AAA, Goshua, etc.) that uses a specific linetype and/or color to distinguish limited-access highways from non-limited-access ones has ever used such for this stretch of MA 99/Rutherford Ave.  And before one mentions oh, it's only for a short segment as a reason for not showing it as such; for many years, Rand McNally showed the short stretch of US 1 between MA 62 & I-95 in Danvers as a limited-access highway (south of 62, it was shown as just a divided highway).  The stretch of 99 between the Tobin Bridge ramps and the Mystic River is roughly twice the distance of that stretch of US 1

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 11:54:03 AM
Though I'm curious why it was narrowed to a single lane each way under Sullivan Square.  Anyone have the story on that?
This (deteriorating concrete above) could be the reason.  Roadman or someone else from the area can confirm/correct/clarify.
I think it can be compromised to call 99 a “controlled access highway by coincidence” if we want to coin a term. Along those lines I’m curious how these maps listed the US 5 “roadway” (for lack of a better term) in West Springfield that roadwaywiz calls the “West Springfield Expressway”? 

This is another “controlled access highway by coincidence”, from 91 across the river and then up into westide where driveways begin along first one side then both

hotdogPi

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
I get that it's not officially designated as controlled-access or even limited-access...nonetheless, that is how it currently functions.

QuoteThe single lane narrowing was done based on traffic volumes for safety reasons, instead of having 4 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub with concrete walls.

There are Jersey barriers blocking the lane directly under the overpasses, so instead of 4 lanes you now have 2 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub.

Congratulations for post #10000!
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Roadgeekteen

Quote from: 1 on January 03, 2019, 10:26:14 PM
Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
I get that it's not officially designated as controlled-access or even limited-access...nonetheless, that is how it currently functions.

QuoteThe single lane narrowing was done based on traffic volumes for safety reasons, instead of having 4 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub with concrete walls.

There are Jersey barriers blocking the lane directly under the overpasses, so instead of 4 lanes you now have 2 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub.

Congratulations for post #10000!
It feels trippy seeing the likes this forum way way to much thing without a photo above it. Looks weird.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

froggie

^ Not everyone feels the need to show an avatar...

Quote from: AMLNet49Along those lines I'm curious how these maps listed the US 5 "roadway"  (for lack of a better term) in West Springfield that roadwaywiz calls the "West Springfield Expressway" ?

Both Rand McNally and National Geographic (similar cartography as the old American Map and RoadMaster/GeoNova/aligned-with-Mapquest atlases) show 5 as freeway south of US 20 and multilane north.  AAA shows all of 5 in Springfield as simply multilane.

Since you also mentioned them, RMcN and NG also show 116 in Amherst as freeway (AAA doesn't).  Only NG shows Storrow Dr as a freeway...and that only west of where MA 28 splits off onto Beacon St.

Alps

Quote from: froggie on January 03, 2019, 08:38:55 PM
I get that it's not officially designated as controlled-access or even limited-access...nonetheless, that is how it currently functions.

QuoteThe single lane narrowing was done based on traffic volumes for safety reasons, instead of having 4 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub with concrete walls.

There are Jersey barriers blocking the lane directly under the overpasses, so instead of 4 lanes you now have 2 lanes with no shoulders in a narrow tub.

Well, that's dumb.



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