Massachusetts

[bob7374]

I think there are too many overheads on I-84 in Mass.

There are too many overheads in Massachusetts.  Not sure why the state is obsessed with them.

In my opinion, if the highway is only 2 lanes in each direction, all signs should be ground-mounted.  This used to be the case on Rte. 2 west of Fitchburg, the Mass Pike west of I-84, and even I-495 between Rte. 24 and I-195.  The overheads in these sections of highways ruins the "scenic-ness" of these roads.

From MA 9 north to MA 2, I-91 was ground mounted signs.

The new sign replacement project along I-95 between Attleboro and Norwood is replacing the overhead signs for Rest Areas with ground mounted ones. Here are the old and new signs NB in Mansfield:

[Pete from Boston]

I think there are too many overheads on I-84 in Mass.

There are too many overheads in Massachusetts.  Not sure why the state is obsessed with them.

In my opinion, if the highway is only 2 lanes in each direction, all signs should be ground-mounted.  This used to be the case on Rte. 2 west of Fitchburg, the Mass Pike west of I-84, and even I-495 between Rte. 24 and I-195.  The overheads in these sections of highways ruins the "scenic-ness" of these roads.

I honestly don't think the few overheads in those spots feel especially visually busy. 495 isn't especially distinguished for its scenery, and the few on Route 2 are at fairly attention-critical places on a highway that frankly is full of surprises for the uninitiated.

[DJ Particle]

I think there are too many overheads on I-84 in Mass.

There are too many overheads in Massachusetts.  Not sure why the state is obsessed with them.

In my opinion, if the highway is only 2 lanes in each direction, all signs should be ground-mounted.  This used to be the case on Rte. 2 west of Fitchburg, the Mass Pike west of I-84, and even I-495 between Rte. 24 and I-195.  The overheads in these sections of highways ruins the "scenic-ness" of these roads.

I honestly don't think the few overheads in those spots feel especially visually busy. 495 isn't especially distinguished for its scenery, and the few on Route 2 are at fairly attention-critical places on a highway that frankly is full of surprises for the uninitiated.

Or as I like to say...unless you're a roadgeek, no one comes to the coast to look at the pretty freeways.  🤣

[Pete from Boston]

The new sign replacement project along I-95 between Attleboro and Norwood is replacing the overhead signs for Rest Areas with ground mounted ones. Here are the old and new signs NB in Mansfield:

I wish I were kidding when I say maybe this less conspicuous sign will lead fewer people to see this abject mess that passes for a rest area in Mass.

[shadyjay]

So I was on Route 128 today between the MassPike and I-93 in Reading and noticed that most of the Route 128 shields are gone... I only saw one the whole distance northbound, and that was on the C/D road between the MassPike and I-95.  The ones on the reassurance signs are gone (there is a white NORTH left behind but nothing below it), and the ones on I-93 North as you enter I-95/128 are gone as well. 

Were they all stolen?  Being removed on purpose by MassDOT?  Being replaced with... here's an idea... a "HISTORIC 128" shield?  (I know I'm probably really reaching with the last one, but it would explain why the directional placques remain in place. 

[bob7374]

Another Saturday, another sign replacement contract up for bid. This one for the I-95/128 between Lynnfield and Danvers, exact location cited in Special Provisions document as: "The Project is located on Interstate Route 95 and MA State Route 128, from Station 5+00 in Peabody near mile 62.5 at the interchange with US Route 1, to Station 65+00 on Interstate Route 95 in Danvers near mile 68.3; and to Station 157+17.62 on MA State Route 128 in Peabody near mile 38.7."

Bid Opening: 5/10/2022 2:00PM
Location: DANVERS - LYNNFIELD - PEABODY
Description: Guide and Traffic Sign Replacement along a Section of Interstate 95 and Route 128
District: 4 Ad Date: 3/19/2022 Section Response: Const. Project Value: $556,603.00
CDs, Plans & Specs Available: No
Federal Aid No.: HSI-0954(003)X Project Number: 609060 Project Type: Signing - Structural
No. of Addendums: 0 Date of Last Addendum: N/A

Meanwhile, a virtual public hearing will be held on March 31 to discuss the upcoming project to rehabilitate bridges at the I-95/I-90 interchange. Project details:
The proposed project consists of replacing and rehabilitating a series of eight bridges at the Interstate 90/Interstate 95 interchange (I-90/I-95). The bridges include I-90's crossing of I-95 and the Charles River, I-90 Over the Worcester Mainline commuter rail tracks just east of the Charles River, as well as ramp bridges within the I-90/I-95 interchange itself. Of the eight bridges, five will be replaced, one will be rehabilitated, and two will have their superstructure replaced. The proposed project will provide bridge and roadway safety improvements, increase vertical clearance for freight movements, improve seismic resiliency and reduce noise impacts through the installation of noise walls along I-90 in Auburndale to the project's eastern limit of work. MassDOT will use staged construction to maintain existing three lanes of I-90 during construction. The project will also use accelerated bridge replacement and offline construction.

[bob7374]

So I was on Route 128 today between the MassPike and I-93 in Reading and noticed that most of the Route 128 shields are gone... I only saw one the whole distance northbound, and that was on the C/D road between the MassPike and I-95.  The ones on the reassurance signs are gone (there is a white NORTH left behind but nothing below it), and the ones on I-93 North as you enter I-95/128 are gone as well. 

Were they all stolen?  Being removed on purpose by MassDOT?  Being replaced with... here's an idea... a "HISTORIC 128" shield?  (I know I'm probably really reaching with the last one, but it would explain why the directional placques remain in place. 

Interesting. The latest Street View images from November show the shields were present then, for those who haven't driven the route lately, here's an image from Waltham:
https://goo.gl/maps/951V27131ccniqns5

The 128 shields are rather large. Some possibilities: 1. They were having problems with these types of shields falling of posts of in the Needham and Wellesley stretch, perhaps a problem here too and so they were taken down to be fixed, 2. They are to be replaced by smaller 128 shields in a further effort to deemphasize the concurrency with I-95, or 3. Some highway shield collector is soon to have a blockbuster sale on ebay.

[MATraveler128]

Were they all stolen?  Being removed on purpose by MassDOT?  Being replaced with... here's an idea... a "HISTORIC 128" shield?  (I know I'm probably really reaching with the last one, but it would explain why the directional placques remain in place.

I have suggested something similar to that. Personally, I think that MA 128 needs to be cut back to Peabody. There's also a missing 128 marker southbound after Exit 51 just before the route 3 junction. Maybe an unsigned 128? I suspect that once signing work is completed from Reading to Lynnfield that they'll remove more of the 128 shields. It still bugs me that people still call it 128 when 95 is the more prominent number.

[kernals12]

I have to ask: was there any major controversy over running Interstate 93 straight through the middle of Middlesex Fells?

[Ted$8roadFan]

Were they all stolen?  Being removed on purpose by MassDOT?  Being replaced with... here's an idea... a "HISTORIC 128" shield?  (I know I'm probably really reaching with the last one, but it would explain why the directional placques remain in place.

I have suggested something similar to that. Personally, I think that MA 128 needs to be cut back to Peabody. There's also a missing 128 marker southbound after Exit 51 just before the route 3 junction. Maybe an unsigned 128? I suspect that once signing work is completed from Reading to Lynnfield that they'll remove more of the 128 shields. It still bugs me that people still call it 128 when 95 is the more prominent number.

Understandable that times have changed, and actual Route 128 has been scaled back since the late 80s. But to those of us of a certain age, the Circumferential Highway from Braintree to Gloucester will always be Route 128. 

[Pete from Boston]

It still bugs me that people still call it 128 when 95 is the more prominent number.

It persists because it has cultural currency. It's not a mystery why people use 128, and it's not just because of the signs. But we have the never-ending quest of the engineers to prescribe the behavior of the public rather than adapt to it.

[PurdueBill]

It still bugs me that people still call it 128 when 95 is the more prominent number.

It persists because it has cultural currency. It's not a mystery why people use 128, and it's not just because of the signs. But we have the never-ending quest of the engineers to prescribe the behavior of the public rather than adapt to it.

Indeed, it's just always going to be called 128 even though they tried to kill it.  Starting 128's mile markers in Canton so that the exits in Essex County are numbered from there on the mileage system shows a grudging acceptance of that, and I bet they don't go trying to change the exit numbers again anytime soon.

On a facebook comment thread about work in Lafayette, Indiana on Teal Road where US 52 is now routed (which makes no sense but it's been that way for a few years) it is amusing to read how many comments there are that say things to the effect of "no, 52 is the bypass and isn't on Teal; Teal is 25" and stuff which used to be true but is no more--you can move the signs and official designations around but people will call it what they call it.  (The "bypass" name dates to when Sagamore Parkway was a bypass far to the east of downtown; it's now just as congested if not more than downtown as development moved east.)  Old names/numbers die hard.

[MATraveler128]

I know MassDOT used to have mile 0 at the split in Peabody and they would count up to Gloucester. But I do agree there's no changing it now. No point renumbering exits one year after they were changed before.

[PurdueBill]

I know MassDOT used to have mile 0 at the split in Peabody and they would count up to Gloucester. But I do agree there's no changing it now. No point renumbering exits one year after they were changed before.

Indeed there are vestiges (not many) of how at one point they did re-milepost it (during the days when they posted a lot of 3-decimal-place markers at bridges and stuff) and Mile 0 was at where 95 exited 128 at onetime Exit 30N, later 44B, for US 1 NB and route 129/Goodwin Circle (to join US 1 through Peabody until the exit for itself south of Lowell Street) until the connection was completed. 
The old milemarker hanging on at the interchange overpass (0.314 mile) corresponds perfectly to the 1600+ feet from the exit.
https://goo.gl/maps/z4aN52F7gea543qL8

[pderocco]

I like the idea of an Historic Route 128 sign project. It actually is an historic route, because it was famous as a corridor for early high-tech industry, and people from all over who had never driven it had heard of it.

Of course, a road geek might regard all the surface streets that were once called route 128 as even more interesting, though they're certainly not famous.

The same issue could arise on the Southeast Expressway, since it is also a state route that has been overlaid by a more important interstate. That could be decommissioned, and the few miles that connect it to US-3 could be incorporated into US-3, or just left unnumbered. Would anyone notice?

[Pete from Boston]

The same issue could arise on the Southeast Expressway, since it is also a state route that has been overlaid by a more important interstate. That could be decommissioned, and the few miles that connect it to US-3 could be incorporated into US-3, or just left unnumbered. Would anyone notice?

I would bet that very few people consider Route 3 between Arlington and Braintree at all.

[bob7374]

The same issue could arise on the Southeast Expressway, since it is also a state route that has been overlaid by a more important interstate. That could be decommissioned, and the few miles that connect it to US-3 could be incorporated into US-3, or just left unnumbered. Would anyone notice?

I would bet that very few people consider Route 3 between Arlington and Braintree at all.

I agree, there is really no need, except for local traffic, for the current US 3 route inside 128. The major problem with truncating US 3 to Burlington and restarting the route in Braintree (or renumbering that route as an interstate, as I've stated on my route renumbering ideas website) is what to do with the 3A routes, particularly south of Boston. This makes the idea a bit more complicated than a simple route removal. 

[kramie13]

So I was on Route 128 today between the MassPike and I-93 in Reading and noticed that most of the Route 128 shields are gone... I only saw one the whole distance northbound, and that was on the C/D road between the MassPike and I-95.  The ones on the reassurance signs are gone (there is a white NORTH left behind but nothing below it), and the ones on I-93 North as you enter I-95/128 are gone as well. 

Were they all stolen?  Being removed on purpose by MassDOT?  Being replaced with... here's an idea... a "HISTORIC 128" shield?  (I know I'm probably really reaching with the last one, but it would explain why the directional placques remain in place.

There were new reassurance shields installed on that stretch of highway back in 2014/15.  Both 95 and 128 shields were installed at the time.

I was on Rte. 28 in Stoneham/Reading this morning and there were 128 shields at the on-ramps.

[Pete from Boston]

I agree, there is really no need, except for local traffic, for the current US 3 route inside 128. The major problem with truncating US 3 to Burlington and restarting the route in Braintree (or renumbering that route as an interstate, as I've stated on my route renumbering ideas website) is what to do with the 3A routes, particularly south of Boston. This makes the idea a bit more complicated than a simple route removal.

I don't think there's particular harm or confusion in ending 3 at the Braintree Split and 3A at Neponset Circle. Those routes are pretty parallel, both ending a few miles apart at 93.

I live not far from the northern part of 3 and people do occasionally refer to it as such in Arlington and Winchester where it's Mystic St./Cambridge St./Cambridge Rd., maybe because it's less confusing than three separate names for one street.

But I've never heard anyone use US/Mass. 3 as a reference anywhere else inside 128.* The only logic I can think of to continue signing it is that if you took down some of the signs you'd have to take down all of them, which would be a bigger ordeal.


* A perfect example of a geographical reference "128"  provides that "95"  does not.

[MATraveler128]

I remember there being a 128 shield on MA 138 in Milton, is it still there? I know the one on I-93 at the Braintree Split was removed, but I haven't been that way in years.

[bob7374]

I remember there being a 128 shield on MA 138 in Milton, is it still there? I know the one on I-93 at the Braintree Split was removed, but I haven't been that way in years.

There's still a North MA 128 trailblazer at the split of ramps from Washington St. in Braintree, seen in this GMSV image from December, but I saw it last Friday:
https://goo.gl/maps/vNNAkcNjG5PijdpK7

Besides the MA 128 sign be taken down, US 1 shields should be put up at this location and on the exit signs along MA 3 North.

[pderocco]

There's still a North MA 128 trailblazer at the split of ramps from Washington St. in Braintree, seen in this GMSV image from December, but I saw it last Friday:
https://goo.gl/maps/vNNAkcNjG5PijdpK7

That would be a reasonable sign if it said TO over it. A lot of people still think in terms of route 128, and might be a bit confused as to which ramp to take to get there, given that you have to go "south" on I-93 in order to get to 128 north.

[DJStephens]

I have to ask: was there any major controversy over running Interstate 93 straight through the middle of Middlesex Fells?

Would doubt that.  Much of I-93 inside 128 was constructed before 1960.  Grew up in that Boston area (1965-1993) and remembered viewing the dates on the parapets, further south, of that park, and they said "1959".   These parapets have been likely long covered by more recent guardrail extensions/and or end caps.
It took over another dozen years to finish the final section (the double decker viaduct) and open it all the way to US 1.    In hindsight, if they had planned, and finished all the "inside 128" expressways, by 1965, there might have been a complete spoke system of expressways.       

[Roadgeekteen]

I remember there being a 128 shield on MA 138 in Milton, is it still there? I know the one on I-93 at the Braintree Split was removed, but I haven't been that way in years.

There's still a North MA 128 trailblazer at the split of ramps from Washington St. in Braintree, seen in this GMSV image from December, but I saw it last Friday:
https://goo.gl/maps/vNNAkcNjG5PijdpK7

Besides the MA 128 sign be taken down, US 1 shields should be put up at this location and on the exit signs along MA 3 North.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been taken down after so many years.

[MATraveler128]

I remember there being a 128 shield on MA 138 in Milton, is it still there? I know the one on I-93 at the Braintree Split was removed, but I haven't been that way in years.

There's still a North MA 128 trailblazer at the split of ramps from Washington St. in Braintree, seen in this GMSV image from December, but I saw it last Friday:
https://goo.gl/maps/vNNAkcNjG5PijdpK7

Besides the MA 128 sign be taken down, US 1 shields should be put up at this location and on the exit signs along MA 3 North.

I'm surprised that it hasn't been taken down after so many years.

Well it's still colloquially known as 128 by older locals. Don't forget that at one time, it used to go to Nantasket along MA 3 and MA 228.