Wake me up when development of Loop 9 begins
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c2/Dallas-loop-9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/g6lZPtT.jpg)
(https://www.cedarhilledc.com/media/uploads/images/Loop%209%20Configuration%20_%20July%20Public%20Meetings.JPG)
(https://i.imgur.com/fqqA4KE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/phgwvWh.jpg)
(https://external-preview.redd.it/NGsDgHg8WX4ykzOchaz-E_BlVp8NjLUYIurK7bxP7_8.png?auto=webp&s=b1ebf33287e89152c4aea715516170b1c55ed5f8)
https://www.waxahachietx.com/news/20180829/loop-9-to-create-greater-connectivity-new-economic-opportunities-in-northern-ellis-county
I'm betting it'll be a Tollway/Toll Road, cause it can't be a new DFW highway without it being a Tollway, right?
The bottom attachment indicates it would be a "tollway" .
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 10, 2021, 10:43:16 PM
The bottom attachment indicates it would be a "tollway" .
i know that, as i looked up the image after i made the quote in the OP (original post)
Why the hell do they need this? In 50 years they'll be proposing their 30th loop thinking that's going to somehow solve their traffic problem.
Pixel 5
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 10, 2021, 10:52:00 PM
Why the hell do they need this? In 50 years they'll be proposing their 30th loop thinking that's going to somehow solve their traffic problem.
Pixel 5
The northern portion is needed yesterday, particularly along US-380.
This is what happens when you
don't build infrastructure and growth still comes. You need these roads to keep up, which is why it's proposed.
Quote from: TheBox on June 10, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
Wake me up when development of Loop 9 begins
I'm betting it'll be a Tollway/Toll Road, cause it can't be a new DFW highway without it being a Tollway, right?
Wake up!
TxDOT receives bids next month for an estimated $101 million contract for new frontage roads between IH-35E and IH-45 south of Dallas. Plans are posted on the TxDOT website.
https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/dallas.htm#296410008 (https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/dallas.htm#296410008)
In north Collin County, a section of frontage road for the Collin Country outer loop has been open for several years. Right-of-way acquisition for the section from US 75 to the Dallas North Tollway is in progress. See details
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Jwdx1iubx2unUZRRHnREtHrPaWF11p-eq0f5KnnXBP5lgYGSRx-NK7-bm8FC6OHW74A2TMBtzwA1Q6gKiDdAuP04rPmTUFMI5w0pbDQ5fv0aq_4hLxnwrYfcJl3P6CzwAl2e_lOUZkrnkOuRWagrAvx3OGEC-svOepF5wwYd_gl06fdHK-XVUQOqHaabH2c9bi_6veZFvXoNImFVxN7m_CYIxQSVDkMelpIwt-7TiwHREUH4tXViGSKk_PeWONZQ0AxDLh5LMBV9FbUmhFpgcSSj1N6YFu8AJO_3Sb0Gg7aLB_DOm6yK6w==&c=XiZyaTpGeXqloNW5n4eXnynUEKmLbaYJzr1aphUq_FmBr1ajdojT2A==&ch=abZxvBXzI_1B-4Esg22Ih_rGva6PxdFOMuj_2rt3KnDUuapFPKMqWg== (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Jwdx1iubx2unUZRRHnREtHrPaWF11p-eq0f5KnnXBP5lgYGSRx-NK7-bm8FC6OHW74A2TMBtzwA1Q6gKiDdAuP04rPmTUFMI5w0pbDQ5fv0aq_4hLxnwrYfcJl3P6CzwAl2e_lOUZkrnkOuRWagrAvx3OGEC-svOepF5wwYd_gl06fdHK-XVUQOqHaabH2c9bi_6veZFvXoNImFVxN7m_CYIxQSVDkMelpIwt-7TiwHREUH4tXViGSKk_PeWONZQ0AxDLh5LMBV9FbUmhFpgcSSj1N6YFu8AJO_3Sb0Gg7aLB_DOm6yK6w==&c=XiZyaTpGeXqloNW5n4eXnynUEKmLbaYJzr1aphUq_FmBr1ajdojT2A==&ch=abZxvBXzI_1B-4Esg22Ih_rGva6PxdFOMuj_2rt3KnDUuapFPKMqWg==)
The current plan is for Loop 9 to be toll free, but of course that could change in the future.
QuoteI'm betting it'll be a Tollway / Toll Road, cause it can't be a new DFW highway without it being a Tollway, Right?
Right.
QuoteThe bottom attachment indicates it would be a “Tollway”.
Good.
QuoteWhy the hell do they need this?
Toll Roads are necessary.
QuoteThis is what happens when you don’t build infrastructure and growth still comes. You need these roads to keep up, which is why it’s proposed.
That is one reason why Toll Roads are necessary. The traffic doubles by the time they have their first meeting planning them.
QuoteThe current plan is for Loop 9 to be toll free, but of course that could change in the future.
I hope they change in future.
^
What is the major benefit of toll roads over free roads that you are heavily advocating for?
I think Texas is getting away from the toll road trend overall though... which is a good thing. It's a miracle San Antonio has avoided the tolling era all together.
sprawl continues
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
Sprawl continues regardless of whether there's a freeway there or not. Look at Tucson and the northern suburbs of Atlanta.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 11, 2021, 02:57:17 AM
^
What is the major benefit of toll roads over free roads that you are heavily advocating for?
I think Texas is getting away from the toll road trend overall though… which is a good thing. It’s a miracle San Antonio has avoided the tolling era all together.
In addition to my earlier post, Free Roads are not exactly Free. They require Various Taxes which people like to Nit Pick about over and over again. At the same time they do not ever complain about the silly U.S.P.S., and also The Rival Heavier Than Air Craft People. Both places are much more "Burdens Of Grandchildren", yet the only fuss is about Road, Rail, Bridges, and Tunnels. People even want them removed (!) despite being Necessary Traffic Control. "Corrupt" Toll Agencies That Keep The Roads Tolled provide maintenance and upgrades and expansions and extensions of more Roads even if they are Tolled.
From my experience, people tend to complain about both, but more so tolls than taxes, especially in the long run. I'd rather see a tax increase and tax dollars put to good use completing necessary projects without tolls, rather than still paying taxes and then also having to pay tolls on facilities to drive.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
Again, sprawl has already well happened along the US-380 corridor yet it hasn't been upgraded to freeway.
It's going to happen regardless, which you seem to keep ignoring. Better to build up the infrastructure when the land is available vs. a situation like US-380 today where right of way is limited.
While there may be argument over the toll roads, look at the Free Roads that were there before the tollways. Look at the current free roads (the frontage roads) that are there after. The free roads are far better and even with the inherent stop lights on the frontage roads, all in all you still get from point A to point B along the current (free) frontage roads as fast or faster than you did the previous 2-lane roads.
Quote from: sprjus4 on June 11, 2021, 12:35:15 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
Again, sprawl has already well happened along the US-380 corridor yet it hasn't been upgraded to freeway.
It's going to happen regardless, which you seem to keep ignoring. Better to build up the infrastructure when the land is available vs. a situation like US-380 today where right of way is limited.
There are Construction Cranes every where along U.S. 380 which is going to increase the traffic.
Another example of a nightmare is Walmart on the corner of Custer Road and U.S. 380 has no adequate way to go west. I drove across one carriage way, stopped in front of traffic waiting to Turn Left, and wait for The Fast Lane Westbound to be Clear. Dedicated Grade Separated Turnaround Lanes are preferable.
In some areas There Is Still Time to Preserve The Space, but other areas such as where that Walmart is located, Time Ran Out.
Also, They most certainly have the Frontage Roads option to Shunpike the Dallas North Tollway. They even build them first!
Quote from: MaxConcrete on June 10, 2021, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: TheBox on June 10, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
Wake me up when development of Loop 9 begins
I'm betting it'll be a Tollway/Toll Road, cause it can't be a new DFW highway without it being a Tollway, right?
Wake up!
TxDOT receives bids next month for an estimated $101 million contract for new frontage roads between IH-35E and IH-45 south of Dallas. Plans are posted on the TxDOT website.
https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/dallas.htm#296410008 (https://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/let/2021/dallas.htm#296410008)
In north Collin County, a section of frontage road for the Collin Country outer loop has been open for several years. Right-of-way acquisition for the section from US 75 to the Dallas North Tollway is in progress. See details
http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Jwdx1iubx2unUZRRHnREtHrPaWF11p-eq0f5KnnXBP5lgYGSRx-NK7-bm8FC6OHW74A2TMBtzwA1Q6gKiDdAuP04rPmTUFMI5w0pbDQ5fv0aq_4hLxnwrYfcJl3P6CzwAl2e_lOUZkrnkOuRWagrAvx3OGEC-svOepF5wwYd_gl06fdHK-XVUQOqHaabH2c9bi_6veZFvXoNImFVxN7m_CYIxQSVDkMelpIwt-7TiwHREUH4tXViGSKk_PeWONZQ0AxDLh5LMBV9FbUmhFpgcSSj1N6YFu8AJO_3Sb0Gg7aLB_DOm6yK6w==&c=XiZyaTpGeXqloNW5n4eXnynUEKmLbaYJzr1aphUq_FmBr1ajdojT2A==&ch=abZxvBXzI_1B-4Esg22Ih_rGva6PxdFOMuj_2rt3KnDUuapFPKMqWg== (http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001Jwdx1iubx2unUZRRHnREtHrPaWF11p-eq0f5KnnXBP5lgYGSRx-NK7-bm8FC6OHW74A2TMBtzwA1Q6gKiDdAuP04rPmTUFMI5w0pbDQ5fv0aq_4hLxnwrYfcJl3P6CzwAl2e_lOUZkrnkOuRWagrAvx3OGEC-svOepF5wwYd_gl06fdHK-XVUQOqHaabH2c9bi_6veZFvXoNImFVxN7m_CYIxQSVDkMelpIwt-7TiwHREUH4tXViGSKk_PeWONZQ0AxDLh5LMBV9FbUmhFpgcSSj1N6YFu8AJO_3Sb0Gg7aLB_DOm6yK6w==&c=XiZyaTpGeXqloNW5n4eXnynUEKmLbaYJzr1aphUq_FmBr1ajdojT2A==&ch=abZxvBXzI_1B-4Esg22Ih_rGva6PxdFOMuj_2rt3KnDUuapFPKMqWg==)
The current plan is for Loop 9 to be toll free, but of course that could change in the future.
TxDOT must have seriously advanced the Loop 9 project on the south end. Previous schedules had its letting in September 2022. They must've found the funding somewhere. And I thought Section A (the part between US 67 and I-35E) was going to be built first – those scoping meetings and public meetings were held more than a year ago.
The Collin County Outer Loop frontage road project is progressing. The roadway is open connecting Preston Road and the future Dallas North Tollway, and an extension east connecting Preston with Custer Road should be open by Labor Day (my guess based on progress). But I don't think TxDOT is involved in the Outer Loop project.
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
As it should.
makes sense to have this opinion living in one of the most poorly designed cities in America.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2021, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
As it should.
makes sense to have this opinion living in one of the most poorly designed cities in America.
Ah, ad hominem, the cornerstone of any educated response.
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 14, 2021, 09:13:30 PM
Quote from: Plutonic Panda on June 11, 2021, 12:44:52 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on June 11, 2021, 08:18:47 AM
sprawl continues
As it should.
makes sense to have this opinion living in one of the most poorly designed cities in America.
Sprawl will continue regardless, have you realized this?
A new article or two from......months ago if not a year ago
https://www.ketr.org/news/2023-01-02/rockwall-county-working-out-details-of-outer-loop-in-eastern-part-of-county
https://dentonrc.com/news/could-residents-concerns-mean-rocky-road-ahead-for-dfw-regional-outer-loop/article_3176a935-a168-5e3b-a474-e9f6f94c90ed.html
https://www.focusdailynews.com/loop-9-segment-a-from-us-67-to-i-35e-public-hearings/
https://www.waxahachiesun.com/business/public-hearing-for-proposed-loop-9-segment-a-in-dallas-and-ellis-counties/article_4a81ece6-7a65-11ed-ab3b-4ffcd650ef3e.html
Y'all forgot this proposed Loop 9 exists and so did I
Is the Loop 9 beltway ever going to be constructed? It does seem like a proposal worthy of Fictional Highways. If it is constructed, it would likely take decades to complete. It should be a toll road, like the TX 99 Grand Parkway. I wonder if Loop 9 will run into the same issues that have plagued the Grand Parkway from being fully completed.
I think the only "bones" of Loop 9 being put into place so far is the two disconnected segments of the Colin County Outer Loop a little North of McKinney. Those are just 2-lane access roads with swaths of empty ROW preserved off to the side.
If the toll road agencies involved in Loop 9 want to have any hope at all of completing this thing they need to get on the ball ASAP. The first step is doing like they're doing North of McKinney. Just get a 2-lane road put down to preserve the future toll road ROW off to the side. If they fart around build individual portions to completion one segment at a time the whole thing will never get finished.
There is also the section of loop 9 from I35E to I45 under construction they have opened a section of this phase starting at the northbound service road and going east. Google streetview on the northbound mainlanes shows it open as of 4 months ago.
Quote from: motorola870 on November 21, 2023, 05:34:10 AM
There is also the section of loop 9 from I35E to I45 under construction they have opened a section of this phase starting at the northbound service road and going east. Google streetview on the northbound mainlanes shows it open as of 4 months ago.
Is it labeled Tater Brown Road on Google Maps?
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5463166,-96.8146757,16.71z?entry=ttu
It overlaps Tater Brown Road from I-35E for about half a mile before diverting Northward on its own path. In Google Earth you have to turn on the Historical Imagery slider and shift to 7/2023 imagery to see the new construction. It is not visible in the default overhead imagery view.
Quote from: BJ59 on November 21, 2023, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: motorola870 on November 21, 2023, 05:34:10 AM
There is also the section of loop 9 from I35E to I45 under construction they have opened a section of this phase starting at the northbound service road and going east. Google streetview on the northbound mainlanes shows it open as of 4 months ago.
Is it labeled Tater Brown Road on Google Maps?
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5463166,-96.8146757,16.71z?entry=ttu
Yup.
I was impressed with the 1+ mile long bridge at the east end as it approaches I-45.
I noticed all the support beams for that bridge on the way to Houston a while back and didn't know what they were. I did not know those were for the future Loop 9. Very cool
Quote from: BJ59 on November 21, 2023, 01:28:23 PM
Quote from: motorola870 on November 21, 2023, 05:34:10 AM
There is also the section of loop 9 from I35E to I45 under construction they have opened a section of this phase starting at the northbound service road and going east. Google streetview on the northbound mainlanes shows it open as of 4 months ago.
Is it labeled Tater Brown Road on Google Maps?
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5463166,-96.8146757,16.71z?entry=ttu
Yep. And if one goes to Google Earth and switches to the latest images (07/23) one can see the entire route from I-35E to I-45 is nearing phase 1 completion, except for the final 2 miles west of I-45. Those final 2 miles will be entirely on a bridge! Google Streetview from the west end of that bridge:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5545038,-96.6989358,3a,51.4y,72.51h,86.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2pEFEBaXQ3sdijGcBeoNJA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5545038,-96.6989358,3a,51.4y,72.51h,86.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2pEFEBaXQ3sdijGcBeoNJA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
I-45 end looking west:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5608717,-96.6648804,3a,53.8y,273.61h,89.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa7Hft06f1d5Azt0mMmrwaw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Da7Hft06f1d5Azt0mMmrwaw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.98544%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu (https://www.google.com/maps/@32.5608717,-96.6648804,3a,53.8y,273.61h,89.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sa7Hft06f1d5Azt0mMmrwaw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3Da7Hft06f1d5Azt0mMmrwaw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D355.98544%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu)
Bids were opened yesterday for work at I-35E and Loop 9, south of Dallas. The online plans show that most of this work is on I-35E, with minimal work on Loop 9. This job appears to prepare I-35E for the interchange, and defines the configuration and right-of-way for the ultimate Loop 9 main lanes.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/02013001.htm (http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/02013001.htm)
County: ELLIS Let Date: 02/01/24
Type: RECONSTRUCT INTERCHANGE Seq No: 3001
Time: 0 X Project ID: F 2024(737)
Highway: IH 35E Contract #: 02243001
Length: 0.000 CCSJ: 0442-03-042
Limits:
From: IH 35E AT FM 664 Check: $100,000
To: & IH 35E AT SL 9 Misc Cost:
Estimate $127,632,940.85 % Over/Under Company
Bidder 1 $146,081,306.28 +14.45% FLATIRON CONSTRUCTORS, INC.
Bidder 2 $147,149,991.40 +15.29% WEBBER, LLC
Bidder 3 $147,947,937.56 +15.92% INDUS ROAD & BRIDGE, INC.
$150 million? Just to prep I-35E for a directional interchange? I wonder if that will include the beginnings of any ramps. $150 million would be a lot just to build what will probably be a partial volleyball interchange.
Hopefully they do another bid soon for the interchange at the other end of the road. Might aswell do both interchanges so other loop segments have a starting base to start from. For example loop c can use the interchange as a visual base of how the road should be connected.
They have detailed plans for the main lanes and interchanges that will eventually be built. Right now their top concern needs to be corridor preservation. That can be done by merely building a 2-lane road with a swath of empty ROW preserved next to it. Such a thing can be built in a relatively short amount of time for not all that much money. It locks the super highway's ROW in place, protected from jackasses that want to build new things all over it. The initial 2-lane road would eventually be turned into one of two frontage roads. Or it might be one of the two primary roadways if there are no frontage roads on that segment.
Couldn't even purchase the row without needing to build anything?
If they just purchase the land and leave it vacant that will always leave open the possibility some media whore politician and scumbag real estate developer will pull a fast one and build over that land anyway. Or some progressive activists will insist the vacant property be turned into park land, green space, bicycle paths, etc. Jerks on both sides of the political aisle have no problem sabotaging long term infrastructure plans in return for short term gain.
To preserve a future freeway or toll road corridor properly there at least needs to be a 2-lane road marking the path permanently (with that vacant land secured off to the side). I know even that isn't a guarantee. But if there is at least a road of some type marking the path the general public will anticipate the big highway being built there eventually.
I was using SOAR Imagery and it looks the both bridges are fully paved. Google maps hasn't updated the street view.
Yes is labeled for that so it can be changed to loop 9 once finished. :poke: