Major League sports expansion sites

[Desert Man]

What if by 2027, the big 4 - Major League Baseball (MLB), National Football League (NFL), National Basketball Association (NBA) and National Hockey League (NHL) decided to expand up to 38 teams each? The lucky number - and enough to fill the 30-35 largest sports markets in the USA+Canada?

MLB EXPANSION TEAMS:
Austin Colts (NL), Brooklyn Robins (AL), Buffalo Bisons (NL), Montreal Expos (NL), New Orleans Bobcats (AL), Orlando Alligators (NL), Portland Beavers (AL), and Sacramento Golden Retrievers (AL).
These cities tried to get a MLB team for years or decades. Austin has a triple-A team the Round Rock Express. Brooklyn wants the Mets and Yanks approve a 3rd baseball team in NYC, like until 1958 as the Dodgers left for LA, Buffalo had a team a century ago before disbanding by WW1, the first MLB team outside the US was the original Expos in Montreal (1969-2005) now the Washington Nationals, New Orleans renovated their superdome for the Saints NFL team, Orlando attempted to get a MLB team (as recently as the Houston Astros and Tampa Bay Rays), Portland like Orlando has no minor league baseball team (other than in nearby areas) and Sacramento either gets the A's out of Oakland or get their own.

NFL EXPANSION TEAMS (note petitions in Oakland to keep the Raiders and court cases to bring back the Chargers to San Diego is possible):
Birmingham Bolts (NC), Chicago Hound-Dogs (AC), Las Vegas Locos (AC), Los Angeles Sharks (AC), St. Louis Stallions (NC) and San Antonio Oilers (AC).
Birmingham had 4 or 5 pro football teams but never in the NFL, Chicago tries to get a 2nd NFL team (the last time was in 1950), Las Vegas is worthy for expansion, L.A. is big enough for a 2nd NFL team, St. Louis tries again for the 4th time (formerly had the Gunners, Cardinals and Rams), and San Antonio briefly had the NFL Saints after New Orleans recovers from Hurricane Katrina.
Unless the CFL approves: the Toronto Wolfpack (NC). And in Mexico, Los Coyotes del Mexico (NC).

NBA EXPANSION TEAMS:
Cincinnati-Kentucky Colonels (EC), Kansas City (Bob)Cats (WC), Las Vegas Vipers (WC), New Jersey Swamp Dragons (EC), Pittsburgh Power (EC), San Diego Dolphins (WC), Seattle SuperSonics (WC), and Virginia Beach Squires (EC).
KFC wanted to own a NBA team in Louisville, Robert Katz might create a new team in Kansas City or Omaha (they had the Kings, 1972-84), Las Vegas hosted the 2007 NBA all-star game despite not  in the league, New Jersey had the Nets before they went to Brooklyn (maybe they and the Knicks will approve), Pittsburgh natives Mark Cuban (currently owner of the Dallas Mavericks) and Lakers fan Christina Aguilera bring the NBA to the burg, San Diego's 4th attempt in basketball (formerly had the Clippers, 1976-83 and Rockets, 1967-72), Seattle's 2nd supersonics-their original left in 2008 to become the Oklahoma City Thunder, and Virginia Beach-Norfolk's first major league sports team since 1976.

NHL EXPANSION TEAMS (currently 31 with the new Vegas Golden Knights in WC):
Atlanta Thrashers (EC), Hartford or Connecticut Whale (EC), Houston Wolfpack (WC), Kansas City Scouts (WC), Quebec City (Les Nordiques du Quebec) (EC), Saskatoon or Saskatchewan Blizzard (WC), and Seattle Bullfrogs (WC) - the NHL moves the Nashville Predators to EC.
Atlanta's 3rd team after the Flames, 1972-79 went to Calgary and the Thrashers, 1999-2011, 2nd NHL team in Hartford-the Whalers, 1972-97 relocated to Carolina (the Hurricanes), Houston is the largest city in North America without the NHL, either the Scouts play in Kansas City, KS (not MO) or Topeka (KS), the return of the Nordiques, 1972-95, Saskatoon made a failed proposal for the St. Louis Blues to move there in 1982, and Seattle was part of the original Stanley Cup NHL a century ago.

I like this one, but not real likely:
Nova Scotia or Halifax Highlanders (EC). all of Canada is covered with a team in Nova Scotia.

Hopefully the US economy improves for another decade, as well the Canadian dollar do pretty well. I don't believe the NFL will expand to London nor all of Europe, NBA in Vancouver again (or in Hawaii - the LA Lakers train in Honolulu), MLB in Mexico or Puerto Rico, and NHL's 2nd team idea in Toronto area (Hamilton). I can see Aurora IL - the state's 2nd largest city build a new arena for the Chicagoland metro area, but the Bulls (NBA) and BlackHawks (NHL) is quite enough. The Aurora Aliens (NHL) - named for being near the Enrico Fermi NASA facility and National Laboratory in Aurora IL...and the Chicago Knights (NBA) - named for Chicagoland as if it was a kingdom.       

[Takumi]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

[Road Hog]

Really I don't see ANY of the North American pro leagues expanding past 32. That number provides the best symmetry for scheduling, as the NFL shows. A 33rd team in the NFL would throw conferences and divisions out of whack and upset the schedule rotation that's been in place since the league last expanded.

As far as expanding to 32 for the other leagues, I don't have a problem with it. A 32-team MLB would solve the problem of interleague games every night. Plus you can end this wild card mess and have four true champions in the division playoffs.

[DTComposer]

First, as mentioned above, expanding beyond 32 makes things messy division and schedule-wise. Second, while I think the talent-dilution argument doesn't make statistical sense, I do think adding between six and eight teams in each league over the next ten years would certainly mean a noticeable drop in quality of play for at least the ten years following.

Third, about half of the markets you mention already borderline too small in terms of market size, plus in terms of population growth they are relatively stagnant or even shrinking: Buffalo, New Orleans, Birmingham, St. Louis, Cincinnati, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Hartford.

I can see 32 teams in each league:

NHL: Hartford or Quebec
MLB: (pick two) Portland, Charlotte, or San Antonio/Austin
NBA: (pick two) Seattle, Norfolk, Las Vegas, or Kansas City

If the NBA and the NFL both ended up in Las Vegas, I could see the NHL team relocating within a few years after.

[Bruce]

MLS is expanding to 28 teams over the next few seasons, and is expected to announce teams 25 to 28 next year. The official bids: Miami (Beckham's bid, pretty much guaranteed to be number 24); Charlotte; Cincinnati; Detroit; Indianapolis; Nashville; Phoenix; Raleigh; Sacramento; San Antonio; San Diego; St. Louis; and Tampa.

I think Cincinnati, Phoenix, Sacramento, and Tampa have the best chances of winning, based on support of their lower-division teams and strong market potential.

[Road Hog]

The Columbus Crew has announced it's moving to Austin in 2019, so scratch San Antonio.

[nexus73]

A recent article I read about MLB mentioned how the commish wanted to see the PNW get another team.  That means PDX or bust.  Since MLS took over the baseball stadium and remodeled it instead of building a proper soccer facility, it will be interesting to see how the Rose City sorts out the stadium situation.  If I was doing the deciding, the former baseball stadium would be repurposed for that once more with additional seating meant to bring up the number to 35K-40K, then a new soccer stadium seating 40K would get built where a derelict greyhound racing track now is.  Build the soccer stadium with a mind towards the future in case pro football wants to come into town.

Rick

[Desert Man]

i]MLS is expanding to 28 teams over the next few seasons, and is expected to announce teams 25 to 28 next year. The official bids: Miami (Beckham's bid, pretty much guaranteed to be number 24); Charlotte; Cincinnati; Detroit; Indianapolis; Nashville; Phoenix; Raleigh; Sacramento; San Antonio; San Diego; St. Louis; and Tampa.

I think Cincinnati, Phoenix, Sacramento, and Tampa have the best chances of winning, based on support of their lower-division teams and strong market potential.

The Columbus Crew has announced it's moving to Austin in 2019, so scratch San Antonio.[/i]

OK then, I theorized a second MLS team in Arizona before: Mesa or Tucson, because the Phoenix metro area, like Houston, is expected to surpass the current 3rd largest city - Chicago, IL in 2026. Current US megalopolis (or enlarged metropolis) areas with 2 or more teams per sport are 1. New York City (3 NHL, 2 MLB, 2 NFL, 2 NBA and 2 MLS), 2. Los Angeles (now 2 NFL, 2 MLB, 2 NBA, 2 NHL and 2 MLS), 3. San Francisco Bay area ( 2- soon to 1 NFL, 2 MLB, 1 NBA+1 in Sacramento, and 1 NHL and 1 MLS-in San Jose), 4. Chicago (2 MLB, 1 NFL, 1 NBA, 1 NHL and 1 MLS), and 5. Washington DC- Baltimore MD (2 NFL, 2 MLB, 1 NBA, 1 NHL and 1 MLS). Columbus OH - caught between Cincinnati and Cleveland, will get a lower-level soccer team then. And Raleigh NC is between charlotte and Norfolk-Virginia Beach, which has an interest in Major League Soccer.

[Bruce]

The Columbus Crew has announced it's moving to Austin in 2019, so scratch San Antonio.

It's not guaranteed, as it relies on both Austin gifting the team a stadium AND the support of other MLS owners. The public pushback has been very strong, with Columbus-area businesses and other MLS teams getting involved.

A recent article I read about MLB mentioned how the commish wanted to see the PNW get another team.  That means PDX or bust.  Since MLS took over the baseball stadium and remodeled it instead of building a proper soccer facility, it will be interesting to see how the Rose City sorts out the stadium situation.  If I was doing the deciding, the former baseball stadium would be repurposed for that once more with additional seating meant to bring up the number to 35K-40K, then a new soccer stadium seating 40K would get built where a derelict greyhound racing track now is.  Build the soccer stadium with a mind towards the future in case pro football wants to come into town.

Rick

MLS doesn't want to jump to stadiums that big that soon for a city like Portland (though the support can probably sustain 35K attendances). And the Timbers really do belong in the old Civic Stadium and nowhere else. It would be hard for them to move from their long-time home.

OK then, I theorized a second MLS team in Arizona before: Mesa or Tucson, because the Phoenix metro area, like Houston, is expected to surpass the current 3rd largest city - Chicago, IL in 2026. And Raleigh NC is between charlotte and Norfolk-Virginia Beach, which has an interest in Major League Soccer.

MLS is not going to give Arizona two teams at once. And cities that aren't bidding now will not see MLS. Better hope for a USL expansion.

[ilpt4u]

I can see Aurora IL - the state's 2nd largest city build a new arena for the Chicagoland metro area, but the Bulls (NBA) and BlackHawks (NHL) is quite enough. The Aurora Aliens (NHL) - named for being near the Enrico Fermi NASA facility in Aurora IL...and the Chicago Knights (NBA) - named for Chicagoland as if it was a kingdom.       

Aurora is the 2nd largest city (by population), but Fermilab is a Depart of Energy facility, last I checked, not NASA. Famous for a Particle Accelerator and Atom Smashing, and also having a herd of Buffalo on the grounds of the facility

So I would rather see the Aurora Atoms or Aurora Buffalo.

Fermilab, I believe, is mostly in Batavia/Kane County

All that said, I'd sooner see a 2nd Chicagoland Hockey team at one of the existing Arenas -- either out in Rosemont/O'Hare area at the Allstate Arena, or in Hoffman Estates at the Sears Center. But I don't see the Blackhawks being in a big hurry to share the Market.

I would almost see Milwaukee, or possibly Green Bay or Madison, as a Hockey city before a 2nd Chicago team -- due to not fighting existing Primary Market teams, as the Blackhawks and Wild are both far enough away

[Desert Man]

I can see Aurora IL - the state's 2nd largest city build a new arena for the Chicagoland metro area, but the Bulls (NBA) and BlackHawks (NHL) is quite enough. The Aurora Aliens (NHL) - named for being near the Enrico Fermi NASA facility in Aurora IL...and the Chicago Knights (NBA) - named for Chicagoland as if it was a kingdom.       

Aurora is the 2nd largest city (by population), but Fermilab is a Depart of Energy facility, last I checked, not NASA. Famous for a Particle Accelerator and Atom Smashing, and also having a herd of Buffalo on the grounds of the facility

So I would rather see the Aurora Atoms or Aurora Buffalo.

Fermilab, I believe, is mostly in Batavia/Kane County

All that said, I'd sooner see a 2nd Chicagoland Hockey team at one of the existing Arenas -- either out in Rosemont/O'Hare area at the Allstate Arena, or in Hoffman Estates at the Sears Center. But I don't see the Blackhawks being in a big hurry to share the Market.

I would almost see Milwaukee, or possibly Green Bay or Madison, as a Hockey city before a 2nd Chicago team -- due to not fighting existing Primary Market teams, as the Blackhawks and Wild are both far enough away

Yes, Aurora IL has a bigger chance for a NBA team than New Jersey (the NY Knicks and Brooklyn Nets may object) and a NHL team than Saskatchewan (Aurora has more people in its metropolis). The Chicagoland metro area is among the largest in the country. And Aurora is in Kane county (its seat) - only 30 some miles west of Chicago.

[Alps]

A recent article I read about MLB mentioned how the commish wanted to see the PNW get another team.  That means PDX or bust.

*shrug* It takes a vote of team owners, and if they don't like the metrics, doesn't matter what anyone says up top. I think a third Texas team makes a lot of sense, but beyond that? Maybe Charlotte. Mayyyybe. I'm not convinced.

[1995hoo]

A recent article I read about MLB mentioned how the commish wanted to see the PNW get another team.  That means PDX or bust.  ....

Or Vancouver, though I haven't heard any talk of it.

[ET21]

I can see Aurora IL - the state's 2nd largest city build a new arena for the Chicagoland metro area, but the Bulls (NBA) and BlackHawks (NHL) is quite enough. The Aurora Aliens (NHL) - named for being near the Enrico Fermi NASA facility in Aurora IL...and the Chicago Knights (NBA) - named for Chicagoland as if it was a kingdom.       

Aurora is the 2nd largest city (by population), but Fermilab is a Depart of Energy facility, last I checked, not NASA. Famous for a Particle Accelerator and Atom Smashing, and also having a herd of Buffalo on the grounds of the facility

So I would rather see the Aurora Atoms or Aurora Buffalo.

Fermilab, I believe, is mostly in Batavia/Kane County

All that said, I'd sooner see a 2nd Chicagoland Hockey team at one of the existing Arenas -- either out in Rosemont/O'Hare area at the Allstate Arena, or in Hoffman Estates at the Sears Center. But I don't see the Blackhawks being in a big hurry to share the Market.

I would almost see Milwaukee, or possibly Green Bay or Madison, as a Hockey city before a 2nd Chicago team -- due to not fighting existing Primary Market teams, as the Blackhawks and Wild are both far enough away

Yes, Aurora IL has a bigger chance for a NBA team than New Jersey (the NY Knicks and Brooklyn Nets may object) and a NHL team than Saskatchewan (Aurora has more people in its metropolis). The Chicagoland metro area is among the largest in the country. And Aurora is in Kane county (its seat) - only 30 some miles west of Chicago.

I-88 rivalry

[SP Cook]

The only league with any possible expansion capability is the NHL.  No league will allow additional teams in existing markets.  The NHL does not have teams in several large southern cities, plus, assuming the Canadian economy does not tank as it looks like it is doing, it can return to several Canadian metros as well.

[Henry]

The only league with any possible expansion capability is the NHL.  No league will allow additional teams in existing markets.  The NHL does not have teams in several large southern cities, plus, assuming the Canadian economy does not tank as it looks like it is doing, it can return to several Canadian metros as well.

The Vegas Golden Knights started play this season, and I'm suspecting that the 32nd team will join within the next few seasons.

[Max Rockatansky]

St. Louis?   The Metro Area has 3 million people and doesn't have an NFL or NBA team anymore.  Hasn't there been rumors about the NFL possibly relocating the Chargers back to San Diego given the disaster it has been so far in Los Angeles?

[AsphaltPlanet]

The only league with any possible expansion capability is the NHL.  No league will allow additional teams in existing markets.  The NHL does not have teams in several large southern cities, plus, assuming the Canadian economy does not tank as it looks like it is doing, it can return to several Canadian metros as well.

huh?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy-blows-past-expectations-creates-35000-jobs-in-october/article36823828/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&;

[DTComposer]

the Phoenix metro area, like Houston, is expected to surpass the current 3rd largest city - Chicago, IL in 2026.

Source, please? This would mean the Houston area would have an annual growth rate of 16.5% for the next nine years (current annual growth rate is 1.6%), and the Phoenix area would have an annual growth rate of 24.6% (current annual growth rate is 1.2%).

Washington-Baltimore will likely pass Chicago by 2026, but the next closest region (Bay Area) will still be a million people behind, and the region after that (Dallas-Fort Worth) will still be two million behind. No one else will be close.

[tchafe1978]

Milwaukee was talked about back in the late 1980s as a possible expansion city for the NHL. The Bradley Center was built in 1988 with the hopes of attracting an NHL franchise, either relocation or expansion. But I don't believe a viable ownership group ever materialized, and the Blackhawks of course objected to Milwaukee having a team, as that would cut into their fan base and market share. The enthusiasm for hockey certainly exists in Milwaukee and Wisconsin, as the AHL's Admirals and the Badgers hockey teams are well-followed and attended. There was even some renewal of talk about an NHL team in Milwaukee with the building of the Bucks' new arena. However it was never serious talk, and I don't see it happening in the future. Milwaukee certainly supports its two current major sports teams, the Bucks and Brewers, along with the Packers of course, but I don't think the Milwaukee market is large enough to support another team.

[dvferyance]

St. Louis?   The Metro Area has 3 million people and doesn't have an NFL or NBA team anymore.  Hasn't there been rumors about the NFL possibly relocating the Chargers back to San Diego given the disaster it has been so far in Los Angeles?

They may leave LA but get over the fact they are not going back to San Diego. They will take a look at San Antonio or Portland.

[KeithE4Phx]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

Mighty Manfred the Wondercommissioner has made it clear that he wants teams in Montreal and Portland OR, and soon.  But expansion beyond 30 teams is unlikely -- not enough talent for 32.  Two of the following three teams with ballpark issues would more likely be moved:  Oakland, Tampa Bay, Arizona.

As far as the other leagues go:

NFL:  King Roger is hellbent on putting a team in London, but expansion is also highly unlikely.  The Jaguars or Chargers are more likely to move there, if any team does.  The Raiders are already headed for Lost Wages, so they're out of the question.  32 teams is ideal for the NFL, anyway.

NBA:  Expansion?!?  The quality of play in that league is so pathetic, they should contract rather than expand.  There aren't enough good players to support 24 teams right now, let alone 30.  Get rid of the small-market teams that generate zero interest to the NBA's core urban, mostly-affluent audience and the advertisers that target them.  They need great teams in NY, LA (specifically the Lakers), and Chicago, not Utah, San Antonio, and OKC, no matter how good the latter three teams have been over the years.  The NBA is a big-city league that needs its great players in those top media markets.

NHL:  They've talked about Quebec City, London ON, Portland OR, and yet another go of it in Atlanta (why bother?), but they also don't need to expand.  If anything, they could stand to drop a team, specifically the Arizona Coyotes, who are pathetic and have had arena issues ever since they moved to Phoenix from Winnipeg.   Hockey doesn't work on the west side, and there are no prospects for a new arena in the Mesa or downtown Phoenix areas since their proposed deal with ASU fell through.

[Desert Man]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

Mighty Manfred the Wondercommissioner has made it clear that he wants teams in Montreal and Portland OR, and soon.  But expansion beyond 30 teams is unlikely -- not enough talent for 32.  Two of the following three teams with ballpark issues would more likely be moved:  Oakland, Tampa Bay, Arizona.

As far as the other leagues go:

NFL:  King Roger is hellbent on putting a team in London, but expansion is also highly unlikely.  The Jaguars or Chargers are more likely to move there, if any team does.  The Raiders are already headed for Lost Wages, so they're out of the question.  32 teams is ideal for the NFL, anyway.

NBA:  Expansion?!?  The quality of play in that league is so pathetic, they should contract rather than expand.  There aren't enough good players to support 24 teams right now, let alone 30.  Get rid of the small-market teams that generate zero interest to the NBA's core urban, mostly-affluent audience and the advertisers that target them.  They need great teams in NY, LA (specifically the Lakers), and Chicago, not Utah, San Antonio, and OKC, no matter how good the latter three teams have been over the years.  The NBA is a big-city league that needs its great players in those top media markets.

NHL:  They've talked about Quebec City, London ON, Portland OR, and yet another go of it in Atlanta (why bother?), but they also don't need to expand.  If anything, they could stand to drop a team, specifically the Arizona Coyotes, who are pathetic and have had arena issues ever since they moved to Phoenix from Winnipeg.   Hockey doesn't work on the west side, and there are no prospects for a new arena in the Mesa or downtown Phoenix areas since their proposed deal with ASU fell through.

About the "Arizona" (I remember they were Phoenix) Coyotes - their arena proposal in Tempe is dead? Maybe it's time to get packing to London, Ontario - unless the Maple Leafs object to a regional rival, and Hamilton, Ontario - too close to the Buffalo Sabres.
There was the proposed Toronto Legacy team in the late 2000s, so I guess the London Legacy (OH MAN, good one) is still possible, but London has a minor league hockey team.

[triplemultiplex]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

Mighty Manfred the Wondercommissioner has made it clear that he wants teams in Montreal and Portland OR, and soon.  But expansion beyond 30 teams is unlikely -- not enough talent for 32.  Two of the following three teams with ballpark issues would more likely be moved:  Oakland, Tampa Bay, Arizona.

What's wrong with the D-backs' stadium?

[Max Rockatansky]

I can't see MLB expanding beyond 32 teams. There just aren't enough quality pitchers as it is.

Mighty Manfred the Wondercommissioner has made it clear that he wants teams in Montreal and Portland OR, and soon.  But expansion beyond 30 teams is unlikely -- not enough talent for 32.  Two of the following three teams with ballpark issues would more likely be moved:  Oakland, Tampa Bay, Arizona.

What's wrong with the D-backs' stadium?

The Diamondbacks aren't going anywhere.   The Phoenix market is way too large and the stadium is in a premium location in downtown.  Not to mention the entire Cactus League is played in the Phoenix metro area.