Chicago: Police order signal at Archer/Kedzie to flash red for weekend

[mrsman]

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/27/police-order-traffic-light-at-archer-and-kedzie-to-go-flashing-red-for-weekend-residents-say-thats-dangerous/?taid=5f20287d68ab860001af579d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Basically, every weekend this busy Chicago southwest side intersection has been ordered to go on all-flashing red, (all-way stop) as part of an unspecified crime prevention measure.  Of course, it makes the intersection more dangerous for pedestrians and traffic.

Excerpt:

The traffic lights at Archer and Kedzie avenues were running normally on Monday night. But from Friday through Sunday, people who live in the area say they flash red — and they call the switch an accident waiting to happen.

...

"Finally last weekend, we got confirmation that this is part of some sort of crime reduction strategy by the Police Department,"  said Ald. Ray Lopez (15th).

The Chicago Department of Transportation confirmed it to CBS 2 as well.

Lopez said a semi-trailer truck hit two cars at the intersection over the weekend, and it's bound to happen again.

"You've turned an already dangerous intersection for pedestrians into an even more dangerous intersection,"  Lopez said.

[ChiMilNet]

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/07/27/police-order-traffic-light-at-archer-and-kedzie-to-go-flashing-red-for-weekend-residents-say-thats-dangerous/?taid=5f20287d68ab860001af579d&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Basically, every weekend this busy Chicago southwest side intersection has been ordered to go on all-flashing red, (all-way stop) as part of an unspecified crime prevention measure.  Of course, it makes the intersection more dangerous for pedestrians and traffic.

Excerpt:

The traffic lights at Archer and Kedzie avenues were running normally on Monday night. But from Friday through Sunday, people who live in the area say they flash red — and they call the switch an accident waiting to happen.

...

"Finally last weekend, we got confirmation that this is part of some sort of crime reduction strategy by the Police Department,"  said Ald. Ray Lopez (15th).

The Chicago Department of Transportation confirmed it to CBS 2 as well.

Lopez said a semi-trailer truck hit two cars at the intersection over the weekend, and it's bound to happen again.

"You've turned an already dangerous intersection for pedestrians into an even more dangerous intersection,"  Lopez said.

How exactly does this prevent crime??? Umm... I'm quite sure a crime suspect would simply just run the light regardless. 

[Joe The Dragon]

it's stacks up traffic and slow all of it down?

[ChiMilNet]

it's stacks up traffic and slow all of it down?

And criminals won't zoom through a parking lot, down an alley/side street, go around the line of traffic anyway they can??? Again, trying to understand the logic here... and I can understand why residents are angry here!

[qguy]

Were people harassing vehicles stopped at the red lights during normal operation perhaps?

[paulthemapguy]

Two things:

There's an intermodal facility just to the north, between the intersection and I-55.  Trucks probably cut through this intersection to avoid traffic on I-55. Making this intersection a pain to drive through will get drivers to avoid it, so this move is probably to prevent semis from cutting through along Archer--forcing the semis to use I-55 to Kedzie like they're supposed to.  A simple weight limit along Archer could possibly fix this, too, but perhaps the City couldn't swing that.

Making the intersection a 4-way stop will help people to anticipate pedestrians trying to cross at the intersection.  This is typically especially needed for truck drivers, who are so used to driving on a high-speed freeway that they forget the need to consider pedestrians in a densely-populated city.

[ChiMilNet]

Two things:

There's an intermodal facility just to the north, between the intersection and I-55.  Trucks probably cut through this intersection to avoid traffic on I-55. Making this intersection a pain to drive through will get drivers to avoid it, so this move is probably to prevent semis from cutting through along Archer--forcing the semis to use I-55 to Kedzie like they're supposed to.  A simple weight limit along Archer could possibly fix this, too, but perhaps the City couldn't swing that.

Making the intersection a 4-way stop will help people to anticipate pedestrians trying to cross at the intersection.  This is typically especially needed for truck drivers, who are so used to driving on a high-speed freeway that they forget the need to consider pedestrians in a densely-populated city.

I can believe that people would try to avoid the I-55 traffic (until IDOT expands the capacity, this will continue to be an issue). Ironically, based on the news story, it seems that making this a 4-way stop has made it worse for pedestrians. Probably, there's just too much traffic for it to not be controlled by a stoplight or a traffic enforcement officer or something.

[kphoger]

Were people harassing vehicles stopped at the red lights during normal operation perhaps?

IMHO, this is the most likely explanation.  Car-jacking is easier at a red light than at a four-way stop.

[Flint1979]

It's not like the traffic lights aren't a pain in the ass in Chicago anyway.

[mrsman]

Were people harassing vehicles stopped at the red lights during normal operation perhaps?

IMHO, this is the most likely explanation.  Car-jacking is easier at a red light than at a four-way stop.

That is true and the question is whether there can be some balance.  I know that Chicago has a lot of crime troubles, but was car jacking a big problem during daylight hours.  It would seem better to implement a nighttime flash operation from like 10 pm to 6 am nightly (to 8 am on Sat and Sun mornings) to prevent cars from being forced to wait at a long light during less crowded times.

You don't trade one safety problem for another, and while I can appreciate trying to reduce carjacking, I wouldn't want to increase preventable collisions with pedestrians in the process.

This signal is probably a trial.  If the trial is successful, expect similar treatment at many other intersections citywide, especially in high crime areas.

[ChiMilNet]

Were people harassing vehicles stopped at the red lights during normal operation perhaps?

IMHO, this is the most likely explanation.  Car-jacking is easier at a red light than at a four-way stop.

That is true and the question is whether there can be some balance.  I know that Chicago has a lot of crime troubles, but was car jacking a big problem during daylight hours.  It would seem better to implement a nighttime flash operation from like 10 pm to 6 am nightly (to 8 am on Sat and Sun mornings) to prevent cars from being forced to wait at a long light during less crowded times.

You don't trade one safety problem for another, and while I can appreciate trying to reduce carjacking, I wouldn't want to increase preventable collisions with pedestrians in the process.

This signal is probably a trial.  If the trial is successful, expect similar treatment at many other intersections citywide, especially in high crime areas.

It makes more sense with that late at night, and I think they'd find it could be successful if they kept it to then, just not during the day when there's too much traffic. Though, I'll take it a step further on that and say it makes sense during the week overnight as well. I'll also further that and say that main arteries, such as Ashland, Western, North, Ogden, Grand, Division, and Irving Park, to name a few, should actually be set with flashing yellows at most intersections while the side streets have flashing red (exception being where two main streets meet, and then maybe use a flashing red light). I cannot say how many times I have unnecessarily waited at a stoplight in Chicago at night just because it is on a timer (with the worries of carjacking being prevalent). I would personally welcome some late-night adjustments to that.

[kphoger]

May I also just mention that it's nice to see a Chicago intersection at which all four approaches have a left-turn signal?

[Brandon]

May I also just mention that it's nice to see a Chicago intersection at which all four approaches have a left-turn signal?

Yeah, that's not common.  It's far more common to have no left turn signals what-so-ever.

[Super Mateo]

May I also just mention that it's nice to see a Chicago intersection at which all four approaches have a left-turn signal?

Yeah, in Chicago it's a total crapshoot whether you get an arrow to turn left or not.  I'm assuming Chicago has improved on this, but back in the 90s, I had to deal with these:

a.  The intersection was on timers and the arrow was too short during the day and too long at night (111th & Western),
b.  The arrows didn't come on at all because I picked the wrong time of day to use the intersection (111th & Kedzie),
c.  There was no yellow arrow at all, so when a green arrow ended, left turners would just keep going until oncoming traffic stopped them (103rd & Western).
d.  The intersection didn't have arrows (practically every remaining city-installed light in the Beverly/Mt. Greenwood area).

After a while, I refused to go through 103rd and Western until they replaced the light.  Chicago is terrible about left arrows.  The suburbs are the opposite.  Left arrows are nearly everywhere, even where they generally aren't needed.

[Brandon]

c.  There was no yellow arrow at all, so when a green arrow ended, left turners would just keep going until oncoming traffic stopped them (103rd & Western).

They still do that shit anyway, even when there is a yellow arrow.  I've lost count of the number of times I've gotten honked at or dirty looks/gestures for not going through on a yellow arrow when I knew there was no way I could make it in time.

[Crash_It]

Probably a flashing yellow would be a better option. I've seen this only a couple of times within the city. Once on IL50 and another time on 40th/Cottage Grove. Probably should be a permanent solution after dark since many intersections in the city are STOPSTOPSTOPSTOPSTOP