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Author Topic: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections  (Read 3549 times)

kernals12

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Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« on: October 25, 2020, 12:55:27 AM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2020, 01:04:26 AM »

Well that explains where my Hotel Plaza/FL 535 sign came from then. 
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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2020, 01:05:10 AM »

Well that explains where my Hotel Plaza/FL 535 sign came from then.
What are you talking about?
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edwaleni

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2020, 09:31:34 PM »

This was proposed by FDOT for both the FL-202/Philips Highway(US-1) intersection and for awhile was also floated as part of the Southside Boulevard(FL-115)/Baymeadows(FL-152) intersection as part of that "Better Jacksonville Plan" from 2003.

Neither one was built.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #4 on: October 25, 2020, 09:40:11 PM »

Well that explains where my Hotel Plaza/FL 535 sign came from then.
What are you talking about?

A sign I have in my backyard:

https://flic.kr/p/2iE2DT6
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RoadPelican

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2020, 10:02:11 AM »

I really wish FDOT would build something like this in East Orlando.  The intersections of Alafaya Trail and East Colonial Drive as well as Alafaya and University Blvd are in dire need of some kind of Echelon Intersection or a full blown interchange.
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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2020, 10:25:14 AM »

Then there's this multi-echelon beauty / monstrosity over SR 84 and I-95 in Fort Lauderdale:

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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2020, 11:41:58 AM »

Then there's this multi-echelon beauty / monstrosity over SR 84 and I-95 in Fort Lauderdale:


That doesn't count. The overpasses aren't signalized.
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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2020, 11:42:49 PM »

Quote from: kernals12
That doesn't count. The overpasses aren't signalized.

Actually, they are...
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mapman

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2020, 12:37:47 AM »

That looks like a grade-separated mash-up of a SPUI and Kurumi's volleyball interchange.   :-o
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Avalanchez71

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2020, 10:45:38 AM »

I really wish FDOT would build something like this in East Orlando.  The intersections of Alafaya Trail and East Colonial Drive as well as Alafaya and University Blvd are in dire need of some kind of Echelon Intersection or a full blown interchange.

it wasn't that long ago that the OBJ was two lanes and there was country between Orlando and Kissimmee.
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architect77

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2020, 06:34:20 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.

So basically this is just elevating the left turn that's most in demand above everything else to operate more independently. Correct?

Is this only helping that one protected left turn's throughput? I don't see any other directions getting helped other than not having to wait for this left turn phase anymore.
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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 04:26:16 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.

So basically this is just elevating the left turn that's most in demand above everything else to operate more independently. Correct?

Is this only helping that one protected left turn's throughput? I don't see any other directions getting helped other than not having to wait for this left turn phase anymore.

But that is a very big improvement. Left turn phases are a traffic nightmare.
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architect77

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2020, 07:23:56 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.

So basically this is just elevating the left turn that's most in demand above everything else to operate more independently. Correct?

Is this only helping that one protected left turn's throughput? I don't see any other directions getting helped other than not having to wait for this left turn phase anymore.

But that is a very big improvement. Left turn phases are a traffic nightmare.

I agree and I don't think they should be part of new intersections anymore. That left can be completed with several other accomodations that  don't keep every direction waiting for 30 seconds just for one protected left to complete.

Michigan lefts, Jersey Jughandles and NC Superstreets are good alternatives.
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roadman65

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2020, 02:28:00 AM »

Wisconsin has some designs on their state’s webpage.

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/safety/safety-eng/inter-design/echelon.aspx
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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2020, 08:03:56 AM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.

So basically this is just elevating the left turn that's most in demand above everything else to operate more independently. Correct?

Is this only helping that one protected left turn's throughput? I don't see any other directions getting helped other than not having to wait for this left turn phase anymore.

But that is a very big improvement. Left turn phases are a traffic nightmare.

I agree and I don't think they should be part of new intersections anymore. That left can be completed with several other accomodations that  don't keep every direction waiting for 30 seconds just for one protected left to complete.

Michigan lefts, Jersey Jughandles and NC Superstreets are good alternatives.

Those require more right of way.
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democratic nole

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2020, 08:38:02 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.
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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2020, 08:40:13 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.

I don't see the issue with pedestrians. They only have to cross one direction at a time, at least in the configuration you quoted.
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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2020, 09:13:35 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.

Pedestrians would have to cross fewer lanes of traffic. And this intersection is partially a freeway off ramp already, so it'd be odd to put a SPUI there.
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democratic nole

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2020, 09:47:18 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.

I don't see the issue with pedestrians. They only have to cross one direction at a time, at least in the configuration you quoted.
The pedestrian issue is minor, but generally an intersection like this will reduce the options the pedestrian has for getting across the intersection. Let's say pedestrian was walking on the NW side of the screen there by the lake. To get to the NE side of the intersection, he has to cross south across the ramp (assuming its permitted), then across Apopka-Vineland, then across Vineland EB, then across the right turn lanes to get where he's going. The SPUI is bit preferable in regard to pedestrian movement.
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kernals12

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2020, 10:07:52 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.

I don't see the issue with pedestrians. They only have to cross one direction at a time, at least in the configuration you quoted.
The pedestrian issue is minor, but generally an intersection like this will reduce the options the pedestrian has for getting across the intersection. Let's say pedestrian was walking on the NW side of the screen there by the lake. To get to the NE side of the intersection, he has to cross south across the ramp (assuming its permitted), then across Apopka-Vineland, then across Vineland EB, then across the right turn lanes to get where he's going. The SPUI is bit preferable in regard to pedestrian movement.

But a SPUI would probably cost more.
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democratic nole

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2020, 10:24:01 PM »



An Echelon Intersection uses grade seperation to split the movements at a signalized intersection into two. This allows traffic lights on each intersection to operate with fewer phases and increases throughput. Until 2000, the only one in existence in the world was located in Aventura, Florida between US 1 and 203rd Street. But now, that number is set to increase by 400%. As part of the improvements planned to I-4 near Orlando, the FDOT is planning to build 4 echelons: 2 on Route 535 at Vineland and Hotel Plaza Boulevard and 2 on Route 27 where the I-4 ramps terminate.

I imagine that Florida is about to get a signature intersection design, just like the Michigan Left, the Jersey Jughandle, or the Texas U-Turn.
What an utter monstrosity. Going to be fun seeing a pedestrian get through that intersection. If FDOT is going to spend this kind of money, they need to build a full freeway like interchange with an SPUI, not this.

I don't see the issue with pedestrians. They only have to cross one direction at a time, at least in the configuration you quoted.
The pedestrian issue is minor, but generally an intersection like this will reduce the options the pedestrian has for getting across the intersection. Let's say pedestrian was walking on the NW side of the screen there by the lake. To get to the NE side of the intersection, he has to cross south across the ramp (assuming its permitted), then across Apopka-Vineland, then across Vineland EB, then across the right turn lanes to get where he's going. The SPUI is bit preferable in regard to pedestrian movement.

But a SPUI would probably cost more.
Yes, but this state has got to start taking a wholistic look at costs when building roads. If it continues to always cut costs and corners upfront, it will pay more in the long run, as it has done from a whole host of issues to freeways, traffic signals, pedestrian facilities, etc.
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deathtopumpkins

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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2020, 04:02:47 PM »

The pedestrian issue is minor, but generally an intersection like this will reduce the options the pedestrian has for getting across the intersection. Let's say pedestrian was walking on the NW side of the screen there by the lake. To get to the NE side of the intersection, he has to cross south across the ramp (assuming its permitted), then across Apopka-Vineland, then across Vineland EB, then across the right turn lanes to get where he's going. The SPUI is bit preferable in regard to pedestrian movement.

The approach from the west is (as labeled in the image) an offramp from I-4. There should not be any pedestrians walking along an offramp. This is actually a significant improvement in pedestrian infrastructure compared to what is there already, as the existing configuration does not include any pedestrian crossing of SR 535.

Creative designs like this can either make pedestrian accommodations better or worse, depending on the context. Which is why these designs are context-specific. There are situations where they are and are not appropriate.
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Alps

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MOVED: Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2020, 12:12:28 PM »

Discussion of Center Turn Overpass has been moved to https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=28209.0.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2020, 03:17:49 PM by Alps »
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Re: Florida's Going Big on Echelon Intersections
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2020, 04:41:07 PM »

Supposedly one of these intersections is in the works in Tuscaloosa, AL for US 82 (McFarland Blvd) and US 11 (Skyland Blvd), but I have not heard much about it lately. This article from 2017 was the last time it was mentioned.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2020, 04:44:24 PM by codyg1985 »
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