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Which cities would be good for expansion franchises?

Started by OCGuy81, February 25, 2021, 04:00:05 PM

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tchafe1978

Milwaukee was once considered for an NHL expansion team. It's why the money was originally donated to build the Bradley Center back in the 1980s, to lure an NHL team. But the Blackhawks bawked at a Milwaukee team encroaching on their territory, so it never happened. Milwaukee would still make a great hockey city, but it's doubtful if the market could support a third major sports franchise.


triplemultiplex

Most pro sports leagues in the US probably have too many teams as it is already given how uncompetitive many of their teams have been for eons.  So to me, expansion of any of them is unwarranted.
Rather, I would be in favor of moving teams from metros that have more than one. Let's be real; when there are two or more teams in the same city; one dominates the market anyway, so why not spread some love around?

It didn't take long to happen in the NFL once teams moved back to Los Angeles.  La Rams are already the runaway favorite over the Clippers.  (That's what I call them because of the same 'LAC' abbreviation used. :P )  Good for the Rams since they were second fiddle to the Raiders back in the day, but I think it's bad for pro sports to have 4 metros hording 2 entire divisions worth of teams in some leagues.

If you're interested in who's fans I'd upset, these are the teams that I feel should set up shop in another city:
Mets
Jets
Nets
White Sox
Angels
A's
Chargers
Clippers

(Not doing hockey because I don't feel like looking up where the teams are these days and not doing soccer because it's not worth my attention.)
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2021, 12:31:12 PM
Most pro sports leagues in the US probably have too many teams as it is already given how uncompetitive many of their teams have been for eons.  So to me, expansion of any of them is unwarranted.
Rather, I would be in favor of moving teams from metros that have more than one. Let's be real; when there are two or more teams in the same city; one dominates the market anyway, so why not spread some love around?

It didn't take long to happen in the NFL once teams moved back to Los Angeles.  La Rams are already the runaway favorite over the Clippers.  (That's what I call them because of the same 'LAC' abbreviation used. :P )  Good for the Rams since they were second fiddle to the Raiders back in the day, but I think it's bad for pro sports to have 4 metros hording 2 entire divisions worth of teams in some leagues.

If you're interested in who's fans I'd upset, these are the teams that I feel should set up shop in another city:
Mets
Jets
Nets
White Sox
Angels
A's
Chargers
Clippers

(Not doing hockey because I don't feel like looking up where the teams are these days and not doing soccer because it's not worth my attention.)

The Angels and White Sox have two of the most lucrative local TV contracts in MLB. They aren't going anywhere.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

kphoger

The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Life in Paradise

It's so sad that San Diego can't keep teams with the San Diego/Tijuana metro being so large.  The Clippers and also the Chargers went north.  It's good that they at least have the Padres, for now.

OCGuy81

Quote from: triplemultiplex on March 02, 2021, 12:31:12 PM
Most pro sports leagues in the US probably have too many teams as it is already given how uncompetitive many of their teams have been for eons.  So to me, expansion of any of them is unwarranted.
Rather, I would be in favor of moving teams from metros that have more than one. Let's be real; when there are two or more teams in the same city; one dominates the market anyway, so why not spread some love around?

It didn't take long to happen in the NFL once teams moved back to Los Angeles.  La Rams are already the runaway favorite over the Clippers.  (That's what I call them because of the same 'LAC' abbreviation used. :P )  Good for the Rams since they were second fiddle to the Raiders back in the day, but I think it's bad for pro sports to have 4 metros hording 2 entire divisions worth of teams in some leagues.

If you're interested in who's fans I'd upset, these are the teams that I feel should set up shop in another city:
Mets
Jets
Nets
White Sox
Angels
A's
Chargers
Clippers

(Not doing hockey because I don't feel like looking up where the teams are these days and not doing soccer because it's not worth my attention.)

I always refer to those as the JV franchises of their respective cities.

TheHighwayMan3561

The Mets came into existence as an effort to thwart a start-up baseball league looking to fill the void of jilted Giants and Dodgers fans in NYC (who were also rabid Yankee haters and not about to root for them) after those teams left for California.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

I-39

Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: I-39 on March 02, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

Both they and the SF Giants nearly ended up in Tampa in the late 80s/early 90s. New ballparks generally save the day.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

Hot Rod Hootenanny

Before COVID, last year, there rumors that Tampa Rays would move to Montreal.
Please, don't sue Alex & Andy over what I wrote above

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 02, 2021, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: I-39 on March 02, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

Both they and the SF Giants nearly ended up in Tampa in the late 80s/early 90s. New ballparks generally save the day.
Quote from: I-39 on March 02, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

The Cubs/Sox disparity is more of a national thing than a local thing. Inside the metro area, the split in fans is closer to 60/40. It's outside the metro area, where people grew up watching Cubs games from Wrigley Field on WGN, that the Cubs are far more popular than the Sox.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

I-39

Quote from: cabiness42 on March 03, 2021, 07:08:14 AM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 02, 2021, 09:43:31 PM
Quote from: I-39 on March 02, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

Both they and the SF Giants nearly ended up in Tampa in the late 80s/early 90s. New ballparks generally save the day.
Quote from: I-39 on March 02, 2021, 09:30:36 PM
Quote from: kphoger on March 02, 2021, 12:53:05 PM
The White Sox are the south side's team.  The Cubs are the north side's team.

But the White Sox fanbase is very niche compared to their north side counterparts. Not really sure how they've managed to stay in Chicago.

The Cubs/Sox disparity is more of a national thing than a local thing. Inside the metro area, the split in fans is closer to 60/40. It's outside the metro area, where people grew up watching Cubs games from Wrigley Field on WGN, that the Cubs are far more popular than the Sox.

Even when I lived within the metro area, I knew of more Cubs than Sox fans. The only reason the Sox stayed in Chicago is because Jerry Reinsdorf twisted the arm of the legislature in an 11th hour deal to get funding for a new stadium. Yet hypocritically, they refused to give the Cubs any assistance when it came time to renovate Wrigley.

OCGuy81

I know Chicago is fairly split on Cubs vs Sox, at least in the city itself.

I'm not sure the love some other "JV"  teams get.

What's the split on Giants vs Jets in the NY metro?
How about Knicks vs Nets?

SectorZ

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 03, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
I know Chicago is fairly split on Cubs vs Sox, at least in the city itself.

I'm not sure the love some other "JV"  teams get.

What's the split on Giants vs Jets in the NY metro?
How about Knicks vs Nets?

I know for the Giants and Jets, it's fairly lopsided. Deadpsin used to put out the stats that someone compiled of Facebook likes for teams by county. At one point, all the Jets had was Nassau County, and in the mid-2010's they lost even that, with the Giants winning every county around NYC. Granted, it could be close in each county, but in general it appears the Giants are much more loved than the Jets, at least by that metric.

kphoger

Quote from: I-39 on March 03, 2021, 08:29:21 AM
Even when I lived within the metro area, I knew of more Cubs than Sox fans.

Metro area?  Yeah, I'd say there are probably a good deal more Cubs fans in the suburbs than there are Sox fans.  But, within Chicago itself, it's not that way.  If you live on the south side of Chicago, you're a Sox fan, or else they burn your house down.  Same with the north side and the Cubs.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ftballfan

Quote from: Hot Rod Hootenanny on March 03, 2021, 12:31:50 AM
Before COVID, last year, there rumors that Tampa Rays would move to Montreal.

Now it's more likely (but still a very small chance) that the Blue Jays and Raptors could permanently move to a US city as they're the only Canadian teams in their respective leagues. If either were to move to the States, I think the Blue Jays would move to Buffalo or Charlotte and the Raptors would move to Seattle, becoming the new Sonics and inheriting the records of the previous Sonics franchise.

triplemultiplex

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on March 02, 2021, 05:33:42 PM
The Mets came into existence as an effort to thwart a start-up baseball league looking to fill the void of jilted Giants and Dodgers fans in NYC (who were also rabid Yankee haters and not about to root for them) after those teams left for California.
Which I find awesome.  Why root for the Mets?  Because fuck the Yankees! :-D
And I get it; I was totally pulling for the Metropolitans in the subway series.
"That's just like... your opinion, man."

Alps

Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 03, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
I know Chicago is fairly split on Cubs vs Sox, at least in the city itself.

I'm not sure the love some other "JV"  teams get.

What's the split on Giants vs Jets in the NY metro?
How about Knicks vs Nets?
Seat of the pants reactions from a NY area resident.
* Giants vs. Jets: Jets territory seems to be very specific. A lot of Italians like the Jets, at least in NJ (is it the green?), but overall more people are Giants fans because their franchise isn't a total joke every year. This can change down the road if their fortunes reverse, but the Jets have historically been the underdog from a fan numbers perspective.
* Knicks vs. Nets: Until the Nets moved to Brooklyn, I'd say the Knicks had this one easily. The Nets were the junior team from the junior state and even in NJ there was a split on that basis. At this point, the Nets are successful and take the game seriously, while the Knicks have been a joke for about 20 years, so while I bet the numbers still favor the Knicks, the active fandom is probably in the Nets' favor (as opposed to the legacy fandom of old people and me).
* Yankees vs. Mets: You didn't bring it up, but the Mets have a steady, passionate fan base that just happens to generally be smaller than the Yankees' just about everywhere. If you strip away the bandwagon and "by default" Yankees fans, the numbers probably still favor the Yankees (based on my experiences and interactions) but it's no longer a blowout.
* Rangers vs. Islanders vs. Devils: Islanders are "third fiddle" and used to it, yet the metro area is large enough to keep them in the blue. Rangers definitely win the fan battle in the overall area, but the Devils have just about all of North Jersey to themselves.

CNGL-Leudimin

Quote from: ftballfan on March 03, 2021, 02:40:43 PM
Now it's more likely (but still a very small chance) that the Blue Jays and Raptors could permanently move to a US city as they're the only Canadian teams in their respective leagues. If either were to move to the States, I think the Blue Jays would move to Buffalo or Charlotte and the Raptors would move to Seattle, becoming the new Sonics and inheriting the records of the previous Sonics franchise.

The latter would result in the Raptors folding and the Sonics splitting into the Thunder and the new Sonics in my view. I already consider the Hornets to have split into the current Pelicans and the then-Bobcats, and in American Football the Browns into the Ravens and the current Browns.
Supporter of the construction of several running gags, including I-366 with a speed limit of 85 mph (137 km/h) and the Hypotenuse.

Please note that I may mention "invalid" FM channels, i.e. ending in an even number or down to 87.5. These are valid in Europe.

dkblake

Quote from: SectorZ on March 03, 2021, 09:35:17 AM

I know for the Giants and Jets, it's fairly lopsided. Deadpsin used to put out the stats that someone compiled of Facebook likes for teams by county. At one point, all the Jets had was Nassau County, and in the mid-2010's they lost even that, with the Giants winning every county around NYC.

That's because the Jets used to practice at Hofstra University, so they built up a fanbase in Nassau because of the local connection. Then they moved to north Jersey, and the proportion went back down.
2dis clinched: 8, 17, 69(original), 71, 72, 78, 81, 84(E), 86(E), 88(E), 89, 91, 93, 97

Mob-rule: http://www.mob-rule.com/user-gifs/USA/dblake.gif

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5

OCGuy81


3467

I have seen only one poll on who is your favorite baseball team . It was a few years ago and for all Illinois and It was a three way split.
I haven't checked TV ratings but the White Sox get attendance when they win and the other 2 always show up though one does win more than the other.

hotdogPi

Quote from: 3467 on March 21, 2021, 07:52:18 PM
I have seen only one poll on who is your favorite baseball team . It was a few years ago and for all Illinois and It was a three way split.
I haven't checked TV ratings but the White Sox get attendance when they win and the other 2 always show up though one does win more than the other.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/24/upshot/facebook-baseball-map.html (warning: paywall)
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

Roadgeekteen

God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5



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