Why not get rid of Lake Shore Drive's At-Grade Intersections

[Flint1979]

A prime example of lake effect is the Keweenaw Peninsula. Houghton averages around 250 inches of snow a year. That whole peninsula gets slammed with lake effect snow from Lake Superior.

[GaryV]

One year when I was in school, the City of Holland (about 5 miles inland) got a foot of snow.  In Grand Rapids (maybe 30 miles from the Lake) they had an inch.  A guy I worked with who lived on the lakeshore called in and said he wasn't coming in, because the snow was up to his headlights - on his pickup.  This was in November if I recall correctly - maybe early December.

[tdindy88]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

Well let me chime in as someone from Indianapolis. Indy absolutely does have crime issues. It's gotten worse in the past few years. As with almost anywhere it depends on what kind of activities and who you hang out with but it is there. You could subsitute Chicago's South side for Indy's East side, parts are pretty dangerous and other areas not so much. That said our city has in general run the tournament quite fine, with the exception of the Oregon sportscaster who was attacked on the Downtown Canal by a homeless guy one morning.

Corruption on the other hand we are pretty good at not having any. Indy's not really a machine politics kind of town, Chicago would beat us at that any day of the week.

As for Lake Shore Drive, it absolutely is scenic and beautiful (if not heavy in traffic) and as a lifelong Hoosier I could attest to love driving it whenever I get the chance. Even the southern part of the highway wasn't that bad with its interesting pedestrian bridges and such. I love the high rises along the highway, it's as perfect of an urban highway as you are going to get anywhere. And yes, there is absolutely nothing like this in Indy. Our scenic drives are pretty boring. They aren't the absolute worse, but never will we get anything like the wall of high rises against the large Lake Michigan like you do along the LSD.



As for any improvements to it. I wouldn't mind if they grade-separated the highway in the center part, but if they can't then it's alright, it's a cool enough highway as it is.

[Flint1979]

The worst parts of Indy I've experienced were on the east side of town. Nothing as bad as the worst parts of Chicago or Detroit though. Downtown Indy is better situated to host tournaments than Chicago is. I for one have never liked the location of the United Center and I am saying this as a Chicago sports fan.

I think that downtown Detroit could also be a better venue than Chicago with Ford Field being there.

[ET21]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

FWIW I've seen some weird things go down around the United Center.  I wasn't too surprised that the Big Ten moved their tournament out of their for Lucas Oil Stadium.  Lucas Oil Stadium is newer and a far more convenient facility which is a much less haggard neighborhood being in downtown than the United Center.

I agree. I hate the area around the UC. It's quite a hike from the El for one thing and the neighborhood around it isnt very good at all.

They were somewhat rectifying this issue with a new stop on the Green Line at Damen a few blocks north. People were hoping for a Pink Line stop which is a shorter walking distance. However the area around there is undergoing another building boom and conversion. Lots of cranes and old warehouses being converted. I work only 7 blocks east and its insane at all the buildup going on in West Town and the West Loop

[Flint1979]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

FWIW I've seen some weird things go down around the United Center.  I wasn't too surprised that the Big Ten moved their tournament out of their for Lucas Oil Stadium.  Lucas Oil Stadium is newer and a far more convenient facility which is a much less haggard neighborhood being in downtown than the United Center.

I agree. I hate the area around the UC. It's quite a hike from the El for one thing and the neighborhood around it isnt very good at all.

They were somewhat rectifying this issue with a new stop on the Green Line at Damen a few blocks north. People were hoping for a Pink Line stop which is a shorter walking distance. However the area around there is undergoing another building boom and conversion. Lots of cranes and old warehouses being converted. I work only 7 blocks east and its insane at all the buildup going on in West Town and the West Loop

That's what they should have is a Pink line stop at Madison. I never understood why one wasn't put in.

[kphoger]

[Crash_It]

Yup, he hasn't come back to reply because we've destroyed him with facts

[ET21]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

FWIW I've seen some weird things go down around the United Center.  I wasn't too surprised that the Big Ten moved their tournament out of their for Lucas Oil Stadium.  Lucas Oil Stadium is newer and a far more convenient facility which is a much less haggard neighborhood being in downtown than the United Center.

I agree. I hate the area around the UC. It's quite a hike from the El for one thing and the neighborhood around it isnt very good at all.

They were somewhat rectifying this issue with a new stop on the Green Line at Damen a few blocks north. People were hoping for a Pink Line stop which is a shorter walking distance. However the area around there is undergoing another building boom and conversion. Lots of cranes and old warehouses being converted. I work only 7 blocks east and its insane at all the buildup going on in West Town and the West Loop

That's what they should have is a Pink line stop at Madison. I never understood why one wasn't put in.

Exactly, maybe a spacing issue to build a station at Madison but that's a decent size stretch of the Pink that has no stop. Goes from Ashland to Polk/18th

[Flint1979]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

FWIW I've seen some weird things go down around the United Center.  I wasn't too surprised that the Big Ten moved their tournament out of their for Lucas Oil Stadium.  Lucas Oil Stadium is newer and a far more convenient facility which is a much less haggard neighborhood being in downtown than the United Center.

I agree. I hate the area around the UC. It's quite a hike from the El for one thing and the neighborhood around it isnt very good at all.

They were somewhat rectifying this issue with a new stop on the Green Line at Damen a few blocks north. People were hoping for a Pink Line stop which is a shorter walking distance. However the area around there is undergoing another building boom and conversion. Lots of cranes and old warehouses being converted. I work only 7 blocks east and its insane at all the buildup going on in West Town and the West Loop

That's what they should have is a Pink line stop at Madison. I never understood why one wasn't put in.

Exactly, maybe a spacing issue to build a station at Madison but that's a decent size stretch of the Pink that has no stop. Goes from Ashland to Polk/18th

Yeah that's true too there is a pretty large gap there between stations on the pink line. I've taken the Madison bus route 20 to the UC before.

[kphoger]

because

"the longer the quote, the happier the goat."

[Max Rockatansky]

because

"the longer the quote, the happier the goat."

Words for life.

[mrsman]

I don't think it's feasible for LSD to be converted into a full freeway at this point without dumping huge sums of money to accomplish that. Huge sums of money that the city nor the state have right now.

Remember that I-494 I-694 proposal from several decades back? Part of it was to use LSD, and the above suggestion would basically be a revival of the old plan, which would forever destroy the scenic beauty and charm that LSD is known for.

LSD has scenic beauty and charm? 

Says the person who's city is mostly run down and beat up streets save for the annexed sections and downtown area.

This "mostly run down and beat up city" just ran the NCAA tourney. also isn't crime ridden or full of corruption. 

Not crime ridden? LMAO give me a break . According to this data here Indy is only safer than 4% of US cities

https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/in/indianapolis/crime

Get educated before you spew nonsense.

Maybe you should do that too. I don't even live in Indianapolis.   and you didn't even explain how the road is scenic, you just resorted to childish attacks. Maybe grow up too?

Pixel 5

FWIW I've seen some weird things go down around the United Center.  I wasn't too surprised that the Big Ten moved their tournament out of their for Lucas Oil Stadium.  Lucas Oil Stadium is newer and a far more convenient facility which is a much less haggard neighborhood being in downtown than the United Center.

I agree. I hate the area around the UC. It's quite a hike from the El for one thing and the neighborhood around it isnt very good at all.

They were somewhat rectifying this issue with a new stop on the Green Line at Damen a few blocks north. People were hoping for a Pink Line stop which is a shorter walking distance. However the area around there is undergoing another building boom and conversion. Lots of cranes and old warehouses being converted. I work only 7 blocks east and its insane at all the buildup going on in West Town and the West Loop

That's what they should have is a Pink line stop at Madison. I never understood why one wasn't put in.

Exactly, maybe a spacing issue to build a station at Madison but that's a decent size stretch of the Pink that has no stop. Goes from Ashland to Polk/18th

Yeah that's true too there is a pretty large gap there between stations on the pink line. I've taken the Madison bus route 20 to the UC before.

I'll chime in with a little bit of opinion and knowledge.

First, the opinion.  LSD is a fine highway.  It is not meant to be a regional means of going from south suburbs or Indiana to the north suburbs.  Use one of the interstates for that.  It does very well serve local commuter traffic from north shore neighborhoods (generally within the city and possibly Evanston) to the Loop.  If the Loop (or adjacent areas) are your final destination, who cares if there are some signals on the highway, you'd have to face some signals as you circle around the loop to get to your parking garage.  The one signal that seems to be a bit of a problem (Chicago Ave) is planned for removal.  There is no need to do so for the Monroe to 18th section.  It is basically a car-oriented (not truck) freeway that defaults onto a city street in Downtown.  Yes, a wide city street, but a city street nonetheless.

An equivalent would be Henry Hudson Pkwy which is a parkway (freeway for cars only), but as soon as you enter NYC's midtown, you fact traffic signals at 57th.  This is not meant to be an interregional highway, but it does serve to bring a lot of folks into NYC's CBD from northwest Manhattan, west Bronx, and further north.

Similarly with the south side of LSD is even more limited.  South of 67th, LSD defaults onto Jeffrey or South Shore.  Basically local streets.

Now some knowledge about the L.  The Metropolitan West Side Elevated Railroad (Met) was one of the earliest L lines.  Its main line connected the Loop directly west along the ROW of what is now I-290.  Just west of Ashland, it diverged three ways.  To the left, was the Douglas Branch, straight ahead was the Garfield Park Branch, and to the right was the Northwest Branch (which itself split into branches for Logan Square and Humboldt Park).  A few blocks away, there was another (competing) L line known as the Lake Street Elevated, now known as the Green Line. These lines are depicted on this map from 1898:

https://www.chicago-l.org/maps/route/maps/1898met-map.jpg

One can see on the map, just to the right of the big split that there was a station for Madison Ave near Paulina.

To keep the history short, parts of what were shown on the map were eventually removed.  Humblodt Park Branch totally removed.  Logan Square Branch (above Milwaukee) was extended to O'Hare, but connected to a new subway along Milwaukee Ave and Dearborn Streets in 1951.  This is the north side of the Blue Line.  At around this time, the station at Madison closed.

For a time Douglas trains ran through here, but not any of the northwest  side trains.  Eventually, with the completion of the Ike, all Douglas trains were routed as a branch of the blue line, so no revenue-service trains ran by here.  (The Paulina connector between Ike and Lake was not demolished as it was used to connect non-passenger trains between the blue line and the green line.  This was the only way to move blue line trains to other parts of the system, which may be needed if a big repair had to be done at one of the train yards.)

A more recent reorganization of the lines put the Douglas trains back on the Lake Street elevated.  This is today's pink line service.  With new train service, there certainly is the possibility of re-instituting a station at Madison and Paulina.  I think it should be done.

While the United Center seems to be placed in an odd location, it actually replaced the Chicago Stadium that had been at that location since the 1920's.  For the first 30 years of its existence, the stadium was a block from the Madison Station - very convenient.

Many cities have moved their basketball/hockey arena closer to Downtown.  if Chicago does not do that, then I beleive that there is great merit to reintroducing a Madison station to better serve the arena in a very direct manner.

Here are some links for more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Stadium

https://www.chicago-l.org/stations/madison-paulina.html

[kphoger]

Yeah that's true too there is a pretty large gap there between stations on the pink line. I've taken the Madison bus route 20 to the UC before.

CTA Bus #20 connects to the L at both Washington elevated station of the Loop, and it runs only one block away from a Washington Blue Line entrance.