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Author Topic: Mississippi  (Read 267511 times)

MoiraPrime

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #650 on: February 05, 2022, 04:12:05 PM »

On the continued note of MDOT projects along I-59 near Hattiesburg, bridge replacement at MS 42 is rather interesting. They moved Eatonville Road so far back away from the diamond interchange, which makes me think they've maybe considered bypassing the I-59/US 49 interchange to connect MS 42 directly.


If they did it might be something roughly along this area.
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HemiCRZ

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #651 on: February 08, 2022, 11:15:05 AM »


Huh? Mississippi is actually suspiciously good at funding road projects if anything. Almost every single trunk road in Mississippi (except US 98 between McComb and US 84) has been widened to 4 lanes.

I'll concede the I-310 project isn't the only one to be stuck in limbo. The Greenville US 82 bypass has met a similar fate, but construction has finally resumed on it. MDOT is also working on connecting MS 25 to MS 76, completing another section of Corridor V.

The main roadblocks to I-310 right now seem to be the City of Gulfport and the Gulfport Port Authority's opposition to it. This archive/summary of multiple articles seems to imply that.
http://www.ajfroggie.com/roads/trip-reports/20060515.htm

The city of Gulfport has very good reasons being opposed to an elevated freeway right through town. Really the most important thing would be MS 601 north of I-10. The MS coast needs a hurricane evacuation route that can be contraflowed.

As a local here, we are very bad at funding road projects. The state actually has a legislative ban on new construction projects because of the backlog of maintenance. The lottery bill a few years back has helped, but MDOT has made it explicitly clear that lottery funds are being funneled to rural projects, not major projects. Not to mention, this revenue source is only good for the next few years before the law requires lottery proceeds to be directed to the general fund and not road/bridge maintenance. Now, legislative leaders and our Governor want to eliminate the state income tax (and likely will this session), which is undoubtedly going to further exacerbate issues.

You mention the US 82 bypass and the extension of Corridor V. Both of these projects were only started due to a windfall of federal grant money during the pandemic. Both of these projects were dead prior. It is worthy to note that US 82 IS being constructed to freeway standards, so perhaps this could help maybe restart some movement on I-69.

I-310/MS 601 DOES have a small chance of being resurrected. I don't know much about the project's current status, but I do hear it come up frequently in legislative discussions. Coast lawmakers want it.

I guess I-755/Airport Parkway is also in limbo and put on the ice as well? https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-755-ms/

This is a pipedream at best. JAN is more of a regional airport at this point, and the current road support via MS 475 is more than adequate.

I'm not sure where I saw it, but at one point I found a PDF about a proposed US 98 bypass of West Hattiesburg, starting at the current trumpet interchange with I-59. The issues it mentioned though was that overall the project was kinda paradoxical. It wanted to both open more land to development, while at the same time being a freeway bypass of the current US 98 bottleneck.

Heck, if you look at the current trumpet, you can even see where they graded the north side of the interchange for the eventual addition of a cloverleaf loop.

The Hattiesburg MPO (includes Hattiesburg, Petal, Forrest and Lamar County) DOES have plans for a bypass of West Hattiesburg.  It would reportedly run from US 49 to US 98 near Jackson Road, then run farther south to the I-59/US 98 interchange.

However, it faces starch opposition both in funding and from the city itself. The City feels like it should not help fund a project that would pull traffic out of the downtown core and support other communities that historically have been at odds with the City of Hattiesburg (i.e., on the Lamar County side of town). Oak Grove and Bellevue have been actively protesting Hattiesburg's annexation west (the latter actually working to become an incorporated city), and Hattiesburg does not want to pump funding into those areas.

https://forrestcountyms.us/?page_id=79
https://www.hubcityspokes.com/news-hattiesburg/hattiesburg-council-doesnt-idea-beltway#sthash.FlwcgpDQ.dpbs

On the continued note of MDOT projects along I-59 near Hattiesburg, bridge replacement at MS 42 is rather interesting. They moved Eatonville Road so far back away from the diamond interchange, which makes me think they've maybe considered bypassing the I-59/US 49 interchange to connect MS 42 directly.

Correct. This extension is Phase II of the aforementioned beltway project. Outside of that, this interchange is unnecessarily large.

https://www.wdam.com/story/37434170/phase-ii-of-western-beltway-proposed/

« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 11:28:56 AM by HemiCRZ »
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #652 on: February 16, 2022, 08:28:05 AM »

I'd much rather see MDOT do something about the 49/59 interchange.
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #653 on: February 19, 2022, 03:49:30 PM »

The West Rankin Parkway, which is designed to connect Lakeland Drive (MS 25) to US 80, hits another snag. Now expected to be completed in 2023.

https://www.wlbt.com/2022/02/18/why-17m-west-rankin-parkway-project-was-pushed-back-again/
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HemiCRZ

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #654 on: February 22, 2022, 11:37:54 AM »

The West Rankin Parkway, which is designed to connect Lakeland Drive (MS 25) to US 80, hits another snag. Now expected to be completed in 2023.

https://www.wlbt.com/2022/02/18/why-17m-west-rankin-parkway-project-was-pushed-back-again/

Why is this even being built. It's so close to existing MS 468.
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Interstate Highways that I've Driven On:
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #655 on: February 22, 2022, 12:50:49 PM »

The West Rankin Parkway, which is designed to connect Lakeland Drive (MS 25) to US 80, hits another snag. Now expected to be completed in 2023.

https://www.wlbt.com/2022/02/18/why-17m-west-rankin-parkway-project-was-pushed-back-again/

Why is this even being built. It's so close to existing MS 468.

Just another access point to I-20. Also to open up land to developers.
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cbalducc

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #656 on: February 23, 2022, 09:58:36 AM »


[/quote]
Why is this even being built. It's so close to existing MS 468.


Just another access point to I-20. Also to open up land to developers.
[/quote]

Still a waste of money, in my opinion.
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #657 on: February 23, 2022, 01:05:11 PM »


Why is this even being built. It's so close to existing MS 468.


Just another access point to I-20. Also to open up land to developers.
[/quote]

Still a waste of money, in my opinion.[/quote]

There are more urgent needs, like finishing US 49 through Richland and Florence, or widening 463 in Madison County.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2022, 01:07:27 PM by golden eagle »
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MoiraPrime

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #658 on: February 25, 2022, 04:08:16 PM »

I am somewhat annoyed reading into this "western beltway project". It seems Hattiesburg city leaders are afraid of losing out on traffic. So much of the traffic situation along the I-59 corridor exists because of poor planning. Hell, look at Laurel. They cut the city in half with I-59 because they didn't want to lose out on "the business" and harmed the citizens of the city in the process.

Urban planners, highway designers, and city leaders, take the freaking hint. Freeways and long haul routes should go AROUND your city, not through it. Quit fooling yourself with this "we'll lose out on dollars from the traffic forced to sit bumper to bumper in our terribly designed city" nonsense.
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froggie

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #659 on: February 25, 2022, 05:13:56 PM »

^ A few response notes:

  • 59 through Laurel was designed and built in the late 1950s, right at the beginning of the Interstate era.  At the time, Interstates were seen as a way to remove urban blight and support the Central Business District (CBD), so many cities (but not all) wanted them as close to the CBD as they could.  It also used to be a lot worse in Laurel before they smoothed out the old S-Curve (at today's Exit 96C).
  • Contrast that with 59 in Hattieburg.  When 59 was built in the early '60s, there was nothing along or west of it.  Even by the early '80s, the only non-residential buildings of note west of 59 were the Coca-Cola plant and Wesley Medical Center.  It wasn't until the '80s that the commercial development along 98 and the residental development away from 98 was built in earnest.  Either then-MDT felt there was too much in the way to bring 59 closer to downtown Hattiesburg, or perhaps they felt that US 49 was close enough.  Hard to say at this point.
  • Mississippi is big on property rights.  As a general rule, property rights and good urban planning do not go hand-in-hand.  Property owners also desire (if not outright demand) direct property access from highways, so this further complicates access management or limited-access efforts.
  • Keep in mind that, with this western beltway, there are two counties involved...and the two don't always see eye-to-eye.
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #660 on: February 25, 2022, 09:13:53 PM »

I am somewhat annoyed reading into this "western beltway project". It seems Hattiesburg city leaders are afraid of losing out on traffic. So much of the traffic situation along the I-59 corridor exists because of poor planning. Hell, look at Laurel. They cut the city in half with I-59 because they didn't want to lose out on "the business" and harmed the citizens of the city in the process.

Urban planners, highway designers, and city leaders, take the freaking hint. Freeways and long haul routes should go AROUND your city, not through it. Quit fooling yourself with this "we'll lose out on dollars from the traffic forced to sit bumper to bumper in our terribly designed city" nonsense.

What's ironic is the lion's share of all the businesses along 98 from Turtle Creek Mall eastward are in the Hattiesburg city limits. I'm startled at the commercial development that has taken place (and redeveloped) along 98/Hardy Street (which was formerly commissioned as US98) since I was at Southern Miss in the 90s. If you don't want your city to lose out on tax dollars to surrounding locations, do what you should to encourage new businesses and residents to come.
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HemiCRZ

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #661 on: February 28, 2022, 03:13:41 PM »

Just another access point to I-20. Also to open up land to developers.

I can see this but man it just seems like such a waste of money. I agree with your further statements a few posts down that there are far more pressing needs. I would like to see 49's widening extend farther south, or perhaps widen MS 15 out north of I-59 in Laurel up to around the Jasper County line. Or the endless number of pavement projects we need in this state.

What's ironic is the lion's share of all the businesses along 98 from Turtle Creek Mall eastward are in the Hattiesburg city limits. I'm startled at the commercial development that has taken place (and redeveloped) along 98/Hardy Street (which was formerly commissioned as US98) since I was at Southern Miss in the 90s. If you don't want your city to lose out on tax dollars to surrounding locations, do what you should to encourage new businesses and residents to come.

All of the businesses along US 98 are only in the city limits because of annexation. If you look at the city boundaries of Hattiesburg, you'll see that there are prominent extensions along US 98 west, US 49 north, and even US 49 south, and they only extend maybe a 1/2 mile in either direction of the roadway.



Hattiesburg's goal is to continue this commercial strip annexation all the way out to MS 589, and all the way up US 49 to the Forrest/Covington County line. They don't face much opposition to going north, in fact, they just constructed a new fire and police station to ensure public services all the way up to that boundary, but that changes when you talk about going west...

https://www.wdam.com/2019/04/26/hattiesburg-takes-another-step-annexation-push/

Basically, Lamar County residents see Hattiesburg as an aggressor looking to come in, take their tax dollars, and send them to projects in Forrest County. There has been an active movement for many years to stop this by incorporating a new city, Bellevue, in Lamar County. The debate has been largely heated, deeply political, and hasn't made much progress. It failed once already.

https://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/story/news/local/2019/02/26/bellevue-incorporation-new-plan-petition-hattiesburg-mississippi/2711474002/
https://www.columbianprogress.com/opinion-columns/bellevues-annexation-fight-continues#sthash.fTbxomtR.dpbs
https://www.facebook.com/bellevuems

In the scope of this Western Beltway Project, that is one of the main reasons it's not built yet. Hattiesburg wants to hold on to the sales tax of everybody that drives through here, and if this beltway is built as the city/county arrangement is currently, Hattiesburg would be funding a roadway outside of their jurisdiction, and not even getting to collect revenue on any businesses built along it.
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Interstate Highways that I've Driven On:
I-5, I-8, I-10, I-20, I-24, I-40, I-55, I-59, I-264, I-65, I-70, I-270, I-71, I-75, I-79, I-376, I-80, I-580, I-680, I-93, I-293

golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #662 on: February 28, 2022, 10:13:36 PM »

Just another access point to I-20. Also to open up land to developers.

I can see this but man it just seems like such a waste of money. I agree with your further statements a few posts down that there are far more pressing needs. I would like to see 49's widening extend farther south, or perhaps widen MS 15 out north of I-59 in Laurel up to around the Jasper County line. Or the endless number of pavement projects we need in this state.

What's ironic is the lion's share of all the businesses along 98 from Turtle Creek Mall eastward are in the Hattiesburg city limits. I'm startled at the commercial development that has taken place (and redeveloped) along 98/Hardy Street (which was formerly commissioned as US98) since I was at Southern Miss in the 90s. If you don't want your city to lose out on tax dollars to surrounding locations, do what you should to encourage new businesses and residents to come.

All of the businesses along US 98 are only in the city limits because of annexation. If you look at the city boundaries of Hattiesburg, you'll see that there are prominent extensions along US 98 west, US 49 north, and even US 49 south, and they only extend maybe a 1/2 mile in either direction of the roadway.



Hattiesburg's goal is to continue this commercial strip annexation all the way out to MS 589, and all the way up US 49 to the Forrest/Covington County line. They don't face much opposition to going north, in fact, they just constructed a new fire and police station to ensure public services all the way up to that boundary, but that changes when you talk about going west...

https://www.wdam.com/2019/04/26/hattiesburg-takes-another-step-annexation-push/

Basically, Lamar County residents see Hattiesburg as an aggressor looking to come in, take their tax dollars, and send them to projects in Forrest County. There has been an active movement for many years to stop this by incorporating a new city, Bellevue, in Lamar County. The debate has been largely heated, deeply political, and hasn't made much progress. It failed once already.

https://www.hattiesburgamerican.com/story/news/local/2019/02/26/bellevue-incorporation-new-plan-petition-hattiesburg-mississippi/2711474002/
https://www.columbianprogress.com/opinion-columns/bellevues-annexation-fight-continues#sthash.fTbxomtR.dpbs
https://www.facebook.com/bellevuems

In the scope of this Western Beltway Project, that is one of the main reasons it's not built yet. Hattiesburg wants to hold on to the sales tax of everybody that drives through here, and if this beltway is built as the city/county arrangement is currently, Hattiesburg would be funding a roadway outside of their jurisdiction, and not even getting to collect revenue on any businesses built along it.

1. I used to take the back way to go to Turtle Creek Mall from USM (4th Street to Weathersby Road). The city limit sign sits right before getting to the mall.
2. What's the purpose of extending the city limits along US49 to Camp Shelby? Revenue for the police?
3. Will the western beltway be a freeway or at grade?
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #663 on: March 04, 2022, 05:22:31 PM »

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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #665 on: March 31, 2022, 09:10:11 PM »

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kenarmy

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #666 on: April 02, 2022, 10:36:20 AM »

Despite living here, I just drove on I-269 for the first time and its a little boring..but idk if I expected more. The “Getwell” and “Laughter” road exits being back to back provides a little amusement tho XD

Edit: (Im just now realizing there’s also a Getwell rd exit on I-240. I didn’t realize it entered both states)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2022, 05:19:30 PM by kenarmy »
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Just a reminder that US 6, 49, 50, and 98 are superior to your fave routes :)


EXTEND 206 SO IT CAN MEET ITS PARENT.

Tomahawkin

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #667 on: April 02, 2022, 01:29:17 PM »

It's a new interstate! Hopefully development comes to that area soon. I need a Whataburger and a Buc'ees there. Either will work. I will settle for a Arby's. I need at truck stop on that route because the traffic on MS 302 is Awful!!!
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #668 on: April 02, 2022, 02:22:33 PM »

As for beginning to construct the remainder of the Greenville Bypass, it certainly took them long enough!
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wriddle082

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #669 on: April 02, 2022, 08:32:24 PM »

Despite living here, I just drove on I-269 for the first time and its a little boring..but idk if I expected more. The “Getwell” and “Laughter” road exits being back to back provides a little amusement tho XD

Edit: (Im just now realizing there’s also a Getwell rd exit on I-240. I didn’t realize it entered both states)

Many of the N-S road names in Shelby Co., TN’s grid continue into DeSoto Co., MS with no name change.  Millbranch, Airways, Swinnea, Tchulahoma, and Malone are other examples that I’m seeing.  Sometimes there are disconnected sections, but for the most part they’re perfectly straight N-S and the name doesn’t change.
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froggie

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #670 on: April 03, 2022, 09:59:57 AM »

Northern DeSoto County = one of the few areas of Mississippi where you actually have a squareish road grid.
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #671 on: April 04, 2022, 12:45:10 PM »

Despite living here, I just drove on I-269 for the first time and its a little boring..but idk if I expected more. The “Getwell” and “Laughter” road exits being back to back provides a little amusement tho XD

Edit: (Im just now realizing there’s also a Getwell rd exit on I-240. I didn’t realize it entered both states)

Many of the N-S road names in Shelby Co., TN’s grid continue into DeSoto Co., MS with no name change.  Millbranch, Airways, Swinnea, Tchulahoma, and Malone are other examples that I’m seeing.  Sometimes there are disconnected sections, but for the most part they’re perfectly straight N-S and the name doesn’t change.

Is this common in other states? I know Green Bay and Sheridan roads don't change when crossing from Lake County, IL into Kenosha County, WI.
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Brooks

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #672 on: April 04, 2022, 02:24:26 PM »

Despite living here, I just drove on I-269 for the first time and its a little boring..but idk if I expected more. The “Getwell” and “Laughter” road exits being back to back provides a little amusement tho XD

Edit: (Im just now realizing there’s also a Getwell rd exit on I-240. I didn’t realize it entered both states)

Many of the N-S road names in Shelby Co., TN’s grid continue into DeSoto Co., MS with no name change.  Millbranch, Airways, Swinnea, Tchulahoma, and Malone are other examples that I’m seeing.  Sometimes there are disconnected sections, but for the most part they’re perfectly straight N-S and the name doesn’t change.
I’ve always thought it was cool that many of the arterials keep their names when crossing state lines. You can actually drive Getwell from its starting point near the University of Memphis all the way past I-269 without having to turn. It’s pretty much the most direct route from central Memphis to central DeSoto County.
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rlb2024

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #673 on: April 04, 2022, 03:24:27 PM »

Despite living here, I just drove on I-269 for the first time and its a little boring..but idk if I expected more. The “Getwell” and “Laughter” road exits being back to back provides a little amusement tho XD

Edit: (Im just now realizing there’s also a Getwell rd exit on I-240. I didn’t realize it entered both states)

Many of the N-S road names in Shelby Co., TN’s grid continue into DeSoto Co., MS with no name change.  Millbranch, Airways, Swinnea, Tchulahoma, and Malone are other examples that I’m seeing.  Sometimes there are disconnected sections, but for the most part they’re perfectly straight N-S and the name doesn’t change.
I’ve always thought it was cool that many of the arterials keep their names when crossing state lines. You can actually drive Getwell from its starting point near the University of Memphis all the way past I-269 without having to turn. It’s pretty much the most direct route from central Memphis to central DeSoto County.
A little history on the name of Getwell Road -- the original name of the road was Shotwell.  During WWII a VA hospital was built on acreage at the intersection of Park Avenue and Shotwell in Memphis.  City and county leaders didn't want to remind the patients at the VA of their injuries, so Shotwell was renamed to Getwell.  (Well, all but the northern-most six blocks, which remained Shotwell for some reason.)

The old VA hospital location is now the south campus of the University of Memphis.
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golden eagle

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Re: Mississippi
« Reply #674 on: April 12, 2022, 01:20:37 PM »

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