Is passing on two-lane roads a lost art?

[1995hoo]

I'm curious whether anyone else thinks it seems like many drivers have forgotten either that you're allowed to pass on two-lane roads (when permitted by the lines, of course) or how to do it. I know at least on the East Coast it's often more difficult to pass than it used to be due to increased traffic and seemingly fewer passing zones, with the latter perhaps being a result of the former (I hypothesize that perhaps some of the shorter passing zones may have been eliminated as traffic increased), and certainly we've all had the bad luck of encountering situations where someone comes the other way every time you hit a passing zone so you're just plain stuck, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Yesterday we took a football trip to Charlottesville and our route uses a couple of segments of two-lane highway (VA-20 between Wilderness and Orange; VA-231/22 between Gordonsville and Shadwell). We all know that successful passing on a two-lane road often requires that you pull up somewhat close to the vehicle ahead of you as you approach a passing zone, especially if you're on a road that doesn't have a lot of them. Multiple times yesterday I saw people tailgating slow vehicles as if they were waiting to pass, yet then not passing when they finally reached a passing zone and instead continuing to tailgate (which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once). This isn't the first time I've observed this sort of thing and it makes me wonder whether people on the East Coast spend so much less time on two-lane roads than was the case in the past that maybe they don't know how to pass or are afraid to do it? (Ms1995hoo doesn't especially like it when I pass on that sort of road either, although she concedes that it's damn annoying when you get stuck behind someone who can't hold a consistent speed and is doing 60 in a 55 zone one minute and 40 in the same 55 zone a minute later.)

[Brandon]

No, I'd say it's still very common, rather than a lost art.  Maybe the "lost art" part is an East Coast thing, but here in the Midwest, passing on two-lanes roads is very common.

[Zeffy]

On most weekdays, there is simply too much oncoming traffic to execute a pass safely, at least here in central New Jersey. On the weekends, specifically Sunday it's more possible depending on the time of the year. (Nice weather can equal more traffic heading towards the Shore)

(which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once)

Someone told me that you can only [legally] pass one vehicle per time by using passing zones. Was I misinformed?

[wanderer2575]

I get passed often enough on Michigan rural highways that I don't think it's a lost art.  (For the record, I drive the speed limit, maybe five over.)  There are some who won't pass no way, no how.  But I think it's more an issue of increased traffic and simply the oncoming lane not being clear.  That's often the case when I want to pass someone who is actually driving slower than I.

What I don't get is people who think I'm going to speed up when they ride my bumper.  (I know, wrong thread to get started on that.)

Somewhat OT, your question brings back to mind an irritating episode from a road trip 25+ years ago.  I was on some twist highway through the mountains out west with no other vehicle within 100 miles of me EXCEPT a @#$%&! truck in front of me, at least 20 below the speed limit, and I COULD NOT GET AROUND IT.  I'm surprised I didn't burst a blood vessel in my fury.  It didn't occur to me at the time to simply pull over and wait ten minutes to get some distance between us.

[corco]

I do think it's becoming a little bit of a lost art. Passing is certainly a necessity in this part of the country, so it occurs on a regular basis.

What happens that's weird, though, is that I've noticed more and more people tailgate the car they are passing, pull out into the oncoming lane, and then accelerate before merging back in. That increases the amount of time they have to be in the oncoming lane, which makes it more difficult to safely pass if there is oncoming traffic. The more proper approach is to lay off, get a running start, and then pass quickly.

I think partially because of that, I see people being needlessly timid. Our sightlines out here are pretty great - on a straight road you can often see 3/4 of a mile to a mile ahead. If there's oncoming traffic on the far end of that sight horizon, and you're in something other than a 1987 Yugo, you should be able to safely pass without running any kind of risk of a head on collision, even at Montana driving speeds (70-75 MPH). I see a lot of people refusing to pass if there is any oncoming traffic. When I drive at night, I actually prefer to see oncoming traffic - if I can see headlights in the far distance, I know there's not going to be an unexpected curve or something and know I'm probably clear to pass.

Then there is the whole etiquette thing as you mentioned - if you aren't planning on passing, you need to leave gaps so that people can pass you. I'll say that when I was in Delaware clinching that system earlier that summer, I did find people overly timid about passing and at least a couple times had to work my way up to the front of a 10+ car line, usually through a series of 5-7 individual passing maneuvers. That's hard to do when people are tailgating, and required me to sort of wedge my way in (probably unsafely in the eyes of the tailgating driver) a couple times.

I guess perhaps it is a lost art back east, now that you mention it. I think it's a dying art around here.

Somewhat OT, your question brings back to mind an irritating episode from a road trip 25+ years ago.  I was on some twist highway through the mountains out west with no other vehicle within 100 miles of me EXCEPT a @#$%&! truck in front of me, at least 20 below the speed limit, and I COULD NOT GET AROUND IT.  I'm surprised I didn't burst a blood vessel in my fury.  It didn't occur to me at the time to simply pull over and wait ten minutes to get some distance between us.

Idaho law requires you to pull out at the next available turnout if you are delaying more than three vehicles, and this is both signed and enforced on mountainous roads.

In other states, I find bright-flashing/horn honking as vehicles drive by turnouts usually eventually gets the job done to people who are just totally oblivious. Alternatively, if there is a paved shoulder I've been known to just do the Mexico thing and pull out anyway on mountain roads, honking my horn prior to passing (honking prior to passing is actually required by law at least in most western states - I tend not to do it unless it seems necessary because the driver seems to not be paying attention, or they're tailgating and I need their gap as mentioned above, and in practice you don't see it done very often).

Someone told me that you can only [legally] pass one vehicle per time by using passing zones. Was I misinformed?

I think that's probably good defensive driving practice, but I don't think it's the law. I think my record is passing six semitrucks on US 212 in SE Montana without returning to the correct driving lane.

[SignGeek101]

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

[TEG24601]

It really depends on the road.  Some people wait far too long, or can't have any cars in the distance before they bother to pass.


The thing I've actually seen as the problem is people being unable to break 50 on a two lane road.  There are many here that are 55, and getting stuck behind someone who won't go past 45, and then not pulling into the slow traffic lane or speeding up when a passing area comes up is so frustrating.

[corco]

speeding up when a passing area comes up

I've noticed that becoming more of a problem lately on mountain roads. If you go slowly around the curves, and there is a brief passing lane and there are people who don't want to pass, don't speed up - continue going the same speed so that those other cars can pass you.

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

A 150 mile drive on a two lane road behind a truck going the 60 MPH truck speed limit in Montana takes 2.5 hours. A 150 mile drive on a two lane road at the car speed limit of 70 MPH in Montana takes about 2 hours and 8 minutes. So about 11 minutes an hour. That's a pretty significant chunk of time.

[Zeffy]

I think that's probably good defensive driving practice, but I don't think it's the law. I think my record is passing six semitrucks on US 212 in SE Montana without returning to the correct driving lane.

I envy you. Most of the time I have the opportunity to pass a single vehicle. Passing six semis in one go is something that I feel is nearly impossible over in the Northeast.

[AlexandriaVA]

I can say in Fairfax County Public Schools driver's ed or my behind-the-wheel instruction, rural passing was never brought up. We did spend time on parallel parking.

I guess you focus your limited education and instruction time on what you expect drivers to experience.

[SectorZ]

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

I get concerned with people who are "uncomfortable" about doing it. People who are uncomfortable doing lawful things on roadways may not be 100% fit to drive. Given how many are simultaneously tailgating while doing it are creating a higher risk of an accident.

And, I see this constantly in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, some people or either too lazy to pass, too scared, or literally aren't skilled enough of a driver to do it without ending up in the woods.

[1995hoo]

(which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once)

Someone told me that you can only [legally] pass one vehicle per time by using passing zones. Was I misinformed?

I recall learning the same thing you did, but it's a situation where road reality trumps by-the-book technicality. Plus as a practical matter with the way people tailgate you may have no choice but to pass multiple vehicles due to lack of room to get back over.

I'd guess this is another one of those things that may vary in different states. I would not be surprised if passing multiple vehicles were prohibited in most East Coast states but permitted out west where long-distance travel on two-lane roads is more important and sight lines are often better. (Seeing 65-mph speed limits on two-lane roads during our trip out west earlier this fall was a nice new experience for me.)

[noelbotevera]

Eh. Here in PA, select few know how to do it. Just simply don't do it near a curve, overspeed, and make sure your view is clear, so you don't ram into a car when you overtake. That's my interpretation anyway (plus extensive reading from the PA Driver's Manual).

[SignGeek101]

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

I get concerned with people who are "uncomfortable" about doing it. People who are uncomfortable doing lawful things on roadways may not be 100% fit to drive. Given how many are simultaneously tailgating while doing it are creating a higher risk of an accident.

And, I see this constantly in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, some people or either too lazy to pass, too scared, or literally aren't skilled enough of a driver to do it without ending up in the woods.

I'm also 19 and have spent more time (and distance) riding a bus than behind the wheel (either in the city or on a highway). On top of that, when I drive, it's usually the speed limit or a little faster. If people are so keen to pass me (and thus put themselves in danger by going faster than a posted limit) than go right ahead. I'm fine with that. Last summer (the last time I drove on a two lane highway), I estimated about 6-8 cars passed me when I was going 105-110 (65 - 70 mph) in a 100 zone as it was getting dark.

Of course some people don't want to do the speed limit on some roadways, because they feel uncomfortable doing it, even in good weather. It may be concerning, because it appears that person doesn't have the mental ability to perform the function of driving at a higher speed. But at the end of the day, it's their choice to do a slower speed (obviously above a posted minimum), even in good weather, and it's perfectly legal.

I don't understand why it's a huge problem if people don't want to pass. If there's a truck in front of me going at slow speed, and I don't want to pass, does it really matter to you? If it's throwing rocks at my windshield, then I'll pass. If I don't then I won't. If another driver behind me wants to pass, go ahead. I'm fine with that.

Sorry if this felt like it was an aggressive post, but just because it's perfectly legal, doesn't mean it's mandatory.

[1995hoo]

I can say in Fairfax County Public Schools driver's ed or my behind-the-wheel instruction, rural passing was never brought up. We did spend time on parallel parking.

....

Heh, whereas I also grew up in Fairfax County (Woodson HS) but took a private behind-the-wheel class and parallel parking was not taught. I taught myself to do it.

I do not remember whether the behind-the-wheel instructor talked about two-lane roads. We did spend some time on a few that no longer exist (Pohick Road from Huntsman Boulevard to Route 123 was one; it's now the Fairfax County Parkway), but I just don't remember whether passing was part of it. I'd done enough travel on two-lane roads growing up that I'd learned the technique pretty well from my father as it was.

[AlexandriaVA]

I can say in Fairfax County Public Schools driver's ed or my behind-the-wheel instruction, rural passing was never brought up. We did spend time on parallel parking.

....

Heh, whereas I also grew up in Fairfax County (Woodson HS) but took a private behind-the-wheel class and parallel parking was not taught. I taught myself to do it.

I do not remember whether the behind-the-wheel instructor talked about two-lane roads. We did spend some time on a few that no longer exist (Pohick Road from Huntsman Boulevard to Route 123 was one; it's now the Fairfax County Parkway), but I just don't remember whether passing was part of it. I'd done enough travel on two-lane roads growing up that I'd learned the technique pretty well from my father as it was.

Keith's driving school. Not sure if he's still in business. Said that if I didn't learn parallel parking young, I'd never bother to learn it. He also hated Maryland and people from Baltimore in particular. Claimed he taught all of the brothers who formed Five Guys how to drive.

[74/171FAN]

I do remember cars passing school buses on VA 156 in Prince George County when I was younger.  Though I am pretty sure that it is against the law.

[corco]

Really? Definitely allowed out here if they aren't stopped - but then we're probably dealing with much more rural areas.

[1995hoo]

Keith's driving school. Not sure if he's still in business. Said that if I didn't learn parallel parking young, I'd never bother to learn it. He also hated Maryland and people from Baltimore in particular. Claimed he taught all of the brothers who formed Five Guys how to drive.

Keith Vance? I remember him. He was the instructor I had but he hadn't started his own business yet–I took the class through Northern Virginia Driving School, at least I think that was the name (it's been almost 27 years, of course!). I recall him having a bit of a volcanic temper.

[AlexandriaVA]

Keith's driving school. Not sure if he's still in business. Said that if I didn't learn parallel parking young, I'd never bother to learn it. He also hated Maryland and people from Baltimore in particular. Claimed he taught all of the brothers who formed Five Guys how to drive.

Keith Vance? I remember him. He was the instructor I had but he hadn't started his own business yet–I took the class through Northern Virginia Driving School, at least I think that was the name (it's been almost 27 years, of course!). I recall him having a bit of a volcanic temper.

Possibly. He had his own set of brakes rigged to the passenger side where he sat.

He also had me pull into a 7-11 down near Burke so he could grab a sandwich and drink (night classes at the time, 7 8 9 PM). According to a *sigh* Fairfax Underground thread, that wasn't a rare thing: http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/read/2/492330.html

Apparently he also closed the business among shady allegations of bounced paychecks and the like.

He taught me to stop at a red light such that you could just see the rear tires of the car in front of you. Still use it.

[1995hoo]

That all sounds quite familiar!

I stop that same way most of the time unless I pull up to give someone room to access the turn lane. Drives me crazy how people have taken to leaving a car length or more at a red light.

[vdeane]

I'll pass sometimes, but I'm often afraid that an oncoming car will pop out from behind the next curve or hill every time I do, so I often limit it to when I have a long sight distance (rare in the northeast), there isn't much oncoming traffic anyways, the vehicle ahead is going very slow (and thus easier to pass), or if I'm already pissed off at the vehicle in front.  Several times I've attempted to pass someone, moved over, accelerated up to pass in a quick manner, and then had to slam on my brakes and get back behind because of an oncoming car that just appeared.

Even with my timidness with passing, I'm still more aggressive than the majority of upstate NY drivers and the entirety of Vermont drivers.  So yeah, I'd definitely say it's a lost art, at least in the northeast.

Someone told me that you can only [legally] pass one vehicle per time by using passing zones. Was I misinformed?

That's what I've heard too.  In college, one of my professors even got pulled over for passing multiple cars at once.

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

The "rush" is that driving slower than the speed I'm accustomed to for given roadway conditions feels physically painful.

I don't understand why it's a huge problem if people don't want to pass. If there's a truck in front of me going at slow speed, and I don't want to pass, does it really matter to you? If it's throwing rocks at my windshield, then I'll pass. If I don't then I won't. If another driver behind me wants to pass, go ahead. I'm fine with that.

Well, if you're refusal to pass makes it impossible for others to pass the truck, I can very well see why they'd be annoyed by it.

[jakeroot]

I do remember cars passing school buses on VA 156 in Prince George County when I was younger.  Though I am pretty sure that it is against the law.

Really? Definitely allowed out here if they aren't stopped - but then we're probably dealing with much more rural areas.

I think the saying is "Do not pass when red lights flash"; ergo, you may pass when red lights aren't flashing.



There is one road near me that I use to get to work, where the road is winding and has very few signals. Depending on the time of day when I'm going to work (which varies depending on my shift), I will overtake cars in front of me if A) they are going slower than the limit (limit = 40, I will pass if they are averaging below that) or B) I am behind a truck (kicking rocks or not, I don't like the lack of visibility -- it's like driving behind a wall, and it makes me uncomfortable). Of course, you can't legally overtake if the vehicle is going above the limit, so trucks that are going above the limit, I just back off from and wait it out. But usually because the road goes up and down, trucks have a hard time maintaining the limit.

I tend to think of passing zones (without oncoming cars) as being a road with two lanes in one direction. On the opposite end, when I'm on a freeway, I tend to think of the left lane as an oncoming lane, reserved only for passing. This state of mind helps me be A) more liberal on two lane roads so that I can make reasonable progress, and B) be more conservative when I'm on a freeway so I don't camp in the left lane.

[Mapmikey]

I'm curious whether anyone else thinks it seems like many drivers have forgotten either that you're allowed to pass on two-lane roads (when permitted by the lines, of course) or how to do it. I know at least on the East Coast it's often more difficult to pass than it used to be due to increased traffic and seemingly fewer passing zones, with the latter perhaps being a result of the former (I hypothesize that perhaps some of the shorter passing zones may have been eliminated as traffic increased), and certainly we've all had the bad luck of encountering situations where someone comes the other way every time you hit a passing zone so you're just plain stuck, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Yesterday we took a football trip to Charlottesville and our route uses a couple of segments of two-lane highway (VA-20 between Wilderness and Orange; VA-231/22 between Gordonsville and Shadwell). We all know that successful passing on a two-lane road often requires that you pull up somewhat close to the vehicle ahead of you as you approach a passing zone, especially if you're on a road that doesn't have a lot of them. Multiple times yesterday I saw people tailgating slow vehicles as if they were waiting to pass, yet then not passing when they finally reached a passing zone and instead continuing to tailgate (which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once). This isn't the first time I've observed this sort of thing and it makes me wonder whether people on the East Coast spend so much less time on two-lane roads than was the case in the past that maybe they don't know how to pass or are afraid to do it? (Ms1995hoo doesn't especially like it when I pass on that sort of road either, although she concedes that it's damn annoying when you get stuck behind someone who can't hold a consistent speed and is doing 60 in a 55 zone one minute and 40 in the same 55 zone a minute later.)

I've driven both of the 2-lane roads you refer to dozens upon dozens of times.  I have seen plenty of passing on VA 20.  Not very much on VA 22/231 which has a 50 mph speed limit and terrible sight lines from numerous curves and the rolling hills...

Mike

[corco]

Several times I've attempted to pass someone, moved over, accelerated up to pass in a quick manner, and then had to slam on my brakes and get back behind because of an oncoming car that just appeared.

And that will happen - there's nothing wrong with that. That's part of passing and should be expected to happen sometimes.

I'd recommend swapping "accelerated up to pass in a quick manner" with "moved over" in your order - if you're already going fast, you won't have to be building speed so much in the oncoming lane, so you can get in and out much more quickly if an oncoming car appears. You also won't be in a position where you're slamming the accelerator and then the brake in rapid succession - you'll already be mostly up to speed, which physics tells us is safer.

It's kind of more intuitive to tailgate, pull out, accelerate, and pass - and a lot of people do it that way -  but it's much less safe to pass in that manner. If I see somebody I want to pass, I lay off and then gun it, tailgating them only for about half a second as I whip into the oncoming lane as late as I possibly can. Frankly, it's hard to see oncoming traffic when you're tailgating the car in front of you, so your sightline should be better if you lay off anyway. The risk to that approach is the car in front of you slamming their brakes and you not being able to stop, but you should have access to the oncoming lane if you have to swerve around anyway.

For that reason I think there is one exception in which the "pull out and gun it" method works best - and that's on fairly steep downhill grades, though I think most defensive driver courses would probably tell you not to pass cars going downhill.