Is passing on two-lane roads a lost art?

[jwolfer]

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

I like to have the road clear in front of me if possible. You don't have to worry about the car slamming on brakes etc. And if a vehicle is going super slow, it probably has mechanical problems, is overloaded, driver impaired or inexperienced. It is smarter and safer to be away from such vehicles You are able to see the road ahead and the vistas. Makes the drive less stressful.

And it can save time, admittedly the time saved by passing is usually gone at the next traffic light. But having a clear roadnin front of me is worth it.

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I'm pretty cautious about it. Typically when I need to pass people it's when I'm driving on MN 61, which has a lot of curves and rolling hills, and no passing lanes beyond Gooseberry Falls. There are few truly viable sections to pass between Gooseberry and Grand Marais.

[1995hoo]

I'm curious whether anyone else thinks it seems like many drivers have forgotten either that you're allowed to pass on two-lane roads (when permitted by the lines, of course) or how to do it. I know at least on the East Coast it's often more difficult to pass than it used to be due to increased traffic and seemingly fewer passing zones, with the latter perhaps being a result of the former (I hypothesize that perhaps some of the shorter passing zones may have been eliminated as traffic increased), and certainly we've all had the bad luck of encountering situations where someone comes the other way every time you hit a passing zone so you're just plain stuck, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Yesterday we took a football trip to Charlottesville and our route uses a couple of segments of two-lane highway (VA-20 between Wilderness and Orange; VA-231/22 between Gordonsville and Shadwell). We all know that successful passing on a two-lane road often requires that you pull up somewhat close to the vehicle ahead of you as you approach a passing zone, especially if you're on a road that doesn't have a lot of them. Multiple times yesterday I saw people tailgating slow vehicles as if they were waiting to pass, yet then not passing when they finally reached a passing zone and instead continuing to tailgate (which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once). This isn't the first time I've observed this sort of thing and it makes me wonder whether people on the East Coast spend so much less time on two-lane roads than was the case in the past that maybe they don't know how to pass or are afraid to do it? (Ms1995hoo doesn't especially like it when I pass on that sort of road either, although she concedes that it's damn annoying when you get stuck behind someone who can't hold a consistent speed and is doing 60 in a 55 zone one minute and 40 in the same 55 zone a minute later.)

I've driven both of the 2-lane roads you refer to dozens upon dozens of times.  I have seen plenty of passing on VA 20.  Not very much on VA 22/231 which has a 50 mph speed limit and terrible sight lines from numerous curves and the rolling hills...

Mike

I've driven them hundreds of times over the years since I learned about that route between Charlottesville and Northern Virginia from my college roommate second and third years (not coincidentally, when I gave him a lift home from school, it was by far the most direct route because his parents lived near Mount Vernon). My perception is that passing used to be far more common on that segment of Route 20 than it is nowadays.

It's never been "easy" to pass on Route 231/22 because of the reasons you cite. It's easier northbound than it is southbound because there are more passing zones northbound, but either way, there's one good passing zone a short distance north of that scenic little church near Cismont. Last night we were stuck two vehicles behind a limo whose driver was constantly slowing down big-time. The guy in front of us was inches from the limo's bumper like he wanted the guy to go faster, but when we reached the passing zone (which I knew was coming), the guy didn't pass until AFTER I had passed both of them. (My wife would say I whipped out to pass before the guy even got a chance, but I'd disagree with her because I hung back briefly in case he did pull out.) On the next two-lane segment (Route 20 from Orange up to Route 3 at Wilderness), the guy ahead of us tailgated constantly and never passed, even after I passed him and the guy in front of him.

I guess what I don't understand, and what prompted me to start this thread, is–it seems like tailgating has become the accepted way to express displeasure with the speed of the vehicle ahead of you. So if you want to go faster and you can legally pass the guy, and you clearly have space to do so (as others have noted, at night it's especially easy to see oncoming headlights), why wouldn't you do it? Why would you continue to tailgate for 10 or 15 miles? It makes no sense at all to me to drive like that.

Incidentally, I always drive with my headlights on when I'm on two-lane roads that have passing zones,* regardless of the time of day or weather (none of our cars have DRLs). I saw this done in Canada when I was a kid riding with my parents and I quickly saw how much easier it makes it to see oncoming cars, so I've always done it to make it easier for someone coming the other way to see me if he's trying to decide whether it's safe to pass.

*"Two-lane roads that have passing zones" meant to distinguish rural highways where such zones are common versus things like suburban streets. I don't necessarily have my lights on when I drive on the latter, though I suppose there are a number of aggressive drivers in my neighborhood who will pass over the double yellow line if you're not going at least 40 mph in the 25-mph zone.....


Edited to add: I should mention that I used yesterday's trip solely as an example because it's what prompted me to think about the issue. I see the same thing pretty much whenever I drive on two-lane roads on the East Coast, though–people seem to be reluctant to pass. The same was definitely not the case on our trip to New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, and Arizona earlier this fall. As I noted earlier, I don't doubt people there spend more time on two-lane roads and encounter less traffic overall on them. Either way, I know I've never been reluctant to pass when I think it's appropriate!

[SignGeek101]

I don't understand why it's a huge problem if people don't want to pass. If there's a truck in front of me going at slow speed, and I don't want to pass, does it really matter to you? If it's throwing rocks at my windshield, then I'll pass. If I don't then I won't. If another driver behind me wants to pass, go ahead. I'm fine with that.

Well, if your refusal to pass makes it impossible for others to pass the truck, I can very well see why they'd be annoyed by it.

Fair enough. I suppose I could just pull over and let cars pass.

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

I like to have the road clear in front of me if possible. You don't have to worry about the car slamming on brakes etc. And if a vehicle is going super slow, it probably has mechanical problems, is overloaded, driver impaired or inexperienced. It is smarter and safer to be away from such vehicles You are able to see the road ahead and the vistas. Makes the drive less stressful.

And it can save time, admittedly the time saved by passing is usually gone at the next traffic light. But having a clear roadnin front of me is worth it.

I can't argue with that.  Especially in the winter time.

I guess all I'm trying to say is that because I haven't been trained at all in passing on a two lane highway, I've never felt the requirement of doing it. I've hardly done it, and thus I'm inexperienced and uncomfortable. I got my full licence when I was still 17 (only about 15-16 months after my first drive), and, at least for me, passing on a highway, nor parallel parking was tested (which I have trouble doing as well) on my only road test. Besides that though, I believe I'm a careful and alert driver, who can perform well enough to be considered safe for everyone else.

I think the point above partially addresses the question in the OP. Perhaps drivers are just more incapable of passing than they used to. Or, maybe it's due to more freeways and multi-laned highways.

I don't like driving period, but doing this just pushes it over the edge for me.

[74/171FAN]

I do remember cars passing school buses on VA 156 in Prince George County when I was younger.  Though I am pretty sure that it is against the law.

Really? Definitely allowed out here if they aren't stopped - but then we're probably dealing with much more rural areas.

I think the saying is "Do not pass when red lights flash"; ergo, you may pass when red lights aren't flashing.

Yes I was talking about when not stopped.  I should have clarified that and I am unsure where I heard that from but it may be the case in VA.

EDIT:  I did not find anything in VA's DMV Manual on it.  So I may be wrong, unless 1995hoo or someone knows otherwise.

[Buffaboy]

I don't think passing is lost in rural areas. In the exurbs of Buffalo, I have gone the speed limit [55] on rural 2 lane roads but have had people blow past me doing 70 to pass.

[1995hoo]

I do remember cars passing school buses on VA 156 in Prince George County when I was younger.  Though I am pretty sure that it is against the law.

Really? Definitely allowed out here if they aren't stopped - but then we're probably dealing with much more rural areas.

I think the saying is "Do not pass when red lights flash"; ergo, you may pass when red lights aren't flashing.

Yes I was talking about when not stopped.  I should have clarified that and I am unsure where I heard that from but it may be the case in VA.

EDIT:  I did not find anything in VA's DMV Manual on it.  So I may be wrong, unless 1995hoo or someone knows otherwise.

I'm not aware of any prohibition on passing a moving school bus. Given that in Virginia they're restricted to slower speeds than other traffic (used to be 45 in a 55 zone and 55 in a 65, not sure if that's still the case), it's quite understandable why people would pass them.

The Virginia DMV manual is an imperfect source, though. For example, it says it's illegal to turn right on a red arrow in Virginia. That's wrong. It's legal unless a sign prohibits it. The statute doesn't distinguish between red arrows and red ball indicators.

[D-Dey65]

I'm curious whether anyone else thinks it seems like many drivers have forgotten either that you're allowed to pass on two-lane roads (when permitted by the lines, of course) or how to do it. I know at least on the East Coast it's often more difficult to pass than it used to be due to increased traffic and seemingly fewer passing zones, with the latter perhaps being a result of the former

More or less. There are still plenty of two-lane roads where legally you can pass, but common sense indicates you'd better not try it. I even find this to be the case on some of the most desolate sections of FL 52 between US 41 and west of I-75, or FL 50 in Sumter County, or even the roads of Ocala National Forest. Not that I haven't had and used the opportunity to pass on two lane roads before, I got used to the idea of avoiding the opportunity on NY 112 before I was old enough to drive.

[74/171FAN]

I do remember cars passing school buses on VA 156 in Prince George County when I was younger.  Though I am pretty sure that it is against the law.

Really? Definitely allowed out here if they aren't stopped - but then we're probably dealing with much more rural areas.

I think the saying is "Do not pass when red lights flash"; ergo, you may pass when red lights aren't flashing.

Yes I was talking about when not stopped.  I should have clarified that and I am unsure where I heard that from but it may be the case in VA.

EDIT:  I did not find anything in VA's DMV Manual on it.  So I may be wrong, unless 1995hoo or someone knows otherwise.

I'm not aware of any prohibition on passing a moving school bus. Given that in Virginia they're restricted to slower speeds than other traffic (used to be 45 in a 55 zone and 55 in a 65, not sure if that's still the case), it's quite understandable why people would pass them.

The Virginia DMV manual is an imperfect source, though. For example, it says it's illegal to turn right on a red arrow in Virginia. That's wrong. It's legal unless a sign prohibits it. The statute doesn't distinguish between red arrows and red ball indicators.

Petersburg a few years ago had tried to say that a red arrow was an automatic no right turn on red, but they had to put up a sign on Wagner Rd at US 301 (S Crater Rd) for that reason.

[GCrites]

Around here there's just so much more volume on the 2-lanes than there used to be. I don't spend much time in the flatter areas to the west and north of Columbus and much more time in the hilly stuff these days where it's tough to pass.

[empirestate]

From my routine observation driving around the Northeast–NY, New England and the Mid-Atlantic–I would say no, there is no shortage of drivers ready willing and able to pass on a two-lane. Yes, the opportunities to do so are fewer and shorter here than they are in the West, but I'd say that the majority of drivers who come up behind me, and seem like they're just itching to pass at any given opportunity, will in fact do so once that opportunity presents itself.

Don't know why my observation seems to differ from so many of you out there, but that seems to happen to me a lot anyway, so it's not too surprising. I seem to have developed a knack for not sharing the experience of things said to be widespread, despite having ample exposure to the same situations.

[Rothman]

I do think it's a lost art.  I had to practically teach myself just because of the lack of opportunities here in the East to actually pull out and pass, but even when those opportunities present themselves, I still find myself behind a line of cars far too frequently.

Love doing it, though.  There's something satisfying about blowing by some slowpoke.

There was once in western Kansas where I tried to pass a pickup; they sped up.  It was in a pretty desolate area.  We got up to over 80 mph, but the guy was just trying to impress the girl he had with him.  He eventually let us around.

...

The most ridiculous passing zones I'm aware of are on KY 122 between Minnie and Wheelwright.  They're about 50 feet long with curves on either end.  I think there are only two along that stretch, if that, if I remember correctly.

[Brandon]

There was once in western Kansas where I tried to pass a pickup; they sped up.  It was in a pretty desolate area.  We got up to over 80 mph, but the guy was just trying to impress the girl he had with him.  He eventually let us around.

Shit, they don't need to impress anyone around here to do that crappola.  That's just FIB SOP: speed up when they try to pass, slow down in the no passing zone.

[US 41]

In my area: Most Indiana drivers seem to just want to tailgate, but they are reluctant to pass. Most Illinois drivers seem to tailgate, but have no problem with passing.
----------------------------------------------------
Based on my experiences New Mexico seems to have the best drivers. They don't tailgate, but they're willing to pass you when they get a chance. I'm honestly considering moving to either New Mexico or Texas pretty soon.

[AsphaltPlanet]

I overtake vehicles on two lane highways fairly regularly.  I will note however that traffic signals are often great equalizers of traffic.  I'm less inclined to overtake a vehicle on a two lane highway if I feel as though they are just going to catch up with me again and again at each red traffic signal that I reach.  Before passing on a busy road, I'm also inclined to scan the road ahead to see if I am just going to catch up with more traffic in a minute or two, negating the benefiting of passing.  This might be true of other drivers in the heavily populated northeast as well.  I'm much more inclined to pass on a very rural highway with limited traffic signals, and lighter traffic.

One of the unique things about driving in Ontario is that the centre-line stripe of a road is not legally enforceable.  It is therefore legal (though not recommend) to pass on a double yellow centre-line.  This can be useful when passing very slow moving farm equipment, in areas where it would not otherwise be recommended to pass.  I know that most other jurisdictions in North America do not have the same legal standards associated with line striping.

[vdeane]

I guess what I don't understand, and what prompted me to start this thread, is–it seems like tailgating has become the accepted way to express displeasure with the speed of the vehicle ahead of you. So if you want to go faster and you can legally pass the guy, and you clearly have space to do so (as others have noted, at night it's especially easy to see oncoming headlights), why wouldn't you do it? Why would you continue to tailgate for 10 or 15 miles? It makes no sense at all to me to drive like that.

I actually encountered someone like that drving back from the Watertown roadmeet.  I was going up NY 56 at night and there was this guy behind me tailgating and constantly flashing his brights, and yet passing zone after passing zone went by and he never passed.  Then I was approaching the traffic light for the S curve, which was red, and a double yellow line, and THEN he passed.  To get to a red light one car length ahead.  When it turned out that the other cars were going no faster than I was in the first place.

From my routine observation driving around the Northeast–NY, New England and the Mid-Atlantic–I would say no, there is no shortage of drivers ready willing and able to pass on a two-lane. Yes, the opportunities to do so are fewer and shorter here than they are in the West, but I'd say that the majority of drivers who come up behind me, and seem like they're just itching to pass at any given opportunity, will in fact do so once that opportunity presents itself.

Don't know why my observation seems to differ from so many of you out there, but that seems to happen to me a lot anyway, so it's not too surprising. I seem to have developed a knack for not sharing the experience of things said to be widespread, despite having ample exposure to the same situations.

Oddly enough, it seems like whenever someone's behind me, they pass a decent amount of the time.  When they're in front and behind someone else who I would like to also pass, they almost never do.

[cpzilliacus]

I'm curious whether anyone else thinks it seems like many drivers have forgotten either that you're allowed to pass on two-lane roads (when permitted by the lines, of course) or how to do it. I know at least on the East Coast it's often more difficult to pass than it used to be due to increased traffic and seemingly fewer passing zones, with the latter perhaps being a result of the former (I hypothesize that perhaps some of the shorter passing zones may have been eliminated as traffic increased), and certainly we've all had the bad luck of encountering situations where someone comes the other way every time you hit a passing zone so you're just plain stuck, but that's not what I'm getting at.

Yesterday we took a football trip to Charlottesville and our route uses a couple of segments of two-lane highway (VA-20 between Wilderness and Orange; VA-231/22 between Gordonsville and Shadwell). We all know that successful passing on a two-lane road often requires that you pull up somewhat close to the vehicle ahead of you as you approach a passing zone, especially if you're on a road that doesn't have a lot of them. Multiple times yesterday I saw people tailgating slow vehicles as if they were waiting to pass, yet then not passing when they finally reached a passing zone and instead continuing to tailgate (which then caused me to pull out and pass two or three people at once). This isn't the first time I've observed this sort of thing and it makes me wonder whether people on the East Coast spend so much less time on two-lane roads than was the case in the past that maybe they don't know how to pass or are afraid to do it? (Ms1995hoo doesn't especially like it when I pass on that sort of road either, although she concedes that it's damn annoying when you get stuck behind someone who can't hold a consistent speed and is doing 60 in a 55 zone one minute and 40 in the same 55 zone a minute later.)

I am personally familiar with that road (Va. 20) even though I did not attend UVa, but have been to professional meetings near the lawn area.  Certainly there are areas where passing is safe and appropriate.

My method is usually to allow some distance between me and the vehicle I want to pass, and then downshift and floor it, until I have completed the pass and am back in my lane.

[DandyDan]

When I am in rural Nebraska or Iowa, either I pass vehicles all the time, or my parents, when I'm with them, get passed all the time.  So it's not lost here.  I suspect, however, that people who never leave Omaha may have never learned it in the first place.  I suspect it's possible that since the majority of long distance travel is done on interstates and other divided highways that people may have forgotten it.

[Buffaboy]

I do think it's a lost art.  I had to practically teach myself just because of the lack of opportunities here in the East to actually pull out and pass, but even when those opportunities present themselves, I still find myself behind a line of cars far too frequently.

Love doing it, though.  There's something satisfying about blowing by some slowpoke.

There was once in western Kansas where I tried to pass a pickup; they sped up.  It was in a pretty desolate area.  We got up to over 80 mph, but the guy was just trying to impress the girl he had with him.  He eventually let us around.

...

The most ridiculous passing zones I'm aware of are on KY 122 between Minnie and Wheelwright.  They're about 50 feet long with curves on either end.  I think there are only two along that stretch, if that, if I remember correctly.

That's a funny story. But yes, as vdeane said I just can't think to pass in certain situations when I could turn into a pancake coming around a corner.

[CtrlAltDel]

I like to have the road clear in front of me if possible. You don't have to worry about the car slamming on brakes etc.

That's interesting. I prefer to have the whole road to myself, of course, but if given a choice between having someone in front of me or someone behind me, I would prefer they be in front of me. I feel I have more control keeping myself from rear-ending them than them rear-ending me.

[Duke87]

Part of the problem, I think, is a lost art of courtesy on the part of the passee. If I notice that someone is about to pass me, I will take my foot off the gas and move over to the right edge of the lane in order to allow them to get past me as quickly as possible. But this requires attentiveness, something all too many drivers lack. If I go to pass someone, I usually do not get this same courtesy. They just keep puttering along as they were and seemingly don't react to my passing them at all.

Because of this, while I will gladly pass someone who is being a real slowpoke, I am usually unwilling to pass someone who is going only maybe 5 mph slower than I'd like. I have to assume they will continue to drive the same speed when I pass them and will either need a LOT of space or to gun it up to really high speed in order to get around them. Such extra space is rarely available on roads in the northeast so I usually end up following 2 seconds behind these drivers until one of us turns off or I get a passing lane to work with.

Which, incidentally, is another stupid thing too many drivers do: stay to the left when an auxiliary lane appears and just keep puttering along doing 55. Makes them even more difficult to pass!

[Rothman]

Which, incidentally, is another stupid thing too many drivers do: stay to the left when an auxiliary lane appears and just keep puttering along doing 55. Makes them even more difficult to pass!

Although my experience is anecdotal, it's the minority of times where a slowpoke doesn't move into the auxiliary lane...

...which is interesting to me since on four-lane Central Avenue in Albany, slowpokes insist on staying in the left lane.  Maybe Central Avenue needs "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs. 

Just saying that it's odd that people will move over for auxiliary lanes but less so if the road is just typically four-lane.

[Pete from Boston]

I think some people are just uncomfortable with doing it, like myself. Unless there's a semi kicking up rocks in front of you, most of the time, what's the rush anyway?

I get concerned with people who are "uncomfortable" about doing it. People who are uncomfortable doing lawful things on roadways may not be 100% fit to drive. Given how many are simultaneously tailgating while doing it are creating a higher risk of an accident.

And, I see this constantly in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, some people or either too lazy to pass, too scared, or literally aren't skilled enough of a driver to do it without ending up in the woods.

I am one of the many that take exception to this characterization.  Lots of folks are uncomfortable with all manner of city driving, reasonably so, but around here we're used to it.  Same goes for passing on two-lane roads–it's not done around here, and with the little amount I need to do it, you're damn right it's not comfortable.  Not being comfortable with something does not mean one can't do it.

The "rush" is that driving slower than the speed I'm accustomed to for given roadway conditions feels physically painful.

This is a fascinating paraesthesia.  Where does the pain from this annoyance occur, specifically?  There are people who would love to study this.

[vdeane]

Which, incidentally, is another stupid thing too many drivers do: stay to the left when an auxiliary lane appears and just keep puttering along doing 55. Makes them even more difficult to pass!

Although my experience is anecdotal, it's the minority of times where a slowpoke doesn't move into the auxiliary lane...

...which is interesting to me since on four-lane Central Avenue in Albany, slowpokes insist on staying in the left lane.  Maybe Central Avenue needs "Slower Traffic Keep Right" signs. 

Just saying that it's odd that people will move over for auxiliary lanes but less so if the road is just typically four-lane.

I think it depends on area.  In Vermont, everyone goes to the climbing lane unless passing someone.  In many parts of NY, particularly the further west one goes, the opposite is true: nobody moves over, and the climbing lane is used only by trucks who can't get up the hill and people passing on the right.  Albany seems to be a mix.

Regarding Central Ave, it's probably to avoid right turning traffic.  I find that even trying to go the speed limit on that road requires constant lane changes to dodge cars.

The "rush" is that driving slower than the speed I'm accustomed to for given roadway conditions feels physically painful.

This is a fascinating paraesthesia.  Where does the pain from this annoyance occur, specifically?  There are people who would love to study this.

Mainly my head, but also my hands as I tend to grip the steering wheel harder when stressed/frustrated.

[Quillz]

In California, it's pretty hard to pass on two-lane roads now. I was just on the Maricopa Highway the other day (CA-33/CA-166) and wanted to pass a slow truck in front of me. Couldn't do it, because there were many other (speeding) trucks coming towards me. When I finally did pass, it was many miles later.