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The worst vehicle to be stuck behind?

Started by OCGuy81, January 21, 2022, 12:48:37 PM

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Semi truck
10 (37%)
School bus
9 (33.3%)
A truck with a trailer hauling something
8 (29.6%)

Total Members Voted: 27

webny99

Here we go again... it's been a while, but you just never know what will spark a good old left lane camping debate.

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 01, 2022, 12:56:03 AM
of thumb, try to maintain the flow of traffic in the left lane regardless of speed limit. Slowing down and impeding the flow is going to cause more issues than help, even if "legal". Yes, you are legally correct, but in reality, it's not helping. Move over when you can.

That is not how the US works. If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

Actually the many "KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS" signs on highways around the country would suggest that it is how the US works.


Max Rockatansky

Apparently the real answer is this guy:

https://fb.watch/aVgUyzfsjw/

But that's not my opinion, Teddy Roosevelt said it.

1995hoo

I think HighwayStar is simply jealous of how Crash_It, NE2, and kernals12 are widely acknowledged as having a certain status on this forum and he simply wants to one-up them.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Rothman

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on February 01, 2022, 02:29:16 PM
Apparently the real answer is this guy:

https://fb.watch/aVgUyzfsjw/

But that's not my opinion, Teddy Roosevelt said it.
No.  Nonononono.  Not that guy.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

US 89

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 02:17:15 PM
And if that guy is enraged, that is his problem, no sweat off my back.

Not if he takes it out on you...

HighwayStar

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 01, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
I think HighwayStar is simply jealous of how Crash_It, NE2, and kernals12 are widely acknowledged as having a certain status on this forum and he simply wants to one-up them.

:-D

Yeah, I am jealous of some unnamed "status" of other posters on the forum.
Nope, sorry, I love the discussion, and find a lot of good information here, but I really don't care about "status", I have my viewpoint, take it or leave it. To be brutally honest, I rarely read the side panel to tell who said what.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

SkyPesos

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 01, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
I think HighwayStar is simply jealous of how Crash_It, NE2, and kernals12 are widely acknowledged as having a certain status on this forum and he simply wants to one-up them.
I thought HighwayStar has a status here since the I-70 Baltimore thing.

sprjus4

He's a user that seems to have the mindset that he's right 100% of the time and cannot be debated, mind changed, etc.

You can't convince him to change his stances no matter how much logic, facts, etc. you provide. Just move on.

HighwayStar

Quote from: SkyPesos on February 01, 2022, 02:51:28 PM
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 01, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
I think HighwayStar is simply jealous of how Crash_It, NE2, and kernals12 are widely acknowledged as having a certain status on this forum and he simply wants to one-up them.
I thought HighwayStar has a status here since the I-70 Baltimore thing.

Well, I don't know if I would call that a "status" so much as an "unpopular opinion" turned infamous trademark. But at least I am known for something.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

Max Rockatansky

#109
Quote from: sprjus4 on February 01, 2022, 02:54:25 PM
He's a user that seems to have the mindset that he's right 100% of the time and cannot be debated, mind changed, etc.

You can't convince him to change his stances no matter how much logic, facts, etc. you provide. Just move on.

Which sounds like you're describing:

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 01, 2022, 02:31:06 PM
I think HighwayStar is simply jealous of how Crash_It, NE2, and kernals12 are widely acknowledged as having a certain status on this forum and he simply wants to one-up them.

Crash should be a cautionary tale for how NOT to conduct oneself in the real world or road world.  I don't think anyone in recent memory has ever come close to that guy's level of infamy or spawned as many memes.  Crash has set an incredibly high bar that I don't think anyone is going to live up to for a really long time. 

With Kernals I think the issue there is a lack of real world perspective and experience.  While I've had like interactions with NE2 on non-road things I've him found it to be incredibly reasonable/helpful in the arena of historic highway/road research.

HighwayStar

Quote from: sprjus4 on February 01, 2022, 02:54:25 PM
He's a user that seems to have the mindset that he's right 100% of the time and cannot be debated, mind changed, etc.

You can't convince him to change his stances no matter how much logic, facts, etc. you provide. Just move on.

I would say that is an unfair characterization.
My mind can and has been changed, but I require a high burden of proof. Also, just because you fail to change my mind does not mean that other readers don't benefit from hearing two sides of something.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

jakeroot

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

It's illegal in Washington, must use right lane at all times unless passing. RCW 46.61.100.

Rothman

Quote from: jakeroot on February 01, 2022, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

It's illegal in Washington, must use right lane at all times unless passing. RCW 46.61.100.
That doesn't meet his "high burden of proof."
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

HighwayStar

Quote from: Rothman on February 01, 2022, 06:46:43 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on February 01, 2022, 05:13:00 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

It's illegal in Washington, must use right lane at all times unless passing. RCW 46.61.100.
That doesn't meet his "high burden of proof."

Yes, because the US enforcement of that is extremely lax, particularly for someone that is not going below the speed limit. Sure, its on the books, as are an unfathomable bundle of laws against blasphemy, swearing at sporting events, using fake names at hotels, the length of bingo games, dance hall proximity to churches, using x-rays to sell shoes, R rated movies in drive in theaters, etc.
Additionally, the wording of those laws leaves a great deal to interpretation, which is likely part of why enforcement is sporadic. At its most basic level, when driving in that kind of traffic you are typically perpetually overtaking other vehicles, which is an exception. To quote your Washington Statute

(2) Upon all roadways having two or more lanes for traffic moving in the same direction, all vehicles shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow, (c) when moving left to allow traffic to merge, or (d) when preparing for a left turn at an intersection, exit, or into a private road or driveway when such left turn is legally permitted. On any such roadway, a vehicle or combination over ten thousand pounds shall be driven only in the right-hand lane except under the conditions enumerated in (a) through (d) of this subsection.

So in addition to the above exception for passing, there is an explicit exception for going faster than the speed of the traffic flow.
Later in the same statute we have this line

(4) It is a traffic infraction to drive continuously in the left lane of a multilane roadway when it impedes the flow of other traffic.

Which I have to wonder if this was part of the original statute or added at a latter time. It seems to possibly contradict the above, but on the other hand the interpretation of "impedes" is relevant. If you are doing 75 in a 70 zone are you "impeding" the traffic behind you? Legally, they can't go any faster, so are they being "impeded"?

The conclusion of all this is that while I am quite aware such statutes exist, their interpretation, application, and enforcement is another matter, particularly in the case of congested urban freeways where the entire road is basically one continuous flow of traffic in all lanes.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

TheHighwayMan3561

The worst is being stuck in a traffic jam on I-70 in Baltimore.
self-certified as the dumbest person on this board for 5 years running

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 01, 2022, 07:14:50 PM
The worst is being stuck in a traffic jam on I-70 in Baltimore.

Nah, I think the worst is being stuck in the non-flat parts of Illinois.
Indiana: counties 100%, highways 100%
Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
Michigan: counties 100%, highways 56%
Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: cabiness42 on February 01, 2022, 07:32:04 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on February 01, 2022, 07:14:50 PM
The worst is being stuck in a traffic jam on I-70 in Baltimore.

Nah, I think the worst is being stuck in the non-flat parts of Illinois.

True, we all know Illinois doesn't have any flat parts.  All those questionable out of state drivers are always causing issues. 

kurumi

I'll go with tar kettle trailer, ahead and upwind of you, while driving a convertible.

Or, riding a bike, and the thing is just fast enough to keep ahead of you in moderate traffic.
My first SF/horror short story collection is available: "Young Man, Open Your Winter Eye"

CtrlAltDel

Quote from: Rothman on February 01, 2022, 06:46:43 PM
That doesn't meet his "high burden of proof."

What do you know, you were right.
I-290   I-294   I-55   (I-74)   (I-72)   I-40   I-30   US-59   US-190   TX-30   TX-6

jakeroot

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 07:03:09 PM
So in addition to the above exception for passing, there is an explicit exception for going faster than the speed of the traffic flow.

Correct, the traffic flow of the right lane that you should be overtaking if you are in the left lane. If there are no cars to your right and/or no cars behind you, I don't see how 2b could apply as there is no traffic flow against which you can compare your own speed. Thus, you would need to use the right lane unless one of the other exceptions applied.

With that in mind, your original assertion that...

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

...is incorrect in Washington. As I basically stated before. You have to be passing traffic on your right whilst simultaneously not holding up traffic behind you (either/both would constitute a violation of 2b). Passing at 1 over the limit with 20 cars behind you would not be legal.

HighwayStar

Quote from: jakeroot on February 01, 2022, 07:50:05 PM
Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 07:03:09 PM
So in addition to the above exception for passing, there is an explicit exception for going faster than the speed of the traffic flow.

Correct, the traffic flow of the right lane that you should be overtaking if you are in the left lane. If there are no cars to your right and/or no cars behind you, I don't see how 2b could apply as there is no traffic flow against which you can compare your own speed. Thus, you would need to use the right lane unless one of the other exceptions applied.

With that in mind, your original assertion that...

Quote from: HighwayStar on February 01, 2022, 11:42:18 AM
If you are already going faster than the speed limit there is nothing wrong with being in the left lane.

...is incorrect in Washington. As I basically stated before. You have to be passing traffic on your right whilst simultaneously not holding up traffic behind you (either/both would constitute a violation of 2b). Passing at 1 over the limit with 20 cars behind you would not be legal.


If there are no cars to your right and/or no cars behind you, I don't see how 2b could apply as there is no traffic flow against which you can compare your own speed. Thus, you would need to use the right lane unless one of the other exceptions applied.

This is not the context of the original issue. Clearly when there is nothing in the right lane this issue is moot.

...is incorrect in Washington. As I basically stated before. You have to be passing traffic on your right whilst simultaneously not holding up traffic behind you (either/both would constitute a violation of 2b).

This reading is not consistent with the statute. To quote the statute again

except (a) when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction, (b) when traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow

The correct reading of that is that you do not have to be in the right lane when you are passing or you are traveling at a speed greater than the traffic flow. Thus your "whilst simultaneously" an AND condition where the actual condition specified is an OR condition.

Passing at 1 over the limit with 20 cars behind you would not be legal.
1 is intentionally a razor thin margin, but if we substitute passing at 5 instead I see nothing in the statute that requires you to move right if you are passing vehicles simply because whoever is behind you wants to go faster but is not legally entitled to do so anyway.
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

jakeroot

^^^
What I wrote is not necessarily my interpretation of the law, but how I've seen it enforced. Generally speaking, you can do whatever you want but you'll get stopped if there's a line of cars behind you, no one in front of you, and there isn't simple congestion preventing the use of the right lane (one car nine miles ahead on the right wouldn't necessarily permit you to use the left lane up to the point where you pass them).

Scott5114

Remember, this is the same guy that says he has a barbed wire fence around his property because he doesn't like people walking by on the sidewalk.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 01, 2022, 09:03:58 PM
Remember, this is the same guy that says he has a barbed wire fence around his property because he doesn't like people walking by on the sidewalk.

I'm sure I'm wasting my breath :-D

hotdogPi

Quote from: Scott5114 on February 01, 2022, 09:03:58 PM
Remember, this is the same guy that says he has a barbed wire fence around his property because he doesn't like people walking by on the sidewalk.

Raise the sidewalks by 15 feet. Problem solved.
Clinched

Traveled, plus
US 1A, 13, 44, 50, 302
MA 22, 35, 40, 107, 109, 126, 141, 159
ME 22, 25, 26, 77, 100
NH 27, 111A(E); CA 133; NY 366; GA 42, 140; FL A1A, 7; CT 32; VT 2A, 5A; PA 3, 51, 60, QC 162, 165, 263; 🇬🇧A100, A3211, A3213, A3215, A4222; 🇫🇷95 D316

Lowest untraveled: 36



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