The Modern Day Confusion Of Flashing RYG Signals...

[thenetwork]

When I was growing up, if you were driving down any given road, you would occasionally see an intersection or signalized driveway or access road to a business with flashing amber traffic lights on the main highway, while the cross-street/driveway/access road would have a flashing red signal.

At night, or anytime on a weekend or holiday, the flashing yellow meant the signal was inactive due to the conditions at that time.  Even back in the day, a flashing yellow signal during the daytime hours meant "Proceed With Caution -- Only stop if you encounter a flashing red light.

Here is where the confusion lies....

It seems like nowadays -- especially in the Western Rockies -- if you approach a flashing yellow (tri-color) traffic signal during they daytime hours for whatever reason (including malfunctions), you are supposed to treat it as a four way stop.

Or at least what some drivers treat the flashing light on the mainline...

I can see a four-way stop if the signalized intersection:

1) Is completely dark and the lights are not working at all, or
2) The intersection is in a full flashing red mode.

Does this happen in your neck of the woods at all?  Is this happening more as the FYA continues to become a commonplace thing?

I'm starting to feel guilty now even if I *cautiously* blow through a flashing yellow intersection if I am on the mainline instead of treating it as a four-way stop.

[Scott5114]

No. Flashing yellow still means proceed with caution. I've never seen anyone stop at a flashing yellow light unless they were performing a turn and waiting for oncoming traffic to clear.

[jeffandnicole]

I have seen it, and during a power outage as you mentioned.  I went thru the yellow light and someone honked at me for doing so, thinking it was their turn to go.

I think this is due to the fact that it's rare to see a flashing yellow at a standard traffic light, because technology and equipment have gotten a lot better.

[StogieGuy7]

I have seen it, and during a power outage as you mentioned.  I went thru the yellow light and someone honked at me for doing so, thinking it was their turn to go.

I think this is due to the fact that it's rare to see a flashing yellow at a standard traffic light, because technology and equipment have gotten a lot better.

The bigger issue is inadequate driver training, inattention to driving, and the gradual growth of idiocy among the DNA of our population. The rules never changed, flashing red still means stop, flashing yellow still means proceed with caution. Then again, the rules governing a four way stop have never changed yet you should stake one out for a while to observe the abject stupidity on display at any such intersection - on any day.  The flashing yellow isn't the issue; dumbassery is.

[Henry]

I don't mind the FYA too much, but when all signals flash at the same time, that's when the intersection becomes a total clusterfuck. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if more accidents occur at intersections with malfunctioning signals than those with working ones, as trying to avoid a crash while facing a flashing red (or yellow, for that matter) can be such a huge pain in the ass, based on my experiences with them.

[webny99]

No. Flashing yellow still means proceed with caution. I've never seen anyone stop at a flashing yellow light unless they were performing a turn and waiting for oncoming traffic to clear.

This isn't quite the same thing, but I quite often see drivers stopped for a flashing yellow arrow when it's clear to turn left but the signal for through traffic is still red. FYA's are still somewhat of a novelty here but there are new ones popping up every year, so this will probably get better with time.

[US 89]

Does this happen in your neck of the woods at all?  Is this happening more as the FYA continues to become a commonplace thing?

This must be a highly specific Grand Junction thing, because I've never seen it in all my travels across the west.

[JoePCool14]

I never even see a flashing yellow ball on any signals around here. I can only name a few off the top of my head that I've seen in my entire life. I'm not sure why FYA adoption would result in people stopping at a flashing yellow though. Wouldn't that theoretically reinforce the meaning of a flashing yellow anything?

[hotdogPi]

While a flashing yellow arrow is consistent with a regular flashing yellow (if you're at a regular flashing yellow and you're trying to turn, you have to yield to cross traffic), the connection is not obvious to most drivers, as turning on a flashing yellow and going straight on a flashing yellow have different priority rules (but both equivalent to if there was nothing there at all).  This is why a flashing yellow up arrow should not exist (fortunately there are none yet) – it would mean you have priority!

I never even see a flashing yellow ball on any signals around here.

Even if permanent flashers don't exist in your area, you should be seeing them occasionally whenever a signal malfunctions, often due to a power outage, as long as one road is more major than the other.

[Big John]

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

[JoePCool14]

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

Correct. A few weeks back, a minor signal on Milwaukee Ave, IL-21, for an office park was out. It was in all-red flashing mode, which meant all traffic on the state route had to stop.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it's how things work in Illinois.

[thenetwork]

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

Correct. A few weeks back, a minor signal on Milwaukee Ave, IL-21, for an office park was out. It was in all-red flashing mode, which meant all traffic on the state route had to stop.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it's how things work in Illinois.

Modern signal controllers are "smart" enough to default to all-flashing reds during malfunctions, or even outages if they have a backup power source. 

Older signal boxes that are still out in the field that don't run off a computer module are less likely to be able to default into all-red mode due to limited internal workings.

[MikieTimT]

Towson Ave. in Ft. Smith, AR used to default to the flashing yellow on Towson and flashing red on the side streets at night until about 6 AM when they would turn back on to their normal operation.  I remember riding to Irish Maid Donuts with my Dad at 5AM to catch a box of freshly made donuts, and never having to stop on US-71B the whole time.  I wish every city had the same operation now in fact as it seems like there's inevitably a few lights that catch you on their timer even if there is no cross traffic in the wee hours.

I can't help but think that many people never knew such an operation existed in the past and assume that everything is to be treated like a 4-way stop.  I guess now that I think about it, the only way that someone would know that the mainline was getting a flashing yellow instead of red like them would be for them to be able to see the glare off the light hoods on the mainline lights.  No problem at all at night, but on a bright day under certain conditions, might not be easy.

[jakeroot]

Japan has a substantial number of flashing yellow signals that activate overnight. This is helpful as Japan uses fixed-time lights almost universally, which are barely necessary during the day, and certainly not at all overnight.

One direction will flash red, and the other yellow. I do not recall any confusion, but then the Japanese are very good drivers.

[US 89]

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

Correct. A few weeks back, a minor signal on Milwaukee Ave, IL-21, for an office park was out. It was in all-red flashing mode, which meant all traffic on the state route had to stop.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it's how things work in Illinois.

It's how they should work everywhere. If one of the roads is really busy and the other isn't, you may never get a chance to turn if you're on the side street.

I always think back to this intersection. US 89 is obviously the bigger road, but Eagle Ridge funnels a lot of residential traffic into 89 and so can get rather busy during rush hour. Once after a power failure or whatever, the light was flashing yellow for 89 and red for Eagle Ridge. I was on Eagle Ridge and it probably took at least 15 minutes to get through the line and make the left turn onto 89.

The next time I saw that light in emergency flash, it flashed red for everyone. I don't think I've ever seen flashing yellow as part of an emergency flash mode since. I've seen it in night flash, but traffic obviously isn't ever an issue at those times.

[jeffandnicole]

Even if permanent flashers don't exist in your area, you should be seeing them occasionally whenever a signal malfunctions, often due to a power outage, as long as one road is more major than the other.

With the modern controllers, many traffic lights also have battery backups.  As long as the power outage is under 6 - 8 hours long, the battery should keep the signal functioning during many outages.  This reduces the chances motorists will encounter a flashing signal due to an outage.

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

Correct. A few weeks back, a minor signal on Milwaukee Ave, IL-21, for an office park was out. It was in all-red flashing mode, which meant all traffic on the state route had to stop.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it's how things work in Illinois.

It's how they should work everywhere. If one of the roads is really busy and the other isn't, you may never get a chance to turn if you're on the side street.

I always think back to this intersection. US 89 is obviously the bigger road, but Eagle Ridge funnels a lot of residential traffic into 89 and so can get rather busy during rush hour. Once after a power failure or whatever, the light was flashing yellow for 89 and red for Eagle Ridge. I was on Eagle Ridge and it probably took at least 15 minutes to get through the line and make the left turn onto 89.

The next time I saw that light in emergency flash, it flashed red for everyone. I don't think I've ever seen flashing yellow as part of an emergency flash mode since. I've seen it in night flash, but traffic obviously isn't ever an issue at those times.

What happens fairly often is the police or DOT will set up flares and cones, and prohibit cross traffic for the minor street.  They'll be forced to turn right, then make a u-turn at the next intersection or turning lane.  While it may cause a slight delay at the next intersection, overall this works so much better at the intersection with the issue.

[roadman65]

I've seen that after Charley came 2004. Creating temporary RIRO to avoid stopping everyone.

[JoePCool14]

^^I believe Illinois uses all red in flash mode.

Correct. A few weeks back, a minor signal on Milwaukee Ave, IL-21, for an office park was out. It was in all-red flashing mode, which meant all traffic on the state route had to stop.

I wish this wasn't the case, but it's how things work in Illinois.

It's how they should work everywhere. If one of the roads is really busy and the other isn't, you may never get a chance to turn if you're on the side street.

I always think back to this intersection. US 89 is obviously the bigger road, but Eagle Ridge funnels a lot of residential traffic into 89 and so can get rather busy during rush hour. Once after a power failure or whatever, the light was flashing yellow for 89 and red for Eagle Ridge. I was on Eagle Ridge and it probably took at least 15 minutes to get through the line and make the left turn onto 89.

The next time I saw that light in emergency flash, it flashed red for everyone. I don't think I've ever seen flashing yellow as part of an emergency flash mode since. I've seen it in night flash, but traffic obviously isn't ever an issue at those times.

Fair point. When I came across that light, it was after rush hour and nobody was using that side street into the office park. Frankly, I don't think I ever see that light change even earlier during the day.

[jay8g]

I suspect that part of the confusion may be because there's no way for someone facing a flashing red to know whether it's an all-way stop or a two-way stop, at least without looking at the signals for the other direction (which may or may not be possible depending on how the intersection is designed). Since flashing signals these days are almost always all-way stops, when someone encounters a flashing red signal, it isn't entirely surprising they would expect the other direction to also have flashing red, not the less-common flashing yellow.

[GaryV]

Since flashing signals these days are almost always all-way stops,

That depends on where you are. The signals within a few miles of my house that switch to flashing mode at night are all Y for the main street, R for the cross street.

[1995hoo]

I think part of the issue when a light flashes yellow is that people are often told to treat "malfunctioning" traffic lights as four-way stops, so you get particularly conscientious or cautious drivers who assume the flashing yellow is malfunctioning. With the flashing yellow arrow, I think it's more a case of people not knowing what message that light conveys.