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Minnesota Notes

Started by Mdcastle, April 18, 2012, 07:54:36 PM

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bschultzy

Quote from: froggie on August 30, 2023, 09:29:11 AM
4-laning there was about 30 years before the advent of the NHS system (which was in 1995).

I highly doubt an overpass or flyover was considered here.  First, the only county in Minnesota that ever bothered to design (let alone build) county-route freeways was Hennepin.  Second, this area was nothing but fields and trees until well into the 1970s.

Speculating here, but I feel there are two possible reasons for the wider median:  either a higher design speed on the westbound lanes (which would require a more gradual curve than existed originally), or something to do with drainage, as the area occupied by the strip mall, liquor store, and Giuseppe's was a wetland at the time of 4-lane construction.

It's also worth noting that a ca. 1964 (around or shortly before time of construction) thoroughfare plan for the Twin Cities did not envision CSAH 42 as a freeway or even an expressway.

The drainage theory makes sense to me. I used to work a 1/2 mile west of there on 42, and the median does have some depth to it, and I believe the westbound lanes are elevated a couple feet higher than eastbound.


jakeroot

#1801
Drainage was also my sneaking suspicion. The only reason I didn't just assume that and move on was because I don't recall special design treatments for water control being too common of an occurrence. Drainage design goes hand-in-hand with road engineering, of course, but normally roads are kept free of bulb-outs, unusual geometry, etc. because the drainage is designed around the ideal roadway geometry. I guess this is just one of those cases where they had to compromise slightly.

edit: I thought about the design speed as well. I dismissed this though because it seemed like the road quickly lost any sense of "high speed design" immediately to the east (of County Road 11), where it loses its median completely. Seemed odd to me they'd go to such great lengths to have a high speed curve, just to have the road narrow down on one end. But then, for all I know they always planned to have the divided highway continue east of County Road 11...funny, that never did happen.

Thanks for the replies!

TheHighwayMan3561

#1802
Prep work for a three-year project to replace or rehabilitate several bridges on I-00 in Austin began Tuesday, partly funded from an INFRA grant. The 4th St NW interchange is concurrently planned to be replaced with a SPUI.

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d6/projects/i90-austin-bridge-replacements/index.html

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TheHighwayMan3561

MnDOT posted on Facebook that the TH 301 project outside St. Cloud will end Friday, which also means the end of 301 as it will be turned over to the city of St. Cloud.

https://www.dot.state.mn.us/d3/stc/h301/
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TheHighwayMan3561

Edina finally completed their triple roundabout project on Eden Avenue. The "double roundabout" directly on the east side of TH 100 next to the former Perkins site might be the first in Minnesota that I can think of where two are directly connected with each other like a pair of glasses.
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Mdcastle

The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.

andarcondadont

Quote from: Mdcastle on October 05, 2023, 06:31:36 PM
The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.
Now it's just a matter of waiting for Ramsey County to take over their portion of Minnesota 96. Also Minnesota 120 since we're talking about that area.

Computer Science and GIS student at the University of Minnesota.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: andarcondadont on October 05, 2023, 10:50:28 PM
Quote from: Mdcastle on October 05, 2023, 06:31:36 PM
The Minnesota 96 signs have now been replaced with Washington County 96 signs.
Now it's just a matter of waiting for Ramsey County to take over their portion of Minnesota 96. Also Minnesota 120 since we're talking about that area.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Ramsey portion of 96 is currently on the turnback list (neither is the remaining part of 244 where 96 now ends).
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TheHighwayMan3561

The TH 65 3rd Ave Bridge in Minneapolis is finally reopen. Here's a thread about some of the bridge's history.

https://twitter.com/vincempls/status/1718677778696941664

Of course, now that this is reopen, the Stone Arch is closing in stages for its own rehab.
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Papa Emeritus

Today's STrib has an article about how opposition in Brooklyn Center is building about plans to convert 252 to a freeway.

https://www.startribune.com/brooklyn-center-residents-officials-unhappy-with-mndots-plans-for-hwy-252/600317277/

Personally, I think 252 in Brooklyn Center is like 7 between Texas and 169 in St Louis Park: it's a divided road with stoplights, but people treat it as though it is a freeway. The result is that people drive unusually aggressively, which results in a high number of accidents. It would be nice if MnDoT was able to overcome local objections, and make 252 a freeway, because it would be much safer that way.

n0ax

It's ridiculous MnDOT is being forced to undetake an EIS which will just come to the same conclusion the EAW did for 252, except at a significantly higher cost (consultants). NEPA needs to be overhauled to eliminate the FHWA's role and significantly streamline projects so they can't be held up in a bureaucratic quagmire like the 252 project has been (on a state level eliminating municipal consent would also be a good start)

Rothman



Quote from: n0ax on November 05, 2023, 10:13:43 PM
NEPA needs to be overhauled to eliminate the FHWA's role and significantly streamline projects so they can't be held up in a bureaucratic quagmire like the 252 project has been (on a state level eliminating municipal consent would also be a good start)

Wut.  Eliminate FHWA's role...that doesn't make any sense.  Eliminating municipal consent sounds outright tyrannical.

Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

The Ghostbuster

If MN 252 were converted into a freeway, which intersections would get interchanges, and which intersections would get only grade-separations?

froggie

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 07, 2023, 03:29:46 PM
If MN 252 were converted into a freeway, which intersections would get interchanges, and which intersections would get only grade-separations?

Look upthread.  It's been mentioned and discussed before.

n0ax

Drove the new freeway in Elk River today, most of the interchanges/bridges are complete except Main Street. I couldn't help but notice the narrow shoulders throughout the project. MnDOT seems to be constructing far more substandard projects as of the 2015 era onwards (Elk River/169 is a stark contrast to 101 which has certain bridges designed to obviously accommodate a third lane with 12 foot inner and outer shoulders). It seems that value engineering may be winning over adherence to standards?

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: n0ax on November 09, 2023, 03:43:26 PM
Drove the new freeway in Elk River today, most of the interchanges/bridges are complete except Main Street. I couldn't help but notice the narrow shoulders throughout the project. MnDOT seems to be constructing far more substandard projects as of the 2015 era onwards (Elk River/169 is a stark contrast to 101 which has certain bridges designed to obviously accommodate a third lane with 12 foot inner and outer shoulders). It seems that value engineering may be winning over adherence to standards?

Skrimping on shoulders and lane widths is indeed part of the modern cost savings measure. They talked about that when they finished the final piece of the TH 60 widening in southern MN having 11-foot left lanes and minimal shoulder.
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n0ax

I do recall the TH 60 expansion heavily utilizing value engineering, but it seemed logical for a rural expressway that saw 5-7K AADT at most. It seems fundamentally unsafe to design an urban freeway that sees 45K AADT with 8 foot outer shoulders and 4 foot inner shoulders (or none at all throughout a significant chunk of the project where there are auxiliary lanes) especially when right of way is not constrained.

texaskdog

252 should have begun as a freeway.  MN does this all the time.

The Ghostbuster

I know the US 169 and MN 100 corridors once had at-grade intersections that were converted into grade-separations and interchanges over time. I believe that also occurred on other non-Interstate freeways in the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area.

bschultzy

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on November 11, 2023, 08:51:38 PM
I know the US 169 and MN 100 corridors once had at-grade intersections that were converted into grade-separations and interchanges over time. I believe that also occurred on other non-Interstate freeways in the Twin Cities Metropolitan Area.

Correct. Virtually every other freeway/highway with interchanges has been converted in piecemeal fashion, and there are plenty of notable gaps with signals, e.g. MN 7 at Texas Ave and Blake Rd; MN 36 at Century Ave; and US 10/61 at Burns Ave, Warner Rd, and Lower Afton Rd.

TheHighwayMan3561

Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
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andarcondadont

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 17, 2023, 03:35:50 PM
Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
I wonder how many weeks will go by before MnDOT corrects that, if at all.

Computer Science and GIS student at the University of Minnesota.

TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: andarcondadont on November 19, 2023, 08:54:44 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on November 17, 2023, 03:35:50 PM
Ugh. I drove up through the US 169 work zone where they just finished with the Rockford Rd interchange, and the new advance sign for Bass Lake Road at 49th Ave was stylized "LaKe".
I wonder how many weeks will go by before MnDOT corrects that, if at all.

To their credit they did patch the lower-case "North" that appeared on the temporary WB Crosstown exit sign to TH 100 northbound.
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TheHighwayMan3561

The last piece of US 14 bypassing Courtland is now open, and the final link in the New Ulm-Rochester four-laning is complete.

https://twitter.com/GovTimWalz/status/1727020868679909631
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flan

Apparently MN 44 has a business loop through Caledonia? I thought the only state highway business loops were in Brainerd and Willmar.




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