This is pretty interesting. In some of the cities, they usually like to install American traffic lights (they prefer the Californian traffic lights). Here are a few photos:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farleneplacido.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F08%2Fimg_1495.jpg&hash=d4d3ab8879e5c34425dec4a69f7dc32a2adf0491)
A Californian styled light in Manila. It also has a countdown timer to green along with it.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsowhatsnews.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F02%2Fbig-motorstop.jpg&hash=edba87af0410ed1f6b51966b5f623573104afdb6)
Interesting light in Manila.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2303%2F2281308982_d3353e59de_b.jpg&hash=63aefb875cffffa9fda40ef6e3ffc211988a5f4f)
Horizontal light.
Davao City:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lja78mTJoA1qzc7in.jpg&hash=22462fa1706f17f96f9d16873a89c1210aee4d82)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freceivewithmeekness.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Ftraffic-davao.jpg&hash=bfb55e25dd45170a0950257d1ae788fe668bcdc0)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fd%2Fd7%2FDavao_Traffic_Light.jpg&hash=e6c99260a0c8b52148429a011423c2da386e3e2d)
Fort Bonifacio:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.weddingsatwork.com%2Fwawnewsblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2Ftraffic-light-heart.jpg&hash=21f4c6758ea5ad440c9845a38a802fa3330f194e)
That's pretty much all I have at this moment (all of the images were found via Google Images). There's also one in Urdaneta City but I couldn't find any clear photos of it.
Also, if there is any American styled traffic lights in the Philippines I have missed, please feel free to post photos of it here.
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farleneplacido.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F08%2Fimg_1495.jpg&hash=d4d3ab8879e5c34425dec4a69f7dc32a2adf0491)
Love, Bang, and Jesus in one photo.
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2303%2F2281308982_d3353e59de_b.jpg&hash=63aefb875cffffa9fda40ef6e3ffc211988a5f4f)
The font on the placard behind the
mast arm lights intrigue me, even if it's a little off. Is it some sort of standard?
Edit: No mast arm in that photo. Derp.
Quote from: formulanone on December 09, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farleneplacido.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F08%2Fimg_1495.jpg&hash=d4d3ab8879e5c34425dec4a69f7dc32a2adf0491)
Love, Bang, and Jesus in one photo.
The slogan literally says "Do I still need to memorize that?" referring to the name and/or frequency of the radio station.
Quote from: formulanone on December 09, 2013, 08:40:33 PM
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2303%2F2281308982_d3353e59de_b.jpg&hash=63aefb875cffffa9fda40ef6e3ffc211988a5f4f)
The font on the placard behind the mast arm intrigues me, even if it's a little off. Is it some sort of standard?
No it isn't, they just painted it on. I think it should just say
VERTICAL CLEARANCE 4.27 m
Also, holy crap, that's a lot of cables.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.panoramio.com%2Fphotos%2Flarge%2F53167673.jpg&hash=0170cf65b979ef06c6eb6bebc09e0595eb496ffa)
EDIT:Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freceivewithmeekness.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Ftraffic-davao.jpg&hash=bfb55e25dd45170a0950257d1ae788fe668bcdc0)
Since when does the Philippines use 911? I've only ever known of 117.
Ah, okay.
I've only ever (personally) seen the vanilla traffic light, and it was almost always yellow. Never seen these variations with two lights, or five lights, or even heart-shaped lights. :P
I've been through the Fort at least twice and never seen those. That means they were installed after 2010 and I have yet to take pictures of them.
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Freceivewithmeekness.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F02%2Ftraffic-davao.jpg&hash=bfb55e25dd45170a0950257d1ae788fe668bcdc0)
Screw the traffic lights, since when do they use MUTCD standard "Left Turn Yield on Green" signs?!?!?! :wow:
What is with the heart-shaped red lens on the bottom photo?
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 09, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Screw the traffic lights, since when do they use MUTCD standard "Left Turn Yield on Green" signs?!?!?! :wow:
Well, it's American, and it's the Philippines, so...
Quote from: sammi on December 09, 2013, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 09, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Screw the traffic lights, since when do they use MUTCD standard "Left Turn Yield on Green" signs?!?!?! :wow:
Well, it's American, and it's the Philippines, so...
No, please, explain further. And the heart-shaped light thing too.
Quote from: Steve on December 09, 2013, 11:58:02 PM
Quote from: sammi on December 09, 2013, 10:33:45 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on December 09, 2013, 10:02:10 PM
Screw the traffic lights, since when do they use MUTCD standard "Left Turn Yield on Green" signs?!?!?! :wow:
Well, it's American, and it's the Philippines, so...
No, please, explain further. And the heart-shaped light thing too.
Turns out the heart-shaped light was something the Fort did for Valentine's Day 2012 (http://ofdotsnthings.blogspot.ca/2012/02/stop-in-name-of-love.html). They also did Christmas-themed traffic lights (http://ofdotsnthings.blogspot.ca/2012/12/a-different-kind-of-christmas-lights.html) in December 2012. But I haven't seen anything of their regular shape.
Regarding the general use of MUTCD signs, it's been like that for as far as I remember. By law, signage should follow the Vienna Convention, but as I see it Philippine signage is just a mélange of whatever the DPWH* thinks looks good, which is a combination of American, European and Australian.
* DPWH = Dept. of Public Works and Highways, basically the equivalent of a state DOT but at the national level.
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 12:13:15 AM
Regarding the general use of MUTCD signs, it's been like that for as far as I remember. By law, signage should follow the Vienna Convention, but as I see it Philippine signage is just a mélange of whatever the DPWH* thinks looks good, which is a combination of American, European and Australian.
* DPWH = Dept. of Public Works and Highways, basically the equivalent of a state DOT but at the national level.
So what's the possibility of me running into a MUTCD SPEED LIMIT sign, and then running into the EU one? Bonus points if they are right after one another.
Quote from: Zeffy on December 10, 2013, 12:23:49 AM
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 12:13:15 AM
Regarding the general use of MUTCD signs, it's been like that for as far as I remember. By law, signage should follow the Vienna Convention, but as I see it Philippine signage is just a mélange of whatever the DPWH* thinks looks good, which is a combination of American, European and Australian.
* DPWH = Dept. of Public Works and Highways, basically the equivalent of a state DOT but at the national level.
So what's the possibility of me running into a MUTCD SPEED LIMIT sign, and then running into the EU one? Bonus points if they are right after one another.
Well, there's this, which I've actually never seen before, at least not with the minimum part.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_SYbjFeq2AC0%2FTHxbfhTfPGI%2FAAAAAAAAA_k%2FQ_s5CemKGPY%2Fs1600%2FGab%2B3.jpg&hash=9ccc998485b6a9a416b9002ce7227d8a8d06bd3d)
But it's not likely that you'll have the two right after one another. Probably the closest I can think of is two intersecting expressways built by different contractors who follow different signage standards. No bonus points for me. :-/
It's specified in the MUTCD - but yeah, I've never actually seen it used out on the field before - same with the TRUCKS XX signs. Here's the page on those signs:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmutcd.fhwa.dot.gov%2Fhtm%2F2009r1r2%2Fimages%2Ffig2b_03.gif&hash=899f6a0bf14573d003720d29c36919debccc2bef)
http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009r1r2/part2/fig2b_03_longdesc.htm
Also the sign you posted is in Arialveticavertesk. Oh, the horrors... :ded:
Quote from: Zeffy on December 10, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
Also the sign you posted is in Arialveticavertesk. Oh, the horrors... :ded:
I know, I don't like it either. @_@
The sign shop that makes probably most of the signs in my part of the country definitely has the FHWA fonts, but for some reason doesn't use them as much as they should. Case in point: that sign. You'll probably find the better ones on the NLEX, where a lot of the old signs are in FHWA.
I once got into a shitstorm on another forum by having to point it out. The contractor kept arguing that the sign was in "Caltrans Series E Modified" (is this different?) and I had to make a graphic showing him that it was clearly Arial. I didn't get banned or anything, but they "fixed" it. :pan: (I'd post a link in the morning.)
Quote from: Zeffy on December 10, 2013, 12:43:52 AM
It's specified in the MUTCD - but yeah, I've never actually seen it used out on the field before - same with the TRUCKS XX signs. Here's the page on those signs:
Those signs with SPEED LIMIT/MINIMUM were standard on Michigan freeways during my childhood. You'll still often see the same style of sign today, but with TRUCKS as the speed on the bottom.
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 12:38:57 AM
Well, there's this, which I've actually never seen before, at least not with the minimum part.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_SYbjFeq2AC0%2FTHxbfhTfPGI%2FAAAAAAAAA_k%2FQ_s5CemKGPY%2Fs1600%2FGab%2B3.jpg&hash=9ccc998485b6a9a416b9002ce7227d8a8d06bd3d)
Those are very common on Florida's interstates; usually a minimum of 50 mph is posted with a max of 70, 45 with 65, and 40 with 55/60. I don't think I've ever seen a minimum speed limit sign lower than 40. Usually, there's no speed distinction for trucks, except for narrow construction zones.
I'll forgive the Arial because of the triple-digit thing.
Quote from: formulanone on December 10, 2013, 06:32:16 AM
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 12:38:57 AM
Well, there's this, which I've actually never seen before, at least not with the minimum part.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F4.bp.blogspot.com%2F_SYbjFeq2AC0%2FTHxbfhTfPGI%2FAAAAAAAAA_k%2FQ_s5CemKGPY%2Fs1600%2FGab%2B3.jpg&hash=9ccc998485b6a9a416b9002ce7227d8a8d06bd3d)
Those are very common on Florida's interstates; usually a minimum of 50 mph is posted with a max of 70, 45 with 65, and 40 with 55/60. I don't think I've ever seen a minimum speed limit sign lower than 40. Usually, there's no speed distinction for trucks, except for narrow construction zones.
I'll forgive the Arial because of the triple-digit thing.
It's not just Florida. Outside Cook County, these are used all over the place in Illinois, including the tollways within Cook County. They're also used in Iowa, Missouri, Ohio, and Indiana. To me, Wisconsin is odd for not having them.
I just changed the title a bit to reflect how the topic broadened quite a bit.
Well I said I would post a link in the morning, but it's now about 3 pm here. :pan: 1 exam down, 2 more to go. Yay me. ^^
Anyway, to whatever I was getting at. Here (http://imgur.com/a/C35VP) is a link to screenshots of the conversations that happened between me and the contractor (streetsmart). I've manipulated the images, to translate the Filipino bits into English, and to remove all instances of my username. Don't mind the scroll bar.
Anyone who's seen a computer knows when a font is Arial / Helvetica - it's used everywhere, so being able to detect it should be as easy as detecting say Comic Sans MS.
Here's a side by side recreation of the Tarlac City sign:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FABk7a9Yh.png&hash=a3010597cd459602d6863fd1a1f5b9cb8c1ec6e1)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag88%2FZeffyboy%2FSigns%2FPHsigns_comparison_zpsdfef2fe1.png&hash=3270a4c47cc5f19de2ec9eb21e51594d3750ed7c)
What's interesting is that the C in City seems to be distorted rather than the rest of the letters.
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 03:03:05 PM
I just changed the title a bit to reflect how the topic broadened quite a bit.
You just changed that one post, not the whole thread. To change the whole thread title, edit the first post.
Quote from: 1 on December 10, 2013, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 03:03:05 PM
I just changed the title a bit to reflect how the topic broadened quite a bit.
You just changed that one post, not the whole thread. To change the whole thread title, edit the first post.
That's something for Lytton to do.
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 04:32:12 PM
Quote from: 1 on December 10, 2013, 04:26:33 PM
Quote from: sammi on December 10, 2013, 03:03:05 PM
I just changed the title a bit to reflect how the topic broadened quite a bit.
You just changed that one post, not the whole thread. To change the whole thread title, edit the first post.
That's something for Lytton to do.
Or for an Admin to do which I've now done. ;)
Ah sorry. I wasn't here to change the title.
Thanks rickmastfan67.
Quote from: sammi on December 09, 2013, 08:51:19 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2303%2F2281308982_d3353e59de_b.jpg&hash=63aefb875cffffa9fda40ef6e3ffc211988a5f4f)
Horizontal light.
Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?
Quote from: realjd on December 10, 2013, 11:16:53 PM
Quote from: sammi on December 09, 2013, 08:51:19 PM
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.staticflickr.com%2F2303%2F2281308982_d3353e59de_b.jpg&hash=63aefb875cffffa9fda40ef6e3ffc211988a5f4f)
Horizontal light.
Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?
That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.
Quote
Quote from: Steve on December 10, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?
That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.
RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right
I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.
Quote from: realjd on December 11, 2013, 12:34:08 PM
RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right
I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.
Ah, the confusion between RHD (right-hand drive
vehicles) and RHT (right-hand
traffic). I might have made that same mistake talking to Jake (the new guy) in the hand-drawn thread. :pan: TL;DR RHD=LHT, LHD=RHT. The Philippines is LHD.
The relevant MUTCD page is here: Figure 4D-3 (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/HTM/2003r1/part4/fig4d-03_longdesc.htm). It says that red should be on the left, so this is in fact a backwards light. Having a horizontal traffic signal is unusual in itself, I think (having never seen one in my 13 years there), even more so like this. Then again, "typical" doesn't mean it
should be one of those.
Quote from: realjd on December 11, 2013, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 10, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?
That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.
RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right
I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.
I thought it was the reverse? Pretty sure that's how I've always seen LHD and RHD used.
Quote from: vdeane on December 11, 2013, 08:51:08 PM
Quote from: realjd on December 11, 2013, 12:34:08 PM
Quote from: Steve on December 10, 2013, 11:26:48 PM
Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?
That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.
RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right
I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.
I thought it was the reverse? Pretty sure that's how I've always seen LHD and RHD used.
Okay, let's clarify our use from this point forward.
"LHD/RHD
car" = a car with steering wheel on the left/right
"LHD/RHD
road, country, system" (etc.) = a roadway where people drive on the left/right
Rather than debate which one it should be, because we're clearly of two minds, just specify. So, for example, I was of the opinion that the red light is on the right for horizontal signals in LHD countries, or in countries with RHD cars.
Most countries drive on the right. Most former-British occupied countries except the U.S. drive on the left.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F32%2FCountries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg%2F800px-Countries_driving_on_the_left_or_right.svg.png&hash=69be4d3610e85047db7c942a731ee5f27c99d50e)
Interestingly, the U.S. Virgin Islands drives on the left, yet uses yellow lines for the centerline.
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmw2.google.com%2Fmw-panoramio%2Fphotos%2Fmedium%2F5995827.jpg&hash=63cc65ab0b3d12967b8aeda073cbad30be80bb8f)
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Flifemurmurs.files.wordpress.com%2F2010%2F06%2Fkeepleftsign.jpg&hash=bdc274186522e3984c208ac35c6768646f4103c3)
Quote from: Lytton on December 09, 2013, 08:25:46 PM
This is pretty interesting. In some of the cities, they usually like to install American traffic lights (they prefer the Californian traffic lights). Here are a few photos:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Farleneplacido.files.wordpress.com%2F2011%2F08%2Fimg_1495.jpg&hash=d4d3ab8879e5c34425dec4a69f7dc32a2adf0491)
I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection. However, the countdown timers that let drivers know how much time is left before the light changes to yellow did have a significant impact on reducing red light runners.
For anyone interested, here is the link to the study:
http://www.easts.info/on-line/proceedings_05/1301.pdf
Quote from: Steve on December 11, 2013, 09:03:48 PMOkay, let's clarify our use from this point forward.
"LHD/RHD car" = a car with steering wheel on the left/right
"LHD/RHD road, country, system" (etc.) = a roadway where people drive on the left/right
Rather than debate which one it should be, because we're clearly of two minds, just specify. So, for example, I was of the opinion that the red light is on the right for horizontal signals in LHD countries, or in countries with RHD cars.
It actually makes more sense to discourage "LHD country," "RHD country," etc. as incorrect usage, and instead to encourage the use of phrases such as "left-driving" or "left-hand traffic" to refer to countries where traffic circulates on the left. Third-party websites that track handedness of traffic largely already phrase the distinction in these terms; Wikipedia uses the
left-hand traffic phrase, abbreviated
LHT, to refer to left-driving countries. The mnemonic is easy: noun "drive" refers to the position of the steering wheel, while participle form "driving" refers to the side of the road vehicles drive on.
BTW, it is not always true that left-driving countries have RHD vehicles. Sweden had LHD cars when it was still a left-driving country--this was one of the considerations that led to Dagen H--and the US Virgin Islands are a modern edge-case LHD/left-driving scenario.
Quote from: tradephoric on December 14, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.
The point is presumably to allow people to turn off their engines while sitting at a red.
Quote from: NE2 on December 14, 2013, 01:42:24 PM
Quote from: tradephoric on December 14, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.
The point is presumably to allow people to turn off their engines while sitting at a red.
I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?
Quote from: realjd on December 14, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?
Asians, apparently.
Quote from: NE2 on December 14, 2013, 08:40:19 PM
Quote from: realjd on December 14, 2013, 08:30:22 PM
I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?
Asians, apparently.
Starting your engine is very costly in terms of fuel use and wear/tear. I would think they're worse off than just letting it idle. I don't know what that means from an emissions standpoint, but I imagine it's all driven by perception instead of reality.
Quote from: Steve on December 15, 2013, 07:57:33 AMStarting your engine is very costly in terms of fuel use and wear/tear. I would think they're worse off than just letting it idle. I don't know what that means from an emissions standpoint, but I imagine it's all driven by perception instead of reality.
It is only
cold starts that are really costly in terms of fuel and wear: the former because the engine consumes more fuel in all phases of operation until it warms up, and the latter because essentially all of the oil has drained back to the pan so that there is no lubrication initially. Warm starts are much less costly since the engine is still warm and there is still oil on lubricated components.
The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.
As a general rule, I don't shut off my engine at stoplights, but I will do so at occupied railroad crossings when I cannot see the trailing end of the train. I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off. When I cold-start my car, I get it under road load ASAP and try to avoid shutting off the engine until it has warmed up in the course of normal operation, even if this means I have to postpone nearby stops on an errand chain until I am ready to return home.
As a general rule, the emissions system operates at peak efficiency when the engine is warm, at which point emissions generally track fuel consumption.
Other parts of the world do have extremely high cycle lengths compared to America, forcing drivers to wait a long time at red lights. According to an article i read, 98 out of the 324 signals in Bangalore, India have a cycle length of more than 180 seconds (in America, the upper cycle length limits of many cities is 120 seconds). It also mentioned in the article that the cops adjust the signal timings, and not a traffic engineer. :banghead:
With the long wait at red lights, maybe drivers do typically turn their engines off to prevent their vehicles from overheating (especially in arid regions). The countdown timers would be helpful in that scenario i imagine.
Quote from: tradephoric on December 14, 2013, 12:58:42 PM
I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection. However, the countdown timers that let drivers know how much time is left before the light changes to yellow did have a significant impact on reducing red light runners.
For anyone interested, here is the link to the study:
http://www.easts.info/on-line/proceedings_05/1301.pdf
That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago. As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.
Quote from: Brandon on December 15, 2013, 11:13:28 PM
That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago. As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.
There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is
still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 15, 2013, 10:38:31 AM
...I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off.
I've always heard that was a bad idea, as you run the risk of cracking your windows due to the sudden temperature change of the hot water hitting the cold glass.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 15, 2013, 10:38:31 AM
The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.
well shit, I just put about 70,000 miles on my car this last week, then.
Quote from: Zeffy on December 16, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)
That situation is somewhat common out here in California simply because a lot of signals do not use fixed timing but rather use on-demand timing. In the case of on-demand timing, there is a minimum and maximum green phase time but if the pavement detection loops detect that there is no further traffic traveling in the direction of the current green phase and there is cross traffic waiting, it will prematurely end the green phase and cycle the lights.
Quote from: DaBigE on December 16, 2013, 02:07:41 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on December 15, 2013, 10:38:31 AM...I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off.
I've always heard that was a bad idea, as you run the risk of cracking your windows due to the sudden temperature change of the hot water hitting the cold glass.
I have heard the same thing, but I did it last Monday without any problems. (It was the day after a freezing drizzle, when the high was barely 20° F, and I needed to drive up to Manhattan, Kansas.) The secret is to use water heated finger-hot, not boiling-hot, and to pour it on areas of glass that have relatively thick films of ice. You do have to be quick with the squeegee since even the warm water will re-freeze quite fast.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on December 16, 2013, 02:51:11 PMQuote from: J N Winkler on December 15, 2013, 10:38:31 AMThe figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.
well shit, I just put about 70,000 miles on my car this last week, then.
The engine is probably good for the equivalent of millions and millions of warm-cycle miles. These estimates as to the comparative wear penalties of starting an engine cold versus warm are actually not all that good for forecasting the expected service life of an engine even given a typical duty cycle that is fairly strictly adhered to. They do illustrate why engines that have frequent cold starts per mile of travel reach a given likelihood of having problems requiring repair and or signs of performance impairment (e.g. low compression) at much lower odometer mileages than ones which are routinely driven hours without interruption on the highway.
Quote from: J N Winkler on December 15, 2013, 10:38:31 AM
The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.
I would hazard a guess that the "10,000 miles of wear per cold start" is a little over the top. Figure on two cold starts per day, that's the equivalent of "over 7 million miles of wear" per year. No engine is designed for that lifecycle; perhaps a half million in real-world research and development throughout its expected lifespan (although there's a handful of documented cases of owners' cars churning though a million or more miles).
I'd figure that a cold start might be equivalent of a harsh 20 miles, at most. Oil viscosity is such that it doesn't all go down into the pan within a few minutes; lying around for a month or two might be another story. Some engines warm up to the right burn ratio within minutes, others take a half-hour to hit that sweet spot where its most efficient. Racing the car's engine and thrashing it after a cold start isn't really a good idea, that stunts its lifespan a lot more than a 800rpm idle will.
Constant start-ups will certainly put a lot more wear and tear on your charging system, your starter solenoid/motor, alternator, and battery will take a licking. The battery needs time to recharge; usually 15-20 of running helps replenish it. If you're driving a hybrid, which usually has a heavy-duty starter and alternator, plus a separate rechargeable battery pack designed for rapid depletion and storage, then it's okay to a degree.
Waiting ten minutes for that freight train - understandable, but those start-ups aren't really making up for the 60-90 seconds at a stoplight, no matter how bad your fuel economy.
Quote from: Zeffy on December 16, 2013, 01:34:18 PM
Quote from: Brandon on December 15, 2013, 11:13:28 PM
That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago. As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.
There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)
I don't know that the MUTCD prohibits a steady Don't Walk from being displayed on green.
Countdowns are less likely to reach zero when the light turns yellow/red in suburbia. I see it all the time here, especially on crosswalks parallel to the main road when nobody's waiting on the side street. Changing to don't walk while the light's still green allows the cycle to change instantly when a car does appear on the side street. (And pressing the button does instantly turn it to walk again if nobody's waiting on the side street.)
Calif has the most attractive hardware. It makes sense that their stuff is imitated elsewhere.
iPhone
Yeah, they might as well make Caltrans-spec signs while they're at it. ><
Quote from: NE2 on December 16, 2013, 08:35:20 PM
Countdowns are less likely to reach zero when the light turns yellow/red in suburbia. I see it all the time here, especially on crosswalks parallel to the main road when nobody's waiting on the side street. Changing to don't walk while the light's still green allows the cycle to change instantly when a car does appear on the side street. (And pressing the button does instantly turn it to walk again if nobody's waiting on the side street.)
Oh, well then I'm wrong if this is the case. I didn't think that it would count to zero and stay there when the light is still green and peds are still allowed to cross. The light usually doesn't change still when a car is at the intersection on the other side though.
Quote from: Blape on December 19, 2013, 11:51:59 PM
Calif has the most attractive hardware. It makes sense that their stuff is imitated elsewhere.
I do like California's sign bridges and cantilevers. Sometimes though their signs can be a bit crammed with the internal exit tabs depending on the amount of information it presents.
Quote from: sammi on December 19, 2013, 11:58:59 PM
Yeah, they might as well make Caltrans-spec signs while they're at it. ><
It'd definitely be interesting to see any other country that isn't the US pull off Caltrans styled signs.
Quote from: Zeffy on December 20, 2013, 12:07:36 AM
Oh, well then I'm wrong if this is the case. I didn't think that it would count to zero and stay there when the light is still green and peds are still allowed to cross.
Well, no. It changes to don't walk but the light is still green. Typical suburbia (though here it's not necessarily bad for peds, as explained, since it instantly goes back to walk if you push the button - the main negative impact is to sidewalk cyclists).
Quote from: Blape on December 19, 2013, 11:51:59 PM
Calif has the most attractive hardware. It makes sense that their stuff is imitated elsewhere.
I've seen this show before.
Adding to the countdown timer discussion earlier this thread, here's a pic of one I took on EDSA in Makati City:
(https://www.aaroads.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3741%2F11559295185_3fff3f6dce_c.jpg&hash=18469eb93e9e8198e3c5762b46a6d50ddd119473)
That would be easier to read with a black background.