American traffic control devices in the Philippines

[realjd]

Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?

That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.

RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right

I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.

[sammi]

RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right

I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.

Ah, the confusion between RHD (right-hand drive vehicles) and RHT (right-hand traffic). I might have made that same mistake talking to Jake (the new guy) in the hand-drawn thread. TL;DR RHD=LHT, LHD=RHT. The Philippines is LHD.

The relevant MUTCD page is here: Figure 4D-3. It says that red should be on the left, so this is in fact a backwards light. Having a horizontal traffic signal is unusual in itself, I think (having never seen one in my 13 years there), even more so like this. Then again, "typical" doesn't mean it should be one of those.

[vdeane]

Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?

That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.


RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right

I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.

I thought it was the reverse?  Pretty sure that's how I've always seen LHD and RHD used.

[Alps]

Red on the right? I've seen RHD countries with red on the left (like in the Bahamas - FDOT standard installations indicate Floridian contractors) but never seen a LHD country with red on the right! Are they all like that or is it just a case of lax standards and oversight like with the fonts?

That's my understanding of the rule for horizontal lights, actually.


RHD = steering wheel on the right = drive on the left
LHD = steering wheel on the left = drive on the right

I've never seen a light in an LHD country with red on the right (until this picture) but I have come across lights in RHD countries with red on the left.

I thought it was the reverse?  Pretty sure that's how I've always seen LHD and RHD used.

Okay, let's clarify our use from this point forward.

"LHD/RHD car" = a car with steering wheel on the left/right
"LHD/RHD road, country, system" (etc.) = a roadway where people drive on the left/right

Rather than debate which one it should be, because we're clearly of two minds, just specify. So, for example, I was of the opinion that the red light is on the right for horizontal signals in LHD countries, or in countries with RHD cars.

[KEK Inc.]

Most countries drive on the right.  Most former-British occupied countries except the U.S. drive on the left.



Interestingly, the U.S. Virgin Islands drives on the left, yet uses yellow lines for the centerline.

[tradephoric]

This is pretty interesting. In some of the cities, they usually like to install American traffic lights (they prefer the Californian traffic lights). Here are a few photos:

I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.  However, the countdown timers that let drivers know how much time is left before the light changes to yellow did have a significant impact on reducing red light runners. 

For anyone interested, here is the link to the study:
http://www.easts.info/on-line/proceedings_05/1301.pdf

[J N Winkler]

Okay, let's clarify our use from this point forward.

"LHD/RHD car" = a car with steering wheel on the left/right
"LHD/RHD road, country, system" (etc.) = a roadway where people drive on the left/right

Rather than debate which one it should be, because we're clearly of two minds, just specify. So, for example, I was of the opinion that the red light is on the right for horizontal signals in LHD countries, or in countries with RHD cars.

It actually makes more sense to discourage "LHD country," "RHD country," etc. as incorrect usage, and instead to encourage the use of phrases such as "left-driving" or "left-hand traffic" to refer to countries where traffic circulates on the left.  Third-party websites that track handedness of traffic largely already phrase the distinction in these terms; Wikipedia uses the left-hand traffic phrase, abbreviated LHT, to refer to left-driving countries.  The mnemonic is easy:  noun "drive" refers to the position of the steering wheel, while participle form "driving" refers to the side of the road vehicles drive on.

BTW, it is not always true that left-driving countries have RHD vehicles.  Sweden had LHD cars when it was still a left-driving country--this was one of the considerations that led to Dagen H--and the US Virgin Islands are a modern edge-case LHD/left-driving scenario.

[NE2]

I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.

The point is presumably to allow people to turn off their engines while sitting at a red.

[realjd]

I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.

The point is presumably to allow people to turn off their engines while sitting at a red.

I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?

[NE2]

I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?

Asians, apparently.

[Alps]

I've had plenty of rental cars that do that automatically but who does it manually?

Asians, apparently.

Starting your engine is very costly in terms of fuel use and wear/tear. I would think they're worse off than just letting it idle. I don't know what that means from an emissions standpoint, but I imagine it's all driven by perception instead of reality.

[J N Winkler]

Starting your engine is very costly in terms of fuel use and wear/tear. I would think they're worse off than just letting it idle. I don't know what that means from an emissions standpoint, but I imagine it's all driven by perception instead of reality.

It is only cold starts that are really costly in terms of fuel and wear:  the former because the engine consumes more fuel in all phases of operation until it warms up, and the latter because essentially all of the oil has drained back to the pan so that there is no lubrication initially.  Warm starts are much less costly since the engine is still warm and there is still oil on lubricated components.

The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.

As a general rule, I don't shut off my engine at stoplights, but I will do so at occupied railroad crossings when I cannot see the trailing end of the train.  I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off.  When I cold-start my car, I get it under road load ASAP and try to avoid shutting off the engine until it has warmed up in the course of normal operation, even if this means I have to postpone nearby stops on an errand chain until I am ready to return home.

As a general rule, the emissions system operates at peak efficiency when the engine is warm, at which point emissions generally track fuel consumption.

[tradephoric]

Other parts of the world do have extremely high cycle lengths compared to America, forcing drivers to wait a long time at red lights.  According to an article i read, 98 out of the 324 signals in Bangalore, India have a cycle length of more than 180 seconds (in America, the upper cycle length limits of many cities is 120 seconds).  It also mentioned in the article that the cops adjust the signal timings, and not a traffic engineer.   

With the long wait at red lights, maybe drivers do typically turn their engines off to prevent their vehicles from overheating (especially in arid regions).  The countdown timers would be helpful in that scenario i imagine. 

[Brandon]

I recently read a study that found the digital countdown timers don't improve the throughput of an intersection.  However, the countdown timers that let drivers know how much time is left before the light changes to yellow did have a significant impact on reducing red light runners. 

For anyone interested, here is the link to the study:
http://www.easts.info/on-line/proceedings_05/1301.pdf

That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago.  As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.

[Zeffy]

That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago.  As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.

There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)

[DaBigE]

...I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off.

I've always heard that was a bad idea, as you run the risk of cracking your windows due to the sudden temperature change of the hot water hitting the cold glass.

[agentsteel53]

The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.

well shit, I just put about 70,000 miles on my car this last week, then.

[myosh_tino]

There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)

That situation is somewhat common out here in California simply because a lot of signals do not use fixed timing but rather use on-demand timing.  In the case of on-demand timing, there is a minimum and maximum green phase time but if the pavement detection loops detect that there is no further traffic traveling in the direction of the current green phase and there is cross traffic waiting, it will prematurely end the green phase and cycle the lights.

[J N Winkler]

...I never allow my car to run at a cold idle "to warm it up"--if I have to clear ice off exterior glass, for example, I do it with hot water and a squeegee when the engine is shut off.

I've always heard that was a bad idea, as you run the risk of cracking your windows due to the sudden temperature change of the hot water hitting the cold glass.

I have heard the same thing, but I did it last Monday without any problems.  (It was the day after a freezing drizzle, when the high was barely 20° F, and I needed to drive up to Manhattan, Kansas.)  The secret is to use water heated finger-hot, not boiling-hot, and to pour it on areas of glass that have relatively thick films of ice.  You do have to be quick with the squeegee since even the warm water will re-freeze quite fast.

The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.

well shit, I just put about 70,000 miles on my car this last week, then.

The engine is probably good for the equivalent of millions and millions of warm-cycle miles.  These estimates as to the comparative wear penalties of starting an engine cold versus warm are actually not all that good for forecasting the expected service life of an engine even given a typical duty cycle that is fairly strictly adhered to.  They do illustrate why engines that have frequent cold starts per mile of travel reach a given likelihood of having problems requiring repair and or signs of performance impairment (e.g. low compression) at much lower odometer mileages than ones which are routinely driven hours without interruption on the highway.

[formulanone]

The figures I have heard (which are not necessarily true for all models) are that one cold start is equivalent in wear terms to about 10,000 miles of warm-cycle operation, while one warm start is equal to 500 miles, and one warm start consumes as much fuel as thirty seconds idling when warm.

I would hazard a guess that the "10,000 miles of wear per cold start" is a little over the top. Figure on two cold starts per day, that's the equivalent of "over 7 million miles of wear" per year. No engine is designed for that lifecycle; perhaps a half million in real-world research and development throughout its expected lifespan (although there's a handful of documented cases of owners' cars churning though a million or more miles).

I'd figure that a cold start might be equivalent of a harsh 20 miles, at most. Oil viscosity is such that it doesn't all go down into the pan within a few minutes; lying around for a month or two might be another story. Some engines warm up to the right burn ratio within minutes, others take a half-hour to hit that sweet spot where its most efficient. Racing the car's engine and thrashing it after a cold start isn't really a good idea, that stunts its lifespan a lot more than a 800rpm idle will.

Constant start-ups will certainly put a lot more wear and tear on your charging system, your starter solenoid/motor, alternator, and battery will take a licking. The battery needs time to recharge; usually 15-20 of running helps replenish it. If you're driving a hybrid, which usually has a heavy-duty starter and alternator, plus a separate rechargeable battery pack designed for rapid depletion and storage, then it's okay to a degree.

Waiting ten minutes for that freight train - understandable, but those start-ups aren't really making up for the 60-90 seconds at a stoplight, no matter how bad your fuel economy.

[Alps]

That's how I use the pedestrian countdown signals in Chicago.  As they are tied to the light cycle and count to zero on yellow, they work well for that unintended purpose.

There's a light in Somerville that has a countdown timer just like the ones you mentioned, and the light is still green when it hits zero. Maybe I should go tell the County to fix that... (usually when it's about to hit zero, I'll gun it and try and beat the light if I can do it without being dangerous.)

I don't know that the MUTCD prohibits a steady Don't Walk from being displayed on green.

[NE2]

Countdowns are less likely to reach zero when the light turns yellow/red in suburbia. I see it all the time here, especially on crosswalks parallel to the main road when nobody's waiting on the side street. Changing to don't walk while the light's still green allows the cycle to change instantly when a car does appear on the side street. (And pressing the button does instantly turn it to walk again if nobody's waiting on the side street.)

[Blape]

Calif has the most attractive hardware. It makes sense that their stuff is imitated elsewhere.


iPhone

[sammi]

Yeah, they might as well make Caltrans-spec signs while they're at it. ><

[Zeffy]

Countdowns are less likely to reach zero when the light turns yellow/red in suburbia. I see it all the time here, especially on crosswalks parallel to the main road when nobody's waiting on the side street. Changing to don't walk while the light's still green allows the cycle to change instantly when a car does appear on the side street. (And pressing the button does instantly turn it to walk again if nobody's waiting on the side street.)

Oh, well then I'm wrong if this is the case. I didn't think that it would count to zero and stay there when the light is still green and peds are still allowed to cross. The light usually doesn't change still when a car is at the intersection on the other side though.

Calif has the most attractive hardware. It makes sense that their stuff is imitated elsewhere.

I do like California's sign bridges and cantilevers. Sometimes though their signs can be a bit crammed with the internal exit tabs depending on the amount of information it presents.

Yeah, they might as well make Caltrans-spec signs while they're at it. ><

It'd definitely be interesting to see any other country that isn't the US pull off Caltrans styled signs.