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I-69 Ohio River Bridge

Started by truejd, August 05, 2010, 10:32:59 AM

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Grzrd

Quote from: hbelkins on February 21, 2014, 09:23:24 AM
Quote from: theline on February 21, 2014, 12:21:08 AM
Thanks for a very interesting clip. It starts out as a roast of Mayor Payne, but it quickly moves on to a serious discussion of the bridges. The Chamber sees the new bridges connecting Evansville and Henderson as inevitable, and I agree. The question is when they will be built. Judging from this clip and other news I've seen upthread, there is a lot of sentiment that it should be done by 2020. That very optimistic goal may not be attainable, but the number of influential forces that are lining up will put a lot of political pressure on getting it done.
That's a lot of work to be done in six years, and I can only imagine the amount of environmental work that will need to be done on a major river crossing like this.
The Brent Spence bridge replacement in Cincinnati is a greater need, and Kentucky will be committing to completing a new 50-mile four-lane Mountain Parkway/KY 114 route between Campton and Prestonsburg by 2020, so I really don't see a 2020 completion date for the I-69 bridges as a reasonable possibility.
Quote from: The Great Zo on March 11, 2014, 09:00:04 PM
Quote from: Captain Jack on March 11, 2014, 01:14:54 AM
Further, Payne said he might propose that the city of Owensboro hire an engineering firm to prepare cost estimates to compare the cost of building a new billion-dollar bridge across the Ohio River between Henderson and Evansville versus upgrading highways in Owensboro and Southern Indiana and using the existing Natcher Bridge in eastern Daviess County
Well, that's going to make him some friends.

This TV video reports that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin still hope to have the bridge built by 2020, and Winnecke says a new study supports a reduced cost estimate of $800 million to build the bridge:

Quote
Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke says the I-69 bridge could be a lot cheaper than first projected.
Mayor Winnecke says a new study shows the bridge could cost about $800 million.
That's $600 million less than first thought.
Winnecke says this new estimate is partly based on the savings seen in St. Louis with the I-70 bridge.
"The 2008 estimate of $1.4 billion we believe is high," said Mayor Winnecke. "Now with what we've witnessed in St. Louis we really believe it's high, and so we have folks working to narrow to a more refined scope."
Mayor Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin hope to have the bridge built by the year 2020. Both expect it to be a toll bridge. However, a price to cross the bridge hasn't been revealed.


Revive 755

^ They do remember that only have of the I-70 Mississippi bridge was built, even after scaling it back once, right?  IIRC, the bids for the main span of that bridge were still over the estimate.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: Revive 755 on June 11, 2014, 08:51:49 PM
^ They do remember that only have of the I-70 Mississippi bridge was built, even after scaling it back once, right?  IIRC, the bids for the main span of that bridge were still over the estimate.

A bridge like "The Stan" would be sufficient to carry traffic across the Ohio there for at least the foreseeable future, IMHO.  Keep in mind, most local traffic would probably still use the Twin Bridges.  I could be wrong, but if it they can find a way to get it for less, I think they ought to do it.

Grzrd

#403
Quote from: Grzrd on January 22, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
Steven Ross, Transportation Engineering Branch Manager at KYTC, just posted the entire Ohio River Bridge DEIS.  Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx
In an email, he cautions that, as time has passed, it is now basically an artifact of history:
Quote
Please be advised that a final environmental assessment was never approved by the Federal Highway Administration due to the inability of the Henderson-Evansville MPO's Long Range Transportation Plan being able to demonstrate fiscal constraint with this project included.  Given the inability to pay for the alternatives under consideration at that point in time and due to the passage of time, all work prepared really just becomes background or reference information for a new process that would be required should there become a means to fund this undertaking.
Quote from: Grzrd on June 11, 2014, 08:13:56 AM
This TV video reports that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin still hope to have the bridge built by 2020, and Winnecke says a new study supports a reduced cost estimate of $800 million to build the bridge

This article reports that the Indiana Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure lists the I-69 bridge as a key state project and that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke has asked Governor Mike Pence to provide funding for an environmental impact study for the bridge:

Quote
Plans for an Interstate 69 bridge linking Indiana and Kentucky received a boost of recognition from the state on Wednesday.
The project was scored among the highest for future transportation projects by the Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure, whose membership includes Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke.
Gov. Mike Pence accepted the recommendations from the report, but though it lists the I-69 bridge as a key state project, no funding is provided for the project by its inclusion in the report.
Winnecke, who was in Indianapolis for the report's release, said he's working to dispel a cost estimate of $1.4 billion for the project. He said the actual cost for the bridge over the Ohio River likely will range between $700 million and $800 million.
Winnecke said he's asked Pence to provide funding for an environmental impact study for the bridge, which is a required step to determine the route.

Winnecke said he was pleasantly surprised to see how the bridge rated in the report by the Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure and how other members of the commission saw its importance. The bridge is included as one of four "Tier 1"  projects, which rated as the most significant to the state.
"One of the beauties of the commission is that people really took time to research and read data that were presented in the project,"  Winnecke said. "In our minds in Southwest Indiana, (the bridge) is a completion of I-69."  ....
Building the I-69 bridge will be a joint venture between Kentucky and Indiana.
Kentucky officials have already done work to study a potential location for the bridge and hope is for construction to begin by 2020.
In October, Winnecke and Henderson (Kentucky) Mayor Steve Austin launched BridgeLink, an organization focused on building the bridge over the Ohio River.

edit

I just noticed that Captain Jack posted a link to this article in the Indiana thread before I finished this post:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg311313#msg311313

I'll go ahead and keep this post unless the mods want to delete it.

thefro

#404
Quote from: Grzrd on July 09, 2014, 10:36:15 PM
Quote from: Grzrd on January 22, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
Steven Ross, Transportation Engineering Branch Manager at KYTC, just posted the entire Ohio River Bridge DEIS.  Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx
In an email, he cautions that, as time has passed, it is now basically an artifact of history:
Quote
Please be advised that a final environmental assessment was never approved by the Federal Highway Administration due to the inability of the Henderson-Evansville MPO's Long Range Transportation Plan being able to demonstrate fiscal constraint with this project included.  Given the inability to pay for the alternatives under consideration at that point in time and due to the passage of time, all work prepared really just becomes background or reference information for a new process that would be required should there become a means to fund this undertaking.
Quote from: Grzrd on June 11, 2014, 08:13:56 AM
This TV video reports that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke and Henderson Mayor Steve Austin still hope to have the bridge built by 2020, and Winnecke says a new study supports a reduced cost estimate of $800 million to build the bridge

This article reports that the Indiana Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure lists the I-69 bridge as a key state project and that Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke has asked Governor Mike Pence to provide funding for an environmental impact study for the bridge:

Quote
Plans for an Interstate 69 bridge linking Indiana and Kentucky received a boost of recognition from the state on Wednesday.
The project was scored among the highest for future transportation projects by the Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure, whose membership includes Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke.
Gov. Mike Pence accepted the recommendations from the report, but though it lists the I-69 bridge as a key state project, no funding is provided for the project by its inclusion in the report.
Winnecke, who was in Indianapolis for the report's release, said he's working to dispel a cost estimate of $1.4 billion for the project. He said the actual cost for the bridge over the Ohio River likely will range between $700 million and $800 million.
Winnecke said he's asked Pence to provide funding for an environmental impact study for the bridge, which is a required step to determine the route.

Winnecke said he was pleasantly surprised to see how the bridge rated in the report by the Blue Ribbon Panel on Transportation Infrastructure and how other members of the commission saw its importance. The bridge is included as one of four "Tier 1"  projects, which rated as the most significant to the state.
"One of the beauties of the commission is that people really took time to research and read data that were presented in the project,"  Winnecke said. "In our minds in Southwest Indiana, (the bridge) is a completion of I-69."  ....
Building the I-69 bridge will be a joint venture between Kentucky and Indiana.
Kentucky officials have already done work to study a potential location for the bridge and hope is for construction to begin by 2020.
In October, Winnecke and Henderson (Kentucky) Mayor Steve Austin launched BridgeLink, an organization focused on building the bridge over the Ohio River.

edit

I just noticed that Captain Jack posted a link to this article in the Indiana thread before I finished this post:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=4855.msg311313#msg311313

I'll go ahead and keep this post unless the mods want to delete it.

There's a bunch of different projects listed in the report, so I made a post in the "Indiana Notes" thread talking about it.  The $1.4 billion cost estimate for the bridge is in the report.

Grzrd

#405
Quote from: Grzrd on July 09, 2014, 10:36:15 PM
This article
Quote
Evansville Mayor Lloyd Winnecke. ....
said he's working to dispel a cost estimate of $1.4 billion for the project. He said the actual cost for the bridge over the Ohio River likely will range between $700 million and $800 million ...

This article provides some details on how the reduced cost for the bridge has been calculated; basically, shorten the new terrain approaches and reduce the width of the bridge:

Quote
For years, the greatest obstacle in building a bridge across the Ohio River here for Interstate 69 has been summed up by a cost estimate that was developed a decade ago: $1.4 billion.
Now, a Henderson-Evansville I-69 advocacy group is presenting a modified vision for the project that it says could be built for approximately $800 million – roughly half the cost of the earlier proposal ....
The cost savings would come largely from modifying two aspects of the original proposal:
Constructing a four-lane, rather than a six-lane bridge, with narrower shoulders. It would be 83 feet wide instead of the original 130-foot-wide proposal.
Shaving three miles off a new I-69 roadway, or approaches, that would tie the bridge in with the existing Pennyrile Parkway at Henderson.
The previous vision was to have I-69 swing more than a mile east of the Henderson city limits, crossing U.S. 60-East between Broadview and Pleasantview subdivisions; passing over Kentucky 351 west of Zion; and then crossing the Audubon Parkway before tying into the Pennyrile Parkway somewhere south of the Kentucky 425/South Bypass, a mile or two south of Henderson.
BridgeLink instead proposes having I-69 skirt Henderson's eastern city limits, crossing U.S. 60-East just east of the railroad viaduct, then passing through farmland behind Balmoral Acres subdivision before tying into the U.S. 41-Bypass (between Kentucky 351 and the U.S. 60 cloverleaf) just north of where it connects with the Pennyrile.
Such a route would trim the length of the new roadway from 9.2 miles to 6.2 miles and reduce the number of interchanges that would be required from five to three by eliminating the need for interchanges at Kentucky 351 and the Audubon Parkway.
"It misses Audubon State Park, it misses the wetlands (along the Ohio River that are associated with the park) and goes between housing (subdivisions),"  Austin said. "All these things are doable and they come in at slightly less than $800 million,"  helped in part by reducing the estimated cost of design work and project contingency percentage to what he called "industry standards."  ....
As for reducing the bridge itself from six lanes to four, Austin said that would be comparable to the newly opened I-70 bridge across the Mississippi River at St. Louis, which he said handles traffic volumes comparable to an I-69 bridge here ....
BridgeLink also contends that the cost of maintenance on the U.S. 41 Twin Bridges could be reduced if all heavy trucks were required to use the I-69 bridge; Austin said getting heavy trucks off U.S. 41 might also make it feasible to eventually convert the 82-year-old northbound U.S. 41 bridge for use by pedestrians and bicyclists only.




Quote from: Grzrd on January 22, 2014, 12:08:53 PM
Steven Ross, Transportation Engineering Branch Manager at KYTC, just posted the entire Ohio River Bridge DEIS.  Links to sections of the DEIS can found in the "Henderson to Evansville - Proposed Interstate 69" section at the bottom of this page:
http://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Pages/I-69.aspx

From the above-linked article:
Quote
The BridgeLink proposal for the bridge approach was one of nine that Kentucky and Indiana considered more than a decade ago, he noted. (Kentucky Transportation Cabinet engineers have also recently been looking at ways to reduce the length and cost of the approach route.)

A new environmental study will have to be conducted; it seems like this alternative was passed over a decade ago.  It will be interesting to see if this alternative survives the environmental process this time around.




Here is a snip of the map of BridgeLink's suggested alternative from the article:


lordsutch

Of course, if they move the new bridge closer to the existing one, or (as seems likely) have to decommission the older of the two existing US 41 spans, it may end up attracting more traffic sooner than they anticipate. Even if you omit the US 60 interchange now to reduce the diversion attraction, there's no guarantee 10-20 years down the road the locals won't push for it to be added and consequently overload the new bridge.

codyg1985

I didn't realize that the original proposal called for a six-lane I-69 bridge. On one hand, that is good thinking ahead, but on the other hand, would it be necessary for a while with the US 41 bridges in place, even if one of the spans would need to be decommissioned? I wonder if the original proposal also called for the entire new terrain route to be six lanes, or just the Ohio River bridge?
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

Pete from Boston

I'm surprised at the new route–this is where I already assumed was the logical place for it to go.

thefro

#409
I like the proposed route a lot better... never made sense to me why they weren't going to use more of the existing parkway.

Since they'll be using electronic tolling on the bridge, I think 4 lanes will be fine.  I'd like to see them acquire the ROW so that they could build another parallel bridge in 30-50 years if needed (if one of the US 41 bridges is decommissioned or if traffic increases a lot).

I think the biggest positive is the reduced cost makes funding a lot more feasible, since according to the article tolls would generate $380 million over the first 20 years.

silverback1065

Why would they decommission the us 41 bridge?  Why not just build a new one?

US 41

Quote from: silverback1065 on July 17, 2014, 09:08:02 AM
Why would they decommission the us 41 bridge?  Why not just build a new one?

They could build a new 41 bridge and replace the really old one. Then route 69 onto US 41 over the River.
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silverback1065

They could but having 2 crossings is better

Pete from Boston


Quote from: US 41 on July 17, 2014, 09:11:10 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 17, 2014, 09:08:02 AM
Why would they decommission the us 41 bridge?  Why not just build a new one?

They could build a new 41 bridge and replace the really old one. Then route 69 onto US 41 over the River.

The ROW is too difficult in Henderson.  Old news. 

hbelkins

I can't see a six-lane bridge being necessary here. The I-24 bridge at Paducah is only four lanes, and there's no good alternative nearby (the US 45 bridge is old, has a steel deck and has weight/width issues) like there is with the US 41 bridges. Four lanes should be fine.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Avalanchez71

Just leave it alone and have I-69 run through Henderson like I-180 runs in WY and I-70 through Breezewood.  Tons of money saved and good enough to get the job done.  This is an excellent stopping point for folks. 

Anthony_JK

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 17, 2014, 06:33:58 PM
Just leave it alone and have I-69 run through Henderson like I-180 runs in WY and I-70 through Breezewood.  Tons of money saved and good enough to get the job done.  This is an excellent stopping point for folks. 

And while we're at it, let's just tear down I-10 in Baton Rouge and have interstate traffic use Airline Highway  and Perkins Road.

Seriously?? Either bad attempt of humor, or just plain crazy.

Avalanchez71

US 41 already handles interstate traffic.  The bridges lead to Indiana, however, the other side of the river is still Kentucky at that point.

vdeane

Quote from: silverback1065 on July 17, 2014, 09:08:02 AM
Why would they decommission the us 41 bridge?  Why not just build a new one?
It needs to be replaced anyways, and US 41 will likely have no need for more than two lanes after I-69 is built.  Why not save some money?
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Revive 755

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 17, 2014, 10:00:37 PM
US 41 already handles interstate traffic.  The bridges lead to Indiana, however, the other side of the river is still Kentucky at that point.

And just how well is it handling parkway to what currently exists of the I-69 corridor?  How is the level of service/capacity and the accident rate?  How well is it going to handle this traffic in 20 years  when more parts of the I-69 corridor are completed?


I wonder if six lanes for the new bridge was more along the lines of building the bridge so it can handle six lanes in the future, but initially stripe it for four lanes kind of plan?

hbelkins

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 17, 2014, 06:33:58 PM
Just leave it alone and have I-69 run through Henderson like I-180 runs in WY and I-70 through Breezewood.  Tons of money saved and good enough to get the job done.  This is an excellent stopping point for folks. 

The Henderson strip is already a cluster foxtrot. When I-69 becomes substantially complete in Indiana and Tennessee, or at least to Dyersburg, where traffic can jump over and hit I-55 in Missouri and Arkansas, and more through traffic starts using I-69, it'll be even worse.

Somebody else complained about I-73/I-74 hatred in another thread. I don't understand this objection to I-69.




I've driven I-40 between Nashville and Memphis once, and that's enough for me. I hated that route. Talk about long and boring. If I'm in Indy and I want to get to Memphis, or to a destination that involves a routing through Memphis, I'm taking I-69. Heck, I'd probably use IN 37 and other routes to get to the completed section of I-69 now. The reason being, you avoid Louisville, you avoid Nashville, and you avoid the heavy traffic on I-65 between Indy and Louisville, and I-40 between Nashville and Memphis.

Even now, I'd rather use the Kentucky parkways and US 51 than go through Nashville and have to endure I-40.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Avalanchez71

When I need to get to Chicagoland and points north in WI I use US 41.  The highway is just fine as is.  Yes the bridge does need work.  I don't want it to collapse and dump into the Ohio.  I think it is a nice break to stop in Henderson, not that Henderson is something special, but just nice to say hey it is time to stop.

Pete from Boston


Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 18, 2014, 08:48:20 AM
When I need to get to Chicagoland and points north in WI I use US 41.  The highway is just fine as is.  Yes the bridge does need work.  I don't want it to collapse and dump into the Ohio.  I think it is a nice break to stop in Henderson, not that Henderson is something special, but just nice to say hey it is time to stop.

You are aware, right, that long-distance, high-speed through routes are designed to keep people moving fast the whole way, and  that the notion of a predecided/encouraged/forced commercial-corridor detour from those routes is presumptuous and contrary to the aforementioned goal,

right?




Brandon

Quote from: vdeane on July 17, 2014, 10:08:36 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on July 17, 2014, 09:08:02 AM
Why would they decommission the us 41 bridge?  Why not just build a new one?
It needs to be replaced anyways, and US 41 will likely have no need for more than two lanes after I-69 is built.  Why not save some money?

Wanna bet?  US-41 connects the downtowns of two cities on either side of the Ohio River at this point.  It should maintain 4 lanes (2 per direction).
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tdindy88

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on July 18, 2014, 08:48:20 AM
When I need to get to Chicagoland and points north in WI I use US 41.  The highway is just fine as is.  Yes the bridge does need work.  I don't want it to collapse and dump into the Ohio.  I think it is a nice break to stop in Henderson, not that Henderson is something special, but just nice to say hey it is time to stop.

I'm sure this is what the people in Breezewood, Pennsylvania think. You shouldn't be forced on an interstate to stop in one particular town over another. If you want to stop for a break in Henderson, fine, if you want to stop in Evansville (a larger city with more services,) fine, if you want to wait until Madisonville, fine again. It should be your choice and something not forced upon you because the leaders of that community zoned it that way.



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