Virginia

[froggie]

I know Jennifer Mitchell personally from her time on the Alexandria Transportation Commission.  Good person to keep in that role.

[Beltway]

Gov.-elect Ralph Northam has named Shannon Valentine as the new Secretary of Transportation and Stephen Birch as commissioner of VDOT.
http://shoredailynews.com/northam-names-new-sec-of-transportation/

Virginia Gov.-elect Ralph Northam has named a former House delegate and current member of the Commonwealth Transportation Board as his secretary of transportation.

Stephen Birch??  First time I heard of him.  Very surprised to hear that Charlie Kilpatrick is not being retained as commissioner, a class act all the way around and someone who worked his way up thru the VDOT engineer ranks.

Shannon Valentine made sure to make her voice heard many times at the CTB meeting last week, during times when board members commented at various times at the meetings.

[no need to post a disclaimer as I have been fully retired from VDOT and any state employment since May! :-)]

[Thing 342]

Drove on the new Southgate Drive DDI this morning.
Some notes:

• As is the case with new installs of these types of intersections, everyone else driving on it looked like they were driving back from a root canal.
• BGSs for the new interchange haven't been installed yet, but will be numbered as Exit 6. Have to image that the Price's Fork and Tom's Creek interchanges will receive numbers in the future.
• Southgate Drive will still be signed as VA-314 East from US-460 (though signage disappears after the interchange)
• The curve on the ramps to/from EB 460 is deceptively tight, hopefully they will add warning signs or something.
• Signage is an inconsistent mix of FHWA and Clearview

Will update this post when I get home with pictures.

[VTGoose]

It is possible that Virginia is who decided to call it 79 first.  See pages 21-22 at http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/meetings/minutes_pdf/CTB-04-1958-01.pdf which describes the approval of the corridor and the assignment of 79 to it.  I have not seen any information that I recall about North Carolina deciding to call it that other than the map I found at the start of this thread.

[Pulling this from the I-79 thread since this is more Virginia and less I-79.] It was interesting reading those minutes, which show that Lynchburg was being stiffed on interstate access way back in the '40s and '50s. It was interesting to see Christiansburg tagged in the list but not Lynchburg.

I have also heard it bandied about but haven't been able to confirm that one routing for I-81 called for it to take off on a more northerly route around Dublin (exit 98) to more closely follow U.S. 11 east to Fairlawn, then follow the VA 114 corridor to U.S. 460 then continue east toward Salem and Roanoke. This would have put the interstate between Blacksburg and Christiansburg (improving access to Virginia Tech) instead of on the south side of Christiansburg (which was a problem until the improvements to U.S. 460 were completed between the Blacksburg and Christiansburg bypasses).

I have also wondered about Virginia's designs, which had the interstates passing around (and in some cases, a distance away) towns and cities instead of a closer routing, for example Roanoke, Winchester, Bristol, Wytheville, etc. Granted, some of those areas have grown to fill in the area between downtown and the interstate (Roanoke, not so much), but it seems so inconvenient.

Bruce in Blacksburg

[VTGoose]

Drove on the new Southgate Drive DDI this morning.
Some notes:

• As is the case with new installs of these types of intersections, everyone else driving on it looked like they were driving back from a root canal.
• BGSs for the new interchange haven't been installed yet, but will be numbered as Exit 6. Have to image that the Price's Fork and Tom's Creek interchanges will receive numbers in the future.
• Southgate Drive will still be signed as VA-314 East from US-460 (though signage disappears after the interchange)
• The curve on the ramps to/from EB 460 is deceptively tight, hopefully they will add warning signs or something.
• Signage is an inconsistent mix of FHWA and Clearview

Will update this post when I get home with pictures.

Drove Southgate in the dark last night to get to U.S. 460 westbound -- now I need to do it in daylight. It will be nice not having to slow down/stop at that traffic light, which caused a bunching of traffic from people who couldn't/wouldn't increase their speed back up to 65 between the light and the Prices Fork exit.

While the concept of the project is great, there are some parts of it that will be interesting to see how they play out and there are some parts that show this project must have been designed by a junior engineer with a degree from UVa*. The roundabouts may be a great concept (and they work OK downtown and at one Virginia Tech campus intersection) but the layout of the one at Duck Pond Dr. seems a bit off and not really conducive to moving large amounts of football traffic from campus to 460. Same goes for the one at the new road to the Corporate Research Center. Time will tell. The tight ramp is odd, since there is only an open farm field there and it wouldn't have taken much to extend the road just a bit to make for a more gradual curve in the ramp. I just hope that the contractor did a good job on compacting the soil behind the bridge abutments to avoid early settling. It didn't take too long on the "new" 460 between Blacksburg and Christiansburg for it to be a driving adventure when approaching the various bridges -- the abrupt dip and hump wasn't fun to hit at speed. A couple of years ago new asphalt was applied at two of the bridges to fill in the dips.

Bruce in Blacksburg


*I had a friend who was a transportation engineering graduate from Tennessee. He worked for the N&W Railway and worked with someone who had an engineering degree from UVa. Dwight claimed that UVa taught "social engineering" -- how to serve tea and how to dance at a cotillion but didn't teach practical engineering, based on how little his colleague knew.

[Mapmikey]

[Pulling this from the I-79 thread since this is more Virginia and less I-79.] It was interesting reading those minutes, which show that Lynchburg was being stiffed on interstate access way back in the '40s and '50s. It was interesting to see Christiansburg tagged in the list but not Lynchburg.

Note that the CTB did adopt the Lynchburg route  (see the 2 maps of the routing from Scott's website here - http://www.roadstothefuture.com/i64vastudy.html) in June 1959.  They made changes to the route in Dec 1960 but only right at Richmond.  In March 1961 (CTB) it was noted that the Bureau of Public Roads rejected Virginia's request to adopt the southern route for I-64. The CTB then voted to vigorously investigate the disapproval, using the governor and attorney general as necessary.
In April 1961, the CTB voted 5-2 against a motion to adopt the northern route of I-64, even given the reaffirmation by the Bureau of Public Roads that I-64 is to use the northern route. The defeated motion noted that delays in building I-64 were becoming noticeable by the public and that the issue had been under study since Oct 1957. Despite again rejecting the northern route, there are no other CTB references I can find to this and projects for I-64 along the northern route started appearing in 1962, so I guess sometime in late 1961 the Bureau of Public Roads said a final no.

If you are not comfortable finding the old CTB references I can get the links for you if you are interested in reading the actual minutes discussing this.

The middle finger to Lynchburg came from the feds, not from the CTB...

[Beltway]

*I had a friend who was a transportation engineering graduate from Tennessee. He worked for the N&W Railway and worked with someone who had an engineering degree from UVa. Dwight claimed that UVa taught "social engineering" -- how to serve tea and how to dance at a cotillion but didn't teach practical engineering, based on how little his colleague knew.

You can't really judge the whole program based on the quality of one graduate.  I have heard generally good things about UVA engineering schools and their graduates.

From Wikipedia --
The University of Virginia School of Engineering and Applied Science (SEAS), established in 1836, is the oldest engineering school in the South and the fourth oldest in the United States. [...]  In 1836, the Board of Visitors made civil engineering a formal course of study at the University of Virginia.

...
I don't have any dog in the contest between UVA and VPI.  I have two family members that got baccalaureates from VPI in 1974 and one family member that got a masters from UVA in 1980.  I myself got my degrees from VCU.

[Beltway]

Note that the CTB did adopt the Lynchburg route  (see the 2 maps of the routing from Scott's website here - http://www.roadstothefuture.com/i64vastudy.html) in June 1959.  They made changes to the route in Dec 1960 but only right at Richmond.  In March 1961 (CTB) it was noted that the Bureau of Public Roads rejected Virginia's request to adopt the southern route for I-64. The CTB then voted to vigorously investigate the disapproval, using the governor and attorney general as necessary.
In April 1961, the CTB voted 5-2 against a motion to adopt the northern route of I-64, even given the reaffirmation by the Bureau of Public Roads that I-64 is to use the northern route. The defeated motion noted that delays in building I-64 were becoming noticeable by the public and that the issue had been under study since Oct 1957. Despite again rejecting the northern route, there are no other CTB references I can find to this and projects for I-64 along the northern route started appearing in 1962, so I guess sometime in late 1961 the Bureau of Public Roads said a final no.
If you are not comfortable finding the old CTB references I can get the links for you if you are interested in reading the actual minutes discussing this.
The middle finger to Lynchburg came from the feds, not from the CTB...

My link also shows an accurate route of the initial iteration of the northern route.  Notice how it passes north of Charlottesville and Waynesboro, that was later changed to the south thereof.  The initial iteration route across the Afton Mountain summit was retained.  The initial iteration route between Lexington and Clifton Forge as seen on the link was a direct route and included a mountain tunnel near Collierstown, later revised to the as-built dogleg route across North Mountain with no tunnel.

[Beltway]

I have also wondered about Virginia's designs, which had the interstates passing around (and in some cases, a distance away) towns and cities instead of a closer routing, for example Roanoke, Winchester, Bristol, Wytheville, etc. Granted, some of those areas have grown to fill in the area between downtown and the interstate (Roanoke, not so much), but it seems so inconvenient.
Bruce in Blacksburg

Fairly standard for Interstate routings around the country, about 2 to 3 miles from the CBD of small cities and about 4 to 5 miles from the CBD of medium-small cities.  Two of them got Interstate spurs to connect to the CBD.

[Thing 342]

Drove through the new intersection between US-11 and US-220A and noticed a familiar shield:

Given the number of additional similar shields (There were a set heading the opposite direction and one for VA-167 SOUTH at the other end of the road), it appears that Gateway Crossing has been designated as a revived VA-167. Why? I have no idea. Maybe VDOT just likes the number. (based upon their refusal to remove VA-167 from official maps despite the fact it hasn't existed in Hampton since the '90s)

[74/171FAN]

Given the number of additional similar shields (There were a set heading the opposite direction and one for VA-167 SOUTH at the other end of the road), it appears that Gateway Crossing has been designated as a revived VA-167. Why? I have no idea. Maybe VDOT just likes the number. (based upon their refusal to remove VA-167 from official maps despite the fact it hasn't existed in Hampton since the '90s)

Considering that I had to use Gateway Crossing as the detour for US 11 when I drove through here the day after the Beckley Meet, I guess I can technically consider this new VA 167 already clinched.

[jakeroot]

Drove through the new intersection between US-11 and US-220A...

Does VDOT use time-of-day phasing for that left turn flashing yellow arrow? Maybe the crosswalk was activated and the red arrow displayed as a precaution (I see that in my area a lot).

[Mapmikey]

Drove through the new intersection between US-11 and US-220A and noticed a familiar shield:

Given the number of additional similar shields (There were a set heading the opposite direction and one for VA-167 SOUTH at the other end of the road), it appears that Gateway Crossing has been designated as a revived VA-167. Why? I have no idea. Maybe VDOT just likes the number. (based upon their refusal to remove VA-167 from official maps despite the fact it hasn't existed in Hampton since the '90s)

IMO this would've been a Y route 30 years ago...

[VTGoose]

*I had a friend who was a transportation engineering graduate from Tennessee. He worked for the N&W Railway and worked with someone who had an engineering degree from UVa. Dwight claimed that UVa taught "social engineering" -- how to serve tea and how to dance at a cotillion but didn't teach practical engineering, based on how little his colleague knew.

You can't really judge the whole program based on the quality of one graduate.  I have heard generally good things about UVA engineering schools and their graduates.

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn, "It's a joke, son!"

[VTGoose]

Drove Southgate in the dark last night to get to U.S. 460 westbound -- now I need to do it in daylight. It will be nice not having to slow down/stop at that traffic light, which caused a bunching of traffic from people who couldn't/wouldn't increase their speed back up to 65 between the light and the Prices Fork exit.

The Blacksburg Volunteer Rescue Squad created a YouTube video that shows the various routings through the new interchange:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjaOBAHSr1k&feature=youtu.be

Bruce in Blacksburg (member of the Special Ops division of BVRS)

[Beltway]

Drove Southgate in the dark last night to get to U.S. 460 westbound -- now I need to do it in daylight. It will be nice not having to slow down/stop at that traffic light, which caused a bunching of traffic from people who couldn't/wouldn't increase their speed back up to 65 between the light and the Prices Fork exit.

The Blacksburg Volunteer Rescue Squad created a YouTube video that shows the various routings through the new interchange:
[...]
Bruce in Blacksburg (member of the Special Ops division of BVRS)

Good video.  Did they finish all the final asphalt surfaces?  Looks like they did ... and that is good they were able to complete that in December rather than wait until spring.

[VTGoose]

Good video.  Did they finish all the final asphalt surfaces?  Looks like they did ... and that is good they were able to complete that in December rather than wait until spring.

It stayed mild enough to get most of the paving done to be able to open the new road and ramps. But it all isn't final yet, per an email from VDOT in response to my question about the 460 lanes shifting into the median.

"The lane shift on Route 460 to the median is temporary.  The Department still has milling and paving operations to be completed on Route 460 as well as all surface asphalt to be placed on the newly relocated Southgate Road.  This work will not happen until spring when temperatures are within specifications for paving and final line markings."

So we have a shiny new interchange, which is good, with more work to make it better to come when the weather improves. It is nice that it was opened now instead of waiting until all the work was completed (there is still sign work, landscaping, and other things to be done).

Bruce in Blacksburg

[Beltway]

Good video.  Did they finish all the final asphalt surfaces?  Looks like they did ... and that is good they were able to complete that in December rather than wait until spring.

It stayed mild enough to get most of the paving done to be able to open the new road and ramps. But it all isn't final yet, per an email from VDOT in response to my question about the 460 lanes shifting into the median.
"The lane shift on Route 460 to the median is temporary.  The Department still has milling and paving operations to be completed on Route 460 as well as all surface asphalt to be placed on the newly relocated Southgate Road.  This work will not happen until spring when temperatures are within specifications for paving and final line markings."
So we have a shiny new interchange, which is good, with more work to make it better to come when the weather improves. It is nice that it was opened now instead of waiting until all the work was completed (there is still sign work, landscaping, and other things to be done).
Bruce in Blacksburg

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

[hbelkins]

Good video.  Did they finish all the final asphalt surfaces?  Looks like they did ... and that is good they were able to complete that in December rather than wait until spring.

It stayed mild enough to get most of the paving done to be able to open the new road and ramps. But it all isn't final yet, per an email from VDOT in response to my question about the 460 lanes shifting into the median.
"The lane shift on Route 460 to the median is temporary.  The Department still has milling and paving operations to be completed on Route 460 as well as all surface asphalt to be placed on the newly relocated Southgate Road.  This work will not happen until spring when temperatures are within specifications for paving and final line markings."
So we have a shiny new interchange, which is good, with more work to make it better to come when the weather improves. It is nice that it was opened now instead of waiting until all the work was completed (there is still sign work, landscaping, and other things to be done).
Bruce in Blacksburg

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

[Beltway]

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

What was the temperature?

[hbelkins]

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

What was the temperature?

Definitely below 40.

[froggie]

^ 32F at the Danville airport at the time per weather observation data.

[Beltway]

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

What was the temperature?

Definitely below 40.

Could you tell who was administering the project?  I see you did write, City of Danville.

[LM117]

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

What was the temperature?

Definitely below 40.

Could you tell who was administering the project?  I see you did write, City of Danville.

I believe the city is. Local news articles and the city's website mention repaving US-58 Business (Riverside Drive), as well as repaving US-29 Business (Central Boulevard) between Riverside Drive and Central Boulevard and there was no mention of VDOT whatsoever.

http://www.godanriver.com/news/danville/milling-paving-begins-on-central-boulevard-riverside-drive/article_d1faf740-dba9-11e7-afd2-4f20fadc6d7f.html

http://www.godanriver.com/news/road-work-to-delay-riverside/article_5a555494-d6f2-11e7-8640-df30958a37bf.html

https://www.danvilleva.gov/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=3360

I can also confirm what HB and froggie said about the temperature. I've been freezing my ass off here.

[Beltway]

That is good because normally the air temperature needs to be at least 40 degrees and rising before asphalt pavement will be placed.

Tell that to the City of Danville. They were repaving a section of Business US 58 last Friday morning around 8:30 a.m.

What was the temperature?

Definitely below 40.

Could you tell who was administering the project?  I see you did write, City of Danville.

I believe the city is. Local news articles and the city's website mention repaving US-58 Business (Riverside Drive), as well as repaving US-29 Business (Central Boulevard) between Riverside Drive and Central Boulevard and there was no mention of VDOT whatsoever.
[...]
I can also confirm what HB and froggie said about the temperature. I've been freezing my ass off here.

The "Construction Inspector's Bible" has clarification, what I said above is not exactly true, at least in the case of VDOT specs.  The base that the asphalt course is being placed on, needs to be at least 40 degrees F.  The air temp could be lower than that.

315.04–Placement Limitations

The Contractor shall not place asphalt concrete mixtures when weather or surface conditions are such
that the material cannot be properly handled, finished, or compacted. The surface upon which asphalt
mixtures is to be placed shall be free of standing water, dirt, and mud and the base temperature shall
conform to the following:

(a) Asphalt Concrete Produced with Warm Mix Asphalt Additives or Processes:
1. When the base temperature is 40 degrees F and above: The Engineer will permit laydown
at any temperature below the maximum limits given in Section 211.08.
2. When the mixture temperature is below 200 degrees F: The Contractor will not be
allowed to place the material.

(b) Asphalt Concrete Produced without Warm Mix Asphalt Additives or Processes:
1. When the base temperature is above 80 degrees F: The Engineer will allow laydown of
the mixture at any temperature conforming to the limits specified in Section 211.
2. When the base temperature is between 40 degrees F and 80 degrees F: The Contractor
shall use the Nomograph, Table III-2, to determine the minimum laydown temperature of
the asphalt concrete mixes. At no time shall the base temperature for base (BM) and intermediate
(IM) mixes be less than 40 degrees F. At no time shall the laydown temperature
for base (BM) and intermediate (IM) mixes be less than 250 degrees F.

2016 VDOT Road and Bridge Specifications
http://www.virginiadot.org/business/resources/const/VDOT_2016_RB_Specs.pdf