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Regional Boards => Mid-South => Topic started by: CoreySamson on January 03, 2021, 12:54:08 AM

Title: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: CoreySamson on January 03, 2021, 12:54:08 AM
The case for Memphis:
-Possible earthquakes mean a newer bridge is safer
-The 270 degree cloverleaf at Crump and I-55 is a problem

The case for Baton Rouge:
-Both bridges are old
-Traffic is a nightmare on the I-10 bridge

I say Baton Rouge, but interested to see what others think.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: kenarmy on January 03, 2021, 01:15:39 AM
 I'd say Memphis because it's more narrow and it's not interstate standard. And the 270 turn is dangerous.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 03, 2021, 12:37:49 PM
Baton Rouge is planning on getting a new bridge as a bypass, near Addis.  Unfortunately, it won't be a freeway bridge, but an arterial crossing.

It is possible that if funding is found for the Baton Rouge Toll Bypass, a new bridge will be built to replace the Airline Highway/US 190 bridge, as that road will probably be converted to full Interstate standards. I still hope they can use the old bridge for pedestrians and bikes, though.

Memphis, though, needs the bridge much more than BTR does. Current I-55 through Crump Boulevard is a nightmare, and a southern crossing tying into I-69 would really help in relief.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 03, 2021, 12:43:03 PM
While both are deserving of a new bridge or at least replacement of an existing bridge, I voted for Memphis.  Baton Rouge appears to have the LA 10 bridge available  as a distant alternate, while it looks like Memphis has a much longer trip to get to either the US 49 or I-155 bridges.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 03, 2021, 01:52:29 PM
Plans are in the works to fix the Crump Blvd interchange. But the old I-55 bridge over the Mississippi River is a major problem with no replacement in sight.

The Hernando de Soto bridge (I-40) in Memphis and the Horace Wilkinson bridge (I-10) in Baton Rouge both have somewhat similar designs. The road decks are 3 lanes each way, but with no shoulders.

Only a couple or so Mississippi River bridges South of St Louis have sufficiently wide road decks with shoulders. Most are aging. I think Memphis has the more precarious situation since I-40 has no alternative bridges of good, modern quality nearby. The I-55 bridge is considerably worse. The next nearest crossing is in Helena and that skinny old bridge isn't any better. You have to go clear up to the I-155 bridge near Dyersburg for something truly acceptable.

Baton Rouge doesn't have many alternative bridge crossings. The Huey P. Long-O.K. Allen bridge (US-190) in Baton Rouge is really old. But the John James Audubon Bridge (LA-10) is fairly new and just a little ways farther up river.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Life in Paradise on January 03, 2021, 02:28:37 PM
You also have the crossing from KY to IL to MO at Cairo, IL that is planning to be replaced, and what appears to be pipe dream of the Great River Crossing maybe 20 miles north of Greenville, MS.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: capt.ron on January 03, 2021, 02:31:28 PM
I'd say Memphis because it's more narrow and it's not interstate standard. And the 270 turn is dangerous.
I'm surprised to this day that it ever got Interstate status to begin with! That bridge was made originally for a 4 lane divided highway a good while before the Interstate system came to be. It is downright claustrophobic to be on and then once you cross it heading into Memphis, you're greeted with a sharp left curve, RIRO slip lanes, and a super tight cloverleaf that has been obsolete since the early 1970's.  And of course, going the other way, you have to navigate the super tight 270 degree ramp.
The sooner they modernize that interchange, the better.
And getting onto the subject of additional bridges...I'd say build two but first build the southern bridge which lines up with I-269 / 69 and build an extension of I-69 to connect from its self exit from MS 304 westward and then hook up towards I-40 in AR. The bridge would be built as 8 lanes since I anticipate the traffic to grow quite a bit. That may require a widening of existing I-69 and I-269 from the proposed bridge over to US 78.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: I-39 on January 03, 2021, 03:03:52 PM
Both badly need to be replaced. In fact, any bridge that is not wide enough for full shoulders on both sides is too old and needs to be replaced. We have way too many interstate bridges in this country that are not up to modern standards.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: I-39 on January 03, 2021, 03:06:32 PM
I'd say Memphis because it's more narrow and it's not interstate standard. And the 270 turn is dangerous.
I'm surprised to this day that it ever got Interstate status to begin with! That bridge was made originally for a 4 lane divided highway a good while before the Interstate system came to be. It is downright claustrophobic to be on and then once you cross it heading into Memphis, you're greeted with a sharp left curve, RIRO slip lanes, and a super tight cloverleaf that has been obsolete since the early 1970's.  And of course, going the other way, you have to navigate the super tight 270 degree ramp.
The sooner they modernize that interchange, the better.
And getting onto the subject of additional bridges...I'd say build two but first build the southern bridge which lines up with I-269 / 69 and build an extension of I-69 to connect from its self exit from MS 304 westward and then hook up towards I-40 in AR. The bridge would be built as 8 lanes since I anticipate the traffic to grow quite a bit. That may require a widening of existing I-69 and I-269 from the proposed bridge over to US 78.

What would be the feasibility of decommissioning that stretch of I-55 and rerouting it onto the I-40/69 combo, then building a massive new bridge to replace the Hernando de Soto bridge to accommodate the increased traffic?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 03, 2021, 03:12:15 PM
I don't think routing I-55 onto I-40 is a good idea. Existing I-40 and I-240 near downtown Memphis is only 3 lanes in each direction. Doing any expansion in that area would be difficult and controversial. The existing I-55 bridge simply needs to be replaced by a new bridge in the same location. The project to overhaul the Crump Blvd interchange will set the stage for a bridge replacement.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: I-39 on January 03, 2021, 06:43:59 PM
I don't think routing I-55 onto I-40 is a good idea. Existing I-40 and I-240 near downtown Memphis is only 3 lanes in each direction. Doing any expansion in that area would be difficult and controversial. The existing I-55 bridge simply needs to be replaced by a new bridge in the same location. The project to overhaul the Crump Blvd interchange will set the stage for a bridge replacement.

Has the Crump Blvd redo been delayed?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 03, 2021, 10:34:09 PM
Yes, the Crump Boulevard Interchange upgrade has been delayed indefinitely.

Baton Rouge needs a new bridge more.

No, the bridges proposed for Baton Rouge are not to be on arterials. The proposed loop would be:  2.5.1. Design Standards
In order to provide the highest level of service, the Baton Rouge Loop would be
designed as a controlled access free-flow facility. It would meet the freeway
guidelines set forth by the American Association of State Highway and
Transportation Officials (AASHTO) with consideration given to design standards
established by the LADOTD. These criteria provide a summary of methodology and
standards used in the preliminary construction cost estimates. As design
progresses, adjustments approved by FHWA and LADOTD can be made to meet
LADOTD and AASHTO design standard preferences / guidelines.
The design standards proposed for the Project are shown in Table 2.2 and are
primarily based on AASHTO’s 2011 publications, A Policy on Geometric Design of
Highways and Streets, and Roadside Design Guide with consideration given to
LADOTD Design Standards for Freeways (2009). The table includes criteria for
urban and rural sections, as both will be utilized along the route
  per: http://wwwsp.dotd.la.gov/Inside_LaDOTD/Divisions/Engineering/Environmental/Documents/H.005201%20(H.008732)%20Baton%20Rouge%20Loop/01_Baton%20Rouge%20Loop%20Tier%201%20FEIS%20Volume%201.pdf

I really don't think any bridge(s) along the Arkansas /Mississippi / Tennessee portion of the river are dependent on what happens in greater Baton Rouge.  IN spite of national priorities, Louisiana will build one or both bridges within the next fifteen years or less.

A new Memphis area bridge depends more on if the Great River Bridge is built than anything in Louisiana.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: I-39 on January 04, 2021, 10:37:55 AM
Yes, the Crump Boulevard Interchange upgrade has been delayed indefinitely.

This is a problem, but maybe they should lump this project in with a new bridge.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 04, 2021, 12:46:17 PM
Yes, the Crump Boulevard Interchange upgrade has been delayed indefinitely.

This is a problem, but maybe they should lump this project in with a new bridge.

While there is lots of talk about Earthquake resilience, in spite of the faults in mid-America, it is not viewed as LIKELY to happen like an earthquake in California, Japan, or even Alaska.  Capacity is the real issue for the Memphis and Arkansas Bridge. While I think it is ill suited for interstate highway traffic, it is still a viable bridge for the foreseeable future.  I-55 should probably be routed farther south ( a Tunica Resorts area crossing as I have discussed ad nauseum would fit that.) It probably would still befitting the route to give the existing bridge and the part of I-55 that is bypassed a 3DI number.  The Crump Avenue Interchange would STILL need to be reworked but perhaps less so.  It still would need to be revamped if it were the made to be the intersection of US-79 and US-61.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 05, 2021, 02:54:27 PM
Yes, the Crump Boulevard Interchange upgrade has been delayed indefinitely.

Baton Rouge needs a new bridge more.

No, the bridges proposed for Baton Rouge are not to be on arterials. The proposed loop would be:  2.5.1. Design Standards
In order to provide the highest level of service, the Baton Rouge Loop would be
designed as a controlled access free-flow facility. It would meet the freeway
guidelines set forth by the American Association of State Highway and
Transportation Officials (AASHTO) with consideration given to design standards
established by the LADOTD. These criteria provide a summary of methodology and
standards used in the preliminary construction cost estimates. As design
progresses, adjustments approved by FHWA and LADOTD can be made to meet
LADOTD and AASHTO design standard preferences / guidelines.
The design standards proposed for the Project are shown in Table 2.2 and are
primarily based on AASHTO’s 2011 publications, A Policy on Geometric Design of
Highways and Streets, and Roadside Design Guide with consideration given to
LADOTD Design Standards for Freeways (2009). The table includes criteria for
urban and rural sections, as both will be utilized along the route
  per: http://wwwsp.dotd.la.gov/Inside_LaDOTD/Divisions/Engineering/Environmental/Documents/H.005201%20(H.008732)%20Baton%20Rouge%20Loop/01_Baton%20Rouge%20Loop%20Tier%201%20FEIS%20Volume%201.pdf

I really don't think any bridge(s) along the Arkansas /Mississippi / Tennessee portion of the river are dependent on what happens in greater Baton Rouge.  IN spite of national priorities, Louisiana will build one or both bridges within the next fifteen years or less.

A new Memphis area bridge depends more on if the Great River Bridge is built than anything in Louisiana.

The proposed Baton Rouge Toll Loop bridges would indeed be Interstate freeway grade.

The currently proposed south crossing of the Mississippi River near Addis, however, would be a 4-lane arterial connecting surface roads, not a freeway. Though, it's possible that they build it with future upgradeablity.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 05, 2021, 04:42:59 PM
Quote

The proposed Baton Rouge Toll Loop bridges would indeed be Interstate freeway grade.

The currently proposed south crossing of the Mississippi River near Addis, however, would be a 4-lane arterial connecting surface roads, not a freeway. Though, it's possible that they build it with future upgradeablity.

The whole project becomes less and less.  Yes the bridge will at least initially be connected to LA-30 on the east bank. It will probably be connected to LA-1 on the west side. There is lots of debate as to where the bridge  is going to be (still 5 differing corridors) with 5 or more groups of patrons (for each).  Proposed is the point. I think it is still proposed to be a six or eight lane bridge CONNECTING to 4-lane arterial. LA-30 on the east bank is two lanes with ROW for 4-lanes. Part of the problem is the folks in Baton Rouge do not want the huge traffic volume dropped onto their neighborhoods.  LA-1 might handle the traffic. I am not sure that even if you widen LA-30 to 4-lane arterial that it can handle the traffic. If you connect the bridge directly to I-10 via freeway connector, then LA-1 will get more swamped than it already is.  Building this bridge without freeway connections to I-10 on both sides of the river is just a new traffic jam waiting to happen. Either that or is is like the Gramercy bridge and has virtually no traffic except for some VERY local traffic because there is no real route of egress.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: hbelkins on January 05, 2021, 05:59:59 PM
You also have the crossing from KY to IL to MO at Cairo, IL that is planning to be replaced, and what appears to be pipe dream of the Great River Crossing maybe 20 miles north of Greenville, MS.

You may see a new Ohio River crossing for US 51/60/62 between Kentucky and Illinois, but it's doubtful that there will ever be a direct Kentucky/Missouri crossing of the Mississippi. I also doubt the US 60/62 bridge between Illinois and Missouri will be replaced, since you can see the I-57 bridge from it.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 06, 2021, 09:32:38 AM
Quote

The proposed Baton Rouge Toll Loop bridges would indeed be Interstate freeway grade.

The currently proposed south crossing of the Mississippi River near Addis, however, would be a 4-lane arterial connecting surface roads, not a freeway. Though, it's possible that they build it with future upgradeablity.

The whole project becomes less and less.  Yes the bridge will at least initially be connected to LA-30 on the east bank. It will probably be connected to LA-1 on the west side. There is lots of debate as to where the bridge  is going to be (still 5 differing corridors) with 5 or more groups of patrons (for each).  Proposed is the point. I think it is still proposed to be a six or eight lane bridge CONNECTING to 4-lane arterial. LA-30 on the east bank is two lanes with ROW for 4-lanes. Part of the problem is the folks in Baton Rouge do not want the huge traffic volume dropped onto their neighborhoods.  LA-1 might handle the traffic. I am not sure that even if you widen LA-30 to 4-lane arterial that it can handle the traffic. If you connect the bridge directly to I-10 via freeway connector, then LA-1 will get more swamped than it already is.  Building this bridge without freeway connections to I-10 on both sides of the river is just a new traffic jam waiting to happen. Either that or is is like the Gramercy bridge and has virtually no traffic except for some VERY local traffic because there is no real route of egress.

From what I know, and I can be wrong as usual, the plan is to connect the south Mississippi River bridge to the proposed extension of LA 415 from its current interchange with I-10 near Lobdell west of Port Allen. That would produce at least a divided 4-lane bypass route from I-10 west of Baton Rouge to near Gardere, where apparently LA 30 would take it the rest of the way to I-10 near Gonzales.

Not nearly ideal, since I'd prefer a full freeway bypass, but nothing says that this couldn't be upgraded in the future or incorporated into the larger BTR Loop bypass.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 06, 2021, 06:28:17 PM
Quote

The proposed Baton Rouge Toll Loop bridges would indeed be Interstate freeway grade.

The currently proposed south crossing of the Mississippi River near Addis, however, would be a 4-lane arterial connecting surface roads, not a freeway. Though, it's possible that they build it with future upgradeablity.

The whole project becomes less and less.  Yes the bridge will at least initially be connected to LA-30 on the east bank. It will probably be connected to LA-1 on the west side. There is lots of debate as to where the bridge  is going to be (still 5 differing corridors) with 5 or more groups of patrons (for each).  Proposed is the point. I think it is still proposed to be a six or eight lane bridge CONNECTING to 4-lane arterial. LA-30 on the east bank is two lanes with ROW for 4-lanes. Part of the problem is the folks in Baton Rouge do not want the huge traffic volume dropped onto their neighborhoods.  LA-1 might handle the traffic. I am not sure that even if you widen LA-30 to 4-lane arterial that it can handle the traffic. If you connect the bridge directly to I-10 via freeway connector, then LA-1 will get more swamped than it already is.  Building this bridge without freeway connections to I-10 on both sides of the river is just a new traffic jam waiting to happen. Either that or is is like the Gramercy bridge and has virtually no traffic except for some VERY local traffic because there is no real route of egress.

From what I know, and I can be wrong as usual, the plan is to connect the south Mississippi River bridge to the proposed extension of LA 415 from its current interchange with I-10 near Lobdell west of Port Allen. That would produce at least a divided 4-lane bypass route from I-10 west of Baton Rouge to near Gardere, where apparently LA 30 would take it the rest of the way to I-10 near Gonzales.

Not nearly ideal, since I'd prefer a full freeway bypass, but nothing says that this couldn't be upgraded in the future or incorporated into the larger BTR Loop bypass.

https://www.wafb.com/2019/03/28/dotd-eyeing-locations-possible-new-bridge-baton-rouge-area/    Sums it up.  The LA-415 / LA-1 connector project will only complicate it. It will enable far more traffic onto HWY 1. Without the infrastructure on both sides of the river, a new bridge is not a lot of help.  They will figure out how to build it.   There is still lots more questions not fewer.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: rte66man on January 06, 2021, 06:54:51 PM
I'd say Memphis because it's more narrow and it's not interstate standard. And the 270 turn is dangerous.
I'm surprised to this day that it ever got Interstate status to begin with! That bridge was made originally for a 4 lane divided highway a good while before the Interstate system came to be. It is downright claustrophobic to be on and then once you cross it heading into Memphis, you're greeted with a sharp left curve, RIRO slip lanes, and a super tight cloverleaf that has been obsolete since the early 1970's.  And of course, going the other way, you have to navigate the super tight 270 degree ramp.

There are others who can speak to this better, but I know the original plans were for a freeway connection north along Riverside Drive past I-40. That would have entailed a real interchange with EH Crump.  Thankfully that freeway got scrapped.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 09, 2021, 02:55:11 PM
I'd say Memphis because it's more narrow and it's not interstate standard. And the 270 turn is dangerous.
I'm surprised to this day that it ever got Interstate status to begin with! That bridge was made originally for a 4 lane divided highway a good while before the Interstate system came to be. It is downright claustrophobic to be on and then once you cross it heading into Memphis, you're greeted with a sharp left curve, RIRO slip lanes, and a super tight cloverleaf that has been obsolete since the early 1970's.  And of course, going the other way, you have to navigate the super tight 270 degree ramp.


It was grandfathered. Regardless the Crump interchange needs redone. If I-55 WERE to be re-routed to a new bridge, Perhaps US-78 (Crump Avenue) would be the through route and a more simple intersection would be in order.

There are others who can speak to this better, but I know the original plans were for a freeway connection north along Riverside Drive past I-40. That would have entailed a real interchange with EH Crump.  Thankfully that freeway got scrapped.

There were lots of Freeways not built back then. Some because of public resistance, some because the routing just was too expensive, others because the priorities were listed as lower. Some were dropped because they were added as a pipedream. I add pipedreams on here some of them even make sense.   I-240 (Now I-69) was a better crosstown connector.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: I-39 on January 10, 2021, 09:17:42 AM
So why aren’t there any specific plans for replacing the I-55 bridge?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Revive 755 on January 10, 2021, 12:50:15 PM
There are others who can speak to this better, but I know the original plans were for a freeway connection north along Riverside Drive past I-40. That would have entailed a real interchange with EH Crump.  Thankfully that freeway got scrapped.

I don't know about a "real interchange with EH Crump" - they may have just kept the original cloverleaf, though with better acceleration/deceleration lanes on the north leg.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Brooks on January 10, 2021, 02:52:30 PM
So why aren’t there any specific plans for replacing the I-55 bridge?
A project of this size would almost certainly need large scale federal investment to proceed. TDOT/ArDot would not be able to pay for this project themselves. Plus you have the constant neglect of Memphis by the TN government that has continued for several decades.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: on_wisconsin on January 10, 2021, 02:59:29 PM
The Black Hawk Bridge in Lansing, Iowa:
(http://wisconsinaerial.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Lansing-1-of-1-1024x683.jpg)
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Road Hog on January 21, 2021, 07:44:15 PM
The upper Mississippi is completely uncomparable to the lower Mississippi south of St Louis. 
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 22, 2021, 11:22:17 AM
The upper Mississippi is completely uncomparable to the lower Mississippi south of St Louis.

The Ohio is the larger of the two North of their confluence.  People who are not familiar with both might not grasp that. In downtown Minneapolis, the Mississippi is smaller than the Red River at Shreveport.  Even at St Louis, it is smaller than the Ohio at Louisville.  The Lower Mississippi is yet a big step up from that.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: codyg1985 on January 22, 2021, 12:19:46 PM
I voted for Memphis, but both cities could stand to have an additional crossing. Unfortunately, for Memphis, the next closest crossing on either end of Memphis is many miles away with those being US 49 and I-155. I'd love to see I-269 extended along current I-69 in Mississippi then across a new Mississippi River bridge to connect with I-40 and maybe even I-55 or I-555 in Arkansas.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: kenarmy on January 22, 2021, 08:07:01 PM
I voted for Memphis, but both cities could stand to have an additional crossing. Unfortunately, for Memphis, the next closest crossing on either end of Memphis is many miles away with those being US 49 and I-155. I'd love to see I-269 extended along current I-69 in Mississippi then across a new Mississippi River bridge to connect with I-40 and maybe even I-55 or I-555 in Arkansas.

Shouldn't 69 be the one crossing a new bridge instead of it going back south, then north-west, then west using the 49 bridge into Arkansas? 22 is the one that should be extended along 269 to connect with 40.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 23, 2021, 12:37:26 AM
I voted for Memphis, but both cities could stand to have an additional crossing. Unfortunately, for Memphis, the next closest crossing on either end of Memphis is many miles away with those being US 49 and I-155. I'd love to see I-269 extended along current I-69 in Mississippi then across a new Mississippi River bridge to connect with I-40 and maybe even I-55 or I-555 in Arkansas.

Shouldn't 69 be the one crossing a new bridge instead of it going back south, then north-west, then west using the 49 bridge into Arkansas? The rest of the route should be another number.

I-69 and  a reroute of I-55 would be a good fit for a bridge in NW Mississippi.   I-240 would be a good fit as well.  As to freeway bridges  the US-49 Helena Bridge is not any part of the discussion. It is close to if not the worst and poorest capacity bridge on the lower Mississippi.  It is a narrow 2-lane bridge. Not suitable for anything but a rural river crossing on roads that amount to arterials (in spite of the US-49 moniker.) There is no scenario that makes sense for I-69 to cross the Arkansas and White rivers (separately) then almost immediately cross the Mississippi river at Helena, even on a new bridge.

Per the official line, I-69 is supposed to cross about 40 miles south of Helena on a new bridge that crosses between two very rural areas. The Mississippi portion would run parallel and redundant to I-55 or would run concurrently with I-55 defeating the quest for added capacity from South Texas to points north of Memphis.

I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse, but the bridge should be pretty much even with the Tunica Resorts. I-69 should come in from the south and the re-routed I-55 should go north.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: kenarmy on January 23, 2021, 01:11:21 AM
I voted for Memphis, but both cities could stand to have an additional crossing. Unfortunately, for Memphis, the next closest crossing on either end of Memphis is many miles away with those being US 49 and I-155. I'd love to see I-269 extended along current I-69 in Mississippi then across a new Mississippi River bridge to connect with I-40 and maybe even I-55 or I-555 in Arkansas.

Shouldn't 69 be the one crossing a new bridge instead of it going back south, then north-west, then west using the 49 bridge into Arkansas? The rest of the route should be another number.

I-69 and  a reroute of I-55 would be a good fit for a bridge in NW Mississippi.   I-240 would be a good fit as well.  As to freeway bridges  the US-49 Helena Bridge is not any part of the discussion. It is close to if not the worst and poorest capacity bridge on the lower Mississippi.  It is a narrow 2-lane bridge. Not suitable for anything but a rural river crossing on roads that amount to arterials (in spite of the US-49 moniker.) There is no scenario that makes sense for I-69 to cross the Arkansas and White rivers (separately) then almost immediately cross the Mississippi river at Helena, even on a new bridge.

Per the official line, I-69 is supposed to cross about 40 miles south of Helena on a new bridge that crosses between two very rural areas. The Mississippi portion would run parallel and redundant to I-55 or would run concurrently with I-55 defeating the quest for added capacity from South Texas to points north of Memphis.

I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse, but the bridge should be pretty much even with the Tunica Resorts. I-69 should come in from the south and the re-routed I-55 should go north.
I read that the Helena bridge was supposed to be upgraded for 69..  :confused: But anyway, I agree, it should get out of MS near the resorts because south of there it isn't needed in the state at all. And I also support this idea because 49 is one of the few routes that doesn't overlap with an interstate for over 10 miles (its overlap with 20/220 is right at 10 miles). But the proposed bridge would still be very useful and would get rid of 278's multiple overlaps just to align with itself again. Now you have a win-win-win.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: ilpt4u on January 23, 2021, 06:53:55 AM
The upper Mississippi is completely uncomparable to the lower Mississippi south of St Louis.
Could be because the Illinois and Missouri Rivers confluences with the Mississippi River near Alton, IL/just north of St Louis, and then the Ohio River confluence is not much downriver at Cairo, IL/the IL/MO/KY tri-point. That helps make the Mississippi get bigger, quicker, as it transitions from the Upper Mississippi to the Lower

Of course, with the various Locks and Dams along the Mississippi, Missouri, Illinois, Ohio, Tennessee, etc, the volume of the rivers flowing into the Mississippi onto New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico is at least somewhat regulated
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 23, 2021, 02:40:59 PM

 I read that the Helena bridge was supposed to be upgraded for 69..  :confused: But anyway, I agree, it should get out of MS near the resorts because south of there it isn't needed in the state at all. And I also support this idea because 49 is one of the few routes that doesn't overlap with an interstate for over 10 miles (its overlap with 20/220 is right at 10 miles). But the proposed bridge would still be very useful and would get rid of 278's multiple overlaps just to align with itself again. Now you have a win-win-win.

There is no official I-49 overlap in Shreveport. There are some suggested routings not all of which include either / both of the other interstates. I-49 Intercity Connector is still PROBABLY going to get built. It is just going slowly.

Unless the US-49 bridge at Helena is a navigation hazard like the Benjamin Humphries (old Greenville) bridge it should remain there for local and intraregional traffic and any new freeway bridge(s) should be built farther north if is going north of the White and Arkansas Rivers or if that cannot be managed either use the Greenville Bridge or the proposed Great River Bridge.

Yes the local officials in Helena-West Helena are advocating for a new four lane bridge. It is an almost purely local initiative. https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/sep/07/four-lane-bridge-seen-as-path-to-progress-in-us/. The article points out that the reasons the Humphries bridge was replaced does not apply in the case of US-49.

From a crossings perspective, the new Greenville Bridge should have been built North of Greenville and the Humphries Bridge should have been left in place and been used as a local / intraregional crossing. The problem was the USACE viewed the Humphries as a navigation hazard. The new bridge was built in the closest downstream location that mitigated the effects of the river curve for traffic navigating under it.   That does not apply to the US-49 bridge.  Leave that one in place and build any new bridge closer to Memphis.

My point against the proposed bridge near Arkansas City is that it is a case of local officials having regional / national sway got a bridge proposal past the "I want it" stage. The Arkansas power broker(then speaker of the Arkansas House / now  Chairman of the state Transportation Commission) and the Mississippi power broker (then US Senate Majority Leader ) got the bridge proposed directly between their home towns. 

In my opinion, the best (and and admittedly more expensive route) is following US-79 more or less from Haynesville LA to Camden Ar then to Pine Bluff then probably a fairly direct route to a crossing near Hughes AR.  As an alternative, a more direct routing cross country from ElDorado might be less expensive, but will curry little or no local favor and little support in Little Rock.  The freeway crossings of both the Arkansas and White rivers combined might be as expensive as second bridge across the Mississippi.

After that, my opinion is a virtually east / west route from around ElDorado to the existing US-82 bridge.  Even with the crossing near Arkansas City on the proposed new bridge, there is a significant east / west portion and a small backward n/s leg.

I am going to add one additional caveat. US-278 replaced most of AR-4 decades ago. In the thirties (maybe later) there was a ferry from near Arkansas City Ar to near Scott MS on HWY 4.  The roads US-278 truncated used to cross the river here. For the locals it is just a restoration of a lost crossing.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 10, 2022, 10:26:31 PM


It is possible that if funding is found for the Baton Rouge Toll Bypass, a new bridge will be built to replace the Airline Highway/US 190 bridge, as that road will probably be converted to full Interstate standards. I still hope they can use the old bridge for pedestrians and bikes, though.


The US-190 bridge gets to stay because of the railroad bridge in the middle.  I doubt it will get the Jefferson parish Long bridge treatment, but it will probably remain open to at least local traffic even if there is a new freeway bridge built farther north.

As a somwhat aside; does anyone know what the justification for building the Audubon Bridge was?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Wayward Memphian on January 11, 2022, 03:17:05 PM
Taking size north of the Confluence begs the question of which is really the tributary :bigass:

The Mayor of Memphis has asked Gov Lee to make a new bridge a long term goal.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 11, 2022, 03:45:49 PM
Yes, the Crump Boulevard Interchange upgrade has been delayed indefinitely.

Baton Rouge needs a new bridge more.

No, the bridges proposed for Baton Rouge are not to be on arterials. The proposed loop would be:  2.5.1. Design Standards
In order to provide the highest level of service, the Baton Rouge Loop would be
designed as a controlled access free-flow facility. It would meet the freeway
guidelines set forth by the American Association of State Highway and
Transportation Officials (AASHTO) with consideration given to design standards
established by the LADOTD. These criteria provide a summary of methodology and
standards used in the preliminary construction cost estimates. As design
progresses, adjustments approved by FHWA and LADOTD can be made to meet
LADOTD and AASHTO design standard preferences / guidelines.
The design standards proposed for the Project are shown in Table 2.2 and are
primarily based on AASHTO’s 2011 publications, A Policy on Geometric Design of
Highways and Streets, and Roadside Design Guide with consideration given to
LADOTD Design Standards for Freeways (2009). The table includes criteria for
urban and rural sections, as both will be utilized along the route
  per: http://wwwsp.dotd.la.gov/Inside_LaDOTD/Divisions/Engineering/Environmental/Documents/H.005201%20(H.008732)%20Baton%20Rouge%20Loop/01_Baton%20Rouge%20Loop%20Tier%201%20FEIS%20Volume%201.pdf

[...]

That's actually for the proposed Baton Rouge Toll Loop, which is a separate project.

The current project for the Addis crossing of the Mississippi River is tied to an arterial extension of LA 415 from I-10 to LA 1, then extending east across the bridge to hook up with LA 30 near Gardere. As it stands, this would be a 4-land divided arterial, not a freeway.

If the "Old Bridge" on US 190 is upgraded, they could do something like they did with the Huey P. Long in NOLA and simply strengthen the existing trusses and widen the existing roadways to 3 lanes with proper shoulders. They could also simply build a separate single span for the highway portion and either tear down the existing highway portion or convert it for pedestrian and bike usage, or just tear it down completely.

There arises an issue, however, with the eastern approach: there's an underpass where the Baton Rouge Southern (ex KCS) rail line crosses over the US 190 mainline, and then there is an at-grade crossing of the CN (ex-IC) rail line where there's also an intersection with an access road to the aluminum plant. Monte Sano Avenue, which parallels US 190, also crosses the CN line there as well. How they are going to get a freeway/tollway through that towards the Scenic Highway interchange (a scrunched cloverleaf) is going to be interesting.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 12, 2022, 01:38:25 PM

If the "Old Bridge" on US 190 is upgraded, they could do something like they did with the Huey P. Long in NOLA and simply strengthen the existing trusses and widen the existing roadways to 3 lanes with proper shoulders. They could also simply build a separate single span for the highway portion and either tear down the existing highway portion or convert it for pedestrian and bike usage, or just tear it down completely.

There arises an issue, however, with the eastern approach: there's an underpass where the Baton Rouge Southern (ex KCS) rail line crosses over the US 190 mainline, and then there is an at-grade crossing of the CN (ex-IC) rail line where there's also an intersection with an access road to the aluminum plant. Monte Sano Avenue, which parallels US 190, also crosses the CN line there as well. How they are going to get a freeway/tollway through that towards the Scenic Highway interchange (a scrunched cloverleaf) is going to be interesting.


If one could take a time machine back 60-70 years, one wonders how Louisiana/Baton Rouge would have dealt with that if the original I-410 would have been built.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: SkyPesos on January 12, 2022, 01:43:48 PM
St Louis

…says no one ever
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 12, 2022, 02:11:21 PM

If the "Old Bridge" on US 190 is upgraded, they could do something like they did with the Huey P. Long in NOLA and simply strengthen the existing trusses and widen the existing roadways to 3 lanes with proper shoulders. They could also simply build a separate single span for the highway portion and either tear down the existing highway portion or convert it for pedestrian and bike usage, or just tear it down completely.

There arises an issue, however, with the eastern approach: there's an underpass where the Baton Rouge Southern (ex KCS) rail line crosses over the US 190 mainline, and then there is an at-grade crossing of the CN (ex-IC) rail line where there's also an intersection with an access road to the aluminum plant. Monte Sano Avenue, which parallels US 190, also crosses the CN line there as well. How they are going to get a freeway/tollway through that towards the Scenic Highway interchange (a scrunched cloverleaf) is going to be interesting.


If one could take a time machine back 60-70 years, one wonders how Louisiana/Baton Rouge would have dealt with that if the original I-410 would have been built.

Yeah, about that original I-410 proposal....wasn't that to use what is now I-110 through downtown to Airline Highway, then double back using the US 190 bridge and then LA 1 or a new corridor just west of there?

Also....I thought that 410 was also the number that was proposed for the Dixie Highway bypass of greater New Orleans? (Of which I-310 and I-510 were its offshoots.)
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 12, 2022, 02:30:25 PM


It is possible that if funding is found for the Baton Rouge Toll Bypass, a new bridge will be built to replace the Airline Highway/US 190 bridge, as that road will probably be converted to full Interstate standards. I still hope they can use the old bridge for pedestrians and bikes, though.


The US-190 bridge gets to stay because of the railroad bridge in the middle.  I doubt it will get the Jefferson parish Long bridge treatment, but it will probably remain open to at least local traffic even if there is a new freeway bridge built farther north.

As a somwhat aside; does anyone know what the justification for building the Audubon Bridge was?


The main justification was to replace the ferry that served between New Roads and St. Francisville.

A secondary justification was a proposed 4-laned corridor called the Zachary Taylor Parkway, which would have used LA 1 and LA 10 to connect Alexandria with the Florida Parishes and Picayune, MS. That proposal never got off the planning stages.

The Audubon does serve as a nice cutoff connection between New Roads and Baton Rouge through its access of US 61 rather than having to slough through LA 1 to connect with US 190 west of Erwinville. So, there's that going for it.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 12, 2022, 03:42:25 PM


It is possible that if funding is found for the Baton Rouge Toll Bypass, a new bridge will be built to replace the Airline Highway/US 190 bridge, as that road will probably be converted to full Interstate standards. I still hope they can use the old bridge for pedestrians and bikes, though.


The US-190 bridge gets to stay because of the railroad bridge in the middle.  I doubt it will get the Jefferson parish Long bridge treatment, but it will probably remain open to at least local traffic even if there is a new freeway bridge built farther north.

As a somwhat aside; does anyone know what the justification for building the Audubon Bridge was?


The main justification was to replace the ferry that served between New Roads and St. Francisville.

A secondary justification was a proposed 4-laned corridor called the Zachary Taylor Parkway, which would have used LA 1 and LA 10 to connect Alexandria with the Florida Parishes and Picayune, MS. That proposal never got off the planning stages.

The Audubon does serve as a nice cutoff connection between New Roads and Baton Rouge through its access of US 61 rather than having to slough through LA 1 to connect with US 190 west of Erwinville. So, there's that going for it.

I knew the replacement for the ferry. I had never seen or heard anything about the proposed Zachary Taylor Parkway.

I guess my (and others') perception is that there are more bridges (many rural) south of Angola than the rest of the lower Mississippi  or even the Ohio river.  Actually the bridges are closer on that stretch than on the Sabine River in Texas.

If the ferry were ABSOLUTELY necessary then replacing it was probably prudent. I understand USACE wants ALL of the ferries out of the Mississippi.  I think the question is more should it have met the fate of the Edgard / Reserve Ferry as opposed to a bridge being built.  I wonder if the Corps paid part of it and the bridge cost LA little to nothing. (SO I understand there was Corps incentives to build the Greenville Bridge. )
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 12, 2022, 11:08:53 PM
I'm guessing that the proximity of the Hale Boggs (I-310) bridge near Luling and the construction of the Gramercy-Wallace bridge made a crossing at Reserve obsolete.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 12, 2022, 11:25:22 PM
I'm guessing that the proximity of the Hale Boggs (I-310) bridge near Luling and the construction of the Gramercy-Wallace bridge made a crossing at Reserve obsolete.

I wasn't talking about the reason the Edgard Ferry was closed. I was talking about the fact it was closed and not replaced.

My question I was suggesting we ponder is: "Is there a real need for a bridge at New Roads at all?"

Since it has been built, it is a moot point. It seems to me that the only real reason for it is anticipated growth in Pointe Coupee Parish or someone (with the ability to influence policy)  believing the bridge would create growth in Pointe Coupee Parish.

And in the case of Audubon, you have Riverbend & Big Cajun power plants (on either side of the bridge) they wanted to improve access to.

This doesn't seem like a viable escape route for the nuke and the Coal Fired Units don't need that. The amount of commuters would be around a couple hundred each if all of the employees of each lived on the opposite bank from their respective plant.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Hot Rod Hootenanny on January 13, 2022, 01:27:36 AM

If the "Old Bridge" on US 190 is upgraded, they could do something like they did with the Huey P. Long in NOLA and simply strengthen the existing trusses and widen the existing roadways to 3 lanes with proper shoulders. They could also simply build a separate single span for the highway portion and either tear down the existing highway portion or convert it for pedestrian and bike usage, or just tear it down completely.

There arises an issue, however, with the eastern approach: there's an underpass where the Baton Rouge Southern (ex KCS) rail line crosses over the US 190 mainline, and then there is an at-grade crossing of the CN (ex-IC) rail line where there's also an intersection with an access road to the aluminum plant. Monte Sano Avenue, which parallels US 190, also crosses the CN line there as well. How they are going to get a freeway/tollway through that towards the Scenic Highway interchange (a scrunched cloverleaf) is going to be interesting.


If one could take a time machine back 60-70 years, one wonders how Louisiana/Baton Rouge would have dealt with that if the original I-410 would have been built.

Yeah, about that original I-410 proposal....wasn't that to use what is now I-110 through downtown to Airline Highway, then double back using the US 190 bridge and then LA 1 or a new corridor just west of there?

Also....I thought that 410 was also the number that was proposed for the Dixie Highway bypass of greater New Orleans? (Of which I-310 and I-510 were its offshoots.)


Something like that...
(Thought I had a better scan of the Baton Rouge inset, in the lower right corner)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4645/27659655409_f6f4136a3a_o.jpg)
la_rand_62 (https://flic.kr/p/J9bXUv)
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Tom958 on January 13, 2022, 05:57:49 AM
Both plus Mobile. Our society needs to figure out how to build things that need to be built.

Also, both the I-10 and the I-55 bridges need to be replaced or thoroughly reconstructed in situ, with crossings on new location serving as detours while the existing bridges are closed.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Avalanchez71 on January 13, 2022, 07:43:43 AM
How about supplemental ferry service?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 13, 2022, 08:27:06 AM
Both plus Mobile. Our society needs to figure out how to build things that need to be built.

Also, both the I-10 and the I-55 bridges need to be replaced or thoroughly reconstructed in situ, with crossings on new location serving as detours while the existing bridges are closed.

Reconstruction does nothing for capacity. In both cases a new bridge in a different location would allow for relief routes to be built which would provide the needed relief as well as increase redundancy if there were an issue.

As to fracture critical truss bridges, complete failures have been related to overloading (I-35W Construction materials and stopped rush-hour traffic) and I-5 High Speed Collision with the truss. The damage to the Bay Bridge in the World Series Earthquake was minimal compared to concrete stringer construction failure on the Embarcadero and other freeways in SF.

I am not suggesting either the M&A or the  HWB are in perfect condition, they aren't. But a new bridge downstream, in both cases, will help more than replacing the existing bridges.  As to needed bridges along I-10 Lake Charles is pretty needy too.


Honestly for this debate, Baton Rouge needs an additional bridge (or two) more than Memphis needs even the first one, but Memphis does indeed need a new bridge as well.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: MikieTimT on January 13, 2022, 08:53:26 AM
Both plus Mobile. Our society needs to figure out how to build things that need to be built.

Also, both the I-10 and the I-55 bridges need to be replaced or thoroughly reconstructed in situ, with crossings on new location serving as detours while the existing bridges are closed.

Memphis needs an additional bridge.  I'd personally love one to carry I-22/I-269 across the river and connect to I-40 as a southern beltway/bypass for my own selfish needs, but a northern one to carry TN-385/I-269 over to I-55 would be beneficial as well to take traffic off the other 2 bridges.  The good news is that there's fixing to be plenty of locally sourced steel available when things get to the point of actual planning and funding.

https://talkbusiness.net/2022/01/u-s-steel-to-locate-3-billion-steel-mill-in-northeast-arkansas/[url]]]https://talkbusiness.net/2022/01/u-s-steel-to-locate-3-billion-steel-mill-in-northeast-arkansas/[url] (https://talkbusiness.net/2022/01/u-s-steel-to-locate-3-billion-steel-mill-in-northeast-arkansas/[url=http://)[/url]
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on January 13, 2022, 10:35:03 PM
If any more bridges are going to be built within BTR, it will have to be both through a south bypass bridge, which is in the planning stages, and upgrading the US 190 bridge by widening and freeway-izing the roadways, such as what was done with NOLA's Huey P. Long Bridge.

Widening or twin-spanning the I-10 Wilkerson Bridge is not going to happen, because that would require excessive ROW and expensive reconnections on both approaches, and completely reworking the LA 1/Port of West Baton Rouge interchange and the connections with Nicholson Drive/Highland Road/St. Peter Streets and the 10/110 Split interchange. Such a proposal was floated as part of the I-10 widening, along with an elevated double-deck segment, but that was quickly dismissed as excessively expensive and destructive.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Road Hog on January 14, 2022, 08:50:16 PM
Everyone up and down the river between Greenville and St. Louis is locked up over earthquake fears. That's the problem.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 14, 2022, 09:32:48 PM
The main problem is the ever-escalating cost of building bridges in the United States. We're literally pricing ourselves out of being able to build anything like that.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 15, 2022, 10:55:02 AM
The main problem is the ever-escalating cost of building bridges in the United States. We're literally pricing ourselves out of being able to build anything like that.

 For sure the engineering costs have escalated exponentially.  Is it the construction cost or engineering costs? Have the construction costs themselves ballooned similarly?
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: bwana39 on January 15, 2022, 12:29:46 PM
Everyone up and down the river between Greenville and St. Louis is locked up over earthquake fears. That's the problem.

I think if this ever happens, the big bridges will be the least of the worries, It will be the small bridges, approaches, and overpasses that fail. No, they will not all fail, but when liquefaction of the soil occurs,  these stringer bridges may meet the same fate as the Embarcadero Freeway.  In that scenario buckling pavement on surface roads (including freeway lanes) would be devastating by itself.

I am not suggesting not being vigilant, but at the same time assuming that everything has to be replaced just in case is not an affordable (or even prudent) solution.  While there were  some replacement and upgrades in the Bay Area, even there, much of the traffic infrastructure is the same as it was before 1989.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: MikieTimT on January 15, 2022, 12:54:39 PM
Everyone up and down the river between Greenville and St. Louis is locked up over earthquake fears. That's the problem.

I think if this ever happens, the big bridges will be the least of the worries, It will be the small bridges, approaches, and overpasses that fail. No, they will not all fail, but when liquefaction of the soil occurs,  these stringer bridges may meet the same fate as the Embarcadero Freeway.  In that scenario buckling pavement on surface roads (including freeway lanes) would be devastating by itself.

I am not suggesting not being vigilant, but at the same time assuming that everything has to be replaced just in case.  While there were  some replacement and upgrades in the Bay Area, even there, much of the traffic infrastructure is the same as it was before

Still more likely that the Mississippi River overtops the levees before any of that happens.  That makes for a damaging mess as well.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Bobby5280 on January 18, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
Quote from: bwana30
For sure the engineering costs have escalated exponentially. Is it the construction cost or engineering costs? Have the construction costs themselves ballooned similarly?

Price inflation is hitting every category in such projects. The cost of materials has risen sharply in recent times, thanks in part to the pandemic and supply chain issues. Labor costs are rising. Insurance costs are rising. Engineering isn't the only "administrative" expense. There is all the legal/regulatory red tape to consider. There only seems to be more and more of that added to such projects. The sharp price increases of late have made it very difficult to accurately estimate what a highway project will cost to build. Here just recently a couple notable projects in Texas have been forced back to the drawing board because contractor bids came in much higher than the DOT's forecast estimates.
Title: Re: Who Is More Deserving Of A New Mississippi River Bridge?
Post by: Anthony_JK on March 29, 2022, 12:31:58 AM

If the "Old Bridge" on US 190 is upgraded, they could do something like they did with the Huey P. Long in NOLA and simply strengthen the existing trusses and widen the existing roadways to 3 lanes with proper shoulders. They could also simply build a separate single span for the highway portion and either tear down the existing highway portion or convert it for pedestrian and bike usage, or just tear it down completely.

There arises an issue, however, with the eastern approach: there's an underpass where the Baton Rouge Southern (ex KCS) rail line crosses over the US 190 mainline, and then there is an at-grade crossing of the CN (ex-IC) rail line where there's also an intersection with an access road to the aluminum plant. Monte Sano Avenue, which parallels US 190, also crosses the CN line there as well. How they are going to get a freeway/tollway through that towards the Scenic Highway interchange (a scrunched cloverleaf) is going to be interesting.


If one could take a time machine back 60-70 years, one wonders how Louisiana/Baton Rouge would have dealt with that if the original I-410 would have been built.

Yeah, about that original I-410 proposal....wasn't that to use what is now I-110 through downtown to Airline Highway, then double back using the US 190 bridge and then LA 1 or a new corridor just west of there?

Also....I thought that 410 was also the number that was proposed for the Dixie Highway bypass of greater New Orleans? (Of which I-310 and I-510 were its offshoots.)


Something like that...
(Thought I had a better scan of the Baton Rouge inset, in the lower right corner)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/4645/27659655409_f6f4136a3a_o.jpg)
la_rand_62 (https://flic.kr/p/J9bXUv)

Found more info on the proposed original I-410 in BTR.

Apparently, it would have used what is now I-110 from its current downtown terminus to Airline Highway (US 61-190 Bypass), then turned west on an upgraded US 190 using the existing "Old" Mississippi River bridge to just west of LA 415, then turned back to the south to reconnect with I-10 west of Lobdell.

Basically, it would follow the western portion of what is now proposed as the Northern BTR Loop, but then double back down existing I-110 rather than continuing down Airline Hwy to Plank Road, then cutting northward and eastward north of Denham Springs and Walker as the North Loop is proposed to do.

When that was cancelled, they then decided to extend I-110 northward through Scotlandville to its current terminus in North BTR at Scenic Highway (US 61) near Mills Avenue, just north of the Southern University campus.

Source page for this (and also the proposed I-410 Dixie Highway in NOLA): 

https://www.interstate-guide.com/i-410-la/