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Author Topic: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...  (Read 22467 times)

sprjus4

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #150 on: September 13, 2021, 04:49:03 PM »

Phoenix to Las Vegas has no freeway options that are reasonable, period.

Denver to Oklahoma City may not be the most direct, but at least the fastest route is all freeway (I-70, I-135, I-35).
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bwana39

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #151 on: September 13, 2021, 06:02:00 PM »

I drove US 287 through eastern Colorado this past spring. It is probably the best 2 lane road I’ve ever been on. Excellent pavement quality (and a lot of it is concrete, which is not a common sight on a western rural surface street), wide shoulders, center and side rumble strips, great sight lines...

There were a lot of trucks on it, but to be honest based on what I saw I don’t even think it needs to be 4 lanes. It could benefit from more passing lanes (and especially from signs giving advance notice of those), and maaaybe 4 lanes might be warranted on the Kit Carson-Limon stretch? But nothing about the road or the traffic on it really screams “interstate worthy” to me.

In Texas and I am sure some other states, just because there is asphalt as the topping it doesn't mean there is not concrete as the basis. Asphalt is quieter and is more easily removed to be retopped. Anyone who has driven Texas interstates in summer is sorely aware of the near constant milling the asphalt off and putting a fresh coat on top of the concrete.
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #152 on: September 13, 2021, 07:14:31 PM »

Quote from: sprjus4
Denver to Oklahoma City may not be the most direct, but at least the fastest route is all freeway (I-70, I-135, I-35).

The I-35/I-135/I-70 combo might arguably be the most safe route from OKC to Denver since it's all limited access. But it's a toss-up on being the fastest existing route. OK-3 to Boise City and US-287 on Northward is the shortest existing route between OKC and Denver. One thing is certain: the route from OKC to Denver via Boise City is more dangerous. A couple years ago one of my girlfriend's female friends got killed in a head-on collision North of Boise City near the CO border.

On long road trips I overwhelmingly prefer 4-lane divided routes, especially when driving at night. Before smart phones we mainly had to worry about drunks out on the highway. Distracted driving is at epidemic levels. On a 2-lane road it's very easy for someone to drift into on-coming traffic while trying to read or type out a text message. The drunks and drowsy drivers and mostly hazards late at night. Distracted drivers can cause accidents any time of day.

Not every 2-lane highway can be expanded into 4-lanes (and divided). Texas had added a lot of passing lanes on its 2-lane highways. Oklahoma does deserve some credit for 4-laning a number of rural routes around the state to make them safer. Here locally OK-7 between Lawton and Duncan is one example. OK-49 from the I-44 Medicine Park exit to the junction with OK-58 is another. That particular road had a number of terrible collision accidents when I first moved to this area. That stretch of OK-49 is so much safer now.
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sprjus4

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #153 on: September 13, 2021, 07:31:53 PM »

Quote from: sprjus4
Denver to Oklahoma City may not be the most direct, but at least the fastest route is all freeway (I-70, I-135, I-35).

The I-35/I-135/I-70 combo might arguably be the most safe route from OKC to Denver since it's all limited access. But it's a toss-up on being the fastest existing route. OK-3 to Boise City and US-287 on Northward is the shortest existing route between OKC and Denver.
How exactly? That route is over 30 minutes longer.
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Scott5114

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #154 on: September 13, 2021, 09:06:24 PM »

Quote from: sprjus4
Denver to Oklahoma City may not be the most direct, but at least the fastest route is all freeway (I-70, I-135, I-35).

The I-35/I-135/I-70 combo might arguably be the most safe route from OKC to Denver since it's all limited access. But it's a toss-up on being the fastest existing route. OK-3 to Boise City and US-287 on Northward is the shortest existing route between OKC and Denver.
How exactly? That route is over 30 minutes longer.

Distance? The fact that I-35 goes through major metropolitan areas that have rush hours and OK-3 doesn't?
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #155 on: September 13, 2021, 09:10:14 PM »

I still think "I-32" (DFW-Amarillo-somewhere on I-25) is good enough for Oklahoma. It reduces the distance from Oklahoma City to Denver over the current all-freeway route, and it doesn't require backtracking if Colorado Springs (or Pueblo), rather than Denver, is your start or end point. It also serves Wichita Falls, TX along the way,
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thisdj78

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #156 on: September 13, 2021, 11:18:19 PM »

Quote from: sprjus4
Denver to Oklahoma City may not be the most direct, but at least the fastest route is all freeway (I-70, I-135, I-35).

The I-35/I-135/I-70 combo might arguably be the most safe route from OKC to Denver since it's all limited access. But it's a toss-up on being the fastest existing route. OK-3 to Boise City and US-287 on Northward is the shortest existing route between OKC and Denver.
How exactly? That route is over 30 minutes longer.

Distance? The fact that I-35 goes through major metropolitan areas that have rush hours and OK-3 doesn't?

Wichita? That’s the only major metro between OKC and Denver and barely any rush hour traffic there.

As far as suburban traffic in OKC and Denver, I guess it all depends on what parts of the cities one is traveling from and to. But I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs is under construction so that could add time if someone were taking the more “direct” route.
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #157 on: September 13, 2021, 11:52:11 PM »

Quote from: 1
I still think "I-32" (DFW-Amarillo-somewhere on I-25) is good enough for Oklahoma. It reduces the distance from Oklahoma City to Denver over the current all-freeway route, and it doesn't require backtracking if Colorado Springs (or Pueblo), rather than Denver, is your start or end point. It also serves Wichita Falls, TX along the way,

The DFW-Amarillo "I-32" route does little, if anything for motorists in Oklahoma. It's 100% irrelevant to anyone in Oklahoma near or North of I-40.

The only drivers from Oklahoma that would derive any benefit from an all Interstate DFW-Amarillo segment would be in SW parts of the state, like Lawton or Altus. Motorists driving to the Denver area from places like OKC or Tulsa would have to continue either driving on existing routes to Boise City or clear up to Salina, KS. An improved, 4-lane divided US-287 between Boise City and Limon would be safer, but drivers from OKC have to bounce around the path OK-3 takes over to Boise City to get there.

US-287 definitely needs to be upgraded fully to Interstate standards between DFW and Amarillo. But that should not be sold at all as some kind of benefit for Oklahoma motorists or drivers going through Oklahoma. It's a different corridor.

Quote from: thisdj78
As far as suburban traffic in OKC and Denver, I guess it all depends on what parts of the cities one is traveling from and to. But I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs is under construction so that could add time if someone were taking the more “direct” route.

CDOT (or more like the CO state government) is pretty bad at under-estimating traffic capacity needs on its highways. I-25 has gone through pretty much a complete re-build through Colorado Springs over the past 20 years. The end result: no more than 3 thru lanes in each direction. Ugh.
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #158 on: September 14, 2021, 06:35:07 AM »

Quote from: 1
I still think "I-32" (DFW-Amarillo-somewhere on I-25) is good enough for Oklahoma. It reduces the distance from Oklahoma City to Denver over the current all-freeway route, and it doesn't require backtracking if Colorado Springs (or Pueblo), rather than Denver, is your start or end point. It also serves Wichita Falls, TX along the way,

The DFW-Amarillo "I-32" route does little, if anything for motorists in Oklahoma. It's 100% irrelevant to anyone in Oklahoma near or North of I-40.

The only drivers from Oklahoma that would derive any benefit from an all Interstate DFW-Amarillo segment would be in SW parts of the state, like Lawton or Altus. Motorists driving to the Denver area from places like OKC or Tulsa would have to continue either driving on existing routes to Boise City or clear up to Salina, KS. An improved, 4-lane divided US-287 between Boise City and Limon would be safer, but drivers from OKC have to bounce around the path OK-3 takes over to Boise City to get there.

US-287 definitely needs to be upgraded fully to Interstate standards between DFW and Amarillo. But that should not be sold at all as some kind of benefit for Oklahoma motorists or drivers going through Oklahoma. It's a different corridor.

I think you missed that the corridor included a section northwest of Amarillo, to somewhere such as Raton (but could be anywhere on I-25 in that general area).
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #159 on: September 14, 2021, 09:33:33 AM »

Quote from: 1
I still think "I-32" (DFW-Amarillo-somewhere on I-25) is good enough for Oklahoma. It reduces the distance from Oklahoma City to Denver over the current all-freeway route, and it doesn't require backtracking if Colorado Springs (or Pueblo), rather than Denver, is your start or end point. It also serves Wichita Falls, TX along the way,

The DFW-Amarillo "I-32" route does little, if anything for motorists in Oklahoma. It's 100% irrelevant to anyone in Oklahoma near or North of I-40.

The only drivers from Oklahoma that would derive any benefit from an all Interstate DFW-Amarillo segment would be in SW parts of the state, like Lawton or Altus. Motorists driving to the Denver area from places like OKC or Tulsa would have to continue either driving on existing routes to Boise City or clear up to Salina, KS. An improved, 4-lane divided US-287 between Boise City and Limon would be safer, but drivers from OKC have to bounce around the path OK-3 takes over to Boise City to get there.

US-287 definitely needs to be upgraded fully to Interstate standards between DFW and Amarillo. But that should not be sold at all as some kind of benefit for Oklahoma motorists or drivers going through Oklahoma. It's a different corridor.

Quote from: thisdj78
As far as suburban traffic in OKC and Denver, I guess it all depends on what parts of the cities one is traveling from and to. But I-25 between Denver and Colorado Springs is under construction so that could add time if someone were taking the more “direct” route.

CDOT (or more like the CO state government) is pretty bad at under-estimating traffic capacity needs on its highways. I-25 has gone through pretty much a complete re-build through Colorado Springs over the past 20 years. The end result: no more than 3 thru lanes in each direction. Ugh.

On a side note, curious question to you:

You living in Lawton, and there was a I-32 (basically the US-287 corridor from Ennis to Amarillo), would you take I-44 to I-32 to I-40 to get to points west, or would you take a more direct route?
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Scott5114

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #160 on: September 14, 2021, 03:57:41 PM »

I feel like the correct routing in that case would involve US-62 west (which is four lane divided between Lawton and Altus.) After leaving OK, TX-256 continues the route west and intersects US-287 in Memphis TX.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2021, 03:59:49 PM by Scott5114 »
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #161 on: September 15, 2021, 08:23:38 PM »

Quote from: 1
I think you missed that the corridor included a section northwest of Amarillo, to somewhere such as Raton (but could be anywhere on I-25 in that general area).

As I said earlier, I think chances are between very slim and none US-64/87 is ever upgraded to Interstate quality in Northern New Mexico. There is a somewhat better shot at US-287 being upgraded to Interstate quality going straight North thru the Texas panhandle.

Quote from: ethanhopkin14
You living in Lawton, and there was a I-32 (basically the US-287 corridor from Ennis to Amarillo), would you take I-44 to I-32 to I-40 to get to points west, or would you take a more direct route?

It would be really stupid to drive South to Wichita Falls to pick up an Interstate going West-Northwest. Like Scott5114 said, the correct route for anyone driving from Lawton to Amarillo is using US-62 and TX-256 to pick up US-287 in Memphis. I use that route, along with going up to Raton, when driving from Lawton to Colorado Springs.

I live in the SW part of OK, close enough to the US-287 corridor to get some partial benefit using it driving to Amarillo. No one in the Oklahoma City area, Tulsa or other notable areas in Central and Northern Oklahoma would go no farther South than I-40. The "I-32" concept means nothing to those drivers for road trips to Colorado and points farther Northwest. Unless drivers from those areas intend to stop in Amarillo for something specific they're going to save time and mileage by taking OK-3 up to Boise City. Even the OK-3 option is pretty inefficient for the hard angles it has to take, the biggest one being the hard right at US-287 in Boise City.

I personally wouldn't get very much benefit from a OKC-Denver diagonal Interstate. But that corridor idea is not about me or other people in Lawton. It's about much bigger picture functions for the overall Interstate system. Denver is an important hub in the highway network. So is Oklahoma City. Diagonally linking the two would provide a much more direct pathway between the Northwest and Southeast.
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #162 on: September 15, 2021, 08:46:11 PM »

If a direct diagonal connection is built, Colorado Springs should not be left out. It's fairly large and growing.
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #163 on: September 16, 2021, 11:47:25 AM »

The drive time/distance from a place like Oklahoma City to Colorado Springs would still be improved by a direct diagonal OKC-Denver route. The segment from Garden City to Kit Carson would place motorists near the CO-94/US-287 intersection a little ways West of Kit Carson. CO-94 would be used for the rest of the drive into Colorado Springs.

The OKC-Denver route I've been kicking around at least tries to utilize some existing highway corridors, such as OK-3 in Oklahoma and the Limon-Kit Carson segment of US-287. The gap between Woodward and Kit Carson just needs to be filled in with something, even if it's just a Super 2 to establish things and preserve ROW for the future.

If the Ports to Plains Corridor is fully built-out the stretch of CO-94 going East out of Colorado Springs might end up needing to be upgraded at least to a 4-lane divided expressway. Unfortunately CDOT is moving glacier slow on corridors in even more need of improvement, such as US-24 between Colorado Springs and Limon. US-24 should be a 4-lane divided highway, if not something that can eventually be upgraded into an Interstate-class route. I think it's criminally negligent US-24 isn't 4-lane divided to at least some point East of Peyton. The road is freaking dangerous going Northeast of Falcon up thru Peyton and Calhan. I'm nervous every time I drive on it.
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ethanhopkin14

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #164 on: September 17, 2021, 01:43:46 PM »

The drive time/distance from a place like Oklahoma City to Colorado Springs would still be improved by a direct diagonal OKC-Denver route. The segment from Garden City to Kit Carson would place motorists near the CO-94/US-287 intersection a little ways West of Kit Carson. CO-94 would be used for the rest of the drive into Colorado Springs.

The OKC-Denver route I've been kicking around at least tries to utilize some existing highway corridors, such as OK-3 in Oklahoma and the Limon-Kit Carson segment of US-287. The gap between Woodward and Kit Carson just needs to be filled in with something, even if it's just a Super 2 to establish things and preserve ROW for the future.

If the Ports to Plains Corridor is fully built-out the stretch of CO-94 going East out of Colorado Springs might end up needing to be upgraded at least to a 4-lane divided expressway. Unfortunately CDOT is moving glacier slow on corridors in even more need of improvement, such as US-24 between Colorado Springs and Limon. US-24 should be a 4-lane divided highway, if not something that can eventually be upgraded into an Interstate-class route. I think it's criminally negligent US-24 isn't 4-lane divided to at least some point East of Peyton. The road is freaking dangerous going Northeast of Falcon up thru Peyton and Calhan. I'm nervous every time I drive on it.

I call I-48 or I-50 for the Denver-OKC route!!
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #165 on: September 18, 2021, 12:56:37 AM »

If the number was up to me (it isn't) I'd go with "I-46." That's only because its Northwestern terminus would be near the end of I-76. It would seem kind of fitting to have two I-x6 routes ending in the same neighborhood. I-46 is also the next even number step up from I-44. With the possibility being discussed with US-412 being upgraded to an Interstate from I-35 thru Tulsa to Springdale that one might be a better I-48. If an Interstate upgrade of US-412 was extended farther West through Enid and over to Woodward it would hook into this fictional "I-46" route from a more Northward angle. That would make the I-48 designation over the US-412 corridor even more sensible.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 01:01:26 AM by Bobby5280 »
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #166 on: September 21, 2021, 09:31:25 PM »

Maybe someone should ask FritzOwl what his/her opinion would be on the matter. You can never go wrong with FritzOwl!
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #167 on: September 28, 2021, 10:53:59 AM »

Today's Sep 28  Federal Register has Final approvals for several Texas highway projects including US 87 from Dumas to Hartley . It's an EA maybe someone could link it. It improves a 2 lane with passing lanes to a four lane divided and found no significant environmental impact.
Maybe the EA discussed  the 27 idea or Dallas Denver.
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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #168 on: September 28, 2021, 10:49:14 PM »

I'm really glad they're finally going to do something about that Dumas-Hartley segment of US-87. That will make my road trips from Lawton to Colorado Springs go a little bit better. I hope they're able to break ground on the project soon.
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #169 on: October 02, 2021, 08:41:08 PM »

If a direct diagonal connection is built, Colorado Springs should not be left out. It's fairly large and growing.
I’m not sure what you mean by left out but any connection to Colorado Springs should be the burden of Colorado to build a spur to. Now I am a little biased because I do have a place in Oklahoma City as well as living in Hollywood and traveling very frequently to Moab and several other cities along I 70 in Colorado I would benefit greatly from a direct interstate from OKC to Denver.

With that said as another poster has pointed out OKC and Denver are two major cities that are both important hubs on the interstate system, that have no direct connection, and in the grand scheme of things aren’t that far from each other. However putting my personal bias aside a direct route to OKC from Denver would only benefit the interstate system so as long as this Rall would continue Southeast to connect in Texarkana potentially allowing several cities in the south a better connection to the northwest.

I’m not sure how many tens of billions of dollars it would cost but there is absolutely no way this happens without a major federal government investment even though Oklahoma would still benefit greatly and probably the most of any state this new route would affect.

This would top any project in my wish list coming close to the 710 or ca 2 tunnel or perhaps and I-40 tunnel from kingman into California all things I’d love. But a Denver to Texarkana interstate going straight through Oklahoma City would definitely top any of those things for me.
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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #171 on: January 17, 2022, 03:35:56 PM »

Will any segments of the proposed extensions of Interstate 14 and Interstate 27 be constructed anytime soon? It seems to me like both Interstates will remain at their present lengths for quite some time to come. Are extending 14 and 27 as much a priority as building Interstate 69 and its spurs?
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #172 on: January 17, 2022, 03:56:47 PM »

It seems Texas is going to need to find ways to increase its transportation funding. I-14, I-69, I-27 are all projects in great need of funding and will cost billions.
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bwana39

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #173 on: January 17, 2022, 06:08:18 PM »

Will any segments of the proposed extensions of Interstate 14 and Interstate 27 be constructed anytime soon? It seems to me like both Interstates will remain at their present lengths for quite some time to come. Are extending 14 and 27 as much a priority as building Interstate 69 and its spurs?

No, I-69 clearly has a greater priority.  I might even add, I feel fairly certain that I-27 and I-14 don't even fall next in line.

The I-14 CORRIDOR will probably see significant improvement from Temple to I-69. I think that means loops around towns , rural divided highway, and grade separations at MAJOR intersections. Currently there is not a firm path for it and None of the adjacent states have even MINIMAL interest. I think that there will likely be freeway from I-35 to BCS in 20 years, but it could be from Waco (TX-6) as much as US-190 from Temple. Likewise the I-27 corridor.

I-69 is a twenty year project. I don't see I-14 or 27 doing much in 20 years.

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Bobby5280

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Re: In preparation for I-27 extension, expect bypass and/or 4-lane upgrades...
« Reply #174 on: January 17, 2022, 10:30:32 PM »

I think it's going to take a good bit more business growth (and maybe population growth as well) for the expansion of I-27 to gain more traction. The same goes for the proposed Western portions of I-14.
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