States ranked by traffic signal layouts

[SkyPesos]

Since there's threads ranking states on their signage and state route shield design already, let's do traffic signal layouts. Note that I'm not going to do a full ranking list right away, but with enough replies on this thread, hopefully, we can get close to one. And most of these in this initial post are solely my opinion, and what I think is ideal.

To start of, I'll put all the mostly span wire states in the bottom half of the list. Generally, from what I see, span wire states pretty much rely entirely on overhead signals, including on the few mast arm setups there. I prefer a few side signals spread out on some corners as well, and less overhead clutter.

Off my top states, I'll put Wisconsin in the first or second spot. Really like the post mounted signal placement with two at the stop line, then another two in opposite corners past the intersecting road, and a single horizontal overhead signal (yes, I prefer horizontal overhead to vertical ones by a bit, but only if they're not all cluttered overhead).

I think that California and Minnesota are roughly equal, and go in the top 5. Illinois, Kansas and Missouri a level below those two, and go in top 10.

Some states I'm interested in/want to know more about their signal layouts, and could potentially make the top 10 for me: WA (saw a mix of span wire and mast arms on my visits to Seattle, so I'm holding off placement on the list for now), OR, UT, CO, AZ, TX.

[CoreySamson]

Well, if you love horizontal signals, then you'll love Texas. To me, Texas ranks a solid top 10-15, maybe higher, but I can't vouch for DFW, Austin, or San Antonio. Regardless, I have a pretty good understanding of SE Texan signal practices, so here's a rundown.

Most new signal setups look somewhat like this:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5549516,-95.4173863,3a,20.4y,354.31h,94.36t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1so-5SvTkKlTT4ElBXfN4crQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Most often there'll be two horizontal thru signals and as many left turn signals as there are turn lanes. 90% of the time those left turn signals only have a protected phase, though FYAs make up the other 10% and are growing in popularity. I'd say all new setups I've seen are mast-arm, though quite a few span wires still exist. You might notice the left turn signal has four faces and a double red arrow. The only purpose of the double red from what I've seen is to differentiate the left turn signals from the thru signals.

Most new signals are black with black backplates or yellow with black backplates. TxDOT doesn't seem to have a preference, and sometimes they don't care to match colors on older setups. Side signals are somewhat common in urban areas, rare in rural areas.

Some of my favorite setups:

US-59 @ TX-49, Jefferson, TX:
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7612556,-94.3550401,3a,25.1y,14.72h,94.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sq4wvljv7R3IzqLTe1vkitA!2e0!5s20130601T000000!7i13312!8i6656
This FYA has a slick light up plaque that says "LEFT TURN YIELD" when the FYA is active. I think it looks dope.

TX-288 @ FM-518, Pearland, TX:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.5558154,-95.3886354,3a,30.3y,86.37h,91.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sTT9u2bAgwRlXWx0SY-iy1w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
This brand-new signal was put up just last year. I like the black mast-arm and the side signal placement (and the clean street blade helps things out, too!)

And here's some head-scratchers:
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.0977783,-95.6906228,3a,25.1y,52.38h,94.27t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1siD2jQvpbdCygumznNdckQw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.0410671,-95.413336,3a,71.3y,29.82h,87.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVcOYrRTDUuK0HTeZXHvW9A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.7403583,-95.4670289,3a,29.1y,76.03h,95.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK46uvv3XE4YVO05MY-eYMQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[SkyPesos]

Well, if you love horizontal signals, then you'll love Texas. To me, Texas ranks a solid top 10-15, maybe higher, but I can't vouch for DFW, Austin, or San Antonio. Regardless, I have a pretty good understanding of SE Texan signal practices, so here's a rundown.
...

Some things that knock Texas down for me after some browsing, and they may be a bit nitpicky.
- Lack of side mounted signals. Clutters the overhead mast arm, considering horizontal signals take up more mast arm space than vertical signals. Also, I read the reason why double red lights are needed for left turns in TX is because there's only one left turn signal for a single lane, and in case the single red section burns out, but side signals solve the same issue.
- Fat mast arms. Though I think there are better examples for mast arm size, like I really like the ones on Post Oak in Uptown Houston along the BRT line (goes with the side signal placement too for the Uptown examples).
- This one is more specific to Dallas, but could apply to signals in other states too: I don't really see a point dangling signals below a mast arm, and it looks out of place too.

Overall, Texas is definitely in the top 20 for me, maybe top 15, considering how many states use span wire extensively.

[ran4sh]

I see no reason that a span wire state should automatically be at the bottom. GDOT even specifies that span wire is preferred to mast arm because with span wire it is more likely that the signals will be placed in the correct locations without depending on a pole that could possibly be within or too close to the clear zone.

GDOT quote: "Span wire allows for the placement of signal heads in the near-optimal viewing position without overly restricting  the placement of strain poles. A span wire configuration also allows for pole placement outside of the clear zone." Source - page 4-1 of https://www.dot.ga.gov/partnersmart/designmanuals/signaldesignmanual/traffic%20signal%20design%20guidelines-2016.pdf

[on_wisconsin]

Off my top states, I'll put Wisconsin in the first or second spot. Really like the post mounted signal placement with two at the stop line, then another two in opposite corners past the intersecting road, and a single horizontal overhead signal (yes, I prefer horizontal overhead to vertical ones by a bit, but only if they're not all cluttered overhead).

FYI. WisDOT has been steadily converting and replacing horizontal signals with vertical ones since around 2010'ish. However, local DPWs can still use horizontally mounted lights.

[SkyPesos]

I see no reason that a span wire state should automatically be at the bottom. GDOT even specifies that span wire is preferred to mast arm because with span wire it is more likely that the signals will be placed in the correct locations without depending on a pole that could possibly be within or too close to the clear zone.

GDOT quote: "Span wire allows for the placement of signal heads in the near-optimal viewing position without overly restricting  the placement of strain poles. A span wire configuration also allows for pole placement outside of the clear zone." Source - page 4-1 of https://www.dot.ga.gov/partnersmart/designmanuals/signaldesignmanual/traffic%20signal%20design%20guidelines-2016.pdf

Mostly a personal preference, similar to Highway Gothic vs Clearview. Though I mentioned in the OP that most span wire setups lack side signals and are heavily reliant on overhead ones. I guess this is why it's used for optimal overhead placement, like what the linked GDOT manual suggested?

[SkyPesos]

Off my top states, I'll put Wisconsin in the first or second spot. Really like the post mounted signal placement with two at the stop line, then another two in opposite corners past the intersecting road, and a single horizontal overhead signal (yes, I prefer horizontal overhead to vertical ones by a bit, but only if they're not all cluttered overhead).

FYI. WisDOT has been steadily converting and replacing horizontal signals with vertical ones since around 2010'ish. However, local DPWs can still use horizontally mounted lights.

Does Wisconsin still use the side signals placement I mentioned in the OP, and only one or two signals overhead? That is the main reason why I like Wisconsin's setup, and the horizontal overhead signals are a bonus. As long as the general layout is still there in newer installations, it's still on the top of the list imo, even with vertical overheads.

[Big John]

Off my top states, I'll put Wisconsin in the first or second spot. Really like the post mounted signal placement with two at the stop line, then another two in opposite corners past the intersecting road, and a single horizontal overhead signal (yes, I prefer horizontal overhead to vertical ones by a bit, but only if they're not all cluttered overhead).

FYI. WisDOT has been steadily converting and replacing horizontal signals with vertical ones since around 2010'ish. However, local DPWs can still use horizontally mounted lights.

Does Wisconsin still use the side signals placement I mentioned in the OP, and only one or two signals overhead? That is the main reason why I like Wisconsin's setup, and the horizontal overhead signals are a bonus. As long as the general layout is still there in newer installations, it's still on the top of the list imo, even with vertical overheads.

They still use side signals, but not as much as before.  The mast-arm signals can remove some of them.

[JoePCool14]

I don't think it's necessarily fair to rank all majority span wire states in the bottom half. Although, the rankings may be too close to each other to allow for much flexibility, so...

I'll discuss three of the states near me.

Wisconsin is still pretty good. I'm not as much of a fan of their newer installs as the classic ones. The mast arms are generally unnecessarily thick, the backplates are very flimsy, and the signage labeling the cross street is hit-or-miss with quality. Sometimes they are so bad, they're unreadable at high speeds. However, they use lots of signals and place them well, including in the medians when needed. They have embraced FYA signals. And of course, there's still a plethora of classic horizontal installs scattered around the state. So yeah, they're very good.

An extra note on Wisconsin: They're good at keeping themselves controlled with where they place signals. They don't spam them along arterials, which helps keep traffic flowing better.



Illinois* signals is something I think the state does well. New installs have plenty of signals, though I'd actually argue sometimes they have too many. The newest signals use very study backplates, and even the old ones hold up nicely. IDOT has replaced every pedestrian signal with a modern countdown timer. Almost every IDOT signal (at least in my area) has been modernized in some form. Right-turn lanes with right-turn arrows are a-plenty which is awesome!

Some gripes I have though are that every new install uses black signal backs, which is just so stupid. It's not necessary to do that on open roads away from downtowns. It reduces visibility of the signal and I just personally don't like the look. As I mentioned, they also don't use yellow backplates either. Signage for cross streets is good when it's there, but many intersections are missing them. IDOT never uses FYA signals, though some of the collar counties do. Overall, Illinois is good. Wisconsin probably gets the edge on them though.

Also, Illinois has too many signals. IDOT is not selective enough with where they allow them. See US-12 north of Lake-Cook Rd for a road that has way too many signals.

* I am only focusing on IDOT District 1 (Chicagoland). Downstate deserves an opinion from someone else that's more familiar.



Finally, I'll touch on Michigan. The state as far as I can tell, is very much moving away from span wires. Many of you will see that as a positive, but I'm personally disappointed. I loved the classic diagonal wire setups with the flashing red ball back in the day, and I think their installs now are just generic. The mast arms are again unnecessarily thick and seem to always be painted a dark color (green or black). However, Michigan's signals look sturdy, they embrace FYA, have clear and consistent cross-street signage, even if it is in Clearview. I love that Michigan uses signals on their U-turns for bigger arterials. I always thought that was cool as a child.



I might come back to this thread later to talk about Indiana or Iowa, but I don't think I feel qualified enough to talk about those states.

What I will add is this: I think Texas signals are awful, inconsistent messes and don't deserve to be in the top half in the country. Messy wiring, horizontal versus vertical is inconsistent, among other issues. Maybe new installs are better, but I'm not sure. I am sure that the Uptown Houston signals are abominations and should be set on fire.

[andrepoiy]

How'd you rate Ontario?

[tdindy88]

I'll comment on Indiana's signals. I think the state fits firmly in the middle in terms of traffic signals. The state has more span-wire signals than mast-arm, but there's actually quite a lot of mast-arm signals throughout the state. In fact the distribution between the two might almost be 50/50.  Most of the mast-arm signals are in more urban locations but they can be found in town centers as well. Most of the mast-arm signals are of a standard design but there's some newer varieties sprinkled about.

Here's a typical mast-arm signal from around Indianapolis: https://goo.gl/maps/wmBzMk2iuvkBhQjU7
A more newer looking mast-arm signal from the northern suburbs of Indy: https://goo.gl/maps/kuNnhbgd3JTQ8vaGA
And a mast-arm signal from a smaller town: https://goo.gl/maps/ANraqYNmZNDFk6Tp8

Span-wire signals are naturally more common in more suburban and rural locales. But these Indiana actually do pretty well. The signals are supported from both the top and bottom of the signal and it makes a world of difference compared to other states where the signals droop. It's still span-wire but it looks so much more organized than it should be. In addition there are more flashing yellow lights and black back plates being added throughout the state.

Here's an example of the span-wire design from Avon: https://goo.gl/maps/ycjkEZ42PMhBPgNd8

And this example is pretty universal throughout the state. Not the greatest looking signal setup in the country but not really bad either.

[JoePCool14]

To add onto Indiana, here's an interesting small-scale span-wire just west on US-36 in Danville. To me, this still looks nice and also has a charm to it that big mast arms can't compete with. 

https://goo.gl/maps/LcDe4h7yuvBwUR5W6

[SkyPesos]

I'll comment on Indiana's signals. I think the state fits firmly in the middle in terms of traffic signals. The state has more span-wire signals than mast-arm, but there's actually quite a lot of mast-arm signals throughout the state. In fact the distribution between the two might almost be 50/50.  Most of the mast-arm signals are in more urban locations but they can be found in town centers as well. Most of the mast-arm signals are of a standard design but there's some newer varieties sprinkled about.

Here's a typical mast-arm signal from around Indianapolis: https://goo.gl/maps/wmBzMk2iuvkBhQjU7
A more newer looking mast-arm signal from the northern suburbs of Indy: https://goo.gl/maps/kuNnhbgd3JTQ8vaGA
And a mast-arm signal from a smaller town: https://goo.gl/maps/ANraqYNmZNDFk6Tp8

Span-wire signals are naturally more common in more suburban and rural locales. But these Indiana actually do pretty well. The signals are supported from both the top and bottom of the signal and it makes a world of difference compared to other states where the signals droop. It's still span-wire but it looks so much more organized than it should be. In addition there are more flashing yellow lights and black back plates being added throughout the state.

Here's an example of the span-wire design from Avon: https://goo.gl/maps/ycjkEZ42PMhBPgNd8

And this example is pretty universal throughout the state. Not the greatest looking signal setup in the country but not really bad either.

I'll rank Ohio roughly same with Indiana based on what you wrote about IN. I think Ohio's span wire is pretty good for a span wire setup, and there's no shortage of good mast arm setups in the state either. Dublin have some of my favorites, as they use side placed signals too (and unrelated to this thread, there's a 4 section protected-permissive right turn signal on the far right, something that's very rare in the state).

[jakeroot]

It would be hard for me to not put California first. Super-consistent across the state, all corners covered, very clean design overall.

I would also highly rank Chicago's signals (city of Chicago): all black signals, no backplates, most corners covered at many intersections, great operations too with many permissive lefts, unlike California (though minus a few for the non-compliant signals along Michigan Ave). The signals fit in very well to the urban environment, an unappreciated quality IMO.

I might also rank British Columbia up pretty highly. Always a signal on the left (I prefer left-side supplemental signals first over right-side supplemental signals), great operations, usually pretty clean installs. They also used 8-inch signals pretty commonly, which I always found to be sufficient for certain situations, but they've since moved to 12-inch faces for all new signals.

[US 89]

Utah is probably middle of the pack. Very clean mast arm designs and almost no span wire left by now, but loses a lot of points on lack of redundancy.

[kphoger]

I would also highly rank Chicago's signals (city of Chicago): all black signals, no backplates, most corners covered at many intersections, great operations too with many permissive lefts, unlike California (though minus a few for the non-compliant signals along Michigan Ave). The signals fit in very well to the urban environment, an unappreciated quality IMO.

Are there not still a whole host of Chicago intersections that don't have left turn signals but could really use them?

I know a lot have been installed in the last twenty years, though...

[jakeroot]

I would also highly rank Chicago's signals (city of Chicago): all black signals, no backplates, most corners covered at many intersections, great operations too with many permissive lefts, unlike California (though minus a few for the non-compliant signals along Michigan Ave). The signals fit in very well to the urban environment, an unappreciated quality IMO.

Are there not still a whole host of Chicago intersections that don't have left turn signals but could really use them?

I know a lot have been installed in the last twenty years, though...

Reminds me of a certain thread!

I'm not really keen on protected-permissive phasing unless it's absolutely necessary; I find the addition of a green arrow sometimes causes drivers to be not aggressive enough. I'm not sure they're as widely warranted as some insist.

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

[kphoger]

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

Can we just put you in charge of everything everywhere?  I hate fully protected signals too.

[andrepoiy]

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

Can we just put you in charge of everything everywhere?  I hate fully protected signals too.

They are useful in some situations, for example, where sightlines are completely obstructed. Such as having an LRT or BRT in the middle, and therefore the stations obstructing sightlines.

[US 89]

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

Can we just put you in charge of everything everywhere?  I hate fully protected signals too.

They are useful in some situations, for example, where sightlines are completely obstructed. Such as having an LRT or BRT in the middle, and therefore the stations obstructing sightlines.

Even without stations, I feel like any sort of permissive left across a train track or any sort of transit is just asking for trouble. Mostly because you're guaranteed to lose if you guess wrong.

[jakeroot]

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

Can we just put you in charge of everything everywhere?  I hate fully protected signals too.

They are useful in some situations, for example, where sightlines are completely obstructed. Such as having an LRT or BRT in the middle, and therefore the stations obstructing sightlines.

Even without stations, I feel like any sort of permissive left across a train track or any sort of transit is just asking for trouble. Mostly because you're guaranteed to lose if you guess wrong.

Just to make it plain: I'm fine with necessary uses, like across a median BRT or tram. It's the regular left turns where I feel like they shouldn't be used without serious certainty of it being necessary (way too many crashes, way too many pedestrians, etc).

[SkyPesos]

^ Are there any left turns that switch between fully protected and protected-permissive depending on time of day and/or traffic level. Could be done with an FYA signal; go to solid red instead of going to flashing yellow mode if you want it to be permissive only, then enable flashing yellow mode when traffic isn't as heavy.

[jakeroot]

^ Are there any left turns that switch between fully protected and protected-permissive depending on time of day and/or traffic level. Could be done with an FYA signal; go to solid red instead of going to flashing yellow mode if you want it to be permissive only, then enable flashing yellow mode when traffic isn't as heavy.

Oh, absolutely. That's very common in some areas. Time-of-day phasing (TOD), it's usually called. When used just at the beginning, it's a leading pedestrian interval (LPI).

Definitely a huge advantage of the FYA signal.

[Scott5114]

Fully-protected, I can't get behind at all without absolute certainty of it being necessary.

Can we just put you in charge of everything everywhere?  I hate fully protected signals too.

They are useful in some situations, for example, where sightlines are completely obstructed. Such as having an LRT or BRT in the middle, and therefore the stations obstructing sightlines.

Or when the oncoming traffic count is so high that you'll have no throughput without a protected phase. There's an intersection by my house that has a permissive signal to turn left from a road with a AADT of 27,000. It would have been cheaper to just put up a No Left Turn sign, since they're functionally equivalent.

[jeffandnicole]

Does any discussion about traffic signals not become a discussion of flashing yellow arrows anymore?