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Author Topic: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...  (Read 6619 times)

thenetwork

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #75 on: September 22, 2021, 07:08:28 PM »

Another question regarding I-275 in Michigan:

When I-275 first opened in the 70s, there was no control city listed on the signs at the I-75 interchange in Monroe. -- just I-275 NORTH.  The first mention of Flint was near I-94's junction.

Over the years, Flint was added as a control city for the I-75 NB signs.

Meanwhile, on the other end of I-275, Flint was never seen on any overheads at it's northern terminus with I-696.  Only on a supplemental sign.

So why not use Livonia as the main control city for I-275 North instead of Flint?  The last few exits on the I-275 segment which is duplexed with I-96 are all Livonia exits and is one of the largest suburbs in Detroit. 

Or at least list the cc's as Livonia - Flint or Livonia/Metro Airport.

They list Livonia as a control city for M-14 East from both I-94 and US-23...
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Flint1979

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #76 on: September 22, 2021, 07:27:34 PM »

Another question regarding I-275 in Michigan:

When I-275 first opened in the 70s, there was no control city listed on the signs at the I-75 interchange in Monroe. -- just I-275 NORTH.  The first mention of Flint was near I-94's junction.

Over the years, Flint was added as a control city for the I-75 NB signs.

Meanwhile, on the other end of I-275, Flint was never seen on any overheads at it's northern terminus with I-696.  Only on a supplemental sign.

So why not use Livonia as the main control city for I-275 North instead of Flint?  The last few exits on the I-275 segment which is duplexed with I-96 are all Livonia exits and is one of the largest suburbs in Detroit. 

Or at least list the cc's as Livonia - Flint or Livonia/Metro Airport.

They list Livonia as a control city for M-14 East from both I-94 and US-23...
It really should be Plymouth and Livonia which is what it is at the eastern end of the M-14/US-23 concurrency.
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Ryctor2018

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2021, 05:42:00 PM »

Another question regarding I-275 in Michigan:

When I-275 first opened in the 70s, there was no control city listed on the signs at the I-75 interchange in Monroe. -- just I-275 NORTH.  The first mention of Flint was near I-94's junction.

Over the years, Flint was added as a control city for the I-75 NB signs.

Meanwhile, on the other end of I-275, Flint was never seen on any overheads at it's northern terminus with I-696.  Only on a supplemental sign.

So why not use Livonia as the main control city for I-275 North instead of Flint?  The last few exits on the I-275 segment which is duplexed with I-96 are all Livonia exits and is one of the largest suburbs in Detroit. 

Or at least list the cc's as Livonia - Flint or Livonia/Metro Airport.

They list Livonia as a control city for M-14 East from both I-94 and US-23...
It really should be Plymouth and Livonia which is what it is at the eastern end of the M-14/US-23 concurrency.

Google streetview (and a recent trip to Michigan) has Plymouth as the control city for the east U.S, 23/M-14 interchange. The exits east of that along M-14 has Detroit as the control. As for I-275, I suspect that Flint is the control city, not a Detroit suburb because: for routing thru traffic from southeastern Michigan between Toledo and Detroit. Because, until recently MDOT still had ideas for the corridor north of the current end of I-275. Once M-5 was completed in the early 2000 did that line of thinking conclude. Third, because Michigan considers I-275 ending in Novi, not Livonia. That would be a better control. Especially with the large shopping area nearby. But, MDOT does not work that way.

I-696 has a control city of Port Huron, even though the freeway ends nearly 50 miles before that city. But, MDOT considers I-696 as a bypass of Detroit for traffic heading east. I think MDOT thinks of I-275 the same way.
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GaryV

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2021, 05:46:32 PM »

I-696 has a control city of Port Huron, even though the freeway ends nearly 50 miles before that city. But, MDOT considers I-696 as a bypass of Detroit for traffic heading east. I think MDOT thinks of I-275 the same way.
And Lansing for wb, which is well over 50 miles from the west end of I-696.
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Flint1979

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2021, 06:29:31 PM »

Another question regarding I-275 in Michigan:

When I-275 first opened in the 70s, there was no control city listed on the signs at the I-75 interchange in Monroe. -- just I-275 NORTH.  The first mention of Flint was near I-94's junction.

Over the years, Flint was added as a control city for the I-75 NB signs.

Meanwhile, on the other end of I-275, Flint was never seen on any overheads at it's northern terminus with I-696.  Only on a supplemental sign.

So why not use Livonia as the main control city for I-275 North instead of Flint?  The last few exits on the I-275 segment which is duplexed with I-96 are all Livonia exits and is one of the largest suburbs in Detroit. 

Or at least list the cc's as Livonia - Flint or Livonia/Metro Airport.

They list Livonia as a control city for M-14 East from both I-94 and US-23...
It really should be Plymouth and Livonia which is what it is at the eastern end of the M-14/US-23 concurrency.

Google streetview (and a recent trip to Michigan) has Plymouth as the control city for the east U.S, 23/M-14 interchange. The exits east of that along M-14 has Detroit as the control. As for I-275, I suspect that Flint is the control city, not a Detroit suburb because: for routing thru traffic from southeastern Michigan between Toledo and Detroit. Because, until recently MDOT still had ideas for the corridor north of the current end of I-275. Once M-5 was completed in the early 2000 did that line of thinking conclude. Third, because Michigan considers I-275 ending in Novi, not Livonia. That would be a better control. Especially with the large shopping area nearby. But, MDOT does not work that way.

I-696 has a control city of Port Huron, even though the freeway ends nearly 50 miles before that city. But, MDOT considers I-696 as a bypass of Detroit for traffic heading east. I think MDOT thinks of I-275 the same way.
It has Livonia too going from SB US-23 to EB M-14. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3236256,-83.699859,3a,55.9y,92.25h,109.4t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdmRSR0g5CcVsBo5AZX_idQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

One rule of control cities is that the control city doesn't have to be reached before the control city is switched to the next control city so having Detroit as a control city for EB M-14 is fine as that ends right into I-96 EB going toward downtown.

MDOT hasn't had plans to extend I-275 north of it's northern terminus for years. At the time the Interstate highway system was being planned there wasn't much development out that way but the lakes caused an issue too. Flint is just an outdated control city still on the list that's why it's used and you can get to Flint via I-96 to US-23. It's too bad that I-275 wasn't fully built because it could really be useful today as an alternate to I-75 and US-23. Novi doesn't really need to be the control city just because that's where it ends and according to FHWA it ends at the M-14/I-96 interchange. I believe that MDOT considers it to end at the I-696/I-96/M-5 interchange because that was originally part of I-275 and I-96 was suppose to follow the Grand River Avenue corridor into Detroit but instead got shifted to the I-275 freeway then onto the Jeffries Freeway along Schoolcraft Road.

As Gary said I-696 also has Lansing on it's west end with the same distance to Lansing. This is fine though because the through traffic is generally headed in that direction anyway. It doesn't really need to reach Lansing and Port Huron in that case. I think Michigan's control cities are ok.
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Terry Shea

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Re: I-275: Since It Will Never Go To Pontiac...
« Reply #80 on: Today at 12:01:21 AM »

Another question regarding I-275 in Michigan:

When I-275 first opened in the 70s, there was no control city listed on the signs at the I-75 interchange in Monroe. -- just I-275 NORTH.  The first mention of Flint was near I-94's junction.

Over the years, Flint was added as a control city for the I-75 NB signs.

Meanwhile, on the other end of I-275, Flint was never seen on any overheads at it's northern terminus with I-696.  Only on a supplemental sign.

So why not use Livonia as the main control city for I-275 North instead of Flint?  The last few exits on the I-275 segment which is duplexed with I-96 are all Livonia exits and is one of the largest suburbs in Detroit. 

Or at least list the cc's as Livonia - Flint or Livonia/Metro Airport.

They list Livonia as a control city for M-14 East from both I-94 and US-23...
It really should be Plymouth and Livonia which is what it is at the eastern end of the M-14/US-23 concurrency.
As for I-275, I suspect that Flint is the control city, not a Detroit suburb because: for routing thru traffic from southeastern Michigan between Toledo and Detroit. Because, until recently MDOT still had ideas for the corridor north of the current end of I-275. Once M-5 was completed in the early 2000 did that line of thinking conclude. Third, because Michigan considers I-275 ending in Novi, not Livonia. That would be a better control. Especially with the large shopping area nearby. But, MDOT does not work that way.
Who knows what MDOT thinks or how it works.  Apparently MDOT doesn't even know what MDOT is thinking, planning or doing sometimes.  I say this because the early maps all showed M-5 as being freeway clear up to Pontiac Trail.
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