I-70 in Wheeling decommissioned (April Fools)

[TempoNick]

Why would you flip the numbering? Standard numbering convention is that the mainline goes through the city while the even 3di goes around the city. And how often does taking the 3di around the city add significant travel time?

Because it seems like the natural flow of i-70 would be the way the bypass runs. It also dovetails with the existing roads on either side of it better and it's a more modern piece of road. In fact, if I had to redesign the interstate highway system, I would use the early designs Ohio had where their would be a 20 mi separation between the major cities and where the freeway passes. Local freeways could handle the in town traffic and it wouldn't matter how you signed them.

I-70 runs south of Harrisburg ?,  Hagerstown, Pittsburgh and north of Dayton. Why shouldn't it run south of Wheeling? Why shouldn't it be free flowing everywhere instead of clogged up going through downtown areas?

[SEWIGuy]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

[TempoNick]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

One lane freeways get clogged up everywhere. If US 33 has to be four lane south of Athens because of traffic, I can't imagine I-70 has less of a need for four lanes all the way through.

[SEWIGuy]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

One lane freeways get clogged up everywhere. If US 33 has to be four lane south of Athens because of traffic, I can't imagine I-70 has less of a need for four lanes all the way through.

So you don't know either.

[sprjus4]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

[SEWIGuy]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

So you don't know either.

[sprjus4]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

So you don't know either.

So... you also don't know either 

[TempoNick]

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

Not to mention that Wheeling is also adjacent to several towns in that region such as St Clairsville and Martins Ferry. There's enough population in the area to support a couple of TV stations.

[Terry Shea]

C'mon man.  It was an April Fools joke!

[SEWIGuy]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

So you don't know either.

So... you also don't know either 

Yep. Which is why I asked the question.

[Rothman]

Does Wheeling get "clogged up?"  It has 27,000 people.

Since when does population dictate traffic congestion along a highway? I-95 passes by a town of 3,000 but is still bumper to bumper carrying over 100,000 vehicles per day. Population is irrelevant.

So you don't know either.

So... you also don't know either 

Yep. Which is why I asked the question.

sprjus walked into that one.

Just dawned on me that this thread's on the wrong board.

[roadman65]

I think the Breezewood situation would be remedied before I-70 gets rerouted through Wheeling.

[sprjus4]

sprjus walked into that one.

Just dawned on me that this thread's on the wrong board.

I'm pretty sure that happened with all the April Fool's posts.

[sprjus4]

I think the Breezewood situation would be remedied before I-70 gets rerouted through Wheeling.

Unfortunately, I don't think either will happen. I-70 is fine through Wheeling, IMO, although Breezewood does need to be fixed.

[hotdogPi]

I'm pretty sure that happened with all the April Fool's posts.

This thread isn't in the wrong board because of April Fools. It's because West Virginia belongs in Mid-Atlantic.

[SEWIGuy]

I'm pretty sure that happened with all the April Fool's posts.

This thread isn't in the wrong board because of April Fools. It's because West Virginia belongs in Mid-Atlantic.

We're only talking about the Ohio portion of I-70 and I-470.

[TempoNick]

We're only talking about the Ohio portion of I-70 and I-470.

True.

This is about why should the Ohio side be forced to drive through Wheeling by default. We don't have to drive through downtown St Clairsville or downtown Martins Ferry. What makes Wheeling so special?

[SEWIGuy]

We're only talking about the Ohio portion of I-70 and I-470.

True.

This is about why should the Ohio side be forced to drive through Wheeling by default. We don't have to drive through downtown St Clairsville or downtown Martins Ferry. What makes Wheeling so special?

To be honest, it would be better for everyone to just build a I-70 bridge over West Virginia entirely.

[Dirt Roads]

To be honest, it would be better for everyone to just build a I-70 bridge over West Virginia entirely.

That way it would go directly from the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley forum directly to the Northeast forum, instead of taking that 14.5-mile detour into the Southeast forum.  Now I get it.   

[Ted$8roadFan]

We're only talking about the Ohio portion of I-70 and I-470.

True.

This is about why should the Ohio side be forced to drive through Wheeling by default. We don't have to drive through downtown St Clairsville or downtown Martins Ferry. What makes Wheeling so special?

Knowing West Virginia's political history, I wonder if a Mountain State Senator or Congressman saw to it that I-70 went through Wheeling instead of around Wheeling.

[Dirt Roads]

We're only talking about the Ohio portion of I-70 and I-470.

True.

This is about why should the Ohio side be forced to drive through Wheeling by default. We don't have to drive through downtown St Clairsville or downtown Martins Ferry. What makes Wheeling so special?

Knowing West Virginia's political history, I wonder if a Mountain State Senator or Congressman saw to it that I-70 went through Wheeling instead of around Wheeling.

Neither.  When the Ninth Street Bridge opened to US-40/US-250 traffic between downtown Wheeling and Wheeling in September 1955 (bypassing the legendary Wheeling Suspension Bridge), it was technically the first section of freeway in the Mountain State.  This became the obvious path for I-70, with the State Road Commission preferring a direct eastward extension in what became the Wheeling Tunnel.  AASHO tried to talk the State Road Commission into a longer route following US-40 around the north side of Wheeling Hill. 

For those not convinced that the I-470 routing would have been cheaper than constructing the twin-tube Wheeling Tunnel, the Ninth Street Bridge (now Fort Henry Bridge) took four years to complete in 1955 and cost $6.8M, whereas the Wheeling Tunnel took three years to complete in 1966 and cost a mere $6.9M.  For those doing the math, the midpoint for the Fort Henry Bridge costs was about 1953(1Q) and the midpoint for the tunnels was 1965(3Q).  In today's dollars, the bridge cost roughly $76.7M and the tunnels cost roughly $65.0M.  Hand's down, less expensive to route the Interstate through downtown Wheeling over an existing bridge than to construct a new bridge over the Ohio River. 

On the other hand, the State Road Commission saw the need for a bypass of downtown Wheeling early in the construction of I-70 and started pushing FHWA back in 1958 for an Interstate bypass to be numbered I-270 (oops, Ohio already got that one).  The Vietnam Veterans Memorial bridge wasn't completed until 1983 at a cost of $54.0M.  Originally a six-year project, that would have cost a whopping $249.2M in today's dollars (the opening was delayed because of ODOT issues with the OH-7 interchange, but I'm not sure that this contributed to any additional costs).  But keep in mind, the Fort Henry Bridge only crosses *half* of the Ohio River.

[hbelkins]

Isn't there signage for thru traffic to take I-470, though, including trucks?  Can't remember if it's permanently installed or was only related to the big bridge project downtown.

I mentioned something similar, but you were apparently having too much fun trying to insult me. 

Signage when you're trying to make a split second decision at 75 mph. Everything should be predicated on making it easy for people who aren't familiar with the roads. In other words, travelers from other areas. For local traffic, you can call the road anything you want and give it any number you want. People can figure it out.

If you're going to make it easy for people from outside of the area, you flip the numbering.

Why would you flip the numbering? Standard numbering convention is that the mainline goes through the city while the even 3di goes around the city. And how often does taking the 3di around the city add significant travel time?

You haven't been to Asheville, have you? Or Knoxville? (I'm old enough to remember when there was no I-640 and I-75 ran downtown along what is now I-275 to intersect with I-40 there instead of on the west side of town.)

I remember notations on oil company road maps from my youth that said 3dis with even first numbers were loops into or around the city, while odd first numbers denoted a spur.



Not to brag or anything, but I didn't get taken in by any April Fools jokes I saw anywhere. I was able to discern them right off the bat. (Actually, yes, I guess I am bragging  ).

Would it be possible for someone to go in and add "April Fools" to the subjects of these threads? It might tamp down some of the BS that results from them. In this particular instance, I knew it was a joke, but the subject has seriously come up in the past and no new ground has really been covered in the discussion here.

[swake]

I've never been to Wheeling, but looking at the map and spread of the city it looks more analogous (but not an apples-to-apples) to 70/670 in Kansas City in that 470 doesn't strictly "bypass" Wheeling, but is just an easier route through. I'm aware the local authorities promote 470 for through traffic, but this is similar to other areas like Peoria, IL where IDOT asks thru traffic to use I-474.

As for the 2di vs. 3di, I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all. For Des Moines, it ideally keeps thru traffic for two major interstates out of the city (and I-235 is congested enough without that possibly having been added in had 35/80 been the route put through downtown, though the rationale 65 years ago may have been different than thinking about it in 2023). 44/244 in Tulsa may have been planned with similar thoughts of keeping thru traffic out of the core city. But most states just likely thought their major city/cities should get the 2di through it because it was more important and the city was more important.

I-44 in Tulsa was planned as a southern bypass loop around the outside of the city and I-244 as the highway planned through downtown. The bypass was built first so today it's I-44. Tulsa decades ago outgrew I-44 as a "bypass" and now it's just the dividing line between midtown Tulsa and south Tulsa. 

[Road Hog]

I'm pretty sure that happened with all the April Fool's posts.

This thread isn't in the wrong board because of April Fools. It's because West Virginia belongs in Mid-Atlantic.

The West Virginia German helmet spike belongs to the Midwest as much as it does the Mid-Atlantic, and definitely does not belong to any of the various South discussions.

[TempoNick]

The West Virginia German helmet spike belongs to the Midwest as much as it does the Mid-Atlantic, and definitely does not belong to any of the various South discussions.

Ohio and West Virginia have always had a symbiotic relationship (moreso from the West Virginia side). Ohio is the number one state for outmigration from West Virginia. A well-worn old phrase in West Virginia and Kentucky is  that they teach you the three R's in school: Readin', ritin' and Route 23 (to Columbus for a job). Some say Akron is the capital of West Virginia.

Kentucky is included in this section and I think rightfully so. I think you could also make a case to include West Virginia, though I realize you have to draw the line somewhere.