Interstate 87 (NC-VA)

[sprjus4]

You "think" they are hiding stuff, but you have no solid proof. It's merely a bias guess.

That's the problem when they are hiding stuff, it makes it difficult or impossible to prove, at least in the short-term.

Let's take a look at Virginia - spending $250 million on a freeway that never even got built. Or $200 million on a canceled long-distance freeway bypass to instead upgrade an urban road for local traffic.

That's not even including the debt the state has. I'd like to see those figures, and how much they're sinking in now, especially with the many projects being accelerated, like I-81, I-64, I-95 (well, that's not an issue since Transurban is building all of it), Hampton Roads urban projects worth over $1 billion, another at least $1 billion for proposed HO/T lanes, and so on.

[sprjus4]

I truly feel sorry for VA, was a pretty state and had some pretty decent roads, now, just try to get through it as fast and legally as possible.

If you're not stuck behind truck after truck on 4-lane I-81 for miles. Or sitting at 5 mph on I-95 and I-64.

If Virginia isnt going to put 81 to 6+ lanes, then they could at the very least upgrade the U.S. 29 corridor as they should have done a long time ago. If they had a middle freeway/interstate from D.C. to Charlottesville/Lynchburg/Danville, it'd take a lot of congestion off of not only 81 but also 95.

VDOT is scratching it's head trying to find a mere 6 mile stretch of I-73 south of Martinsville, which is estimated at over $600 million.

At least North Carolina is finishing its part of US-29 between Greensboro - Danville.

VDOT is going to build innovative intersections 

[Beltway]

I-95 is still 6-lanes. I-81 and I-64 are still only 4-lanes. I-73 is still a paper highway in Virginia and South Carolina yet North Carolina has built 90% of its portion, and that's looking at statewide issues. I'm not even talking about the urban congestion issues, which is horrendous, notably Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads.

Get back to us when N.C. has projects of this magnitude and cost to build --
I-64 H.R. bridge-tunnels and expansions
I-664 H.R. bridge-tunnel
I-264 bridge-tunnel
Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
WWB Project
Shirley Highway and various expansions and Springfield Interchange
12-lane Beltway
Metrorail ($1.5 billion for the 30 miles 1969-1991, $5.8 billion for 23 miles Dulles line).

[Beltway]

Let's take a look at Virginia - spending $250 million on a freeway that never even got built. Or $200 million on a canceled long-distance freeway bypass to instead upgrade an urban road for local traffic.

Terry McAullife's corruption and his party, as I have documented in depth.

[Beltway]

If Virginia isnt going to put 81 to 6+ lanes, then they could at the very least upgrade the U.S. 29 corridor as they should have done a long time ago. If they had a middle freeway/interstate from D.C. to Charlottesville/Lynchburg/Danville, it'd take a lot of congestion off of not only 81 but also 95.

Albemarle County / Charlottesville obstructionism stands in the way, as I have documented in the past.

[Beltway]

You "think" they are hiding stuff, but you have no solid proof. It's merely a bias guess.

That's the problem when they are hiding stuff, it makes it difficult or impossible to prove, at least in the short-term.

That's not even including the debt the state has. I'd like to see those figures, and how much they're sinking in now, especially with the many projects being accelerated, like I-81, I-64, I-95 (well, that's not an issue since Transurban is building all of it), Hampton Roads urban projects worth over $1 billion, another at least $1 billion for proposed HO/T lanes, and so on.

Virginia has been open and transparent enough about their bond funding levels, which are considerable.

But you would rather point the finger at someone else than address N.C..

[sprjus4]

Get back to us when N.C. has projects of this magnitude and cost to build --
I-64 H.R. bridge-tunnels and expansions
I-664 H.R. bridge-tunnel
I-264 bridge-tunnel
WWB Project
Shirley Highway and various expansions and Springfield Interchange

All projects mainly federally funded, little from Virginia itself. Your website indicates that Virginia only paid a mere $200 million out of the $2 billion project. Your website also indicates that Virginia only paid 10% in the Springfield Interchange expansion (a mere $67 million), the rest federal aid.

12-lane Beltway
Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
Metrorail ($1.5 billion for the 30 miles 1969-1991, $5.8 billion for 23 miles Dulles line).

Largely toll financed / privatized monies.

What massive undertakings in the state were largely state funded? All of these massive projects received massive amounts of federal aid, something little of North Carolina's projects did. I'd argue North Carolina has spent more on construction than Virginia has strictly looking at state tax-dollars.

[sprjus4]

Terry McAullife's corruption and his party, as I have documented in depth.

Doesn't matter, it's still all apart of the overall funding. A lot of the ongoing issues in North Carolina right now point back to the General Assembly, but I guess we don't consider that when it's not about the Commonwealth? We get a pass for all that?

Albemarle County / Charlottesville obstructionism stands in the way, as I have documented in the past.

Yes, Albemarle County / Charlottesville are the sole reason VDOT isn't building a 200+ US-29 freeway? If they weren't an issue, the corridor would be under construction from Danville to DC?

Like I mentioned before, VDOT is scratching their heads to fund 6-miles of rural freeway that they project will cost north of $600 million.

[sprjus4]

But you would rather point the finger at someone else than address N.C..

Aren't you doing the same thing pointing your finger solely at NC for an ongoing funding issue, and ignoring the countless issues in Virginia?

Looking at state tax-dollar funding, North Carolina has had far more success IMO than Virginia has with freeway construction projects since the 80s, and has built hundreds more miles than Virginia has. Your issues with the state seem to stem from the fact North Carolina wants to extend their statewide freeway system and link the northeastern part of the state to the rest of the state via a 70 mph freeway and providing an alternative (since you claim 0% of traffic will shift from US-58) interstate-grade routing from Hampton Roads to the south (something else VDOT has failed to provide along a more direct corridor, and as far as I'm aware, no Albemarle County is preventing its construction) something that may be foreign in Virginia, but isn't in North Carolina, and your main reasons for strongly opposing it is because it doesn't meet -Virginia's- standards.

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

Only one you could really put in that category is I-74/274, but even that is more of a lack of foresight than anything.

I wouldn't really call I-74 "vanity". The US-52 freeway corridor is a bottleneck thru Winston-Salem, and I-74 will provide a bypass of the city for southwestern Virginia -> central NC thru traffic.

I-274 is debatable.

74 through Winston is not vanity, for sure. The long multiplex with 73 still makes my eye twitch, though. If I were charge, I'd have sent 74 on its proposed route in W-S, then have it curve around to meet I-285. 74 would take over 285 to Lexington, where it would then go on a new-terrain sector past Denton to U.S. 52 at New London, then past Albemarle to Norwood, then another new-terrain sector to Rockingham, then on it's current routing to Wilmington/Myrtle Beach

[sprjus4]

74 through Winston is not vanity, for sure. The long multiplex with 73 still makes my eye twitch, though. If I were charge, I'd have sent 74 on its proposed route in W-S, then have it curve around to meet I-285. 74 would take over 285 to Lexington, where it would then go on a new-terrain sector past Denton to U.S. 52 at New London, then past Albemarle to Norwood, then another new-terrain sector to Rockingham, then on it's current routing to Wilmington/Myrtle Beach

The only thing that is an issue with the I-74 routing is merely that - the path that the designation I-74 follows. The actual freeways built don't change.

And not to sound offensive, but the proposal you lay out for a re-routed I-74 seem to be more vanity than a few on this forum call I-87.

[planxtymcgillicuddy]

74 through Winston is not vanity, for sure. The long multiplex with 73 still makes my eye twitch, though. If I were charge, I'd have sent 74 on its proposed route in W-S, then have it curve around to meet I-285. 74 would take over 285 to Lexington, where it would then go on a new-terrain sector past Denton to U.S. 52 at New London, then past Albemarle to Norwood, then another new-terrain sector to Rockingham, then on it's current routing to Wilmington/Myrtle Beach

The only thing that is an issue with the I-74 routing is merely that - the path that the designation I-74 follows. The actual freeways built don't change.

And not to sound offensive, but the proposal you lay out for a re-routed I-74 seem to be more vanity than a few on this forum call I-87.

I put the routing where it is to avoid that multiplex that really doesnt need to be a multplex. 73 and 74 through this state should be their own separate routes, instead of sharing a route for 30+ miles.

[Beltway]

Get back to us when N.C. has projects of this magnitude and cost to build --
I-64 H.R. bridge-tunnels and expansions
I-664 H.R. bridge-tunnel
I-264 bridge-tunnel
WWB Project
Shirley Highway and various expansions and Springfield Interchange

All projects mainly federally funded, little from Virginia itself. Your website indicates that Virginia only paid a mere $200 million out of the $2 billion project. Your website also indicates that Virginia only paid 10% in the Springfield Interchange expansion (a mere $67 million), the rest federal aid.

Not sure what is the point.

Those projects took a lot of efforts for the state to obtain the approvals for Interstate highway new construction funding.  Plus 10% of a megaproject is still a large sum.

12-lane Beltway
Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel
Metrorail ($1.5 billion for the 30 miles 1969-1991, $5.8 billion for 23 miles Dulles line).

Largely toll financed / privatized monies.

Not Metrorail, a combination of federal, state and local tax dollars.

How many places have built 52 miles of rapid heavy rail transit?

What massive undertakings in the state were largely state funded? All of these massive projects received massive amounts of federal aid, something little of North Carolina's projects did. I'd argue North Carolina has spent more on construction than Virginia has strictly looking at state tax-dollars.

I wasn't aware that N.C. wasn't getting high levels of federal funding for those projects.

If they didn't, then that is their own dumbness, not something to be proud of.

[sprjus4]

I put the routing where it is to avoid that multiplex that really doesnt need to be a multplex. 73 and 74 through this state should be their own separate routes, instead of sharing a route for 30+ miles.

But you don't need to build two routes just to avoid a multiplex, when both routes aren't needed. The existing I-73 / I-74 routing is plenty adequate, two interstates or one signed on it, and in reality, the I-74 designation just needs to go from North Carolina.

[sprjus4]

Plus 10% of a megaproject is still a large sum.

I mean, if Virginia considers $67 million in state tax-dollars for a megaproject a large sum, then I don't know what to say.

then that is their own dumbness, not something to be proud of.

Yes, it's their dumbness that the federal government decided to not give them a high percentage. Totally makes sense.

The only federal aid advantage VDOT got was with the more recent Woodrow Wilson Bridge Replacement and Springfield Interchange, and those projects have far more traffic-wise national warrants. North Carolina's projects are mainly state and locally significant.

The others were projects from the 60s - 90s, and federal aid was a frequent and expected thing then.

Virginia added auxiliary urban routes to the interstate system in the 1968 additions, while North Carolina added similar mileage to build about 170 miles of I-40 between I-85 and Wilmington (the segment between I-85 and US-70 essentially serves as not only a long-distance route but an urban route for the Raleigh-Durham area) and widened 35 miles of I-85 between Greensboro and Raleigh from 4 lanes to 8 lanes. Winston-Salem's southern bypass, now I-40, received 90-10 funding in the 90s.

Virginia used it's 1968 additions to build urban routes and has then remained static about adding any more additions, and no long-distance freeways, and North Carolina used it's 1968 additions to build a single long-distance interstate highway across the eastern part of the state, AND has been building urban routes and catching up utilizing their own funding, AND has been additional long-distance freeway corridors, again utilizing state funding, something VDOT has not done.

[Beltway]

Plus 10% of a megaproject is still a large sum.

I mean, if Virginia considers $67 million in state tax-dollars for a megaproject a large sum, then I don't know what to say.

Probably looking at about $250 to $300 million for the projects I listed, and at the prices back then.

A not inconsiderable sum of state matching funding.

then that is their own dumbness, not something to be proud of.

Yes, it's their dumbness that the federal government decided to not give them a high percentage. Totally makes sense.

That could be because of inadequate governmental lobbying ability, and a failure to obtain the federal funding levels that most states get.

That would not be something to be proud of.

This is assuming that they in fact didn't get high levels of federal aid on those projects ...

[Rothman]

The idea that federal money replaces state money is really not fully accurate.

States are apportioned federal funds.  Although I'd imagine some sort of grant or earmarks also applied to the VA megaprojects Beltway listed, VA still had discretion where to spend its core federal funds.  They could have spent the funding in a myriad of other ways, but chose to spend it on those projects. 

VA still had to put up the first instance funding and because the federal funds are apportioned, the federal funds were essentially their money as well.

[Finrod]

Another article this morning regarding the poor condition of the signs on US-64 in the Rocky Mount area.

http://www.rockymounttelegram.com/News/2019/11/12/Appearance-woes-plague-U-S-64.html

The link to the article is broken. Even after searching on Google, it still comes broken...

Site down?

What was in the article?

Yeah, I noticed it too just now. Apparently, they changed the website layout after I posted the link and now I can't find it either.

Anyway, the gist of it is that the signs on US-64 in Nash County, particularly in the Nashville/Momeyer area, are in really bad shape (one of which has half missing) and NCDOT is blaming the funding problem for not fixing/replacing them even though some of the signs had been in poor shape for a long time.

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

[MNHighwayMan]

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

I'm not him, but yes, that is largely the same article that was posted before. It seems to have been edited a bit.

[LM117]

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

I'm not him, but yes, that is largely the same article that was posted before. It seems to have been edited a bit.

Yep, that's it.

[sprjus4]

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

I'm not him, but yes, that is largely the same article that was posted before. It seems to have been edited a bit.

Yep, that's it.

That's pretty sad they can't even get signage up. At least put temporary signage if anything.

This funding shortage isn't good for anybody. Hopefully within a few months, things can return back to normal, routine maintenance fully funded, and projects back on into planning.

[NE2]

At least put temporary signage if anything.

Isn't that what the SR 1306 plate is?

[sprjus4]

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

I'm not him, but yes, that is largely the same article that was posted before. It seems to have been edited a bit.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191112085243/https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/2019/11/12/appearance-woes-plague-u-s-64.html

Here's the original article thanks to archive.org. Looks the same.

[sprjus4]

At least put temporary signage if anything.

Isn't that what the SR 1306 plate is?

No. That's always been there.

The sign actually read "Momeyer", a town located just north of the freeway.

SR-1306 isn't informative like the sign that listed the town.

[MNHighwayMan]

Is this the article you were referring to?

https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/local/local-dot-rep-concerned-about-u-s-s-appearance-in/article_c24b602e-62f8-5cc4-9456-e5fe00534754.html

I'm not him, but yes, that is largely the same article that was posted before. It seems to have been edited a bit.

https://web.archive.org/web/20191112085243/https://www.rockymounttelegram.com/news/2019/11/12/appearance-woes-plague-u-s-64.html

Here's the original article thanks to archive.org. Looks the same.

Oh, I guess it's just formatted differently.