Florida Toll Roads

[Guysdrive780]

Florida has more toll roads than any state. My question is why? Why are there toll roads everywhere? Are they rip offs? Is Florida a bad state?

Only one on an interstate which curves to Miami for some reason. The Florida Turnpike once it gets to I-95 you might as well get off and get on to 95. Will they extend it to Tallahassee?

[NE2]

High population growth since the Interstate system was planned. Arizona built free roads (presumably by raising taxes) but Florida went with toll roads.

(Florida's Turnpike and Alligator Alley are different, since they predate the Interstates. The former is a typical pre-Interstate toll road like in the Northeast and Midwest, while the latter was an expensive road across the middle of nowhere.)

And yes, Florida is a bad state, but not because of toll roads.

[DeaconG]

Folks don't want their taxes raised to get the roads built, so this is the way they go.  In truth, there aren't many more toll roads being built here (the Wekiva Parkway add-on to make SR 417 a full beltway around Orlando along with SR 429, the Poinciana Parkway and a couple of others that escape me right now), what you're seeing now is the introduction of HOT lanes more than anything (I-95 in Miami, the reversible lanes on the Lee Roy Selmon and eventually I-4 in Orlando).

There are plans to expand existing toll roads (both the SunCoast and the Holland East-West have plans in place for expansion), but I don't see any wholesale building of more toll roads anytime soon.  Of course, this is Florida-"the rules are different here"...

I'm sure NE2 knows a damn sight more about it off the top of his head than I do, so I'll defer to him.

[formulanone]

There's far too many in the Orlando area. As someone who lived in other areas of the state, you're seemingly given no choices but I-4 for toll-free commuting upon great distances within that region. Unless you're using them for three-mile stints, they're not too expensive, end-to-end, if taking them infrequently.

Turnpike is sort of an exception, but it could stand to be widened to six lanes in many areas that have grown terrifically in the past sixty years. There's a few miles of the Homestead Extension which is a three-mile-long parking lot every night. Tolls remained constant for many years, but they've crept up gradually in the past five years. Electronic tolling customers kept somewhat lower prices than cash-paying users. I guess it's about $20 for 312 miles, from start to finish, and saves time. There's areas one could shunpike, some to save time, or others for a more scenic trip.

Road surfaces and safety is pretty much interstate-standard throughout (a few legacy sections here and there). Unless there's a boom in the Big Bend/northern Nature Coast area, I don't see the Turnpike getting an northern extension to US 19, let alone I-10. It's a rather empty region of the state (north of Spring Hill, west of Gainesville, south of Tallahassee).

[NE2]

Here's the toll mileage by state as of 2013:
Florida   719.46
Oklahoma   604.9
Pennsylvania   596.7
New York   567.6
Texas   502.18
Illinois   374.53
New Jersey   359.85
Ohio   241.2
Kansas   236
Puerto Rico   213.63
Indiana   157
Massachusetts   138.2
California   134.8
Maine   108.18
New Hampshire   99.4
West Virginia   86.8
Colorado   84
Utah   62.9
Virginia   58.57
Delaware   56.72
Maryland   27.63
Minnesota   27
South Carolina   23.5
Washington   14.48
North Carolina   12.6
Vermont   11.9
Alabama   8.53
Nevada   6.37
Georgia   6.2
Louisiana   1.5


Miles per million people:
Oklahoma   161.2
Kansas   82.7
Maine   81.4
New Hampshire   75.1
Delaware   63.2
Puerto Rico   57.3
Pennsylvania   47.0
West Virginia   46.8
New Jersey   40.9
Florida   38.3
New York   29.3
Illinois   29.2
Indiana   24.2
Utah   22.8
Massachusetts   21.1
Ohio   20.9
Texas   20.0
Vermont   19.0
Colorado   16.7
Virginia   7.3
Minnesota   5.1
South Carolina   5.1
Maryland   4.8
California   3.6
Nevada   2.4
Washington   2.2
Alabama   1.8
North Carolina   1.3
Georgia   0.6
Louisiana   0.3


Miles per 10,000 mi^2 of land area:
Puerto Rico   624.0
New Jersey   489.3
Delaware   291.1
Massachusetts   177.2
Florida   134.2
Pennsylvania   133.4
New York   120.4
New Hampshire   111.0
Oklahoma   88.2
Illinois   67.5
Ohio   59.0
Indiana   43.8
West Virginia   36.1
Maine   35.1
Kansas   28.9
Maryland   28.5
Texas   19.2
Virginia   14.8
Vermont   12.9
California   8.7
Colorado   8.1
South Carolina   7.8
Utah   7.7
Minnesota   3.4
North Carolina   2.6
Washington   2.2
Alabama   1.7
Georgia   1.1
Nevada   0.6
Louisiana   0.3



Miles per sqrt(10,000*land area in mi^2) - this is probably more meaningful than the previous one:
New Jersey   419.6
Puerto Rico   365.1
Florida   310.7
Pennsylvania   282.1
New York   261.5
Oklahoma   231.0
Illinois   159.0
Massachusetts   156.5
Delaware   128.5
Ohio   119.3
New Hampshire   105.1
Texas   98.3
Indiana   82.9
Kansas   82.5
Maine   61.6
West Virginia   56.0
California   34.2
Virginia   29.5
Maryland   28.0
Colorado   26.1
Utah   21.9
South Carolina   13.6
Vermont   12.4
Minnesota   9.6
North Carolina   5.7
Washington   5.6
Alabama   3.8
Georgia   2.6
Nevada   1.9
Louisiana   0.7


Miles per 10,000 miles of public road (as of 2012):
Puerto Rico   128.0
New Jersey   91.6
Delaware   88.9
New Hampshire   61.7
Florida   59.1
Oklahoma   53.6
Pennsylvania   49.8
New York   49.5
Maine   47.3
Massachusetts   38.0
Illinois   25.9
West Virginia   22.4
Ohio   19.6
Kansas   16.8
Indiana   16.1
Texas   16.0
Utah   13.7
Colorado   9.5
Maryland   8.5
Vermont   8.3
Virginia   7.9
California   7.7
South Carolina   3.5
Minnesota   1.9
Washington   1.7
Nevada   1.7
North Carolina   1.2
Alabama   0.8
Georgia   0.5
Louisiana   0.2


So no matter what you divide by, New Jersey and Puerto Rico beat Florida.

[Guysdrive780]

I see Texas but Oklahoma. umm Badly maintained roads even the toll roads are badly maintain and don't look interstate standards. But that's a topic for another time.

So people who don't want taxes raised set themselves up for toll roads. There are so many. How many are there?

[adventurernumber1]

I personally really don't know why Florida has so many toll roads. An opinion from my parents is because it gets so many visitors/tourists, from the beaches to all the parks in Orlando to a huge retirement hub (that is included in the sense that people would be visiting their parents or grandparents or whoever). I've also heard so many tolls were built in Orlando to stop suburban sprawl, but it's pretty darn clear that didn't work 

Unless there's a boom in the Big Bend/northern Nature Coast area, I don't see the Turnpike getting an northern extension to US 19, let alone I-10. It's a rather empty region of the state (north of Spring Hill, west of Gainesville, south of Tallahassee).

I agree. I think it'd be cool for the FL Turnpike to be extended to Tallahassee, and I've even made my own route proposals for the possible extension. But in reality, there's no need at all, unless, like you said, that region suddenly starts quickly growing. Right now taking I-75 to I-10 is perfectly fine, as far as Im concerned.

Also, NE2, thank you for posting those statistics. Those are quite interesting.

[NE2]

I've also heard so many tolls were built in Orlando to stop suburban sprawl, but it's pretty darn clear that didn't work 

Bahaha. The toll roads help sprawl (with the possible exception of the Wekiva Parkway).

The main reason what would be Interstate spurs in many states are toll roads is population patterns: Florida simply wasn't as populated in the 1950s.

[cpzilliacus]

Here's the toll mileage by state as of 2013:
Maryland   27.63

I don't think that is correct. 

I-895 (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway and spurs) - 17 miles
I-95 (Fort McHenry Tunnel and approaches) - 10 miles
I-695 (F. S. Key Bridge and approaches) - 10 miles
U.S. 301 (Harry Nice Memorial Bridge) - 2 miles
U.S. 40 (Hatem Bridge) - between 1 and 2 miles
U.S. 50/U.S. 301 (William Preson Lane, Jr. Memorial Bridge and approaches) - about 5 or 6 miles
I-95 (JFK Highway) - about 48 miles
Md. 200 (ICC) - about 18 miles

[NE2]

Here's the toll mileage by state as of 2013:
Maryland   27.63

I don't think that is correct. 

I-895 (Baltimore Harbor Tunnel Thruway and spurs) - 17 miles
I-95 (Fort McHenry Tunnel and approaches) - 10 miles
I-695 (F. S. Key Bridge and approaches) - 10 miles
U.S. 301 (Harry Nice Memorial Bridge) - 2 miles
U.S. 40 (Hatem Bridge) - between 1 and 2 miles
U.S. 50/U.S. 301 (William Preson Lane, Jr. Memorial Bridge and approaches) - about 5 or 6 miles
I-95 (JFK Highway) - about 48 miles
Md. 200 (ICC) - about 18 miles

I didn't count bridges and tunnels, as classified by the FHWA. That includes the JFK (the only toll portion is the Susquehanna bridge) and the Harbor Tunnel Thruway. But they do include the I-95 express lanes, which aren't open yet? You can calculate it differently if you wish.

[kj3400]

I feel like 895 south of Lombard St would count considering you can't leave the roadway until you pass the toll booth. But I don't know.

[cpzilliacus]

I feel like 895 south of Lombard St would count considering you can't leave the roadway until you pass the toll booth. But I don't know.

If it shows in the State Highway Administration's Highway Location Reference as TOLL MAINTENANCE, then it is maintained by MdTA, even if they do not get to charge a toll of drivers.

[hotdogPi]

New Hampshire has 151.3 miles?

Here's what I find:

I-95 from exits 1 to 3 (12 miles)
NH 16 from exits 6 to 7 (4 miles)
NH 16 from exits 9 to 12 (6 miles)
I-93 from exit 10 to I-89 (9 miles)
Everett Turnpike from exits 8 to 12 (10 miles)
Mount Washington Auto Rd, on a technicality (7 miles)

Total: 48 miles, not 151.3 miles. It decreases to 41 miles if not counting Mount Washington Auto Rd.

[NE2]

New Hampshire has 151.3 miles?

I included a link to the source. Which apparently double-counts the Spaulding Turnpike and the Interstate portion of the Everett Turnpike, and includes all toll-maintained mileage whether or not you have to pay. Fixed the former issue; the latter is not something I'm dealing with.

People, before complaining about my figures, check the source.

[DeaconG]

There's far too many in the Orlando area. As someone who lived in other areas of the state, you're seemingly given no choices but I-4 for toll-free commuting upon great distances within that region. Unless you're using them for three-mile stints, they're not too expensive, end-to-end, if taking them infrequently.

Turnpike is sort of an exception, but it could stand to be widened to six lanes in many areas that have grown terrifically in the past sixty years. There's a few miles of the Homestead Extension which is a three-mile-long parking lot every night. Tolls remained constant for many years, but they've crept up gradually in the past five years. Electronic tolling customers kept somewhat lower prices than cash-paying users. I guess it's about $20 for 312 miles, from start to finish, and saves time. There's areas one could shunpike, some to save time, or others for a more scenic trip.

Road surfaces and safety is pretty much interstate-standard throughout (a few legacy sections here and there). Unless there's a boom in the Big Bend/northern Nature Coast area, I don't see the Turnpike getting an northern extension to US 19, let alone I-10. It's a rather empty region of the state (north of Spring Hill, west of Gainesville, south of Tallahassee).

No duh; the Beachline is killing me.  If I were to get hired back on the Space Coast it's an 85 cent/hour pay raise for me ($7 daily with rebates). I'd take the 408 but SR 50 is a madhouse with the widening construction.

I don't see any new toll road construction on the horizon (outside of the Poinciana Parkway-and WHY?), not after they whacked the First Coast Outer Beltway plan in Jacksonville. However, this is Florida...

[roadman65]

Remember the one toll plaza there is just doing the opposite of what was done when the eliminated the SR 520 mainline plaza.  The Dallas Boulevard mainline now functions as what the SR 520 plaza did, basically when you look at it.  As NE 2 scolded at me years ago when I made a thread about the OOCEA, there really was not an increase in tolls, but just a simple redistribution for when (or if) Eastern Orange County gets urbanized the tolls will more fair to those using it.

[02 Park Ave]

A spur of the Florida Turnpike should be built from Ocala to Jacksonville.  Are there any plans being developed?

[DeaconG]

Remember the one toll plaza there is just doing the opposite of what was done when the eliminated the SR 520 mainline plaza.  The Dallas Boulevard mainline now functions as what the SR 520 plaza did, basically when you look at it.  As NE 2 scolded at me years ago when I made a thread about the OOCEA, there really was not an increase in tolls, but just a simple redistribution for when (or if) Eastern Orange County gets urbanized the tolls will more fair to those using it.

The whole point of the Dallas Boulevard toll booth is to get folks in Avalon Park to use the Beachline; since they've split the booths I've noticed an increase of the number of cars that use the International Corporate Park exit.  Now, when they finally convert the Dallas Blvd exit to a full diamond like they promised, I'll be surprised.  As it is, if you live in Wedgefield and you want to get to Brevard County your only option is SR 50.

[adventurernumber1]

A spur of the Florida Turnpike should be built from Ocala to Jacksonville.  Are there any plans being developed?

Though this isn't desperately needed, I just came up with a solution to both this and also the possibility of FL 91 (the Turnpike) being extended to Tallahassee.

I have come up with two route proposals for extensions to both FL 91 and FL 589 (btw I don't think this is going too off-topic since the title of the thread is "Florida Toll Roads," heh): http://prntscr.com/57i08m

Basically, extend FL 91 to Tallahassee, and extend FL 589 to Jacksonville. If there is a desired limited-access connection from Ocala to Jacksonville, then one can take I-75 Northbound to the extended FL 589 in Gainesville. That way, both Ocala and Gainesville could have an efficient limited-access connection to Jacksonville. I think these proposals create a solution here.

[Duke87]

"Everything in Florida is tolled" is a perception that I think is created by the fact that the vast majority of freeways in Orlando and Miami are tolled. New Jersey may beat Florida in terms of toll mileage compared to what have you in an overall sense, but if you drill down further Florida disproportionately concentrates its toll roads in its most urban and most touristy areas. Imagine for a second that NJ3, NJ4, NJ17, NJ19, NJ21, NJ24, NJ208, NJ440, the Palisades, the Skyway, I-280, and I-78 east of I-287 were all tolled but the Turnpike was free south of exit 6, the Parkway was free south of exit 117, and the Expressway was completely free. Then New Jersey would look more like Florida in terms of tolls.

[formulanone]

New Jersey proper isn't so bad - it's those darn bridges that lead to New York City which cost a King's ransom and take up a Congress' wait.

[US 41]

Florida has more toll roads than any state. My question is why? Why are there toll roads everywhere? Are they rip offs? Is Florida a bad state?

Only one on an interstate which curves to Miami for some reason. The Florida Turnpike once it gets to I-95 you might as well get off and get on to 95. Will they extend it to Tallahassee?

I don't see why one wouldn't take 95 where it parallels the turnpike. The turnpike however does bypass Miami in a way, whereas 95 just ends in downtown.

As for driving from Naples to Miami, I being cheap, would probably take US 41.

In Florida's defense though, I think all the interstates in the country should be toll roads, as long as there is a close free alternative to the interstate. Like SR 66 in Oklahoma is a free alternative to I-44.

If the interstate is an improvement of an existing highway (like SR 37 and I-69 in Indiana) I think it should be free, since the existing road was free.

[exit322]

A spur of the Florida Turnpike should be built from Ocala to Jacksonville.  Are there any plans being developed?

Well, it'd be cheaper than getting caught doing 36 in a 35 in Lawtey or Waldo, I guess (though for when I go through there, if they're pulling me over, it isn't going to be for speeding)

[roadman65]

Remember the one toll plaza there is just doing the opposite of what was done when the eliminated the SR 520 mainline plaza.  The Dallas Boulevard mainline now functions as what the SR 520 plaza did, basically when you look at it.  As NE 2 scolded at me years ago when I made a thread about the OOCEA, there really was not an increase in tolls, but just a simple redistribution for when (or if) Eastern Orange County gets urbanized the tolls will more fair to those using it.

The whole point of the Dallas Boulevard toll booth is to get folks in Avalon Park to use the Beachline; since they've split the booths I've noticed an increase of the number of cars that use the International Corporate Park exit.  Now, when they finally convert the Dallas Blvd exit to a full diamond like they promised, I'll be surprised.  As it is, if you live in Wedgefield and you want to get to Brevard County your only option is SR 50.

That should be easy, as all they need to do is a plain ramp as there is no ramp toll there.

Right now the CFX is concentrating on tolling the McCoy/ Boggy Creek and Tradeport/ Conway ramps to remove the Airport mainline, so upgrading that Dallas Boulevard interchange is probably furthest from their minds right now anyway.

[jwolfer]

A spur of the Florida Turnpike should be built from Ocala to Jacksonville.  Are there any plans being developed?

Well, it'd be cheaper than getting caught doing 36 in a 35 in Lawtey or Waldo, I guess (though for when I go through there, if they're pulling me over, it isn't going to be for speeding)

Waldo police force has been disbanded.  I was surprised to read the police chief had qoutas for tickets( sarcasm)