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kalvado:

--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---^ And on a more meta level, the whole level scheme is kinda hokey.  I think I get where they're going with it (with the A and B referring to additional amenities with the number being the base), but 2A and 2B have more common with everything level 3 than with the base level 2 (hence why I use "level 3" to refer to everything above the base level 2).  And if we're getting technical, maybe Chittenango should actually be "level 1A" given that CFA is closed on Sundays, leaving it with just Starbucks one day out of every week.

As for the distribution, there seems to be a thought of "bigger service areas leaving a metro area, smaller ones further into the journey" for whatever reason.  It's not even a recent thought, given that Ardsley exists and has no SB counterpart.  This is visible even in NYSDOT rest areas; see Clifton Park (no SB counterpart) and the Adirondack Welcome Center (bigger and more modern than Glens Falls SB).

Just checked the project page, and they've updated the reopening dates for all of them.  Looks like they hit a MASSIVE delay at some point, as the renovations went from opening early next year to the end of next year, and Angola was pushed back to 2025 (many of the others slipped by a quarter or two as well).  So much for having the bulk of the system back online for the summer travel season next year.

--- End quote ---
It probably makes sense if you are looking at traffic numbers only. But I am not likely to stop other than for gas if I am within an hour from the origin city. It's long haul traffic who needs these services. I can see a stop "I am finally out of NYC mess" being popular, but not for other upstate cities.

lstone19:

--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---As for the distribution, there seems to be a thought of "bigger service areas leaving a metro area, smaller ones further into the journey" for whatever reason.  It's not even a recent thought, given that Ardsley exists and has no SB counterpart.  This is visible even in NYSDOT rest areas; see Clifton Park (no SB counterpart) and the Adirondack Welcome Center (bigger and more modern than Glens Falls SB).

--- End quote ---

There used to be a SB rest area near Clifton Park but undesirable activities (at least in the eyes of NYSDOT) were happening there at night (it was a hangout of some sort) so it was bulldozed. I believe it was between exits 11 and 10 just north of MP 17 and today is marked only by the trees being father back from the road.

webny99:

--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---^ And on a more meta level, the whole level scheme is kinda hokey.  I think I get where they're going with it (with the A and B referring to additional amenities with the number being the base), but 2A and 2B have more common with everything level 3 than with the base level 2 (hence why I use "level 3" to refer to everything above the base level 2).  And if we're getting technical, maybe Chittenango should actually be "level 1A" given that CFA is closed on Sundays, leaving it with just Starbucks one day out of every week.
--- End quote ---

I am fully on board with just referring to all level 2A/2B service areas as level 3. That would greatly simplify things.

And, regarding Chittenango, I think the choice of CFA plus the fact it's the only WB area between Utica and Syracuse means it's pretty clearly the worst level 2 of them all. Did they not consider traffic heading west from Utica/Rome, or that it's popular place for cross-state travelers to stop? I think I've been to Chittenango more than any other WB service area in the entire state save maybe Angola, but now it may be out of the question during busy travel periods.




--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---Just checked the project page, and they've updated the reopening dates for all of them.  Looks like they hit a MASSIVE delay at some point, as the renovations went from opening early next year to the end of next year, and Angola was pushed back to 2025 (many of the others slipped by a quarter or two as well).  So much for having the bulk of the system back online for the summer travel season next year.

--- End quote ---

That does seem to be the case, which is a bummer. Especially for Angola, which is the only service area west of Buffalo in either direction. I'm also curious what happened to "no two consecutive areas closed" with both Mohawk and Guilderland being closed. With Modena seemingly being restrooms and fuel only while waiting for Ramapo to reopen, New Baltimore is the only full size east/southbound service area open east of Clifton Springs (which is just insane for a 300+ mile stretch of toll highway)!

kalvado:

--- Quote from: webny99 on December 03, 2023, 02:11:00 PM ---


--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---Just checked the project page, and they've updated the reopening dates for all of them.  Looks like they hit a MASSIVE delay at some point, as the renovations went from opening early next year to the end of next year, and Angola was pushed back to 2025 (many of the others slipped by a quarter or two as well).  So much for having the bulk of the system back online for the summer travel season next year.

--- End quote ---

That does seem to be the case, which is a bummer. Especially for Angola, which is the only service area west of Buffalo in either direction. I'm also curious what happened to "no two consecutive areas closed" with both Mohawk and Guilderland being closed. With Modena seemingly being restrooms and fuel only while waiting for Ramapo to reopen, New Baltimore is the only full size east/southbound service area open east of Clifton Springs (which is just insane for a 300+ mile stretch of toll highway)!

--- End quote ---
Blackmailing governor for the bailout package they did not get?

webny99:

--- Quote from: kalvado on December 02, 2023, 09:37:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: vdeane on December 02, 2023, 09:27:57 PM ---As for the distribution, there seems to be a thought of "bigger service areas leaving a metro area, smaller ones further into the journey" for whatever reason.  It's not even a recent thought, given that Ardsley exists and has no SB counterpart.  This is visible even in NYSDOT rest areas; see Clifton Park (no SB counterpart) and the Adirondack Welcome Center (bigger and more modern than Glens Falls SB).


--- End quote ---
It probably makes sense if you are looking at traffic numbers only. But I am not likely to stop other than for gas if I am within an hour from the origin city. It's long haul traffic who needs these services. I can see a stop "I am finally out of NYC mess" being popular, but not for other upstate cities.

--- End quote ---

It's definitely not based on roadway traffic volume, as Seneca is only a level 2 despite being on the busiest section between Buffalo and Albany. It does make a little more sense when thinking of it in terms of travelers leaving a metro area (Clifton Springs does seem to be notably busier than Port Byron, for example) but the problem is that through traffic doesn't always tail off the further you get from a metro area, especially when you're approaching an even bigger one. I am intrigued by the line of thinking that most travelers aren't looking to make a stop as they approach a large city. While there are a number of good reasons why that could be (the upcoming city is their destination, they're making other stops in the area anyways, they're switching to a different route like I-81 or the Northway, etc.), it seems to ignore travelers on longer cross-state or multi-state trips.


With all that in mind, while I would have obviously preferred for all areas to be level 3, I think the smaller ones can be justified with the following exceptions:
1) Chittenango, as discussed in my previous post
2) The three consecutive level 2's east of Utica (ironically, if Utica got the "major city" treatment, both this and Chittenango would be solved!)
3) Junius Ponds and Seneca both being level 2. Warners is too close to Syracuse to be the only level 3 between Syracuse and Rochester. If there can only be one larger one, it should have been Junius Ponds, not Warners

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