News:

Thank you for your patience during the Forum downtime while we upgraded the software. Welcome back and see this thread for some new features and other changes to the forum.

Main Menu

Quebec's Highways

Started by Stojko, February 04, 2010, 06:56:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Stephane Dumas

The Perrault Covered bridge althought it's now closed to auto traffic but it's now used for cyclists in summer and snowmobiles in winter is now restaured.
https://pontscouverts.com/blogue/2023/01/19/cet-hiver-on-retrouve-notre-pont-couvert/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKaPDS_BEtE


Richard3

Is it just me, or the "3rd link between Quebec City and Lévis" webpage had completely disappeared from the MTQ website?
- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

- What Quebec highways and Montreal Canadiens have in common?
- Rebuilding.

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: Richard3 on February 03, 2023, 01:43:53 AM
Is it just me, or the "3rd link between Quebec City and Lévis" webpage had completely disappeared from the MTQ website?

It's not your imagination, the 3rd link is gone.

Richard3

A first lot of works on A-55 twinning to start in 2023.

You can see a map of the entire project by clicking here.

A first call for tenders was published for works on A-55 twinning project.  The lot A consists in about 1 kilometer section of carriageway and the building of a rain water retention bassin, that will be vegetalized in order to create a habitat for wildlife. The goal is to start those works along summer of 2023.

Works on the entire project, divided in 5 different lots, began last winter with tree cutting, and will extend until 2028, with some sections opening to traffic by 2025.

You can see the official press release (in french) by clicking here.
- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

- What Quebec highways and Montreal Canadiens have in common?
- Rebuilding.

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

compdude787

Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 03, 2023, 11:59:01 AM
Quote from: Richard3 on February 03, 2023, 01:43:53 AM
Is it just me, or the "3rd link between Quebec City and Lévis" webpage had completely disappeared from the MTQ website?

It's not your imagination, the 3rd link is gone.

Is this referring to the highway tunnel that was proposed to go under the river between these two cities downstream of the existing two bridges?

Richard3

Quote from: compdude787 on April 12, 2023, 02:21:50 AM
Quote from: Stephane Dumas on February 03, 2023, 11:59:01 AM
Quote from: Richard3 on February 03, 2023, 01:43:53 AM
Is it just me, or the "3rd link between Quebec City and Lévis" webpage had completely disappeared from the MTQ website?

It's not your imagination, the 3rd link is gone.

Is this referring to the highway tunnel that was proposed to go under the river between these two cities downstream of the existing two bridges?

Absolutely.  First, the CAQ (Coalition Avenir Quebec, the actual governing party) promised a bridge, or a tunnel, passing at the westernmost point of Orleans Island, but opposition was yelling about urban sprawl to be brought by that link.  Then they came back with another proposition; a big 3-lane per direction tunnel done by a digger that would be the world's biggest tunnel digger in the world.  That tunnel was to link Quebec City and Levis downtowns. This time, opposition yelled about the price tag (between 6 and 10 billion $).  So they came back with a smaller two-tube tunnel, on the same ROW, so linking the two downtowns, with 2 lanes per direction, with special lane control, in order to have a reserved lane for mass transit on rush hours.  But guess what? Opposition yelled again, this time about pollution, too heavy for Quebec City downtown.  The premier Legault told that some new traffic studies are on hands of the Transportation minister, and are to be published soon.  But for now, I just checked the MTQ website, and there's no mention about the 3rd link project.
- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

- What Quebec highways and Montreal Canadiens have in common?
- Rebuilding.

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

MikeTheActuary


vdeane

Is Québec pro-congestion or something?  Between this and the small size (relative to AADT) of the Pont Champlain makes it seem like they tolerate higher congestion levels than we would in the US.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Stephane Dumas

Quote from: vdeane on April 20, 2023, 08:42:04 PM
Is Québec pro-congestion or something?  Between this and the small size (relative to AADT) of the Pont Champlain makes it seem like they tolerate higher congestion levels than we would in the US.

Some politicians, bureaucrats as well as artists are more pro-transit and anti-car. They like to see Quebec city investing in a tramway where I got the feeling then it might be a white elephant but that's a story for another thread.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: vdeane on April 20, 2023, 08:42:04 PM
Is Québec pro-congestion or something?
Yes. I would know, I've been stuck countless times in traffic in this damn city.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

vdeane

I looked at the Google Maps traffic around 3:30 today.  A-73 sud was colored mauve for a bit over a km around the A-540 merge approaching the bridge.  This is "too little traffic to justify another crossing"?  The Capital District is around the same size and the idea of anything being mauve at 3:30 without a crash is unthinkable here.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

andrepoiy

#686
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2023, 10:27:41 PM
I looked at the Google Maps traffic around 3:30 today.  A-73 sud was colored mauve for a bit over a km around the A-540 merge approaching the bridge.  This is "too little traffic to justify another crossing"?  The Capital District is around the same size and the idea of anything being mauve at 3:30 without a crash is unthinkable here.

The last time I was in Quebec City, that section of A-73 has major long-term construction going on, so it makes sense why it would be mauve-coloured. If I remember correctly, on the approach to the bridge, the lanes are narrowed, shoulders removed, and on-ramps have no acceleration space at all.

edit: ah yes I found the link to the project: https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/projets-infrastructures/reseau-routier/projets-routiers/capitale-nationale/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts/Pages/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts.aspx

Richard3

The Quebec City's 3rd link is a story by itself.

Discussions exists since the 1960s about a 3rd link, but that was just bla bla.  In 2018, seeing the trafic is going dense on the bridges, and the old Quebec Bridge going more and more eaten by rust, the new provincial political party CAQ (for Coalition Avenir Quebec, that means union for Quebec's future) promised a 3rd link between Quebec City and Levis, with works begun by the end of the 4-year mandate.  CAQ won the election, but COVID-19 changed all the plans.

So the oppositions saw many ways to stop the project; the first proposition was to cross the river at the westernmost point of Orleans Island; oppositions rejected it because the risk of urban sprawl on South Shore.  The second proposition was spectacular; a single-tube tunnel, linking both downtowns, bored with what would be the biggest tunnel-digger in the world, with three lanes of highway in each direction. Everyone was enthusiastic, at least until the price tag was published; between 6 and 10 billion CA$.  At that point, nobody wanted it; too expensive.  So the government came back with a third proposition; a two-tube tunnel with two lanes per direction, and a lane-management system, in order to have one reserved lane for mass transit on rush hours.  This time, oppositions revealed that air quality, on Quebec City side, would be affected by all this traffic coming from South Shore.  So now, the government try to drown the fish by calling a fourth proposition; a tunnel reserved for mass-transit only.  But with no idea of the transit system used (buses, trains), no idea of the path, and especially no idea of the price tag.

The main problem, with that link, is the price tag.  The St. Lawrence River, between the two downtowns, is about half a mile large and about 50 to 60 feet deep, so a tunnel must be long, to avoid hills too steep, and expensive, whatever how many lanes you want to build.  And road works are exponentially expensive in province of Quebec; that doesn't help.

It's sure that if you take actual traffic figures, there's almost no need for another link between the two cities.  But knowing it will take at least ten years to build, projections must be made for 20, even for 50 years, before scrapping that project; I'm not sure that the gouvernment take predictions for so long.  On the other hand, a mass-transit-only tunnel will benefit to who?  Almost only to those who take the ferry. I'm not sure that people coming from South Shore, out of Levis, will leave their car in a parking lot to take a mass-transit tunnel to cross the river.  It will be like the Orange metro line between Laval and Montreal; who take the metro in Laval?  People who took buses before.  With that new metro line open since many years, there was no significant decrease in traffic figures on bridges between Laval and Montreal.

Anyway, you know what happens with a bridge project; before building it, nobody wants it, but once built, everybody takes it.
- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

- What Quebec highways and Montreal Canadiens have in common?
- Rebuilding.

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

vdeane

Quote from: andrepoiy on April 22, 2023, 02:16:05 AM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2023, 10:27:41 PM
I looked at the Google Maps traffic around 3:30 today.  A-73 sud was colored mauve for a bit over a km around the A-540 merge approaching the bridge.  This is "too little traffic to justify another crossing"?  The Capital District is around the same size and the idea of anything being mauve at 3:30 without a crash is unthinkable here.

The last time I was in Quebec City, that section of A-73 has major long-term construction going on, so it makes sense why it would be mauve-coloured. If I remember correctly, on the approach to the bridge, the lanes are narrowed, shoulders removed, and on-ramps have no acceleration space at all.

edit: ah yes I found the link to the project: https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/projets-infrastructures/reseau-routier/projets-routiers/capitale-nationale/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts/Pages/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts.aspx
OK, that explains a lot of that, although I don't usually expect construction-related delays to be THAT bad.  I'll have to check it in the morning to see what the other side is like.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

LilianaUwU

#689
A-50 will be renamed Autoroute Guy-Lafleur:

https://www.journaldequebec.com/2023/04/28/une-autoroute-serait-nommee-en-lhonneur-de-guy-lafleur (in French)

Of note is that the Commission de toponymie du Québec won't rename things after people unless they've been dead for a year, meaning no Hal Rogers situation with our self-congratulating politicians over here.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

vdeane

Quote from: vdeane on April 22, 2023, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: andrepoiy on April 22, 2023, 02:16:05 AM
Quote from: vdeane on April 21, 2023, 10:27:41 PM
I looked at the Google Maps traffic around 3:30 today.  A-73 sud was colored mauve for a bit over a km around the A-540 merge approaching the bridge.  This is "too little traffic to justify another crossing"?  The Capital District is around the same size and the idea of anything being mauve at 3:30 without a crash is unthinkable here.

The last time I was in Quebec City, that section of A-73 has major long-term construction going on, so it makes sense why it would be mauve-coloured. If I remember correctly, on the approach to the bridge, the lanes are narrowed, shoulders removed, and on-ramps have no acceleration space at all.

edit: ah yes I found the link to the project: https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/projets-infrastructures/reseau-routier/projets-routiers/capitale-nationale/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts/Pages/aut73-refection-tete-des-ponts.aspx
OK, that explains a lot of that, although I don't usually expect construction-related delays to be THAT bad.  I'll have to check it in the morning to see what the other side is like.
Finally remembered to check this morning.  Looks like a long line of mauve on A-73 and some red on the ramps from A-20 and A-20 approaching those ramps (not including the red on both directions of A-20 through Lévis).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

LilianaUwU

Seems like the MTQ wants to collaborate with Montréal to create new standards for work zones involving sidewalks (article in French):

https://www.transports.gouv.qc.ca/fr/salle-de-presse/nouvelles/Pages/quebec-revoit-normes-signalisation-chantiers.aspx

The highlights:

* Smaller "cones" (more like drums) for smaller urban areas;
* Smaller sidewalk closed signs;
* A third reflective plank on sidewalk barriers to improve detection by blind people (?);
* The possibility of replacing drums with some sort of metallic barrier;
* The use of pictograms to replace the TROTTOIR BARRÉ sign;
* Adjustments to make road work zones more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones (???).

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

elsmere241

Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 10, 2023, 06:44:44 AM

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???

Maybe they're using L'Ile de Montreal as a starting point or something.

Richard3

Quote from: elsmere241 on May 10, 2023, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 10, 2023, 06:44:44 AM

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???

Maybe they're using L'Ile de Montreal as a starting point or something.

I don't trust that government anymore.
- How many people are working in here?
- About 20%.

- What Quebec highways and Montreal Canadiens have in common?
- Rebuilding.

States/provinces/territories I didn't went in: AB, AK, AL, BC, HI, KS, LA, MB, MN, MS, MT, ND, NL, NT, NU, RI, SD, SK, WA, WI, YT.  Well, I still have some job to do!

LilianaUwU

Quote from: Richard3 on May 14, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: elsmere241 on May 10, 2023, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 10, 2023, 06:44:44 AM

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???

Maybe they're using L'Ile de Montreal as a starting point or something.

I don't trust that government anymore.
You know we're in a NYC situation, where the government of Québec sees Montréal as the only inhabited place while neglecting the rest of the province (besides maybe Québec City).
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

webfil

#695
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2023, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Richard3 on May 14, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: elsmere241 on May 10, 2023, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 10, 2023, 06:44:44 AM

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???

Maybe they're using L'Ile de Montreal as a starting point or something.

I don't trust that government anymore.
You know we're in a NYC situation, where the government of Québec sees Montréal as the only inhabited place while neglecting the rest of the province (besides maybe Québec City).

Looking at the 2023-2024 expenditures, the proportion of investments to proportion of population ratio is a whopping 5.24:1 for Côte-Nord, 2.50:1 for Gaspésie―ÃŽles-de-la-Madeleine and 1.62:1 in Bas-Saint-Laurent. Montréal, Montérégie, Laval and Capitale-Nationale regions all have a ratio smaller than 1:1 (respectively 0.67:1, 0.12:1, 0.59:1, 0.63:1). With a 1:1 ratio, the region with the highest expenditures outside Montreal is Chaudière-Appalaches, the crying baby that didn't have its unnecessary toy, who will receive more or less half a billion in the next year  ― that's 5% of the whole infrastructure budget at the MTQ. Combine Capitale-Nationale, Lanaudière, Laurentides, Laval, Montréal, Montérégie and Outaouais (rounds up pretty much to Montreal, Québec and Gatineau-Ottawa metro areas); they get 31% of the investment, while housing 76% of the population.

But the population figures skew the numbers because in outlying regions, population is concentrated in small areas that are sparsely distributed ― so let's look a the FORT (the fund dedicated to the maintenance of the road network), funded with gas and license plate taxes : the expenditures are twice the income. That means that people not owing a car and/or are not using one pay as much for roads as the people who use it ― typical free-rider problem, driving the maintenance level of the network into a wall. With vehicle registration fees being twice as high in the metro areas compared to Côte-Nord and GÃŽM, and with fuel taxes being 50 % higher, the metro area population pays double for each km of road they get, let alone they get less road investments per capita. On top of that, the motor vehicle to population ratio is 1.16 on Côte-Nord and 1.23 in GÃŽM while under 1 in Québec, Montréal and Gatineau metro regions (even under 0,7 in Laval, Montréal and Montérégie). MOREOVER, the GDP per capita is really higher in Montreal (100k$) than in GÃŽM (38 k$), and somewhat higher than Côte-Nord (87 k$). Soooo, people in the metro areas pay more income taxes (they produce more goods), pay more gas taxes for each litre they consume, have less cars (i.e. use less roads) and get WAY less investments in transportation infrastructure in their region than people in outlying regions ― and yet, the former pays for the latter. That seems like a damn sweet deal to me.

Stop your conspiracy theories and get your shit straight. This government is dedicated to roads outside Montreal and Quebec.

EDITED : adjusted figures

LilianaUwU

Quote from: webfil on May 18, 2023, 10:06:12 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 16, 2023, 12:46:22 PM
Quote from: Richard3 on May 14, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: elsmere241 on May 10, 2023, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: LilianaUwU on May 10, 2023, 06:44:44 AM

Now, here's my honest opinion on this: Montréal isn't the only city in the province, so they shouldn't decide for the rest of the province. However, most changes seem okay... except the idea of making construction zones "more appealing to the eyes in tourist-heavy zones". Isn't the entire point of construction signage the idea that it's VISIBLE???

Maybe they're using L'Ile de Montreal as a starting point or something.

I don't trust that government anymore.
You know we're in a NYC situation, where the government of Québec sees Montréal as the only inhabited place while neglecting the rest of the province (besides maybe Québec City).

Looking at the 2023-2024 expenditures, the proportion of investments to proportion of population ratio is a whopping 5.24:1 for Côte-Nord, 2.50:1 for Gaspésie―ÃŽles-de-la-Madeleine and 1.62:1 in Bas-Saint-Laurent. Montréal, Montérégie, Laval and Capitale-Nationale regions all have a ratio smaller than 1:1 (respectively 0.67:1, 0.12:1, 0.59:1, 0.63:1). With a 1:1 ratio, the region with the highest expenditures outside Montreal is Chaudière-Appalaches, the crying baby that didn't have its unnecessary toy, who will receive more or less half a billion in the next year  ― that's 5% of the whole infrastructure budget at the MTQ. Combine Capitale-Nationale, Lanaudière, Laurentides, Laval, Montréal, Montérégie and Outaouais (rounds up pretty much to Montreal, Québec and Gatineau-Ottawa metro areas); they get 31% of the investment, while housing 76% of the population.

But the population figures skew the numbers because in outlying regions, population is concentrated in small areas that are sparsely distributed ― so let's look a the FORT (the fund dedicated to the maintenance of the road network), funded with gas and license plate taxes : the expenditures are twice the income. That means that people not owing a car and/or are not using one pay as much for roads as the people who use it ― typical free-rider problem, driving the maintenance level of the network into a wall. With vehicle registration fees being twice as high in the metro areas compared to Côte-Nord and GÃŽM, and with fuel taxes being 50 % higher, the metro area population pays double for each km of road they get, let alone they get less road investments per capita. On top of that, the motor vehicle to population ratio is 1.16 on Côte-Nord and 1.23 in GÃŽM while under 1 in Québec, Montréal and Gatineau metro regions (even under 0,7 in Laval, Montréal and Montérégie). MOREOVER, the GDP per capita is really higher in Montreal (100k$) than in GÃŽM (38 k$), and somewhat higher than Côte-Nord (87 k$). Soooo, people in the metro areas pay more income taxes (they produce more goods), pay more gas taxes for each litre they consume, have less cars (i.e. use less roads) and get WAY less investments in transportation infrastructure in their region than people in outlying regions ― and yet, the former pays for the latter. That seems like a damn sweet deal to me.

Stop your conspiracy theories and get your shit straight. This government is dedicated to roads outside Montreal and Quebec.

EDITED : adjusted figures
Well, I'll be damned. You brought actual facts. I gotta admit, I was talking out of my ass there, and probably shouldn't have been taken seriously.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

froggie

Wish they were that dedicated to getting A-35 finished...

AsphaltPlanet

AsphaltPlanet.ca  Youtube -- Opinions expressed reflect the viewpoints of others.

andrepoiy

TIL that the Turcot is above a railway. For some reason never noticed it despite having driven through it numerous times.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.