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What state posts the worst control cities? The best?

Started by Roadgeekteen, April 13, 2021, 10:56:56 AM

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Roadgeekteen

Quote from: hobsini2 on March 31, 2023, 06:31:05 PM
Quote from: Roadgeekteen on March 31, 2023, 04:45:23 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 31, 2023, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: rlb2024 on March 31, 2023, 03:18:08 PM
Quote from: OCGuy81 on March 30, 2023, 03:40:29 PM
Oregon doesn't really like to use any control cities outside her borders until it's absolutely necessary.

I-5 SB, they won't even mention Yreka, Redding, or Sacramento until you're in the last city in Oregon, Ashland.

I-84, at the junction with I-82.  There's no mention of using I-82 for any cities in Washington.  Just Hermiston and Umatilla.  At the same junction, the control cities for I-84 are Pendleton and Ontario.  No mention of Boise.

I think Sacramento or even Redding would be a good control city once you get to the Medford area.

And on I-82, maybe mention the Tri-Cities in Washington? Or Yakima?
Looks like they now mention Kennewick at the I-84/I-82 interchange . . .

https://www.google.com/maps/@45.7940138,-119.3845995,3a,75y,275.69h,102.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sh8ifObRFIpGzYOmL95pCZQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192


Oh wow, that's an update.  Last time I drove that, I remember it being Hermiston and Umatilla, even though Kennewick is much larger than both.
I would get rid of Hermiston and replace it with Seattle. I believe that the Hermiston/ Umatilla is going eastbound on I-84.
There is an aux sign before the interchange that says "Yakima, Spokane NEXT RIGHT". No mention of Seattle though.
Why is Spokane listed and not Seattle? If this is westbound, Seattle makes way more sense.
God-emperor of Alanland, king of all the goats and goat-like creatures

Current Interstate map I am making:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1PEDVyNb1skhnkPkgXi8JMaaudM2zI-Y&ll=29.05778059819179%2C-82.48856825&z=5


Flint1979

Since this is regarding the Pacific Northwest. Why is it that if I was on I-82 westbound coming up to I-90 that there are only signs for eastbound I-90 with the control cities of Vantage and Spokane, why is it that there are no signs at all for westbound I-90? Pretty sure the control city is supposed to be Ellensburg there.

roadman65

Why doesn't all the interchanges in Minneapolis and St. Paul have control cities?  What's even more odd is I-35E at I-94 where WB I-94 gets Minneapolis but I-94 EB or both directions of I-35E get nothing?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

hobsini2

Quote from: Flint1979 on April 01, 2023, 07:06:27 AM
Since this is regarding the Pacific Northwest. Why is it that if I was on I-82 westbound coming up to I-90 that there are only signs for eastbound I-90 with the control cities of Vantage and Spokane, why is it that there are no signs at all for westbound I-90? Pretty sure the control city is supposed to be Ellensburg there.
It says Seattle.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9583231,-120.5067291,3a,75y,26.27h,95.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-mKmvu5j_EUSGeerYlmpWw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
I knew it. I'm surrounded by assholes. Keep firing, assholes! - Dark Helmet (Spaceballs)

Flint1979

Quote from: hobsini2 on April 01, 2023, 10:11:13 AM
Quote from: Flint1979 on April 01, 2023, 07:06:27 AM
Since this is regarding the Pacific Northwest. Why is it that if I was on I-82 westbound coming up to I-90 that there are only signs for eastbound I-90 with the control cities of Vantage and Spokane, why is it that there are no signs at all for westbound I-90? Pretty sure the control city is supposed to be Ellensburg there.
It says Seattle.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9583231,-120.5067291,3a,75y,26.27h,95.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-mKmvu5j_EUSGeerYlmpWw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en
I didn't see that sign. I like how they got either lane lol.

MattHanson939

Quote from: JayhawkCO on March 30, 2023, 04:37:24 PM

Bolding mine. Why? Belen is currently signed (and bad), but adding another town barely over 10K people that's only 10 miles away from ABQ? Seems unnecessary. If you include that for the general Albuquerque area, why wouldn't you sign Frederick (a town no one has heard of outside of Colorado) near Denver?

I included Los Lunas since it's bigger than Belen, even though Belen was signed at the Big-I before the interchange was rebuilt in 2002.  And I have know idea why it was the control city from Albuquerque in the first place.

JayhawkCO

I'd probably just sign Las Cruces myself, but have less of an issue with Socorro than either Las Lunas or Belen.

MattHanson939

#507
Quote from: hobsini2 on March 30, 2023, 08:58:15 AM

Santa Fe would qualify as a primary under the state capitol rule.


However, because Albuquerque is much bigger, has a major interstate junction, and is only about 50 minutes to an hour drive from Santa Fe, I would dual-sign Santa Fe / Albuquerque at most interchanges from the Colorado state line.  And I-25 north from Albuquerque ought to be dual-signed as Santa Fe / Denver.  I mentioned Denver because it would make things more consistent if NMDOT decided to sign interstate control cities the way Arizona does it — that is if I-40 west is signed as Flagstaff, I-40 east is Amarillo, and I-25 south is El Paso (or dual-signed Las Cruces / El Paso).

MattHanson939


Quote from: hobsini2 on March 30, 2023, 08:58:15 AM

Santa Fe would qualify as a primary under the state capitol rule.


Also, I've seen that on I-55 in Illinois, Chicago is the primary control city going from East St. Louis (and from where it spits from I-70); but Springfield and Bloomington are signed at smaller interchanges.  And on I-55 south from Chicago, St. Louis is the primary control city.  If a state capital isn't the largest city in a given state and a much larger city is on the same route, then they can qualify as secondary controls in those situations.

MattHanson939

Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 02, 2023, 01:27:35 PM
I'd probably just sign Las Cruces myself, but have less of an issue with Socorro than either Las Lunas or Belen.

Socorro I would only have as a local control point (i.e. it's only mentioned on distance signs).  Las Cruces can be a secondary control, with El Paso as the primary control on I-25 south from Albuquerque.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: MattHanson939 on April 04, 2023, 04:04:50 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 02, 2023, 01:27:35 PM
I'd probably just sign Las Cruces myself, but have less of an issue with Socorro than either Las Lunas or Belen.

Socorro I would only have as a local control point (i.e. it's only mentioned on distance signs).  Las Cruces can be a secondary control, with El Paso as the primary control on I-25 south from Albuquerque.

At least Socorro is a junction point. Not that that's my main impulse when choosing a control city (hence why in another thread I argue against Albert Lea).

MattHanson939

#511
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 04:11:26 PM

At least Socorro is a junction point. Not that that's my main impulse when choosing a control city (hence why in another thread I argue against Albert Lea).

In Socorro, you do have a junction with US 60 going west out of it to Magdalena and then into Arizona.  But most interstate traffic going south from Albuquerque is headed to Las Cruces or El Paso. 

Albert Lea is where the I-35 / I-90 junction is at, but the primary control city on 35N from Des Moines is Minneapolis since it's much bigger and more well-known (especially to out-of-state drivers).

JayhawkCO

#512
Quote from: MattHanson939 on April 13, 2023, 09:53:39 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 04:11:26 PM

At least Socorro is a junction point. Not that that's my main impulse when choosing a control city (hence why in another thread I argue against Albert Lea).

In Socorro, you do have a junction with US 60 going west out of it to Magdalena and then into Arizona.  But most interstate traffic going south from Albuquerque is headed to Las Cruces or El Paso. 

Albert Lea is where the I-35 / I-90 junction is at, but the primary control city on 35N from Des Moines is Minneapolis since it's much bigger and more well-known (especially to out-of-state drivers).

And right nearby you have US380 heading east to Ruidoso and Roswell. (I know it's in San Antonio, not Socorro, but same general region.)

rlb2024

At the 10-12-59 interchange in Slidell, LA the control city for eastbound I-10 is Bay St. Louis.  My understanding is that it's a throwback to before I-10 was complete across south Mississippi, but that needs to be updated to either Gulfport or Biloxi.

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.3076924,-89.7466938,3a,75y,110.81h,83.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJVcIZJVzclOkvwMFR1xahw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

roadman65

I'm surprised this thread is still active as it's passion is in the Limon April Fools thread lately.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

MattHanson939

#515
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 13, 2023, 12:26:28 PM
Quote from: MattHanson939 on April 13, 2023, 09:53:39 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on April 04, 2023, 04:11:26 PM

At least Socorro is a junction point. Not that that's my main impulse when choosing a control city (hence why in another thread I argue against Albert Lea).

In Socorro, you do have a junction with US 60 going west out of it to Magdalena and then into Arizona.  But most interstate traffic going south from Albuquerque is headed to Las Cruces or El Paso. 

Albert Lea is where the I-35 / I-90 junction is at, but the primary control city on 35N from Des Moines is Minneapolis since it's much bigger and more well-known (especially to out-of-state drivers).

And right nearby you have US380 heading east to Ruidoso and Roswell. (I know it's in San Antonio, not Socorro, but same general region.)

You also take US 380 if you're headed to Alamogordo from Albuquerque, but then you turn south onto US 54 in Carrizozo.

That being said, I think from I-25, the dual control cities on US 380 ought be Carrizozo / Roswell instead of San Antonio / Carrizozo.  And within Carrizozo, the EB control on 380 should be Roswell, 54 south should be Alamogordo, and 54 north should be Santa Rosa.  Vaughn is the junction point of three US highways (54, 60, 285); but it is way way too small to be a primary control point.  This is why I think Santa Rosa is the most logical choice for US 54 north because it's much bigger than Vaughn; and there's also the junction with I-40, with which 54 runs concurrently until Tucumcari where it splits from the interstate.  On these non-freeway US routes, I'd use the smaller towns where there are junctions with other US routes as secondary control points.

Also, I'd modify the distance sign on SB I-25 south of Socorro to read Jct. US 380, Las Cruces, El Paso.

Additionally, I would have control cities changed on certain stretches of US 285.  From Roswell, I'd change the northbound control city from Vaughn to Santa Fe.  From where 285 splits from I-25 going south, I'd dual sign Clines Corners / Roswell; then from the junction with I-40, I would change the southbound control city on US 285 to Roswell.  Besides, when 84 and 285 run concurrently with one another from Santa Fe to about a few miles north of Española, the route doesn't sign Pojoaque as a primary control city in either direction (despite there being an important junction w/ NM 502 going west to Los Alamos).

Gnutella

For what it's worth, PennDOT is now using State College as a control city in Harrisburg.

Speaking of State College as a control city, here's how I'd redo the control cities on I-80...


Eastbound

Ohio state line to I-99: State College

I-99 concurrency: Williamsport/New York City

I-99 to I-81: Hazleton/New York City

I-81 to New Jersey state line: New York City


Westbound

New Jersey state line to I-380: Scranton/Wilkes-Barre

I-380 to PA 115: Wilkes-Barre/Hazleton

PA 115 to I-81: Hazleton

I-81 through I-99 concurrency: State College

I-99 to Ohio state line: Youngstown


Signs that read, | TO I-81 North | Wilkes-Barre | Scranton | FOLLOW I-80 East | should be posted on I-99 northbound half a mile before the I-80 concurrency, I-80 eastbound/I-99 northbound half a mile before the end of the concurrency, and I-180 southbound and PA 147 northbound half a mile before their junction with I-80.

Signs that read, | TO I-180 North | Williamsport | FOLLOW I-80 West | should be posted on I-80 westbound and I-81 southbound half a mile before their junction with each other.

As for Sharon, Clarion, DuBois, Bellefonte and East Stroudsburg, use them as consistent destinations on three-row mileage signs as compensation for not being used as control cities anymore. Also give New York City stand-alone mileage signs on I-80 in western Pennsylvania one mile east of the I-376, I-79, U.S. 322 and U.S. 219 junctions as reassurance until it becomes a control city at the beginning of the I-99 concurrency.

BOOM! Problem solved. :colorful:

roadman65

Also Newburgh needs to replace Milford on I-84 East in PA. The two Port Jervis ramp signs on both US 6 interchanges in Pike County for I-84 East can also be Newburgh. The one in Matomoras shouldn’t be Port Jervis as US 6/209 are heading there already. The ramp to I-84 EB is not a good guide with Port Jervis there as control city. In fact the US 6/209 interchange should allso be signed for Port Jervis in addition to Matamoras on the interstate as the city is located less than 1.5 miles away after passing through Matomoras.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

HighwayStar

Quote from: roadman65 on April 14, 2023, 05:23:17 PM
I'm surprised this thread is still active as it's passion is in the Limon April Fools thread lately.

The passion of control cities knows no limits  :-D
There are those who travel, and those who travel well

MattHanson939

#519
Quote

Santa Fe would qualify as a primary under the state capitol rule.


I've seen another instance of a state capital being used as a secondary control rather than a primary; and that is Olympia, Washington.  Seattle is the primary control city on I-5 north from Portland.  And similarly on I-5 south from Seattle, Portland is the primary control city with Olympia being a secondary.  It's often the case when signing two control cities is that the secondary is on top and the primary is on the bottom (SB 5 in Seattle is dual-signed Olympia / Portland).

roadman65

Springfield, IL is that way on interstate to interstate signing for I-55 using either Chicago or St. Louis as control cities where the IL capital is between them being secondary only on local and state highway ramps.

IL uses primary only on interstates to interstates but secondary cities on other road freeway entrances.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

MattHanson939

Quote from: roadman65 on April 21, 2023, 06:51:29 PM
Springfield, IL is that way on interstate to interstate signing for I-55 using either Chicago or St. Louis as control cities where the IL capital is between them being secondary only on local and state highway ramps.

IL uses primary only on interstates to interstates but secondary cities on other road freeway entrances.

That's another way to sign secondary control points, not just the dual signing of secondary / primary on the interstate mainline. 



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