Is it frugality... or extreme cheapskate?

Started by ZLoth, September 03, 2022, 12:18:17 PM

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kphoger

Quote from: ZLoth on December 16, 2022, 04:28:23 AM
There is now a New Model M by UniComp that costs a little over $100 and isn't through Amazon. Unfortunately, due to supply chain issues with the microcontroller, they aren't promising any order fulfillments until late January, 2023 minimum.

Neither frugality nor extreme cheapskate.   :biggrin:
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.


kalvado

Quote from: kphoger on December 16, 2022, 09:56:35 AM
Quote from: ZLoth on December 16, 2022, 04:28:23 AM
There is now a New Model M by UniComp that costs a little over $100 and isn't through Amazon. Unfortunately, due to supply chain issues with the microcontroller, they aren't promising any order fulfillments until late January, 2023 minimum.

Neither frugality nor extreme cheapskate.   :biggrin:
More like antique styled for those who cannot afford true antique

I really wonder - if those old keyboards are so great, why no manufacturer jumps on a chance to revive old model for some modest premium? Are they really that great? It's hard to judge for me, I don't have to  type 50k  symbols a  day to earn my paycheck...

kphoger

Quote from: kalvado on December 16, 2022, 11:34:25 AM
if those old keyboards are so great, why no manufacturer jumps on a chance to revive old model for some modest premium?

There are plenty of new mechanical keyboards being sold for a modest premium.

https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-mechanical-keyboards
https://www.pcgamer.com/best-mechanical-keyboard/
https://www.wired.com/gallery/best-keyboards/
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

ZLoth

Quote from: kalvado on December 16, 2022, 11:34:25 AMI really wonder - if those old keyboards are so great, why no manufacturer jumps on a chance to revive old model for some modest premium? Are they really that great? It's hard to judge for me, I don't have to type 50k symbols a day to earn my paycheck...

You'll be surprised at some of the keyboards and the premium pricing that are attached to them. But then again, wrist sprain injury and carpal tunnel are serious problems. I have a Logitech K400 Plus Wireless Touch TV Keyboard which I will be hooking up to a old computer which is being repurposed to a home theater computer. For short bits of typing and mouse navigation, it's fine. But use it for more than a few minutes, and it becomes a pain. The key travel is too short, and the keyboard is just too small. I will also be installing a VNC server on that computer so that I can access it remotely.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

kalvado

Quote from: ZLoth on December 16, 2022, 12:46:31 PM
Quote from: kalvado on December 16, 2022, 11:34:25 AMI really wonder - if those old keyboards are so great, why no manufacturer jumps on a chance to revive old model for some modest premium? Are they really that great? It's hard to judge for me, I don't have to type 50k symbols a day to earn my paycheck...

You'll be surprised at some of the keyboards and the premium pricing that are attached to them. But then again, wrist sprain injury and carpal tunnel are serious problems. I have a Logitech K400 Plus Wireless Touch TV Keyboard which I will be hooking up to a old computer which is being repurposed to a home theater computer. For short bits of typing and mouse navigation, it's fine. But use it for more than a few minutes, and it becomes a pain. The key travel is too short, and the keyboard is just too small. I will also be installing a VNC server on that computer so that I can access it remotely.
well, keyboard used once in a while and keyboard used 8 hours a day are totally different subjects. I have no doubt that for those using keyboard as a main tool for work keyboard ergonomics is vital. But my impression is that keyboard itself is a small part of the deal at best. Desk position, wrist position, seat height, wrist support are definitely important even for me with my pretty modest amount of typing.  Maybe it's worth putting in a different thread - and I am sure there is approximately zillion  of such threads on Reddit and elsewhere.
But for me key travel and sound are not really something critical. I can deal with simple cheap keyboard.
Although... I just checked keyboard I am using to type this - and it is $80 on amazon...  :-/

J N Winkler

Quote from: kalvado on December 16, 2022, 01:46:45 PMWell, keyboard used once in a while and keyboard used 8 hours a day are totally different subjects. I have no doubt that for those using keyboard as a main tool for work keyboard ergonomics is vital. But my impression is that keyboard itself is a small part of the deal at best. Desk position, wrist position, seat height, wrist support are definitely important even for me with my pretty modest amount of typing.  Maybe it's worth putting in a different thread - and I am sure there is approximately zillion  of such threads on Reddit and elsewhere.

I work with typed words and have had to navigate these ergonomic considerations.  Yes, the variables picked out in bold are important, as are screen height, solid angle subtended by each typed character, and the stability of the keyboard.

I have never had problems with carpal tunnel syndrome, but I have discovered that having the top of the screen no lower than eye height and having typed letters at an easy-to-read size are critical to avoiding posture problems and upper-back pain.  It also helps to position the keyboard in such a way that the arms rest naturally at the sides.  For a person sitting in a typical office chair, this means placing it on the thighs just behind the knees with chair height adjusted so that the tops of the thighs are level.  Generally speaking, only 102-key boards with regular-sized keys have the required width and heft to stay in this position for minutes at a stretch.  Ideally, the keyboard should also be wireless to avoid having a cable applying traction.

While I'm willing to accept significant compromises when travelling, I have found I really need a keyboard with normal-sized keys and some heft for fluent and error-free typing.  I've tried folding Bluetooth keyboards and discovered they're a pain to use--they're forever squirming and the keys are too small for comfortable touch-typing.  When I was going on the road with an older laptop, I brought along a wired 102-key board.  These days I travel with Android devices and use a Logitech K480 Bluetooth keyboard, which is a bit narrower than I like (I have to keep my knees together), but has normal-sized keys and no real annoyances other than a fraction-of-a-second delay for Shift that leads to capitalization errors at my usual typing pace.

Quote from: kalvado on December 16, 2022, 01:46:45 PMBut for me key travel and sound are not really something critical. I can deal with simple cheap keyboard.

I don't know that I'd describe myself as a key feel purist, and as a deaf person, I basically don't care about key noise on my own account.  However, I've discovered that it helps to have good key feedback when typing heavily.  When I was visiting archives regularly, I also had to come up with strategies for dealing with other users who objected to the noise of my typing.  At one such place I eventually started using a board with a springier feel and learned how to work the seat assignment system to position myself at the less-used end of the reading room (the system defaulted to assigning seats at lower-numbered tables first).
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

Scott5114

#206
I got my first Model M for free–I did a project in my high school computer class that allowed me to choose the hardware I wanted from the school computer graveyard to install Ubuntu 5.10 on it (this was intended as a demonstration of how different operating systems had different system requirements). I spied a Model M while I was up there, nabbed it as the keyboard for that machine, and used it happily all year. It was already nearly 20 years old then–this would have been 2005 and the keyboard was made in 1987.

At the end of the school year, the computer teacher, who was also the school newspaper advisor, was stressed to the max because her editor was a graduating senior and had basically just bailed out of doing the last paper for the year. I asked her "If I put the paper together, can I keep this keyboard?" She took one look at the ancient keyboard and said "It's yours." The paper came out on time and I typed this post on that same keyboard.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

ZLoth

Quote from: J N Winkler on December 16, 2022, 02:52:06 PMWhile I'm willing to accept significant compromises when travelling, I have found I really need a keyboard with normal-sized keys and some heft for fluent and error-free typing.  I've tried folding Bluetooth keyboards and discovered they're a pain to use--they're forever squirming and the keys are too small for comfortable touch-typing.  When I was going on the road with an older laptop, I brought along a wired 102-key board.

Uhhh.... this!

For work, even though I have a company issued laptop (and a high-end one at that), I have enough seniority to get TWO docking stations since I split my time between the office and working from home. Thus, the full-size keyboard and dual 2K monitors, and I'm rarely utilizing my laptop in laptop mode.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

Otto Yamamoto

Quote from: J N Winkler on September 06, 2022, 01:25:46 PM
Living in Kansas, I have to smile as I see people debate the relative affordabilities of California, Texas, New York, and Connecticut.

My sister lives in Kansas, and lives pretty well on half of what I make in NYC. That's all well and good, except it's Kansas...

ZLoth

FWIW...

I just ordered a new Washer/Dryer and a Television through Costco which is scheduled to be delivered on Friday, March 10th. The total cost was $1,980.95 thanks to a current promotion which knocked off $100 by purchasing two items. However, there were two things that knocked the cost down:

  • Rewards from using the Costco Visa card that is paid off every month. (Remember, all of my purchases with the exception of the mortgage payment is made to the Costco Visa)
  • Shop card thanks to a promotion in 2020 when I replaced the air conditioner just prior to the event. It was partially used last year when purchasing a replacement microwave.
This knocked the actual charge to about $343, and because the Costco purchase was made on a Costco Visa card, the warranty is also extended.

The Washer/Dryer was on the wish list for replacement since I moved in 2019. They hadn't broken down, but had issues, so the replacement was under the "nice-to-have" category, and the accumulated rewards made the replacement possible. As for the television, it's because my mother's television broke down, so I gave her my 50" and am replacing it with a $300 55". It's going into my home office, so I don't need a nice television, just a smart one.
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

NWI_Irish96

Quote from: kphoger on November 11, 2022, 12:26:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 11, 2022, 12:19:11 PM
And also, the kind, caring and über-compassionate people over at the Internal Revenue Service will want to all know about any of your forgiven debts and be wanting to have their concerns regarding them to be fully addressed in the year that any such debts are forgiven.

That was one of the thrusts of the lawsuit that was put forth a few weeks ago:  a handful of states (but none of the ones bringing the suit, IIRC) claim income tax on debt forgiveness payments, whereas Biden's plan explicitly prohibited such.  The states claimed that that part of the plan would result in financial damages to such states.  The counterargument is that the money wasn't actually guaranteed to the states in the first place, therefore the damages were only hypothetical:  after all, if people simply paid off their loans, then the hypothetical wouldn't apply.

The other thrust is that the plan would prompt people who held FFEL loans to rush and consolidate them with the US Department of Education in order to qualify–and, as those loans were privately held by quasi-state firms with lots of asterisks, some states could stand to lose out by the loan holders all jumping ship en masse.  (This perfectly describes our own personal situation.  My wife had an FFEL loan, and we rushed to consolidated it with the Dept of Ed.)

Update: The Supreme Court agreed with Missouri and struck down the student loan forgiveness program.
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Illinois: counties 100%, highways 61%
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Wisconsin: counties 86%, highways 23%

ZLoth

#211
Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 30, 2023, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 11, 2022, 12:26:36 PM
Quote from: mgk920 on November 11, 2022, 12:19:11 PM
And also, the kind, caring and über-compassionate people over at the Internal Revenue Service will want to all know about any of your forgiven debts and be wanting to have their concerns regarding them to be fully addressed in the year that any such debts are forgiven.

That was one of the thrusts of the lawsuit that was put forth a few weeks ago:  a handful of states (but none of the ones bringing the suit, IIRC) claim income tax on debt forgiveness payments, whereas Biden's plan explicitly prohibited such.  The states claimed that that part of the plan would result in financial damages to such states.  The counterargument is that the money wasn't actually guaranteed to the states in the first place, therefore the damages were only hypothetical:  after all, if people simply paid off their loans, then the hypothetical wouldn't apply.

The other thrust is that the plan would prompt people who held FFEL loans to rush and consolidate them with the US Department of Education in order to qualify–and, as those loans were privately held by quasi-state firms with lots of asterisks, some states could stand to lose out by the loan holders all jumping ship en masse.  (This perfectly describes our own personal situation.  My wife had an FFEL loan, and we rushed to consolidated it with the Dept of Ed.)

Update: The Supreme Court agreed with Missouri and struck down the student loan forgiveness program.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/30/politics/supreme-court-student-loan-forgiveness-biden/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/06/30/supreme-court-rejects-student-loan-forgiveness-heres-what-we-know-before-payments-restart-this-fall/?sh=7932306d7ad0
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/06/30/supreme-court-biden-student-loan-forgiveness-plan.html

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-506_nmip.pdf
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/22-535_i3kn.pdf
I'm an Engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is beauty?", because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems and call them "paychecks".

kphoger

Quote from: NWI_Irish96 on June 30, 2023, 10:41:24 AM

Quote from: kphoger on November 11, 2022, 12:26:36 PM

Quote from: mgk920 on November 11, 2022, 12:19:11 PM
And also, the kind, caring and über-compassionate people over at the Internal Revenue Service will want to all know about any of your forgiven debts and be wanting to have their concerns regarding them to be fully addressed in the year that any such debts are forgiven.

That was one of the thrusts of the lawsuit that was put forth a few weeks ago:  a handful of states (but none of the ones bringing the suit, IIRC) claim income tax on debt forgiveness payments, whereas Biden's plan explicitly prohibited such.  The states claimed that that part of the plan would result in financial damages to such states.  The counterargument is that the money wasn't actually guaranteed to the states in the first place, therefore the damages were only hypothetical:  after all, if people simply paid off their loans, then the hypothetical wouldn't apply.

The other thrust is that the plan would prompt people who held FFEL loans to rush and consolidate them with the US Department of Education in order to qualify–and, as those loans were privately held by quasi-state firms with lots of asterisks, some states could stand to lose out by the loan holders all jumping ship en masse.  (This perfectly describes our own personal situation.  My wife had an FFEL loan, and we rushed to consolidated it with the Dept of Ed.)

Update: The Supreme Court agreed with Missouri and struck down the student loan forgiveness program.

Yeah, I didn't have much hope for them to uphold the program.  The legal case against it seemed pretty strong.  The only open door I saw was the notion that, because the financial damages to the states was only hypothetical, then they had no standing;  however, precedent contradicted that argument, so I didn't expect the high court to rule that way.  Honestly, I'm kind of amazed there was as much hesitation as there was.  In short:  even though I would have personally benefited greatly from the program, I agree with the court that it was unconstitutional and am not surprised they ruled as such.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

And this is one of the many reasons why I dislike the state of Missouri.

kphoger

Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 12:07:43 PM
And this is one of the many reasons why I dislike the state of Missouri.

I mean, it's hard to blame them.  The President initiated a program that would cause financial damage to several states without the approval of Congress.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

JayhawkCO

#215
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 12:07:43 PM
And this is one of the many reasons why I dislike the state of Missouri.

I mean, it's hard to blame them.  The President initiated a program that would cause financial damage to several states without the approval of Congress.

I'm a Jayhawker. I'm going to rationally or irrationally dislike the state of Missouri if I want to.


LilianaUwU

#216
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 12:07:43 PM
And this is one of the many reasons why I dislike the state of Missouri.

I mean, it's hard to blame them.  The President initiated a program that would cause financial damage to several states without the approval of Congress.

Missouri signed a bill banning gender-affirming care to adults. To say "fuck Missouri" would be an understatement, especially if we add striking down a promise Joe Biden made about forgiving student loans on top of that. So yes, it's extremely easy to blame them on a lot of things.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

The Nature Boy

This thread reminds me of an old Reddit thread. The thread was essentially "what are somethings about growing up poor that most people wouldn't understand?"  And it read more like a list of people raised by extreme cheapskates than people actually experiencing poverty.

One disgusting example stuck with me. One commenter said that her parents would bath three children in the same bath water separately. I have never lived anywhere where the cost of drawing a bath would make any measurable impact on a water bill. I am sure you get SOME savings but it seems minimal compared to bathing your children in fresh water.

LilianaUwU

Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 04, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
This thread reminds me of an old Reddit thread. The thread was essentially "what are somethings about growing up poor that most people wouldn't understand?"  And it read more like a list of people raised by extreme cheapskates than people actually experiencing poverty.

One disgusting example stuck with me. One commenter said that her parents would bath three children in the same bath water separately. I have never lived anywhere where the cost of drawing a bath would make any measurable impact on a water bill. I am sure you get SOME savings but it seems minimal compared to bathing your children in fresh water.
Heck, there's no water bill to speak of in Canada (or at least there are none where I've lived)... the idea of actually paying for tap water is insane.
"Volcano with no fire... Not volcano... Just mountain."
—Mr. Thwomp

My pronouns are she/her. Also, I'm an admin on the AARoads Wiki.

formulanone

#219
Quote from: LilianaUwU on July 04, 2023, 10:14:47 PM
Quote from: The Nature Boy on July 04, 2023, 05:09:53 PM
This thread reminds me of an old Reddit thread. The thread was essentially “what are somethings about growing up poor that most people wouldn’t understand?” And it read more like a list of people raised by extreme cheapskates than people actually experiencing poverty.

One disgusting example stuck with me. One commenter said that her parents would bath three children in the same bath water separately. I have never lived anywhere where the cost of drawing a bath would make any measurable impact on a water bill. I am sure you get SOME savings but it seems minimal compared to bathing your children in fresh water.
Heck, there's no water bill to speak of in Canada (or at least there are none where I've lived)... the idea of actually paying for tap water is insane.

We didn't do it often, but on a few occasions, we'd bath both our children at the same time. It's less time-consuming to drain the water and refill fill the tub again...roughly 10-15 minutes' time, depending on how long it takes for the water to be hot. Then you have to get them ready for bed, and you wouldn't have to keep an eye on one while the other is being washed. We did this if we were at someone else's home or at a hotel, but it's probably been 9-10 years since doing so.

So figure that there's much more of a time savings with washing three kids (20-30 minutes), and also trying to get them ready for bed independently while coordinating other morning/nightly rituals was not always so easy, depending on circumstances.

Edit: I do some cheapskate things, mostly because I still have a bit of a frugal mentality that I'm making $8/hour, and so does my wife. Although we've never really worried about being destitute, we sometimes live like we only have five dollars left to our name after the bills are paid. We save every darn shoe box, pick up used furniture, and are not ashamed to return things we don't like/need if we've saved the receipt. We'll have water at a restaurant, order small portions, and use my rewards points for purchases. We don't carry a credit card balance. We don't drink much and very rarely gamble money. We don't buy each other excessive gifts, we don't trinket each other with frilly things, we're not afraid to accept hand-me-downs and offer them back. We drive vehicles that are over 10 years old and long-since paid off. You go though your stuff, catalogue it, and then know what you own so you don't buy extras unless you really need it, and can stock up when you see a good deal. These are all minor cheapy things that help us out. Businesses and society want you to feel ashamed for being cheap...don't fall into that trap. But this way, we don't have to think twice when there's an emergency or unexpected expense, or don't have to blush when on vacation.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: kphoger on June 30, 2023, 12:19:11 PM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on June 30, 2023, 12:07:43 PM
And this is one of the many reasons why I dislike the state of Missouri.

I mean, it's hard to blame them.  The President initiated a program that would cause financial damage to several states without the approval of Congress.

I'm a Jayhawker. I'm going to rationally or irrationally dislike the state of Missouri if I want to.



And, for the record, I did some more research on this and it appears that MOHELA (the Missouri company that sued saying they'd lose money due to less accounts to service) would actually have gained money.

Cite: https://www.newsweek.com/canceling-student-loans-boost-servicer-revenues-analysis-1798001

hotdogPi

My student loans are through MOHELA (after two company changes throughout the years). Should I boycott them and switch to something else, or is doing so impossible?
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

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I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

JayhawkCO

Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2023, 09:06:09 AM
My student loans are through MOHELA (after two company changes throughout the years). Should I boycott them and switch to something else, or is doing so impossible?

I think it's kind of like a mortgage - once it's sold to another company, you don't have a say in it.

Big John

Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 09:28:48 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2023, 09:06:09 AM
My student loans are through MOHELA (after two company changes throughout the years). Should I boycott them and switch to something else, or is doing so impossible?

I think it's kind of like a mortgage - once it's sold to another company, you don't have a say in it.
I thought SOFI was based on refinancing student loans. :hmmm:

JayhawkCO

Quote from: Big John on July 05, 2023, 09:48:36 AM
Quote from: JayhawkCO on July 05, 2023, 09:28:48 AM
Quote from: 1 on July 05, 2023, 09:06:09 AM
My student loans are through MOHELA (after two company changes throughout the years). Should I boycott them and switch to something else, or is doing so impossible?

I think it's kind of like a mortgage - once it's sold to another company, you don't have a say in it.
I thought SOFI was based on refinancing student loans. :hmmm:

Refinancing is just taking another loan out in order to pay down an existing loan.



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