Interstate 11 alignment, though Vegas and points north

[heynow415]

That would be extremely unusual for a 2 digit interstate to end in the middle of nowhere without intersecting another interstate. I-99 is the only other example I can think of, and of course that doesn't comply with AASHTO numbering rules.

I-80's western end is at US 101 without another two-digit interstate anywhere nearby...

I-80s end at US 101 very near downtown San Francisco is hardly the middle of nowhere as asked above. It also ends at an interchange with another freeway, albeit a non-Interstate freeway.

And "The 10" (I-10) ends at a state highway, though Santa Monica is hardly in the middle of nowhere either.

[TheStranger]

That would be extremely unusual for a 2 digit interstate to end in the middle of nowhere without intersecting another interstate. I-99 is the only other example I can think of, and of course that doesn't comply with AASHTO numbering rules.

I-80's western end is at US 101 without another two-digit interstate anywhere nearby...

I-80s end at US 101 very near downtown San Francisco is hardly the middle of nowhere as asked above. It also ends at an interchange with another freeway, albeit a non-Interstate freeway.

And "The 10" (I-10) ends at a state highway, though Santa Monica is hardly in the middle of nowhere either.

I-80's end at US 101 is not the original planned west terminus; the original proposal would have involved the highly opposed Western Freeway all the way to Golden Gate Park to end at the original I-280 routing that also got nixed.

I-10 was added to the Santa Monica Freeway routing ca. 1959, correct?  Before the Interstate era, this was planned as Olympic Parkway (relocated sign route 26?).

There's also one other  mainline interstate with a non-interstate terminus in California, and that is I-8 in San Diego's Mission Bay near a tennis complex.  This was not added to the I-8 route until around 1972 or so, subsuming the former State Route 109. 

[Mark68]

I would assume that the feasibility study will determine the feasibility of an Indian Springs bypass to be...infeasible given the funds available.

[sprjus4]

I would assume that the feasibility study will determine the feasibility of an Indian Springs bypass to be...infeasible given the funds available.

That's not the job of a feasibility study, necessarily.

[Scott5114]

As much fun as an I-711 would be, I would imagine any odd interstate spur in Nevada would be I-511, since NDOT uses 5xx numbers for its urban routes. (This probably explains how I-515 and I-580 got their numbers.)

[The Ghostbuster]

I doubt there will be any 3dis of Interstate 11 designated. I don't think any are really needed.

[cl94]

As much fun as an I-711 would be, I would imagine any odd interstate spur in Nevada would be I-511, since NDOT uses 5xx numbers for its urban routes. (This probably explains how I-515 and I-580 got their numbers.)

It could just be coincidence. Both 515 and 580 are out of sequence. 51x routes were Carson City, 58x is Las Vegas. Furthermore, the 5xx/6xx routes are urban secondary. Weirdly, every x15 and x80 below 700 apart from 215, 515, and 580 is unassigned.

Also, since Nevada generally doesn't reuse numbers, 511 is likely out. Former SR 511 was in Carson City, but no x11s are currently in use.

I will also note that there is evidence of 515 and 580 that predates the renumbering. Both received final approval around when the renumbering began. Not to say that the numbers weren't chosen with that in mind (they may have been), but it's possible NDOT was just trying to avoid reusing an x15 from another state or preserve numbers below 499. 215 is a more recent development than both 515 and 580.

[Bobby5280]

I doubt there will be any 3dis of Interstate 11 designated. I don't think any are really needed.

There is a couple or so possibilities in the Vegas metro. They could cheat and sign the short freeway spur of Business US-93 going into Boulder City as an I-x11 spur. Lake Mead Parkway (NV-564) going thru Henderson could be upgraded into a freeway. It would be a tight squeeze and involve some elevated structures, but I think it is do-able. As the Vegas metro continues to grow and sprawl farther outward more super highways will be needed.

The Reno-Carson City region is less clear on the need of additional super highways. They're finally doing some work to 4-lane the US-50 corridor between Carson City and Fallon. If big warehouses and factories keep getting built in the Clark area NV-439 will need to be upgraded into a freeway.

[mrsman]

I doubt there will be any 3dis of Interstate 11 designated. I don't think any are really needed.

There is a couple or so possibilities in the Vegas metro. They could cheat and sign the short freeway spur of Business US-93 going into Boulder City as an I-x11 spur. Lake Mead Parkway (NV-564) going thru Henderson could be upgraded into a freeway. It would be a tight squeeze and involve some elevated structures, but I think it is do-able. As the Vegas metro continues to grow and sprawl farther outward more super highways will be needed.

The Reno-Carson City region is less clear on the need of additional super highways. They're finally doing some work to 4-lane the US-50 corridor between Carson City and Fallon. If big warehouses and factories keep getting built in the Clark area NV-439 will need to be upgraded into a freeway.

NV-613 seems well positioned to be an I-x11. 

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor.  Is there talk of putting US 93 along the surface street and just redirecting through traffic on I-11, especially if the I-11 designation makes it further into Arizona to at least Kingman?

And perhaps if I-11 makes it to Wickenburg, US 93 would be deleted completely south of Las Vegas, and the US 93 business can be an I-11 business or perhaps just an extension of NV-172.

[The Ghostbuster]

The Summerlin Parkway would probably need to connect with CC-215 via a freeway-to-freeway interchange for it to become an Interstate. I would leave the roadway NV 613.

[vdeane]

The Summerlin Parkway would probably need to connect with CC-215 via a freeway-to-freeway interchange for it to become an Interstate. I would leave the roadway NV 613.

I think I remember reading somewhere that there are long-term plans to make that interchange freeway-freeway.

[roadfro]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor.  Is there talk of putting US 93 along the surface street and just redirecting through traffic on I-11, especially if the I-11 designation makes it further into Arizona to at least Kingman?

That's not a universal method of operation. Out west, or at least in Nevada, US routes tend to be moved to the new facility and the old route gets the Business designation. That's what NDOT did with US 395 in Carson City when I-580 was completed (US 395 moved onto the freeway, old alignment on Carson Street became US 395 Business), and that's what they did here too. If there was a desire to have US 93 on the original surface street alignment through Boulder City when the bypass opened, there wouldn't be a Business 93 designation now.

The Summerlin Parkway would probably need to connect with CC-215 via a freeway-to-freeway interchange for it to become an Interstate. I would leave the roadway NV 613.

I think I remember reading somewhere that there are long-term plans to make that interchange freeway-freeway.

Yes there are, although I'm not sure how far out that actually is. Maybe now that NDOT has control of Summerlin Pkwy instead of the city, and that every other interchange of two freeways in the Vegas area has either been reconstructed to a system interchange or is planned for some kind of improvement, this one might actually come to fruition in planning.

[kkt]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor. 

That's not the usual practice in Nevada or California or a lot of other states.  US 40 disappeared when I-80 was built.  When I-580 was built in Nevada, US 395 was moved to the new freeway route and old US 395 became Business US 395.  This makes sense to me:  US routes or Interstate routes should be the fastest or best through routes now, not the slower, older routes.  Route numbers are aids to travelers unfamiliar with the area.  Leave the road history for others.

[cl94]

I doubt there will be any 3dis of Interstate 11 designated. I don't think any are really needed.

There is a couple or so possibilities in the Vegas metro. They could cheat and sign the short freeway spur of Business US-93 going into Boulder City as an I-x11 spur. Lake Mead Parkway (NV-564) going thru Henderson could be upgraded into a freeway. It would be a tight squeeze and involve some elevated structures, but I think it is do-able. As the Vegas metro continues to grow and sprawl farther outward more super highways will be needed.

The Reno-Carson City region is less clear on the need of additional super highways. They're finally doing some work to 4-lane the US-50 corridor between Carson City and Fallon. If big warehouses and factories keep getting built in the Clark area NV-439 will need to be upgraded into a freeway.

You're veering into fantasy territory. There is no reason to put a redundant designation on 93B for part of its length. Lake Mead Blvd has no right of way for a freeway expansion. There have been proposals to send a freeway up the east side of the valley, but Nellis AFB would add complexity.

There are zero plans at this time to upgrade SR 439 to a full freeway, just like there are zero plans to upgrade US 50 to a freeway. The 4-lane expansion of 50 in Lyon County and 50A between Fernley and Fallon is relatively recent and both are doing just fine. At it is, 439 doesn't currently need 4 lanes along much of its length. If (and this is a massive if) I-11 ever gets to I-80, it will likely hit near Fernley. US 395 south of Carson and part of SR 445 are slated for freeway upgrades, with a freeway connection between 395 and 445 as part of the second upgrade.

Re: Summerlin, that's the only freeway-freeway interchange in the region that isn't a full system interchange, unless you want to count the old 93 stub to Boulder City. The Centennial Bowl finally has all movements open.

[US 89]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor. 

That's not the usual practice in Nevada or California or a lot of other states.  US 40 disappeared when I-80 was built.  When I-580 was built in Nevada, US 395 was moved to the new freeway route and old US 395 became Business US 395.  This makes sense to me:  US routes or Interstate routes should be the fastest or best through routes now, not the slower, older routes.  Route numbers are aids to travelers unfamiliar with the area.  Leave the road history for others.

Yeah, that's a very east-centric mindset - a lot of eastern states operated that way, but pretty much the only western state that systematically kept US highways on the old routes was Oregon. There are examples in other states, like US 40 in Denver, US 6 in western Colorado, or US 89 through the Wasatch Front - but they are a rarity overall compared to cases where the US highways got moved outright to the interstates that replaced them.

[cl94]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor. 

That's not the usual practice in Nevada or California or a lot of other states.  US 40 disappeared when I-80 was built.  When I-580 was built in Nevada, US 395 was moved to the new freeway route and old US 395 became Business US 395.  This makes sense to me:  US routes or Interstate routes should be the fastest or best through routes now, not the slower, older routes.  Route numbers are aids to travelers unfamiliar with the area.  Leave the road history for others.

Yeah, that's a very east-centric mindset - a lot of eastern states operated that way, but pretty much the only western state that systematically kept US highways on the old routes was Oregon. There are examples in other states, like US 40 in Denver, US 6 in western Colorado, or US 89 through the Wasatch Front - but they are a rarity overall compared to cases where the US highways got moved outright to the interstates that replaced them.

A lot of it comes down to how lean various states run their systems. States that run lean systems or won't sign a route along a locally-maintained road moved the US highways to the interstates that replaced them in order to dump surface mileage. States that are less picky about this didn't. Western states generally run leaner systems than you see out east. In the east, Michigan and Minnesota generally did the "move to freeway and download the old road" thing. Then you have states like NY and OH which do this in some locations but not others. You also have the fact that, out west, Interstates were often built directly on top of the old road, while out east they used entirely new alignments except in limited circumstances (parts of I-78 PA and I-88 NY, for example).

[mgk920]

Sort of like how the north end of I-39 is at its interchange with WI 29.



Mike

[vdeane]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor. 

That's not the usual practice in Nevada or California or a lot of other states.  US 40 disappeared when I-80 was built.  When I-580 was built in Nevada, US 395 was moved to the new freeway route and old US 395 became Business US 395.  This makes sense to me:  US routes or Interstate routes should be the fastest or best through routes now, not the slower, older routes.  Route numbers are aids to travelers unfamiliar with the area.  Leave the road history for others.

Yeah, that's a very east-centric mindset - a lot of eastern states operated that way, but pretty much the only western state that systematically kept US highways on the old routes was Oregon. There are examples in other states, like US 40 in Denver, US 6 in western Colorado, or US 89 through the Wasatch Front - but they are a rarity overall compared to cases where the US highways got moved outright to the interstates that replaced them.

I would ask what the point of keeping the US route system around as a system even makes sense with the interstates.  If the concept of keeping them on the local route to avoid unnecessary overlaps isn't appealing, then should it even still exist as a system?  It seems like it would function better as a supplement to the interstate system to designate routes of regional/national significance like US 95 across Nevada that nonetheless don't have enough traffic to warrant a full interstate.

Granted, I agree with whoever it was from NY who was advocating for a system that included only the most important routes back in 1926.  IMO a large chunk of the system comprises routes that don't hold national/regional importance and should never have been designated in the first place.  Getting rid of both those and the ones that have been supplanted by interstates leaves not a lot left (incidentally, this line of thought is so fascinating that I think I'll create a thread in Fictional for it).

[silverback1065]

A little curious about the Business US 93 designation through Boulder City.  Usually when an interstate replaces a US route, the US route can be maintained on the old corridor. 

That's not the usual practice in Nevada or California or a lot of other states.  US 40 disappeared when I-80 was built.  When I-580 was built in Nevada, US 395 was moved to the new freeway route and old US 395 became Business US 395.  This makes sense to me:  US routes or Interstate routes should be the fastest or best through routes now, not the slower, older routes.  Route numbers are aids to travelers unfamiliar with the area.  Leave the road history for others.

Yeah, that's a very east-centric mindset - a lot of eastern states operated that way, but pretty much the only western state that systematically kept US highways on the old routes was Oregon. There are examples in other states, like US 40 in Denver, US 6 in western Colorado, or US 89 through the Wasatch Front - but they are a rarity overall compared to cases where the US highways got moved outright to the interstates that replaced them.

I would ask what the point of keeping the US route system around as a system even makes sense with the interstates.  If the concept of keeping them on the local route to avoid unnecessary overlaps isn't appealing, then should it even still exist as a system?  It seems like it would function better as a supplement to the interstate system to designate routes of regional/national significance like US 95 across Nevada that nonetheless don't have enough traffic to warrant a full interstate.

Granted, I agree with whoever it was from NY who was advocating for a system that included only the most important routes back in 1926.  IMO a large chunk of the system comprises routes that don't hold national/regional importance and should never have been designated in the first place.  Getting rid of both those and the ones that have been supplanted by interstates leaves not a lot left (incidentally, this line of thought is so fascinating that I think I'll create a thread in Fictional for it).

US highways still serve a good purpose, particularly out west and in the south. a lot still only serve the corridors the go on.

[kkt]

Yes.  Without even thinking very hard about it and sticking to Washington State, we've got US 101, US 2, US 12, US 97, US 395 - all important routes serving multiple states with no interstate closely parallel to them and yet not enough traffic to justify an interstate.

[cl94]

Yes.  Without even thinking very hard about it and sticking to Washington State, we've got US 101, US 2, US 12, US 97, US 395 - all important routes serving multiple states with no interstate closely parallel to them and yet not enough traffic to justify an interstate.

Most of the remaining western US routes fall under this. You could make an argument that US 6 has no purpose west of Denver at this point (nor did it ever have one west of US 91, as evidenced by how late it was improved), but other than that, the others are all important corridors. Few even warrant freeway upgrades along substantial lengths, let alone an Interstste designation.

Something like US 395 is a route that doesn't look like much to a distant observer, but it may be the most important N-S corridor between I-5 and I-15. I'd argue that it's decidedly more important than its parent south of extreme northern Nevada.

[Taters]

Yes.  Without even thinking very hard about it and sticking to Washington State, we've got US 101, US 2, US 12, US 97, US 395 - all important routes serving multiple states with no interstate closely parallel to them and yet not enough traffic to justify an interstate.

Most of the remaining western US routes fall under this. You could make an argument that US 6 has no purpose west of Denver at this point (nor did it ever have one west of US 91, as evidenced by how late it was improved), but other than that, the others are all important corridors. Few even warrant freeway upgrades along substantial lengths, let alone an Interstste designation.

Something like US 395 is a route that doesn't look like much to a distant observer, but it may be the most important N-S corridor between I-5 and I-15. I'd argue that it's decidedly more important than its parent south of extreme northern Nevada.

I'll argue for US-6 west of Denver to Spanish Fork, Utah. It does serve as a main connection from Denver to Salt Lake (in fact it was one of the routes that was planned for I-70 in Utah, the feds just wanted otherwise).

Some others are 95 (low traffic but connection from Reno to Boise and eventually Spokane via 195/Coeur d'Alene and Canada.), 93, etc. Since there just aren't really that many interstates in the west, it makes US highways more important, but ultimately most retain low traffic counts despite the fast growing population of the Western US since the system was constructed.

[US 89]

Yes.  Without even thinking very hard about it and sticking to Washington State, we've got US 101, US 2, US 12, US 97, US 395 - all important routes serving multiple states with no interstate closely parallel to them and yet not enough traffic to justify an interstate.

Most of the remaining western US routes fall under this. You could make an argument that US 6 has no purpose west of Denver at this point (nor did it ever have one west of US 91, as evidenced by how late it was improved), but other than that, the others are all important corridors. Few even warrant freeway upgrades along substantial lengths, let alone an Interstste designation.

Something like US 395 is a route that doesn't look like much to a distant observer, but it may be the most important N-S corridor between I-5 and I-15. I'd argue that it's decidedly more important than its parent south of extreme northern Nevada.

I'll argue for US-6 west of Denver to Spanish Fork, Utah. It does serve as a main connection from Denver to Salt Lake (in fact it was one of the routes that was planned for I-70 in Utah, the feds just wanted otherwise).

US 6 between Green River and Spanish Fork is a big deal and absolutely belongs on the US system in some capacity - but not so much for the Denver-Salt Lake connection, which is usually faster via I-25/US 287/I-80 depending on exactly where in each metro you start and finish.

The real value in that road is for the NW-SE connection, which is significant on an international scale. When you combine that bit of 6 with US 191, 491, and 550 further to the southeast, the resulting route is the fastest way from the Pacific Northwest to most of the Texas Gulf ports or most places in Mexico.

[pderocco]

The only piece of that section of US-6 that isn't multiplexed with or adjacent to another US or I route is from US-191 to US-89, which isn't very long.

However, it still makes sense across Nevada, as it has a higher AADT than US-50, and it connects to US-395 at the largest city in California east of the mountains.

Besides, we should show it some respect. It used to be the longest numbered route in America, by far.

[cl94]

However, it still makes sense across Nevada, as it has a higher AADT than US-50, and it connects to US-395 at the largest city in California east of the mountains.

Nope. Lowest traffic count along US 6 is less than half of US 50's lowest per the latest internal NDOT data (250 vs 570). US 50's lowest is along the 6/50 concurrency, 6's lowest is east of NV 375. Highest traffic count along 6 is in downtown Tonopah, which is about 1/7 the highest along 50. Tonopah is the only place AADT along US 6 in Nevada is higher than 4,000