NY 17/"I-86"

[sparker]

We don't need a toll road. Leave 17 alone.

Formatting aside, the issue here is that 86, end to end, isn't really better than 84 to 81. Both are free. If you toll one, the other will be the primary route and you'll lose most of the traffic you were trying to extort.

Absolutely correct.  If one is going from anywhere in southern New England (e.g. Hartford on south) or the lower Hudson River Valley, and are going to where New Yorkers consider the wild, wild West -- e.g., anything west of Pittsburgh -- the more efficient route is 84 to 81 to 80 -- period.  The idea behind I-86 was simply to (a) attempt to enhance the flagging commercial fortune of the Southern Tier and (b) divert as much through E-W traffic as possible out of PA and into upstate NY and rake off whatever revenue could be raised that way.  Of course, as I've iterated previously, the "stem" of the whole I-86 concept was the segment west of I-81/Binghamton; the NY 17 Catskill section east of there was simply to provide a continuous Interstate path from both I-84 coming in from CT and the greater NYC region and feeding into Binghamton.  New Englanders from MA and north of there could simply feed into the I-86 "stem" from I-88 via Albany -- and allowing a few miles of saving via 88/86 vs. I-90 as well as the lack of tolls.  Since it's all but certain that the I-86 upgrades west of Binghamton will precede by a substantial period of time those east of I-81, the alternative of using the western I-86 is validated from both greater NYC via I-80/380/81 and upper New England via I-88.  The sole "missing link", as far as the composite Interstate network is concerned, is that portion of I-86/NY 17 from I-84 west to I-81; it's not likely that WB I-84 travelers will schlep all the way to Scranton only to shunt north along I-81 to Binghamton.  But if NY 17 is usable for that purpose (and the driver isn't concerned about the designation status) then that would work as well.  I remember well before the I-86 designation effort in 1998-99 there was a concerted effort to market NY 17 as "New York's own Autobahn" -- a scenic alternative to both the Turnpike and I-80 across PA (hey, it got me to drive its length back in '89) -- in other words, a PR effort to do much what the later Interstate designation was supposed to do.  But all along, the salient points of this corridor have been scenery/tourism and long-range shunpiking.  Any attempt to sell the whole original NY 17 corridor as an efficient regional alternative to I-80 west of NYC and I-84 out of southern New England is just plain silly -- it's just NY trying to rake off some road-related business; no more, no less.

[sprjus4]

^

Doesn't help that a majority of I-80 is 70 mph across Pennsylvania, whereas I-86 is only 55 / 65 mph. Not to mention I-80 is more direct.

Widen and straighten I-86 to be an 80 mph interstate through Upstate NY and maybe we'll talk.

[sparker]

^

Doesn't help that a majority of I-80 is 70 mph across Pennsylvania, whereas I-86 is only 55 / 65 mph. Not to mention I-80 is more direct.

Widen and straighten I-86 to be an 80 mph interstate through Upstate NY and maybe we'll talk.

Not that NYDOT has any intention to raise speed limits to Western levels, but most of I-86 between I-390 and Olean could readily be signed at 70-75mph and would be just about anywhere else.  Still, if I didn't mind the boredom of I-80 across PA and needed to drive from, say, Hartford to Ohio as quickly as possible, it'd be a 84/81/80 trip all the way.  Yeah, the terrain and towns along I-86 are, IMO, more varied and decidedly more interesting, but the drive is what I'd term moderately fast; no elapsed-time records are going to be set there.  At least it's free! 

[empirestate]

If NYSDOT doesn't want to work on the upgrade, why doesn't NYSTA turn I-86 from Binghamton to Woodbury into a toll road to fund construction?

Simple answer: it's just not that important. NYSTA has no jurisdiction or mandate to do anything whatsoever with I-86, and some amount of lawmaking would be needed to change that. I don't imagine anyone in state government is even aware of a problem in need of such a solution, and they're probably not misinformed.

[The Ghostbuster]

Interstate 86 (both present and future segments) probably doesn't need to be a tollway. I just hope someday the entire corridor between Interstates 90 and 87 are upgraded to full Interstate Standards. Of course, that could take decades or even centuries.

[seicer]

There are no justifications for tolling. Much of the I-86/NY 17 corridor have very low traffic counts until you get into the Binghamton metro or toward the eastern fringes - the latter mostly because of the Jewish camps and the Catskill Mountains. There are portions west of Binghamton and east of Binghamton that don't register 10,000 vehicles per day.

I'm still on board with designating I-86 along the corridor, but as a frequent traveler along the route, it really needs priority fixes closer to the eastern end: removing substandard ramps; adding full width shoulders; widening from I-84 to I-87. Hale Eddy can wait, but even still, there are some serious curvatures along that one particular stretch that deserve reconstruction.

[sbeaver44]

I agree with sparker in 86/17 being way more interesting than 80 in PA, along with the towns along it.  Coming from Harrisburg to Ohio I'll take US 322 to 80 to save $$$ vs the Turnpike, but the Turnpike is 10 times more interesting to me than 80.

[lstone19]

There are no justifications for tolling. Much of the I-86/NY 17 corridor have very low traffic counts until you get into the Binghamton metro or toward the eastern fringes - the latter mostly because of the Jewish camps and the Catskill Mountains. There are portions west of Binghamton and east of Binghamton that don't register 10,000 vehicles per day.

I-86/NY 17 has surprisingly little value as a through route between New York City and Binghamton as for any traffic doing that that can cross the Hudson at the GWB or farther south, I-80/I-380/I-81 is faster and shorter. Having gone to school at Cornell (Ithaca), that was one of the things I quickly learned (even long before the days of nav apps). To the extent that my fellow students or their parents used NY 17, it was mostly because they couldn't believe that the fastest route between two points in New York State was via NJ and PA.

One oddity back then was there was a good amount of Greyhound bus service from Rochester, through Ithaca and Binghamton and on to NYC. All trips went via Scranton (whether they stopped there or not) except for one a week that went via NY 17, the TZB, and eventually surface streets in Manhattan to get to the PABT (and reverse). This was because as this was an intra-state route, while Greyhound could use their inter-state rights to go via PA and NJ, they still had to make on intra-state trip per week to protect their rights in the market. This was also true for the charter bus I used to get home once as they had no rights to operate outside NYS. This routing oddity also applied to the NYC-Albany and beyond buses that went NJ 17 to the Thruway except again for one a week. But this was all 40+ years ago.

[cl94]

My family generally used 17 over 80-380-81 between Buffalo and NYC/Long Island. Combination of being able to avoid I-80 traffic, lower tolls at Bear Mountain/Tappan Zee, and preferring the scenery along 17. In my experience, it is a wash in terms of time and highly dependent on traffic conditions.

[webny99]

I-86/NY 17 has surprisingly little value as a through route between New York City and Binghamton as for any traffic doing that that can cross the Hudson at the GWB or farther south, I-80/I-380/I-81 is faster and shorter.

Yeah, I-86/NY 17 makes the most sense for Westchester and Rockland counties as a connection to the rest of the state. The southern sections still manage to be pretty busy though, especially between I-87 and I-84, despite having not as much long-distance traffic to Binghamton and beyond as you might expect.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^
The times I've been on NY 17's eastern section I've found that there seems to be quite a bit of local traffic from the east end of the freeway at I-87 west to about US 209; the traffic levels drop significantly as one continues west from there all the way to the Hale Eddy section.  It picks up again a bit west of Deposit; likely locals heading to and from the Binghamton area for employment or shopping.  But the level of commercial  truck/trailer traffic is quite low until west of I-81, where that picks up substantially.  I'm surmising that more than a few NYC Metro-Rochester and/or Buffalo commercial movements utilize NY17/I-86 west of Binghamton, eventually segueing onto I-390, to avoid Thruway tolls as much as possible -- which bolsters my view that NYDOT should concentrate on fully upgrading NY 17 to I-86 west of Binghamton before expending any significant effort on the corridor east of there.   

[webny99]

I'm surmising that more than a few NYC Metro-Rochester and/or Buffalo commercial movements utilize NY17/I-86 west of Binghamton, eventually segueing onto I-390, to avoid Thruway tolls as much as possible -- which bolsters my view that NYDOT should concentrate on fully upgrading NY 17 to I-86 west of Binghamton before expending any significant effort on the corridor east of there.   

Certainly, and actually much more so for Buffalo (and points west of I-390 in general) than Rochester. In fact, I-86>I-390>US 20A is the preferred car route from Binghamton to Buffalo, being 25 miles and usually at least a few minutes shorter than the I-81>Thruway route. For Rochester, on the other hand, it's actually 15 miles and at least as many minutes longer to take I-86/I-390*, owing to the circuitous routing of I-390 and the fact that there's no direct freeway into downtown from the south.

It's actually surprising how much truck traffic drops off as you head north on I-390, owing to all the WNY and Ontario bound trucks taking Exits 6/7 to cut the corner. Indeed, an extended NY 400 freeway to Mount Morris has always been a pipe dream of mine for that very reason.



*Sidebar: this is why you'll hear people from Rochester (myself included) grumbling about the ongoing I-81 removal discussion: I-81 is the route from Rochester to Binghamton and beyond. I-86/I-390 is sometimes brought up as an alternative, but because it's 15 minutes longer, that doesn't check out: no matter what, a viaduct teardown puts us Rochesterians in a particularly unfortunate spot. Buffalo doesn't have this problem - it's already quicker for them to use NY 400/US 20A, so whatever ends up happening in Syracuse will only reinforce that.

[famartin]

I was most annoyed by my IphoneX which insisted I take the Thruway exit to I-86 the other day, even though its not signed in any way, shape or form.

[yakra]

GUYS WHERE'S EXIT 22

[okc1]

GUYS WHERE'S EXIT 22

Reserved for a possible US 219 interchange in Salamanca https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region5/projects/us-route-219/location

[amroad17]

The proposed interchange (EXIT 22) should be here...
https://goo.gl/maps/PLhbSk2TxgvdZaRD8

The overpass mounds are still noticeable when driving through this section...
https://goo.gl/maps/M9nyadLR11tfSTWR6

[Henry]

GUYS WHERE'S EXIT 22

Reserved for a possible US 219 interchange in Salamanca https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region5/projects/us-route-219/location

That is, if they're serious about that Somerset-Buffalo expressway proposal.

[sparker]

GUYS WHERE'S EXIT 22

Reserved for a possible US 219 interchange in Salamanca https://www.dot.ny.gov/regional-offices/region5/projects/us-route-219/location

That is, if they're serious about that Somerset-Buffalo expressway proposal.

IIRC, that was indefinitely shelved back in the early 2000's after bypassing Springville; lack of both funding and official support cited as the reason.

[TheDon102]

From 17Forward86 last week
https://twitter.com/17Forward86/status/1321944577884987392

Maybe we'll get to see 86 in our lifetimes....This would make NY-17 interstate standard in Orange and most of Sullivan county.

[NJRoadfan]

That third lane on NY-17 has been LONG needed. It still baffles me why they rebuilt most of that section but left it 4 lanes with no provision for 6 lanes.

[roadwaywiz95]

For this upcoming weekend's Webinar presentation, we'll be taking a look at the freeway system of New York's Southern Tier region in and around Binghamton, NY. Coverage will begin on Saturday (12/12) at 6 PM ET and will feature live contributions from members of this forum; we hope to see you there!

[The Ghostbuster]

Will this Webinar have any updates on when NY 17 between Waverly and Binghamton will finally become part of Interstate 86?

[roadwaywiz95]

Yes, the status of interstate improvements west of Binghamton will be among the topics discussed along the way.

[Rothman]

That's dicey.  I wouldn't take anyone's word for what's happening with I-86 unless they're on the top floor of NYSDOT's MO.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[roadwaywiz95]

Our next installment in the "Virtual Tour" series is scheduled to take place on Saturday (12/19) at 6 PM ET. Come join me and members of the AARoads community as we profile NY Route 17/Interstate 86 across the Catskill region of New York State and discuss the history and features of this highway (also known as the "Quickway") all while enjoying a real-time video trip along the length of the highway between Harriman and Binghamton.

A link to the event location can be found below and we look forward to seeing you in attendance: