'Blue Sheet With Seal' State flags, in general

[mgk920]

Inspired by the recent actions by the Minnesota state legislature, what changes wold you make to the other USA state flags that are blue sheets with a seal or other image in the middle.  For example, Wisconsin modified its flag around 1980 by adding 'WISCONSIN' and '1848' to the design to make it more identifiable.

Mike

[ran4sh]

If nothing else, change the flag to use a state color instead of just the common navy blue.

State colors are, of course, up to each state. But pretty much every state has a flagship university that participates in athletics and therefore has specific colors that those athletic teams use. Those could be used as flag colors too.

Remove any text element, obviously.

[jlam]

Just remove the blue bedsheet idea in general. Each flag should be representative of its respective state, not the product of a template. I understand that the state seal is very important for eastern states, so they could implement features from those in the flags.

For example, Wisconsin modified its flag around 1980 by adding 'WISCONSIN' and '1848' to the design to make it more identifiable.

That was the worst possible way to "fix" the flag. There are better ways to make flags more identifiable than by putting the state name on them.

[Rothman]

If nothing else, change the flag to use a state color instead of just the common navy blue.

State colors are, of course, up to each state. But pretty much every state has a flagship university that participates in athletics and therefore has specific colors that those athletic teams use. Those could be used as flag colors too.

Remove any text element, obviously.

I don't see why removing text elements is obvious.  In fact, in comparing flags without text to flags with text, I find some with it superior.

[Genghixiani]

So glad some states (First Utah, and now Minnesota) are changing their flags to better ones. It is about time it happens!

[1995hoo]

I assume it's only a matter of time before the rewriters of history come for Virginia's flag because it has the words "Sic Semper Tyrannis" displayed. The quotation is attributed to Brutus during the assassination of Julius Caesar, but John Wilkes Booth also used it when he shot Lincoln and no doubt some people would be blinded by that association.

No doubt some people at the other extreme end of the political spectrum object to the flag having a bare female breast displayed.

[Scott5114]

If nothing else, change the flag to use a state color instead of just the common navy blue.

State colors are, of course, up to each state. But pretty much every state has a flagship university that participates in athletics and therefore has specific colors that those athletic teams use. Those could be used as flag colors too.

Remove any text element, obviously.

I don't see why removing text elements is obvious.  In fact, in comparing flags without text to flags with text, I find some with it superior.

Traditionally, a flag's design is supposed to be distinct from far away, since it would be carried by a marching army and you need to know whether you should be getting ready to shoot at them or not. A flag that you can only tell who it belongs to when it gets close enough to read the two-inch text at the bottom of it kind of fails at the purpose of a flag.

(Oklahoma's flag originally had no text on it, but then they added the word OKLAHOMA to "improve literacy". Explain to me how that works...)

[Genghixiani]

If nothing else, change the flag to use a state color instead of just the common navy blue.

State colors are, of course, up to each state. But pretty much every state has a flagship university that participates in athletics and therefore has specific colors that those athletic teams use. Those could be used as flag colors too.

Remove any text element, obviously.

I don't see why removing text elements is obvious.  In fact, in comparing flags without text to flags with text, I find some with it superior.

Traditionally, a flag's design is supposed to be distinct from far away, since it would be carried by a marching army and you need to know whether you should be getting ready to shoot at them or not. A flag that you can only tell who it belongs to when it gets close enough to read the two-inch text at the bottom of it kind of fails at the purpose of a flag.

(Oklahoma's flag originally had no text on it, but then they added the word OKLAHOMA to "improve literacy". Explain to me how that works...)

Easy: It doesn't.

[SP Cook]

IMHO,

- You cannot force meaning and history.  Some states have great interesting flags because of meaningful issues in the past, some have the state seal on a blue because they don't. 

- Yeah, there are 100 YouTubes out there of some person's, often some kid's, basic stereotype of a state (horse for KY, peach for GA, dice for NV, etc.) but that is just silly. 

- Minnesota's flag, while they made up some "the blue is for the lakes, and the star is the north star..." ho-ha is meaningless.  It could just as easily be the flag of Florida, or Zambia.  Same goes for Utah's.  Yes, I get the Mormon symbolism of the beehive, but I doubt most people do.

- The Indian and Civil War arguments will never be resolved, in the state seal context or 100 other contexts, so talking about them is pointless.

- Likewise some states have great state seals (Ohio, Virginia, Nebraska), others have one or two allegorical ancients or two 19th century characters shaking hands or the like.  It is what it is.

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause. 

[kphoger]

Traditionally, a flag's design is supposed to be distinct from far away, since it would be carried by a marching army and you need to know whether you should be getting ready to shoot at them or not.

This is meaningless in the context of state flags.  I don't foresee Kansas and Oklahoma fighting it out on the battlefield anytime soon.

[Rothman]

If nothing else, change the flag to use a state color instead of just the common navy blue.

State colors are, of course, up to each state. But pretty much every state has a flagship university that participates in athletics and therefore has specific colors that those athletic teams use. Those could be used as flag colors too.

Remove any text element, obviously.

I don't see why removing text elements is obvious.  In fact, in comparing flags without text to flags with text, I find some with it superior.

Traditionally, a flag's design is supposed to be distinct from far away, since it would be carried by a marching army and you need to know whether you should be getting ready to shoot at them or not. A flag that you can only tell who it belongs to when it gets close enough to read the two-inch text at the bottom of it kind of fails at the purpose of a flag.

(Oklahoma's flag originally had no text on it, but then they added the word OKLAHOMA to "improve literacy". Explain to me how that works...)

These are State flags we're talking about.  Although I am amused by the idea of a new civil war where armies or battalions go marching into combat with their actual State flags, most flag displays are decorative or even meant to be viewed up close (e.g., in conference rooms).

I still prefer detail to the modern, too-crisp look of the newer flags.

Maybe NY should change its flag to a close-up of the foot kicking the crown...

[kkt]

Just remove the blue bedsheet idea in general. Each flag should be representative of its respective state, not the product of a template. I understand that the state seal is very important for eastern states, so they could implement features from those in the flags.

For example, Wisconsin modified its flag around 1980 by adding 'WISCONSIN' and '1848' to the design to make it more identifiable.

That was the worst possible way to "fix" the flag. There are better ways to make flags more identifiable than by putting the state name on them.

But a seal in the middle of the flag results in detail that's much too small to see when the flag is flying.  Instead, they should take the most distinctive, recognizable detail from the seal and fill the flag with it.  See how the old Canadian red ensign's maple leaf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign) was enlarged to be a recognizable element on the current Canadian flag.

[mgk920]

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause.

Georgia's new state flag has the symbol of the University of Georgia in its blue ensign.

Mike

[GaryV]

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause.

Georgia's new state flag has the symbol of the University of Georgia in its blue ensign.

Mike

And no one from Georgia Tech minds? (Let alone any smaller state schools and private colleges.)

Try that in Michigan. UM and State fans would go nuts if the flag colors were either of the other school's.

[Big John]

Try that in Michigan. UM and State fans would go nuts if the flag colors were either of the other school's.

Yet the state highway signs have UM's logo on it.

[ran4sh]

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause.

Georgia's new state flag has the symbol of the University of Georgia in its blue ensign.

Mike

It's a state symbol, which is why it is appropriate for use both on the flag and at the university.

[mgk920]

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause.

Georgia's new state flag has the symbol of the University of Georgia in its blue ensign.

Mike

And no one from Georgia Tech minds? (Let alone any smaller state schools and private colleges.)

Try that in Michigan. UM and State fans would go nuts if the flag colors were either of the other school's.

Would Michigan Tech's colors do?

Mike

[GaryV]

- I am unaware of what a "flagship" university is.  One where one studies sailing?  If you mean a university named with same word(s) as on your driver's license, then good luck muddling through all the arguments that would cause.

Georgia's new state flag has the symbol of the University of Georgia in its blue ensign.

Mike

And no one from Georgia Tech minds? (Let alone any smaller state schools and private colleges.)

Try that in Michigan. UM and State fans would go nuts if the flag colors were either of the other school's.

Would Michigan Tech's colors do?

Mike

A flag with a picture of blank and yellow striped overalls?

[epzik8]

Maryland doesn't fit this template, as can be clearly seen, so I'll go with Pennsylvania's, which first and foremost must have a keystone front and center.

[mgk920]

Maryland doesn't fit this template, as can be clearly seen, so I'll go with Pennsylvania's, which first and foremost must have a keystone front and center.

I wonder what New York would use.  Ditto New Jersey, even though there's is not a dark blue sheet.
Nike

[ErmineNotyours]

Just remove the blue bedsheet idea in general. Each flag should be representative of its respective state, not the product of a template. I understand that the state seal is very important for eastern states, so they could implement features from those in the flags.

For example, Wisconsin modified its flag around 1980 by adding 'WISCONSIN' and '1848' to the design to make it more identifiable.

That was the worst possible way to "fix" the flag. There are better ways to make flags more identifiable than by putting the state name on them.

But a seal in the middle of the flag results in detail that's much too small to see when the flag is flying.  Instead, they should take the most distinctive, recognizable detail from the seal and fill the flag with it.  See how the old Canadian red ensign's maple leaf (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Red_Ensign) was enlarged to be a recognizable element on the current Canadian flag.

I fell into the history of Canadian flags thanks to your link, and then this came over the transom:

[bulldog1979]

When Governor Snyder was preparing to assume office, he issued a call for fresh ideas to say that a new day was starting in Michigan. I submitted two proposals to change our state flag. I got no response, and our flag was left unchanged.

In terms of issues, the store where I work was once shipped a case of Minnesota state flags that had been mislabeled as Michigan flags. I mean, it was still a blue flag with a seal on it from a state that started with MI... from a distance, no one would know any better, right? Therein lies the problem with all of these similar flags. From a distance, you just can't tell them apart. If the purpose of a flag is to be identifiable, they fail in their incredible similarity. They do work internally to a state because we're each nominally familiar with our state seal, but few among us are familiar with all of the state seals to start making guesses on the other flag designs. When you have to resort to adding text to a flag, you've failed Vexillology 101. I'm hopefully this redesign trend carries on.

[hobsini2]

Traditionally, a flag's design is supposed to be distinct from far away, since it would be carried by a marching army and you need to know whether you should be getting ready to shoot at them or not.

This is meaningless in the context of state flags.  I don't foresee Kansas and Oklahoma fighting it out on the battlefield anytime soon.

It wasn't so far in the history of this country that states did fight over borders. If you are not familiar with it, look up the Toledo Strip War between Ohio and Michigan because of a cartographical error. This resulted in Toledo being in Ohio and as compensation, Michigan got the Upper Peninsula which was part of the Wisconsin Territory at the time.

It also goes for local jurisdictions too. Ever wonder why when you look at a map of Downtown Milwaukee the bridges are at odd angles over the Milwaukee River? Before Milwaukee was a unified city, it was made up of 3 rival towns. Juneautown, Kilbourntown and Walker's Point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_Bridge_War

[hobsini2]

Try that in Michigan. UM and State fans would go nuts if the flag colors were either of the other school's.

Yet the state highway signs have UM's logo on it.

Compromise. The state highways get the UM logo M and the state flag background becomes Spartan Green.

[thenetwork]

...And then there's Ohio with their state "pennant" ....