US 99 Midway Palm and Pine

[Max Rockatansky]

Along modern day California State Route 99 south of Avenue 11 just outside the City limits of Madera one can find the Midway Palm and Pine in the center median of the freeway.  The Midway Palm and Pine denotes the halfway point between the Mexican Border and Oregon State Line on what was US Route 99.  The Midway Palm is intended to represent Southern California whereas the Midway Pine is intended to represent Northern California.  Pictured in the blog cover is the Midway Palm and Pine as can be seen from the northbound lanes of the California State Route 99 Freeway. 

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/the-midway-palm-and-pine-of-us-route-99.html

[sparker]

Along modern day California State Route 99 south of Avenue 11 just outside the City limits of Madera one can find the Midway Palm and Pine in the center median of the freeway.  The Midway Palm and Pine denotes the halfway point between the Mexican Border and Oregon State Line on what was US Route 99.  The Midway Palm is intended to represent Southern California whereas the Midway Pine is intended to represent Northern California.  Pictured in the blog cover is the Midway Palm and Pine as can be seen from the northbound lanes of the California State Route 99 Freeway. 

https://www.gribblenation.org/2021/08/the-midway-palm-and-pine-of-us-route-99.html

Nice to see one of the old US 99 artifacts has been preserved.  Now -- if they could bring back some of the old round OJ stands......the last one standing was at Berenda Lane south of the 99/152 junction north of Madera.

[RZF]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

[Alps]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

[Max Rockatansky]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

Really these would be a better way to describe the actual regions of California:

-  Los Angeles, Inland Empire and Santa Barbara-Ventura
-  San Diego Metro Area
-  Sonoran Desert, Mojave Desert and Owens Valley
-  Central Valley
-  Sierra Nevada Foothills and Lake Tahoe
-  San Francisco Bay Area
-  State of Jefferson
-  Monterey Peninsula, Salinas Valley and Coast south to Gaviota Pass

[sparker]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

SLO-area folks always seem torn between identifying with SoCal or the northern portion of the state.  Right now I'd opine that they're leaning south, since becoming a weekend destination location for wine-tasting, their customer base comes more from greater L.A. than up north -- we have four or five distinct wine regions of our own within a couple of hours of either S.F. or San Jose, so schlepping south through the Salinas Valley (itself with several serious wineries) isn't prioritized for Bay folks partaking of that activity.   Of course, Cal Poly students and faculty, like with most universities outside mega-urban areas, generally identify with their origin region (unless they're locals as well). 

[skluth]

I'm guessing the Palm and Pine are relics that nobody cared much about. It seems strange that this is not off to the side of the highway with a rest area and appropriate marker. As it currently exists, I doubt most people who see the trees even know why they exists as they drive past them. I certainly would be oblivious if it hadn't been for this thread.

[heynow415]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

SLO-area folks always seem torn between identifying with SoCal or the northern portion of the state.  Right now I'd opine that they're leaning south, since becoming a weekend destination location for wine-tasting, their customer base comes more from greater L.A. than up north -- we have four or five distinct wine regions of our own within a couple of hours of either S.F. or San Jose, so schlepping south through the Salinas Valley (itself with several serious wineries) isn't prioritized for Bay folks partaking of that activity.   Of course, Cal Poly students and faculty, like with most universities outside mega-urban areas, generally identify with their origin region (unless they're locals as well).

Having gone to Poly, I concur.  People did allude to SLO being northern or southern CA depending on where they were from.  For folks there, the tongue-in-cheek dividing line between northern and southern CA was the Madonna Inn with similar jokes of "if you're going north, you take 101, but if you're going south, you take 'the' 101.

[sparker]

I'm guessing the Palm and Pine are relics that nobody cared much about. It seems strange that this is not off to the side of the highway with a rest area and appropriate marker. As it currently exists, I doubt most people who see the trees even know why they exists as they drive past them. I certainly would be oblivious if it hadn't been for this thread.

Why strange?  It was placed in the median of the old US 99 expressway and is now part of the median of the current facility configuration.  Having just pulled out a 175-foot acacia tree on our property that was buckling concrete, I can see why Caltrans would simply leave it where it is rather than try to move it -- just put a barrier around the pair and call it a day. 

[pderocco]

I thought that looked like a cedar in the Street View. Whoever planted the replacement didn't know much about trees.

The palm looks pretty short, too. I wonder if it was ever replaced.

[Max Rockatansky]

I thought that looked like a cedar in the Street View. Whoever planted the replacement didn't know much about trees.

The palm looks pretty short, too. I wonder if it was ever replaced.

Both the original "pine"  and current one were cedars.  The Palm appears to be the same that appeared in California's Gold.

[sparker]

I thought that looked like a cedar in the Street View. Whoever planted the replacement didn't know much about trees.

The palm looks pretty short, too. I wonder if it was ever replaced.

Both the original "pine"  and current one were cedars.  The Palm appears to be the same that appeared in California's Gold.

Makes sense -- cedars require less water to survive than do most other evergreens (except Ponderosa pine, which tends to look scraggly), and Caltrans, for obvious reasons, prefers low-water foliage in the medians (hence the extensive use of oleander, which also is water miserly).  And, of course, palms will grow in all type of "Mediterranean" soils, from sands to loam.  When the original US/CA 91 freeway through Riverside was built as a 2+2 facility circa 1961, there were palms in the median (still there when I attended UCR later that decade); of course when the median was filled in when the freeway was expanded they were removed.  So unless there's a deliberate move to move them, both the palm and the cedar in the middle of 99 are probably permanent fixtures.

[usends]

Thanks for posting this; I was previously unaware of the Palm and Pine.  Naturally I was curious how close the trees were planted to the true midpoint of US 99.  I found that the Palm and Pine are about 11 miles north of the midpoint (which was actually in Fresno).  That fact, combined with the likelihood that the original trees were planted prior to 1926, leads me to believe they were never intended to be at the midpoint of US 99.  Rather, I suspect they were located at a point on a major highway that was close to the geographic center of the state.

[Max Rockatansky]

Thanks for posting this; I was previously unaware of the Palm and Pine.  Naturally I was curious how close the trees were planted to the true midpoint of US 99.  I found that the Palm and Pine are about 11 miles north of the midpoint (which was actually in Fresno).  That fact, combined with the likelihood that the original trees were planted prior to 1926, leads me to believe they were never intended to be at the midpoint of US 99.  Rather, I suspect they were located at a point on a major highway that was close to the geographic center of the state.

I thought that might be the case with Legislative Route Number 4 which was literally a State Highway defined as "Sacramento to Los Angeles."  The trees turns out aren't quite the midpoint of LRN 4, it would have also been approximately Fresno.  One rumor I've heard but can't find a way to substantiate is that the trees were once thought to be the center of California.  Supposedly there is a USGS monument in the center median, but I've never seen a photo of it nor can I find any information to suggest it is real.  Given how far northeast the actual geographic center of California actually is I don't think even early 20th survey teams would have concluded it was it was in San Joaquin Valley.  It did occur to me also that the location of the trees could be a total coincidence that morphed into an actual story over time.

[sparker]

When I was a kid, we made several trips a year up 99 from Glendale to Sacramento to visit relatives; my dad, always curious about things, made it a point, via the odometer, to determine the halfway point, which turned out to be about a mile south of Selma.  Since the starting point at Glendale was about 11 miles north of downtown L.A., I subsequently placed the central point of a L.A.-Sacramento drive to be just about at the Kings River bridge a few miles south of that.  Now -- since, with slight variations in mileage due to realignments over the years, US 99 stretched about 223 miles from downtown L.A. to the Mexican border at Calexico -- and from Sacramento to the Oregon line via the original US 99 (later 99W) was, also allowing for alignment adjustments, approximately 290 miles, the midpoint would have been half the difference (67/2, or 33.5 miles) north of the Kings River bridge on US 99.  And -- that places it in Madera County north of the San Joaquin River and south of Madera -- just where the monument is situated.  What that tells us is that even if the trees were planted prior to the 1926 designation of US 99, there was a general agreement as to the alignment of the basic routing, right down to the long E-W section east of Los Angeles.  It would have been fun to have been the proverbial "fly on the wall" over the course of the joint federal/state conferences that established the routes, especially in topographically-challenged California!     

[usends]

When I was a kid, we made several trips a year up 99 from Glendale to Sacramento to visit relatives; my dad, always curious about things, made it a point, via the odometer, to determine the halfway point, which turned out to be about a mile south of Selma.  Since the starting point at Glendale was about 11 miles north of downtown L.A., I subsequently placed the central point of a L.A.-Sacramento drive to be just about at the Kings River bridge a few miles south of that.  Now -- since, with slight variations in mileage due to realignments over the years, US 99 stretched about 223 miles from downtown L.A. to the Mexican border at Calexico -- and from Sacramento to the Oregon line via the original US 99 (later 99W) was, also allowing for alignment adjustments, approximately 290 miles, the midpoint would have been half the difference (67/2, or 33.5 miles) north of the Kings River bridge on US 99.  And -- that places it in Madera County north of the San Joaquin River and south of Madera -- just where the monument is situated. 

I'm not sure I'm completely on-board with your method of calculating the midpoint.  What is the value you're using for X below?

North segment (Oregon to Sacto) = "approx. 290 mi."
Central segment (Sacto to L.A.) = X mi.
South segment (L.A. to Calexico) = "about 223 mi."

[sparker]

When I was a kid, we made several trips a year up 99 from Glendale to Sacramento to visit relatives; my dad, always curious about things, made it a point, via the odometer, to determine the halfway point, which turned out to be about a mile south of Selma.  Since the starting point at Glendale was about 11 miles north of downtown L.A., I subsequently placed the central point of a L.A.-Sacramento drive to be just about at the Kings River bridge a few miles south of that.  Now -- since, with slight variations in mileage due to realignments over the years, US 99 stretched about 223 miles from downtown L.A. to the Mexican border at Calexico -- and from Sacramento to the Oregon line via the original US 99 (later 99W) was, also allowing for alignment adjustments, approximately 290 miles, the midpoint would have been half the difference (67/2, or 33.5 miles) north of the Kings River bridge on US 99.  And -- that places it in Madera County north of the San Joaquin River and south of Madera -- just where the monument is situated. 

I'm not sure I'm completely on-board with your method of calculating the midpoint.  What is the value you're using for X below?

North segment (Oregon to Sacto) = "approx. 290 mi."
Central segment (Sacto to L.A.) = X mi.
South segment (L.A. to Calexico) = "about 223 mi."

L.A.-Sacramento = 391 miles via original US 99 alignment
223+391+290=904 miles total, with the halfway point being 452 miles.
452-223 (halfway point minus US 99 south/east of downtown L.A.=229 miles.
86 of those miles are U.S. 99 from L.A. to the current I-5/CA 99 split at Wheeler Ridge.
229-86=143 miles up US/CA 99, interpolated due to route shortening via Bakersfield bypass freeway, partially mitigated by Delano and Tulare bypasses; Kingsburg through Fresno is pretty much a wash via the old route vs. current freeway.  Exit #144 of CA 99 is in Madera County north of the San Joaquin River, so given a slight bit of "wiggle room" for the mileage adjustments cited above + other route deviations since 1926, it's pretty damn close to where the monument is sited.

BTW, the 391 miles comes from older Gousha calculations from the mid-'50's, which means it included the San Fernando Road section north of central L.A. and would have followed the Piru Gorge alignment through the mountains.  The Gousha cartographers were pretty damn accurate; it's a shame they're no longer in operation!   

[Max Rockatansky]

Courtesy Daniel from the CTC regarding the Midway Palm and Pine (AKA where Palm meets Pine):

06-Mad-99, PM 0.1/8.1
Resolution E-21-55
Reference No.: 2.2c.(1) June 23-24, 2021 Page 7 of 8
The attached resolution proposes to approve for future consideration of funding the following project for which a Mitigated Negative Declaration (MND) has been completed:
-        State Route (SR) 99 in Madera County. Widen SR 99 from four lanes to six lanes in Madera County. (PPNO 6297)
This project is located on SR 99 from just north of Avenue 7 to Avenue 12 (post miles 0.1 to 8.1) in Madera County. The scope of the project is to widen SR 99 in Madera County. One lane would be built in each direction in the highway median to create a six-lane highway. Additionally, the existing lanes and shoulders of SR 99 would be rehabilitated, and a concrete median barrier would be installed along with an auxiliary lane at the Avenue 12 northbound off-ramp. This project is currently programmed in the 2020 State Transportation Improvement Program (STIP) for a total of $110,873,000, which includes STIP funding, local funds, Proposition 1B SR 99 funds, and Senate Bill 1 Trade Corridor Enhancement Program funds. Of the total programmed $110,873,000 amount, there is an unfunded need of
$92,500,000.  Construction is estimated to begin in 2023-24. The scope, as described for the preferred alternative, is consistent with the project scope programmed by the Commission in the 2020 STIP.
A copy of the MND has been provided to Commission staff.  The project will result in less than significant impacts to the environment after mitigation.  The following resource areas may be impacted by the project: aesthetics, paleontology, and greenhouse gases.  Avoidance and minimization measures will reduce any potential effects on the environment. These measures include, but are not limited to, relocation of the "Where the Palm Meets the Pine"  landmark in the median; pre-construction training, monitoring, identification, and curation of significant fossils if discovered; and the installation of electric vehicle chargers.  As a result, an MND was completed for this project.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Any indication as to where the trees (and any associated signage) would be located after the widening?  My guess would be somewhere outside the NB lanes in the ROW between the NB carriageway and the UP tracks.

[Max Rockatansky]

That's a good question, I initially assumed on the southbound lanes given how close the northbound freeway is to the UP tracks. 

[sparker]

That's a good question, I initially assumed on the southbound lanes given how close the northbound freeway is to the UP tracks. 

Generally, Caltrans would rather make a phone call to UP to get easement on their property -- as long as it didn't impinge on the track itself -- than deal with an agricultural entity who would probably piss and moan about having to part with even a small piece of land -- and if it's a sizeable agribusiness, they tend to be a bit litigious (my former father-in-law's firm represented a number of Fresno-area mega-farms -- and business was always good!)

[Max Rockatansky]

That's a good question, I initially assumed on the southbound lanes given how close the northbound freeway is to the UP tracks. 

Generally, Caltrans would rather make a phone call to UP to get easement on their property -- as long as it didn't impinge on the track itself -- than deal with an agricultural entity who would probably piss and moan about having to part with even a small piece of land -- and if it's a sizeable agribusiness, they tend to be a bit litigious (my former father-in-law's firm represented a number of Fresno-area mega-farms -- and business was always good!)

Looking south at the interchanges at Avenue 9 and Avenue 7 you can definitely see the DOH opted for something like that with the ramp configurations.  Amusingly this led to the situation where some older concrete segments of US 99 have been preserved alongside the UP tracks.

[bing101]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

Really these would be a better way to describe the actual regions of California:

-  Los Angeles, Inland Empire and Santa Barbara-Ventura
-  San Diego Metro Area
-  Sonoran Desert, Mojave Desert and Owens Valley
-  Central Valley
-  Sierra Nevada Foothills and Lake Tahoe
-  San Francisco Bay Area
-  State of Jefferson
-  Monterey Peninsula, Salinas Valley and Coast south to Gaviota Pass

To be fair the central valley can be split into 2 parts too. Sacramento Valley and San Joaquin Valley.

[Max Rockatansky]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

Really these would be a better way to describe the actual regions of California:

-  Los Angeles, Inland Empire and Santa Barbara-Ventura
-  San Diego Metro Area
-  Sonoran Desert, Mojave Desert and Owens Valley
-  Central Valley
-  Sierra Nevada Foothills and Lake Tahoe
-  San Francisco Bay Area
-  State of Jefferson
-  Monterey Peninsula, Salinas Valley and Coast south to Gaviota Pass

To be fair the central valley can be split into 2 parts too. Sacramento Valley and San Joaquin Valley.

They both are heavy agriculture centric.  The mode of living is very similar between the two.

[mrsman]

To be fair, California is more divided into 3 parts, (Southern, Central, Northern), but that's for another thread.

"Central" is really more "east of I-5". The north/south stuff seems to be limited to the western half.

Really these would be a better way to describe the actual regions of California:

-  Los Angeles, Inland Empire and Santa Barbara-Ventura
-  San Diego Metro Area
-  Sonoran Desert, Mojave Desert and Owens Valley
-  Central Valley
-  Sierra Nevada Foothills and Lake Tahoe
-  San Francisco Bay Area
-  State of Jefferson
-  Monterey Peninsula, Salinas Valley and Coast south to Gaviota Pass

To be fair the central valley can be split into 2 parts too. Sacramento Valley and San Joaquin Valley.

They both are heavy agriculture centric.  The mode of living is very similar between the two.

And for anyone from the coastal areas that are far denser, it is easier to group together all of the folks in the cenral valley as one.  Those folks over there in the "heartland" of CA.