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TX: New Horizontal TxDOT Signal Installation in Ft Worth District

Started by Brian556, January 21, 2017, 06:38:51 PM

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Brian556

TxDOT District 2 (Ft Worth) has historically differed from the rest of the state in that they have vertical traffic signal installations. However, this brand new installation at the US 81/287 / BUSINESSS US 287 / FM 718 junction in N Tarrant Co has horizontal heads.

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9676781,-97.4203481,3a,64.3y,337.45h,82.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCDPg94slmAr1c7VxL-h60Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1


Scott5114

Has TxDOT ever given any reason for preferring the horizontal heads?
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

codyg1985

Quote from: Scott5114 on January 24, 2017, 03:14:28 AM
Has TxDOT ever given any reason for preferring the horizontal heads?

My guess is to reduce wind resistance and vertical clearance issues, but who knows.
Cody Goodman
Huntsville, AL, United States

roadman65

I was wondering what were the boundaries of the use of vertical mounted signals as I saw them in Fort Worth City Limits and outside the city.  They changed at a certain point as you headed to Dallas, but thought it was a county line as Fort Worth is Tarrant (except watch Walker, Texas Ranger with Chuck Norris and in that show Dallas is part of Tarrant County) while Dallas is part of Dallas County (with a small part of that city in a neighboring county to the east).

Thanks for clearing that one up.  Also San Antonio uses vertical mounts and the signals along TX 87 in Galveston are vertical mounts as well.  The area outside the SA City Limits uses span wire as well so it looks like you are in Indiana or Ohio instead of Texas.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Brian556

Dallas does still have a ton of older style installations poles with vertical heads

Revive 755

Quote from: Brian556 on January 21, 2017, 06:38:51 PM
https://www.google.com/maps/@32.9676781,-97.4203481,3a,64.3y,337.45h,82.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sCDPg94slmAr1c7VxL-h60Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

I've been wondering for signals with layouts similar to the one shown on how much more it would cost to just use a 'bridge' design (example) rather than the two mast arms separated by a short distance (as used here for the FM 718/Avondale -Haslet legs).  Seems the 'bridge' option would be more stable.

jakeroot

Why not post this in the Traffic Signal thread? Seems more traffic control-related than something belonging in the regional boards. You'd get a lot more attention if you posted it over there. I only saw this thread because I clicked on the "unread posts" link above.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5944.0

PS: This goes for most of your new threads. Many of them seem to be about things that could have gone into another thread in the traffic control board. The decision is yours of course, but you do seem to be littering threads when you don't need to.

The Ghostbuster

Here in Wisconsin, we've always had horizontal signals, although vertical signals have been popping up over the last 15 to 20 years. I don't really have a preference, though. I'll leave it up to the administrators to decide whether or not this thread should be moved elsewhere.

Scott5114

Quote from: jakeroot on April 08, 2017, 12:40:44 PM
Why not post this in the Traffic Signal thread? Seems more traffic control-related than something belonging in the regional boards. You'd get a lot more attention if you posted it over there. I only saw this thread because I clicked on the "unread posts" link above.

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=5944.0

PS: This goes for most of your new threads. Many of them seem to be about things that could have gone into another thread in the traffic control board. The decision is yours of course, but you do seem to be littering threads when you don't need to.

Depending on the subject matter it can be better to post in the regional threads. It depends on if your audience is "people from all over who like this one thing a lot" or "people interested in this one region who may know about this thing". If I were posting about something a specific state DOT was doing, I'd probably use the regional board; that's what they're for.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

bjrush

I'm not sure why more places don't use horizontal. They look sleeker in my opinion. Maybe difficult for colorblind people to know which is which if not vertical? Just guessing here
Woo Pig Sooie

Sykotyk

Quote from: bjrush on April 16, 2017, 06:59:34 PM
I'm not sure why more places don't use horizontal. They look sleeker in my opinion. Maybe difficult for colorblind people to know which is which if not vertical? Just guessing here

During daylight, that's not a problem. And the new standard of using a reflective yellow border around the signal solves the problem for night.

jakeroot

Quote from: Sykotyk on April 20, 2017, 03:36:13 PM
Quote from: bjrush on April 16, 2017, 06:59:34 PM
I'm not sure why more places don't use horizontal. They look sleeker in my opinion. Maybe difficult for colorblind people to know which is which if not vertical? Just guessing here

During daylight, that's not a problem. And the new standard of using a reflective yellow border around the signal solves the problem for night.

Colourblind drivers still struggle with horizontal signals. My colourblind cousin, who lived in Houston for three years (growing up near Seattle where vertical signals are used), struggled constantly with signals. He basically just went when everyone else did.

If every agency in the US utilised horizontal signals, this wouldn't be a problem. But their relative rarity outside of certain places (like areas of Texas) mean that only some of the population will ever get used to them.

Scott5114

Quote from: jakeroot on April 20, 2017, 03:46:31 PM
If every agency in the US utilised horizontal signals, this wouldn't be a problem. But their relative rarity outside of certain places (like areas of Texas) mean that only some of the population will ever get used to them.

This is one of the things that I dislike about Oklahoma City's Project 180 downtown streetscape improvements. One of the changes is horizontal signals with fancy curved backplates. They look nice, but because P180 is specifically a downtown project, it means that in the 8th-largest city in the US by land area, which has uniformly installed vertical signals, the most dense, chaotic portion of town has horizontal signals. You can't tell me that isn't horrible on colorblind drivers. Worse, since P180 is still in progress, there's still a few random downtown intersections with vertical signals.

Mustang also has horizontal signals. So, downtown and one suburb in a metro that's otherwise vertical. Oklahoma transportation screwiness at its finest.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

roadman65

I would like to know why in many cases drawbridge signals are horizontal?  Here in Florida FDOT has been installing them after ridding themselves of the flashing red two section signals and NJ where I grew up used the horizontals for a good while, although I-280 WB in Newark and NJ 35 over Cheesequake Creek used standard vertical but many in the Garden State used horizontals.

Quote from: Brian556 on April 08, 2017, 10:48:27 AM
Dallas does still have a ton of older style installations poles with vertical heads
Yes, but many still are horizontal as I was there in 12 and 15.  Some, in Downtown Dallas were vertical, mainly the side mounts that the MUTCD don't want anymore including DC to install them overhead now.  Plus a few around, but not like Fort Worth where none that I at least seen that were horizontal at all.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

Rothman

Depends on the severity of the colorblindness.  Although I am colorblind, the red and green, although looking different to me than in normal vision, are quite distinguishable.

That said, I did have a great uncle that was one of those very rare people who had monochromatic vision.  Wonder what traffic lights looked like to him.

In MA, the RMV tested for colorblindness, at least as recently as the early 2000s.  If you couldn't tell the difference, no license for you.

Seems to me, those who couldn't tell the difference would be the very slim minority of even those that have some degree of colorblindness.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

roadman65

https://www.google.com/maps/@32.644116,-97.4101121,3a,75y,90h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOvDds3vp8TyTOMH_WjR6EQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 Here is one on Altamese Blvd during construction of the Chisolm Tollway.  Notice the temporary span wire is horizontal mounts while the regular signals are vertical.  In addition there are two kinds of left turn signals here as some are standard 3 section, while some are four section with two reds just like in the Houston Area.

This raises the question does Fort Worth generally use two red left turns for protected left turns like Houston, or does this region of TexDOT push for normal signal heads with one red ball or arrow?
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe



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