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New Ohio River Bridge US 51/60/62 IL/KY

Started by ilpt4u, May 07, 2018, 11:38:09 PM

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ilpt4u

IDOT's future project spending for the next few years has been posted, and there is funding there for a new bridge over the Ohio from Cairo to KY

According to the IDOT Report, KY (KTC?) is to be the Lead Agency on the project

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=7646.975
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/transportation-system/transportation-management/transportation-improvement-programs-/multi-modal-transportation-improvement-program/index

Seems like the Ohio is getting just a few new crossings into KY, over the last few years and into the next few years


seicer

#1
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.

hbelkins

I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

ColossalBlocks

Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.

I agree. Cairo is a shithole, why give the Missouri-Kentucky traffic the displeasure of passing through Cairo?
I am inactive for a while now my dudes. Good associating with y'all.

US Highways: 36, 49, 61, 412.

Interstates: 22, 24, 44, 55, 57, 59, 72, 74 (West).

index

Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

rte66man

Quote from: ColossalBlocks on May 12, 2018, 03:36:31 PM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 12, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
I still think the best option would be a bridge directly into Missouri from Kentucky.

I agree. Cairo is a shithole, why give the Missouri-Kentucky traffic the displeasure of passing through Cairo?

Thankfully you don't have to pass through Cairo going to/from Missouri and Kentucky
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

Brooks

Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

seicer

With that silly argument, you might as well avoid pretty much any bridge over the Mississippi and Ohio rivers within a 300 mile radius from New Madrid, Missouri. And stay away from any buildings.

index

Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Brooks

Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they've long since ruled out a retrofit.

index

Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they've long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Brooks

Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they've long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That's fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn't hold up to standards now.

ilpt4u

Bringing back an old thread...The Southern Illinoisan is reporting that Public "feedback"  (in lieu of the typical meetings) for the Replacement Ohio River Bridge is being sought

us51bridge.com is the project website

https://thesouthern.com/news/local/public-input-sought-for-new-u-s-51-ohio-river-cairo-bridge/article_29df6f88-967a-5897-86cc-79599febd6e3.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

rte66man

Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:49:12 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they've long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That's fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn't hold up to standards now.

The Memphis/Arkansas bridge opened in 1949. The DeSoto opened in the mid 1970's
When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

edwaleni

Quote from: rte66man on October 11, 2020, 05:48:27 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:49:12 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:33:35 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 07:21:19 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Brooks on May 12, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Quote from: index on May 12, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
Quote from: seicer on May 11, 2018, 08:22:36 PM
Yes, the alternative selection report from 2014 gives more background. Combined Alternate 2 was chosen.

It's a nice bridge but a nightmare for trucks with its 10 foot lanes and non-existent shoulders. It's also a nightmare for cyclists (of which I've encountered plenty down there) because of the steep grades on both approaches - who also have no room to move over into the shoulder. The crossing is also prone to catastrophic failure should an earthquake hit, which is more likely now more than ever.


It gets me thinking how screwed the area could be if an earthquake like the New Madrid ones of 1811-1812 hit. As much as it sucks in my opinion, replacement of the truss bridges has gotta happen.


The soil, to my knowledge, is very silty, which would not fare well in a quake, and the area in general would be ill-prepared for a big earthquake. Damage was felt as far away as Pennsylvania, imagine what that could do to places like Memphis.
This is very true and could not be more relevant now.  And people wonder why I avoid the I-55 bridge in Memphis like the plague.

Do you take the I-40 bridge? That one looks like it'd fare a lot worse in a quake, but I'm not an engineer so I wouldn't know for sure.
How do you figure that? The I-40 bridge has been retrofitted to withstand up to a 7.7 magnitude quake, IIRC. The 55 bridge was built in the 40s and they've long since ruled out a retrofit.


I never did say it definitely was, it was more of a quick judgement based on memory. I had thought the I-55 bridge was more similar to the Caruthersville Bridge and that the De Soto bridge was older.
That's fair. Neither of them look very new (by my standards, anyways). The Memphis-Arkansas (I-55) bridge was probably ahead of its time when it opened. It just doesn't hold up to standards now.

The Memphis/Arkansas bridge opened in 1949. The DeSoto opened in the mid 1970's

DeSoto opened August of 1973. It peaked in AADT in the early 2000's with 50k plus.

It's inspection rating got somewhat bad by 2013 before a refurb was done. It rates poorly now due to the curved steel beams over the roadway when you drive under the superstructure. You can see where they have been reinforced but after recent over height truck issues with bridges in Washington and Indiana causing the span to topple or weaken, they are taking a different view of these now than they did in 1973.

2trailertrucker

The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.

froggie

Quote from: 2trailertrucker on October 12, 2020, 01:50:25 PM
The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.

FTFY.

But the DeSoto Bridge rehab long predates the I-35W bridge collapse.  The main driving force behind rehabbing the DeSoto Bridge is the threat of an earthquake along the New Madrid Fault.  It's really more accurate to call it a seismic retrofit.

edwaleni

Quote from: froggie on October 13, 2020, 12:29:50 AM
Quote from: 2trailertrucker on October 12, 2020, 01:50:25 PM
The major reason for the bridges being rehabbed or replaced is, IMHO, the I-94 I-35W bridge collapse in Minnesota. Ever since then, bridges have become a priority.

FTFY.

But the DeSoto Bridge rehab long predates the I-35W bridge collapse.  The main driving force behind rehabbing the DeSoto Bridge is the threat of an earthquake along the New Madrid Fault.  It's really more accurate to call it a seismic retrofit.

This is what they don't like now on the DeSoto. The left and right sides are at risk of an overheight event.

There is one at each end and three where the sections join.


seicer

Seems to be a fracture critical issue, too.

rte66man

When you come to a fork in the road... TAKE IT.

                                                               -Yogi Berra

bugo

If an earthquake hits, will the Frisco and Harahan bridges be at as much risk as the I-55 bridge?

Western Electric Model 500


edwaleni

Quote from: bugo on October 14, 2020, 03:27:58 AM
If an earthquake hits, will the Frisco and Harahan bridges be at as much risk as the I-55 bridge?

Western Electric Model 500

As for the Frisco and Harahan, I would worry about its one shortcoming, that is the limestone block masonry used for the support piers.

The serious tremblor would attempt to liquidfy that masonry loose. It was made to support up/down pressures, not side to side.

Anything made with with steel reinforced piers may sway, but then it depends on how much energy gets pushed up into the superstructure, which would make it topple.

Most of the remediation around St Louis on modern highway bridges involved sway bars and springs. The bridge could sway, but enough pressure would be in place to keep it from toppling.

Fortunately, the Cairo Bridge piers are made with formed concrete, but a tremblor would most likely take the span down due to it being so top heavy.

ThatRandomOshawott


mvak36

Here's the website for the project: https://us51bridge.com/

According to the virtual public meeting presentation, they're shooting for construction around 2026-2027.
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ThatRandomOshawott

#24
It will be a sad day when those two old bridges at Cairo come down.
Nonetheless, with the threat of the fault looming, I can see the benefits of replacing them.



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