I did a quick search for this topic, but the only thing I found was from 2012, and I didn't want to necro-bump a dead thread. What are some concurrencies you've noticed that are not signed?
Back on January 31, I took a drive to Columbia Falls, Montana; while watching the video again and looking at a map on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Highway_40#/map/0), as well as Google Maps, I noticed that Montana Highway 40 is concurrent with US Route 2 between West First Avenue and Halfmoon Road (which changes to US Route 2 on the south side of the intersection). However, signage wise, Montana has that section signed only as US Route 2, so going by that, Montana is saying Montana Highway 40 only runs between the junction of US Route 93 and the junction of US Route 2, just outside the city boundary of Columbia Falls. Assuming Montana knows its roads well, which they should, the only thing I can think of is that Montana Highway 40 was shortened at some point to just be between those junctions, thereby eliminating the concurrency, and maps just haven't updated, perhaps because it wasn't that long ago.
Albeit much more minor, the only other one I've noticed is the Washington State Route 270 and Washington State Route 27 concurrency in Pullman, Washington, which I posted about as a question in another section. That one is not signed at all, though, with either number because, I'm guessing, it's extremely short (two blocks).
CA 1 more or less is one on US 101 from the vicinity of Oxnard through the bulk of Santa Barbara Channel to Gaviota Pass. The only place CA 1 pops up in between is on the Rincon Seawall which just happens to be pre-freeway US 101.
To a lesser extent CA 140 and CA 59 briefly have an unsigned multiplex of CA 99 in Merced. There are no reassurance shields for 140 or 59 along 99, but there is exit gantry signage where they depart the multiplex.
MA 1A from Dedham to Boston is unsigned along I-95 and I-93.
Is this where we mention all the US Highways out west that officially overlap Interstates but lack signage, or things like US 52 silently overlapping I-94 in Minnesota or US 41 semi-silently overlapping I-41 in Wisconsin?
It can be any unsigned concurrency that is only signed using the primary route instead of both.
Freakin' too many to count given the geographic holes in our membership on here.
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on November 11, 2022, 02:14:07 PM
MA 1A from Dedham to Boston is unsigned along I-95 and I-93.
Don't forget 3A joining 93 in Boston as well, for the I-93/US 1/MA 3/(unsigned) MA 1A/(unsigned) MA 3A mega concurrency.
3A also has a silent concurrency with MA 3/US 3 from Boston to Burlington. I also believe MA 7A has a silent concurrency with US 7 (and others) between its two singed stretches.
Oddly enough, with 1A having a silent concurrency with 1 south of Boston, it has a signed one thru Newburyport and Salisbury.
New Hampshire, to my knowledge, only has US 3 Business (used to be signed) in Laconia and US 302 Business (to my knowledge never signed) in Bartlett.
The Indianapolis beltway.
Almost every state highway in Alabama with its US highway counterpart (example AL-1 with US-431)
Quote from: cwf1701 on November 11, 2022, 08:19:22 PM
Almost every state highway in Alabama with its US highway counterpart (example AL-1 with US-431)
Same with Florida, where interstates and the Turnpike also have hidden state numbers in addition to the US highways. And all the interstates in Georgia with their silent 4xx designations.
For some odd reason here in Houston, even though interstate 10 and US 90 are concurrent from the 610 east loop to far west Katy, US 90 is unsigned for all of it. Going by signage alone, it would appear that US 90 ends at I-10 and then begins again at pin oak road, while US 90 alternate begins at I-610 and runs through town and then south of I-10 on its route to seguin.
MD 23 is unmarked on MD 165 through Jarrettsville, but the overlap is acknowledged internally.
Quote from: cwf1701 on November 11, 2022, 08:19:22 PM
Almost every state highway in Alabama with its US highway counterpart (example AL-1 with US-431)
Quote from: US 89 on November 12, 2022, 01:13:41 AM
Same with Florida, where interstates and the Turnpike also have hidden state numbers in addition to the US highways. And all the interstates in Georgia with their silent 4xx designations.
To me, there's a difference between a "hidden route" and an "unsigned concurrency".
Catt CR 12 is unsigned in its concurrency with US 219.
US-31 is unsigned on its concurrency with I-65 between Ardmore, TN and Athens, AL.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 01:03:25 PM
Quote from: US 89 on November 12, 2022, 01:13:41 AM
Same with Florida, where interstates and the Turnpike also have hidden state numbers in addition to the US highways. And all the interstates in Georgia with their silent 4xx designations.
To me, there's a difference between a "hidden route" and an "unsigned concurrency".
I would disagree with that only because a lot of "hidden routes" are actually portions of longer routes that are signed other places. Take SR 20 in Florida, for example. A lot of it is its own thing, independent and fully signed, but it is also the "hidden route" for US 27 between Tallahassee and High Springs, and it has a few more overlaps with other things where it isn't signed (US 441 from High Springs to Gainesville, SR 100 from Palatka to Bunnell).
As far as SR 20 goes, making a distinction between the US 90/SR 10 overlap in Tallahassee as an "unsigned concurrency" and the US 27 overlap across the panhandle as a "hidden route" seems pretty pointless as far as I'm concerned. Is it still "hidden route" material on the three-block overlap with US 27/SR 61 in downtown Tallahassee since 61 is signed there, or is it "unsigned concurrency" because 61 is clearly the through route there? A question (maybe without a real answer) that doesn't really need to be asked.
In that case, I would call them unsigned concurrencies. FL-20 is not a hidden route.
Might not count for this thread, but an oddity in North Carolina is that US-158 westbound concurrency with I-85 southbound is not posted until you are a few hundred feet from Exit 213 for US-158 West (where the BGS proudly proclaims that the exit is only 1/2 mile). That total concurrency is only 1.8 miles, but it is still long enough to deserve an extra reassurance sign after the left entrance ramp from US-158. A similar situation exists on the northbound side of I-85, but the US-158 concurrency is posted just before Exit 214 (NC-39/Downtown), which just a hair over a mile from the where US-158 eastbound exits the Interstate.
US 51/ I-55 from County Line Rd. past the stack. I've mentioned a few times on here that a lot of maps (inc. google) still show 51 on state street.
MS 16/ I-55
US 80/I-20 West of Clinton. I THINK there are a few signs in the Vicksburg area. The concurrency near Meridian is hit or miss with signage.
Colorado has so many.
CO 128 is unsigned along its concurrency with US 287 even though it is now the same road all the way through.
CO 7 is unsigned along US 36 between Boulder and Lyons.
CO 14 is semi-signed using "TO" along its concurrency with US 287.
CO 60 is semi-signed as "TO" along its concurrency with the I-25 frontage road).
CO 52 is unsigned between I-76 in Wiggins and US 34 in Fort Morgan.
CO 17 is unsigned along US 285 (and a few blocks of US 160) between Antonito and Alamosa.
And of course, there's our famous unsigned US route overlaps:
US 87 along I-25 from Raton, NM to the Wyoming border.
US 85 along I-25 from the Texas/New Mexico border to Fountain, then again in Colorado Springs to Castle Rock, then its final unsigned concurrency along I-25 and I-70 between Santa Fe Drive and Vasquez Boulevard.
US 6 along I-76 from Brush to US 85 and along I-70 and I-25 in Denver. Then there are many along I-70 westbound including between Floyd Hill and Loveland Pass, from Silverthorne to Minturn, from Gypsum to Glenwood Springs, then west Glenwood to Canyon Creek, then De Beque to Palisade, then west Grand Junction to Green River UT.
US 50 is unsigned along I-70 from Utah to Grand Junction.
US 40 is unsigned along I-70 from Empire to the US 6 Clear Creek exit then along US 6 to the frontage road. It's again unsigned along I-70 between the Evergreen/Bergen Park exit to Genessee.
US 40 and US 287 are unsigned along I-70 from East Colfax in Denver to Limon.
US 36 is unsigned along the entire length of I-270 and I-70 between I-270 and Byers.
US 24 is unsigned along I-70 between Limon and County Road 12 west of Seibert.
Quote from: SectorZ on November 11, 2022, 04:39:13 PM
Quote from: BlueOutback7 on November 11, 2022, 02:14:07 PM
MA 1A from Dedham to Boston is unsigned along I-95 and I-93.
Don't forget 3A joining 93 in Boston as well, for the I-93/US 1/MA 3/(unsigned) MA 1A/(unsigned) MA 3A mega concurrency.
3A also has a silent concurrency with MA 3/US 3 from Boston to Burlington. I also believe MA 7A has a silent concurrency with US 7 (and others) between its two singed stretches.
Oddly enough, with 1A having a silent concurrency with 1 south of Boston, it has a signed one thru Newburyport and Salisbury.
There's also MA 2A, which has unsigned concurrencies between its multiple standalone segments between Greenfield and Boston.
Utah has a handful, but less than it used to...
US 6 is unsigned along I-70 from Green River to the Colorado state line, except for one mention at the US 191 interchange.
US 50 is unsigned along I-70 from the Sevier/Emery county line east to Colorado (yes, for whatever reason the 70/50 overlap is only signed in Sevier County).
US 89 is unsigned along its overlap with SR 71 in Draper, where it shifts from I-15 over to State Street along 123rd South. There used to be a direct interchange, but it was removed in the early 2000s
US 89 is unsigned along I-15 from Bountiful to Farmington, except for one reassurance marker
US 191 is unsigned along I-70 from Crescent Junction to Green River
SR 30 is completely unsigned on its overlaps with I-84 and I-15 from Snowville to Riverside. It's also not signed on the US 89 overlap from Logan to Garden City, though at least some implied concurrency signage does exist in Logan
SR 48 is not signed on its one mile concurrency with SR 68 in West Jordan.
SR 118 isn't signed on its SR 120 overlap in Richfield. It's debatable whether this one is even real or if 118 is just discontinuous though, because signage is pretty poor at both junctions and there's nothing to suggest an implied concurrency at either end.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 07:40:39 PM
In that case, I would call them unsigned concurrencies. FL-20 is not a hidden route.
I'd agree. Routes that are never signed (whether its a state designation for federal routes or otherwise) are hidden. Routes that are signed in any capacity could have unsigned concurrencies or unsigned portions.
Quote from: jt4 on November 15, 2022, 05:37:56 PM
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 07:40:39 PM
In that case, I would call them unsigned concurrencies. FL-20 is not a hidden route.
I'd agree. Routes that are never signed (whether its a state designation for federal routes or otherwise) are hidden. Routes that are signed in any capacity could have unsigned concurrencies or unsigned portions.
I still think that's a distinction without a meaning. Take the main highways across the Florida panhandle, I-10 (hidden SR 8) and US 90 (hidden SR 10). Why should 8 be thought of any differently than 10, just because 10 has a short signed section all the way over in Jacksonville while 8 is never signed at all?
For a hidden route, nobody ever has any need to know that route number.
For an unsigned concurrency, someone following the route from one end to the other would find themselves in the gap.
For example, when my parents go on vacation to Estes Park (CO), they often stop by my childhood hometown of Atwood (KS) along the way. From there to Estes Park, they take US-36 the entire way. However, there is a gap in US-36 signage between Byers and Denver. Signing the concurrency would allow a person to actually follow a single route designation, rather than having to already know that I-70 is the same thing as US-36 for part of the journey.
In contrast, when I spent a couple of days in Tulsa for work one time, I apparently drove on unsigned I-444. But that didn't matter one bit, because I couldn't possibly have any need to follow signs for I-444: there are no signs anywhere for me to start following, and therefore no gap to exist.
US 50 is probably the only one of its kind to have an unsigned concurrency with two different 3di's: I-305 in Sacramento and I-595 east of Washington.
^^ Speaking of Sacramento, I'll add both CA-99 and CA-16 along US-50 and I-5. There are more "to CA-99" signs than there used to be, but I still don't think there are any reassurance markers.
Quote from: DTComposer on November 16, 2022, 06:58:42 PM
^^ Speaking of Sacramento, I'll add both CA-99 and CA-16 along US-50 and I-5. There are more "to CA-99" signs than there used to be, but I still don't think there are any reassurance markers.
I've never seen a reference to a continuation of CA 16 on I-5 or US 50.
US-52 with I-94 in Minnesota.
Do Tennessee's unsigned state routes concurrent with US routes constitute "hidden" routes?
Route markers generally reference only the US highway -- contractor errors such as TN 29 being signed with US 27 at a couple of realigned intersections in Oneida as an obvious exception -- but the mile markers show the state route number, not the US route number.
Minnesota also has US 12 in the Twin Cities area. Going west-to-east, you get a "12 follow I-394" sign when it enters the beltway metro area, and then you don't see it signed again until it switches to I-94 in Minneapolis, and then it's hidden again the rest of the way through the state until you see it again in Wisconsin at the St. Croix River Bridge. It's fully cosigned in WI until it departs for its own roadway again at Exit 4.
PA 272 follows US 222 between Willow Street and the split north of downtown Lancaster. I have yet to see a 222/272 sign in Lancaster.
According to some docs user NE2 posted a while back, PennDOT definitely provisions a SR 422 in counties like Perry and Mifflin that could suggest an invisible Ebensburg-Hershey US 422 silent behind US 22 and US 322.
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on November 16, 2022, 07:01:58 PM
Quote from: DTComposer on November 16, 2022, 06:58:42 PM
^^ Speaking of Sacramento, I'll add both CA-99 and CA-16 along US-50 and I-5. There are more "to CA-99" signs than there used to be, but I still don't think there are any reassurance markers.
I've never seen a reference to a continuation of CA 16 on I-5 or US 50.
Agree. Annoyingly, CA 16 isn't an unsigned concurrency; it's a split route. One of the legs, ideally, would be renumbered if there isn't any intentions to put up reassurance or TO shields on the overlap.
CA 16 - split route
CA 1, 99 - unsigned concurrencies
US 12, 52 - signed as unsigned concurrencies ("US 52 follow I-94")
ORH xx - hidden route (save where stand alone ORH highways were directly promoted to OR routes -- ie, OR 380, OR 429)
I-65 and US 31 are concurrent in Northern AL and for less than a mile in TN. There are no concurrent signs anywhere. That portion of I-65 was the former "newer" alignment of US 31 that was four-laned in the 50s.
Quote from: zzcarp on November 15, 2022, 01:53:57 AM
Colorado has so many.
CO 128 is unsigned along its concurrency with US 287 even though it is now the same road all the way through.
CO 7 is unsigned along US 36 between Boulder and Lyons.
CO 14 is semi-signed using "TO" along its concurrency with US 287.
CO 60 is semi-signed as "TO" along its concurrency with the I-25 frontage road).
CO 52 is unsigned between I-76 in Wiggins and US 34 in Fort Morgan.
CO 17 is unsigned along US 285 (and a few blocks of US 160) between Antonito and Alamosa.
And of course, there's our famous unsigned US route overlaps:
US 87 along I-25 from Raton, NM to the Wyoming border.
US 85 along I-25 from the Texas/New Mexico border to Fountain, then again in Colorado Springs to Castle Rock, then its final unsigned concurrency along I-25 and I-70 between Santa Fe Drive and Vasquez Boulevard.
US 6 along I-76 from Brush to US 85 and along I-70 and I-25 in Denver. Then there are many along I-70 westbound including between Floyd Hill and Loveland Pass, from Silverthorne to Minturn, from Gypsum to Glenwood Springs, then west Glenwood to Canyon Creek, then De Beque to Palisade, then west Grand Junction to Green River UT.
US 50 is unsigned along I-70 from Utah to Grand Junction.
US 40 is unsigned along I-70 from Empire to the US 6 Clear Creek exit then along US 6 to the frontage road. It's again unsigned along I-70 between the Evergreen/Bergen Park exit to Genessee.
US 40 and US 287 are unsigned along I-70 from East Colfax in Denver to Limon.
US 36 is unsigned along the entire length of I-270 and I-70 between I-270 and Byers.
US 24 is unsigned along I-70 between Limon and County Road 12 west of Seibert.
What about 287/14 up my way? Debates have came and went as to whether or not 14 exists at all on 287. If the signs that say 'to' 14 are correct, I think this would count. Alternately, if 14 actually DOES exist on 287, then... murkiness.
Quote from: kphoger on November 14, 2022, 07:40:39 PM
In that case, I would call them unsigned concurrencies. FL-20 is not a hidden route.
FL 20 is one of those cases where it just sort of gives up its identity until it's ready to be an "independent route" again. There's so many hidden SRs underneath US Routes, so they avoid pulling a Georgia and signing them together for like 90-100% of its distance.
The only one i can think of for Michigan is US-131/I-296 between I-196 and I-96. Of note, I-296 has not been signed in Michigan since the late 1970s.
There are basically no signed concurrencies in Arkansas.
Quote from: Amaury on November 11, 2022, 02:18:18 PM
It can be any unsigned concurrency that is only signed using the primary route instead of both.
Then nearly all routes that share roadway in California qualify. It doesn't officially sign concurrencies, and most aren't, but then some are. The aforementioned CA-1 concurrencies with US-101. But then you have ones like CA-168 and US-395 which are signed. So it's not very consistent.
wrong way concurrency for you all: KY 80/KY 914 west of Somerset, to be fair this concurrency is less than a mile long but 914 is the signed highway. if you're headed east on 80 the only indication that you've left mainline 80 are the business 80 shields, unless you turned to go west on 914, then you would see 80 east Somerset signs about a 1/2 mile from the 80/business 80/914 intersection.
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2022, 07:10:02 PM
For a hidden route, nobody ever has any need to know that route number.
For an unsigned concurrency, someone following the route from one end to the other would find themselves in the gap.
Examples in California: CASR-51 and I-305 are "secret" or "hidden" routes. They exist in law, but are never signed (except on PostMiles).
"Unsigned concurrencies" are the norm in California. What happens in law is that the route merges with another, ceases to exist for some distance, and then reappears at an exit. I-5 and CASR-33 as well as US-101 and CASR-1 do this at least a couple times each. In fact, I-80 eastbound and I-580 westbound are one of the few SIGNED concurrencies in the state.
Quote from: michravera on January 21, 2023, 02:48:09 AM
Quote from: kphoger on November 15, 2022, 07:10:02 PM
For a hidden route, nobody ever has any need to know that route number.
For an unsigned concurrency, someone following the route from one end to the other would find themselves in the gap.
Examples in California: CASR-51 and I-305 are "secret" or "hidden" routes. They exist in law, but are never signed (except on PostMiles).
"Unsigned concurrencies" are the norm in California. What happens in law is that the route merges with another, ceases to exist for some distance, and then reappears at an exit. I-5 and CASR-33 as well as US-101 and CASR-1 do this at least a couple times each. In fact, I-80 eastbound and I-580 westbound are one of the few SIGNED concurrencies in the state.
CA 33 actually has reassurance shields on I-5. A better example of the phenomenon you speak of is CA 59 and CA 140 not being signed with reassurance shields on CA 99 in Merced.
https://flic.kr/p/28nzsoo
https://flic.kr/p/29sX57V
Quote from: Amaury on November 11, 2022, 12:55:03 PM
I did a quick search for this topic, but the only thing I found was from 2012, and I didn't want to necro-bump a dead thread. What are some concurrencies you've noticed that are not signed?
Back on January 31, I took a drive to Columbia Falls, Montana; while watching the video again and looking at a map on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Highway_40#/map/0), as well as Google Maps, I noticed that Montana Highway 40 is concurrent with US Route 2 between West First Avenue and Halfmoon Road (which changes to US Route 2 on the south side of the intersection). However, signage wise, Montana has that section signed only as US Route 2, so going by that, Montana is saying Montana Highway 40 only runs between the junction of US Route 93 and the junction of US Route 2, just outside the city boundary of Columbia Falls. Assuming Montana knows its roads well, which they should, the only thing I can think of is that Montana Highway 40 was shortened at some point to just be between those junctions, thereby eliminating the concurrency, and maps just haven't updated, perhaps because it wasn't that long ago.
There's a good chance I made that particular map. I'll double check the road log when I get home today.